Brainstorm for Psionic Tricks, Tactics, and Combos Handbook

[Psyren]

Isn't leadership capped by ECL, though? So a psicrystal can have a cohort up to ECL-2, but since psicrystals are LA - this means no cohort allowed?

They may not have LA, but they have HD. So, just don't count the LA.

[Urpriest]

They may not have LA, but they have HD. So, just don't count the LA.

ECL doesn't work like that, though. If you have LA -, then you just flat-out don't have the ECL stat. And the ECL stat is what Leadership is based on, IIRC.

[Stegyre]

ECL doesn't work like that, though. If you have LA -, then you just flat-out don't have the ECL stat. And the ECL stat is what Leadership is based on, IIRC.

Not that I care (at all) for nested Leadership cheese, but I don't see the RAW support for this argument.

The only stated reason (of which I'm aware) for the "-" entry in a creature description is to designate those generally not suitable as PCs or cohorts. (Here, level adjustment, at the bottom.)

It's not even clear that the "level" referred to in the Leadership feat description should be ECL. Why should Pixies get an extra +4 boost to their leadership score, just because they have LA +4?

[Psyren]

ECL doesn't work like that, though. If you have LA -, then you just flat-out don't have the ECL stat. And the ECL stat is what Leadership is based on, IIRC.

Source?

We all know that "LA -" != "LA 0", but it's still a stretch from there to "LA - = no ECL"

If that were true, Truenaming wouldn't work on any monster not intended to be a PC race. (Not that it does anyway, but you get the thrust of my objection.)

[Urpriest]

Source?

We all know that "LA -" != "LA 0", but it's still a stretch from there to "LA - = no ECL"

If that were true, Truenaming wouldn't work on any monster not intended to be a PC race. (Not that it does anyway, but you get the thrust of my objection.)

Having looked around on this topic, it appears that Leadership is indeed based on character level, despite the fact that the cohort's level is calculated based on ECL. So you guys are right.

In terms of Truenaming, that's based on challenge rating, or hit dice for PCs, not ECL in either case.

[Stegyre]

Having looked around on this topic, it appears that Leadership is indeed based on character level, despite the fact that the cohort's level is calculated based on ECL. So you guys are right.

I salute your integrity.

(RAW can be a real -itch, and I don't think any of us know it all, except maybe Crumudgeon.)

[Psyren]

Perhaps the truenaming example was off-kilter, but I still take issue with "LA -" obliterating your ECL, whether or not Leadership is based off ECL.

[Claudius Maximus]

Pounce for 300 gp:

Psionic Lion's Charge grants the pounce ability. It has an instantaneous duration. Technically you only have to manifest it once. A character can just buy a tattoo of it for 300 gp. Obviously not RAI.

Triple the strength of some powers:

1. Be a Kalashtar.

2. Jam a bunch of Power Link Crystals into your spine.

3. That's it.

By some readings you can multiply by 7 instead if you use all of the uses in one go. This isn't a combo, but it's preposterously strong and thus might have a place in a psionics optimization guide.

[Urpriest]

Perhaps the truenaming example was off-kilter, but I still take issue with "LA -" obliterating your ECL, whether or not Leadership is based off ECL.

I can't think of any situation where it would be relevant now, actually. I can't think of any ECL-based calculation that isn't players-only.

[Draz74]

No guide of dirty-RAW psionic tricks is complete without +1 Manifesting [Ammunition of choice].

AKA "Woohoo, now I can buy extra Power Points for 72 gold each."

Also, as far as I can tell, just having the feats Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion lets you generate a few temporary PP an unlimited number of times per day.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Well, Draz, the thing about Azure Talent+Psycarnum Infusion is they are Bonus PP, not temporary PP. So it could be argued (and has, by me at least) that it is a recharge set up in and of itself. I prefer the other tricks because the RAW seems more solid for them (as "Bonus" PP are never really defined, except as those you get from a high manifesting stat, I suppose).

[classy one]

I'm sorry, but this really just doesn't work.

First, you cannot apply the same metamagic/metapsionic effect to the same casting/manifestation of a spell/power: they do not stack, and that includes psionics.

By RAW they do stack. Metamagic effects are NOT magical effects and no where in RAW says they do not stack. Transparency only applies effects not mechanics, psionics uses PP while magic uses slots, how do you propose to make that equal in transparency?

Second, it is debatable whether the Dominant Ideal benefit is -2 per metapsionic feat (as needed for this idea to work), rather than -2 for all augmentations collectively.

While it is true dominant mantle likely does only lower the total cost by -2, you might have missed the part where you need the feat metapower, which does lower each application. Maybe you should go and take a look at my post again?

The increase in PP and lose of focus are intended limits to multiple applications of metapsionics. With them gone, who is to say you can't get infinite ragne or duration? You will need to show me something that specifically says the same metapsionic/magic feat (not effect) will not stack. Or that metapsi/magc feats are effects rather than just a different way to cast/manifest a power/spell (RAW).

[Stegyre]

By RAW they do stack. Metamagic effects are NOT magical effects and no where in RAW says they do not stack. Transparency only applies effects not mechanics, psionics uses PP while magic uses slots, how do you propose to make that equal in transparency?.

By RAW:

Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell
A spellcaster can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative. You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell.

Admittedly, that's metamagics, not metapsionics, but the metapsionic feats tend to duplicate the metamagic feats.

I have also already given the general RAW rules for stacking effects -- and the default position is that the same effect from the same source does not stack.

So really, the burden is upon you to show, by RAW, where and why metapsionics are different in this regard.

[Urpriest]

@ classy:

One thought on this topic: if your argument were correct, why couldn't a character apply Power Attack multiple times to an attack to bypass the BAB limit? Or apply Leap Attack as many times as you want to get infinite damage?

Feats present ways you can alter your actions, giving you altered actions to choose. You can't then use the feats to alter these actions again.

[classy one]

Oh that's reassuring. I had to home rule that you could only apply the same feat twice since one of my players tried to pull that on me. Where in the DMG (ie page number) is that so I can show it to them?
The power attack example wasn't too good since it specifically states that you can only use it to -5 on attack rolls but I get it.

I'm looking at all these dirty tricks and trying to homebrew rules to counter them. I'm starting to feel my players have a better grasp at psionics than me... I just started using it this campaign and for the most part I find to be easier to keep track of compared to slots. Still these tricks are something I should look for from my more savvy players.

Also I don't get the Carmen santiogo trick. Just a way to retrieve things at really far distances?

[Psyren]

Also I don't get the Carmen santiogo trick. Just a way to retrieve things at really far distances?

It's not all that far a distance really (without epic or metapsionics) but you can do some nifty stuff - like steal the key to your cell that's hanging from the wall in the other room, or steal all the mercenaries' weapons before you attack their camp etc.

If it's the name you didn't understand, read here

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Also I don't get the Carmen santiogo trick. Just a way to retrieve things at really far distances?

Pretty much. Less really far distances (you still have to be within range of Retrieve, unless you manifest through Remote Viewing, which costs a lot of PP) and more without regard to the intervening space (and security measures). Though there has been discussion on BG that it may not work as written. You may need to manifest through Remote Viewing, which requires Manifester Level boosters to work (as it would cost 22PP if I remember correctly).

[Psyren]

Actually, I'm not so sure it would on second read. Sure you have to manifest the second power through RV, but the ML-PP limit is per power. not per round. The wording suggests the powers are manifested separately, even though they're done concurrently.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Actually, I'm not so sure it would on second read. Sure you have to manifest the second power through RV, but the ML-PP limit is per power. not per round. The wording suggests the powers are manifested separately, even though they're done concurrently.

Yes, but to manifest through Remote Viewing costs double the PP, and you cannot expend more PP than your ML on a single power (barring exceptions), so you would either have to be in Epic Levels or use ML boosters to be able to manifest Retrieve through Remote Viewing. Or have I misunderstood you?

[Psyren]

Yes, but to manifest through Remote Viewing costs double the PP, and you cannot expend more PP than your ML on a single power (barring exceptions), so you would either have to be in Epic Levels or use ML boosters to be able to manifest Retrieve through Remote Viewing. Or have I misunderstood you?

Ouch, I missed that line

But PP reduction should help - you apply effects in the most beneficial order, therefore a Torc/Earth Power etc. will reduce the PP cost before RV doubles it.

Hey, did you add my Feat Battery post to the OP yet?

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Ouch, I missed that line

But PP reduction should help - you apply effects in the most beneficial order, therefore a Torc/Earth Power etc. will reduce the PP cost before RV doubles it.

Hey, did you add my Feat Battery post to the OP yet?

I have updated the OP both here and at BG to include the Feat Battery trick.

[Claudius Maximus]

Oh wow. I didn't open the MoI spoiler so I thought it was already mentioned in there, but:

MoI Infinite Power Points Trick:

Take Body Fuel and Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest. Shape the vest. You can now gain two power points for free whenever you want. I don't think it's even an action. Superior to many other "infinite" PP loops because you can recover all of them in one round. Go nuts with stuff like the Mad Minute up there.

This relies on the interpretation that since ability burn is explicitly a "form of ability damage", Strongheart Vest can prevent it (it does not heal it, which is the only difference between ability damage and burn).

[Jack_Simth]

Oh wow. I didn't open the MoI spoiler so I thought it was already mentioned in there, but:

MoI Infinite Power Points Trick:

Take Body Fuel and Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest. Shape the vest. You can now gain two power points for free whenever you want. I don't think it's even an action. Superior to many other "infinite" PP loops because you can recover all of them in one round. Go nuts with stuff like the Mad Minute up there.

This relies on the interpretation that since ability burn is explicitly a "form of ability damage", Strongheart Vest can prevent it (it does not heal it, which is the only difference between ability damage and burn).

There's a potential problem with that:
Body Fuel specifies that you can do so by "taking" ability burn. Strongheart Vest reduce the amount of damage that you take. If you don't take the ability burn, you're not "taking" it, and so, no power points.

That's not a certain one, but it's something a DM can enforce while still being within the rules exactly as they're written.

[Radar]

There's a potential problem with that:
Body Fuel specifies that you can do so by "taking" ability burn. Strongheart Vest reduce the amount of damage that you take. If you don't take the ability burn, you're not "taking" it, and so, no power points.

That's not a certain one, but it's something a DM can enforce while still being within the rules exactly as they're written.

So the proper solution is the same as with Hellfire Warlock: bind Naberius. Unfortunately it heals only 1 point of ability damage per stat per round. It is still a neat trick.

[Psyren]

So the proper solution is the same as with Hellfire Warlock: bind Naberius. Unfortunately it heals only 1 point of ability damage per stat per round. It is still a neat trick.

Naberius won't work on Ability Burn - it cannot be magically healed, and all vestige abilities are supernatural unless specified otherwise.

[classy one]

Okay how about the psionic tattoo mastery with psychic reformation trick?

According the thread on tattoos in BG, you make a tattoo of psychic reformation, connect it to a capacitor, pay the cost of the tattoo and now you can swap all your powers and feats on a moment's notice.

According to the rules that govern tattoos, all PP and XP costs are prepaid by the crafter, so spamming psychic reformation from a tattoo would not result in lose of XP.
Sounds too good to be true but the guys in BG seem to think it is legit. Is it?

[Claudius Maximus]

Well if that works then that opens the door for any power with an xp component to be used over and over like that.

[Stegyre]

Sounds too good to be true but the guys in BG seem to think it is legit. Is it?

I can think of at least two problems:

First, Getting Wired is actually 3.0 material: notice the reference to psionic combat modes? That doesn't necessarily mean it's "out," but it does make it problematic. (IMO, psionic tattoo rules may still be used.)

Second, When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power. Thus, when you have a psionic tattoo of Psychic Reformation, you don't have a free manifestation of that power to use whenever, however, you wish. You have a manifestation of that power to do one particular thing. One suggestion I've heard bandied about is that you can use "sets" of Psychic Reformation tattoos to implement certain builds such as an "item creation build" that removes Power Attack and replaces it with Craft Wondrous Item, and a "combat build" that removes Craft Wondrous Item and replaces it with Power Attack.

That would appear to work by RAW. It also isn't nearly as exciting and not alarmingly broken. I'd probably allow it, myself.

EDIT: Darn me for not being a close enough reader:

Third, 3.5 rules that tattoos may only be made of 3rd level and lower powers. So Psychic Reformation (and other high-powered, XP-costing powers) are right out.

[classy one]

I can think of at least two problems:

First, Getting Wired is actually 3.0 material: notice the reference to psionic combat modes? That doesn't necessarily mean it's "out," but it does make it problematic. (IMO, psionic tattoo rules may still be used.)

Second, When you create a psionic tattoo, you make any choices that you would normally make when manifesting the power. Thus, when you have a psionic tattoo of Psychic Reformation, you don't have a free manifestation of that power to use whenever, however, you wish. You have a manifestation of that power to do one particular thing. One suggestion I've heard bandied about is that you can use "sets" of Psychic Reformation tattoos to implement certain builds such as an "item creation build" that removes Power Attack and replaces it with Craft Wondrous Item, and a "combat build" that removes Craft Wondrous Item and replaces it with Power Attack.

That would appear to work by RAW. It also isn't nearly as exciting and not alarmingly broken. I'd probably allow it, myself.

EDIT: Darn me for not being a close enough reader:

Third, 3.5 rules that tattoos may only be made of 3rd level and lower powers. So Psychic Reformation (and other high-powered, XP-costing powers) are right out.

Getting Wired was updated and then lost. Someone saved a copy and posted it in BG.

In Getting Wired there is a feat called tattoo mastery, that allows you make tattoos of level 4-9 as well as do things like heighten the power, add components like relays (link tats), cap (tats don't go away), mental tap (tap tats as a swift action and no AoO) and so on.
I think you should take a closer read at that article.

[classy one]

Here's the feat word-for-word:

Psionic Tattoo Mastery [Item Creation]

You can create more intricate and powerful psionic tattoos.

Prerequisite: Scribe Tattoo.

Benefit: You can create a psionic tattoo of any appropriate psionic power up to 9th level. The amount of time required to create a psionic tattoo is one day per 1,000 gp of base cost of the tattoo. Tattoos of powers higher than 3rd level are larger and more intricate; these tattoos count as more than one tattoo (see Table 1-1: Psionic Tattoos; note that the normal limit you can have is seventeen tattoos). You can create metapsionic-enhanced tattoos. You must have the metapsionic feat on your list of feats. The metapsionic level increases by 1 for every 2 points a metapsionic feat increases the power's cost. The number of slots used by the metapsionic-enhanced tattoo is based on its metapsionic level. The tattoo's metapsionic level is used for calculating its base cost. Metapsionic-enhanced tattoos are limited by the creator's metapsionic cap.