Most Realistic System?

[SynissterSyster]

Hello fellow gamers. I have a question for you all. As the title says I am wondering what current or past rpg system is the most realistic? The gaming group I am in has two members who want to make their own rpg and seek to make it realistic. I have a bad feeling about it as they may be aiming for a goal they can't reach.

As of now they have been trying to modify the nWoD material to bring about more realistic combat. So far they have added in blunt, slashing, and piercing damage to the armor system. I came here as, I believe, Giant has the most creative people and you all will give honest answers.

Thanks in Advance

[subject42]

GURPS probably has the most thorough system, but realism is, oddly enough, a very subjective term.

General rule of thumb: If GURPS does it, look at it hard and think about including it. If RIFTS does it, don't do that unless you really can't think of any better way to do it.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Define "realistic."

Seriously. If you want a "realistic" game you're going to have to point out what the system needs to be able to do. Does it need to do combat "realistically?" Model social interactions "realistically?" Simulate crafting "realistically?"

Still, if you want a "realistic" system, I'd start with SR3 instead of any WoD. It, at least, had a wound recovery system that modeled permanent injury.

[Morty]

From what I've heard, Riddle of Steel is incredibly detailed and realistic when it comes to melee combat.

[Kelb_Panthera]

actually, e6 with no magic and the class-based ac variant is fairly realistic.

[SynissterSyster]

The pair want a realistic combat system. One that takes into account layers of armor, that kevlar is not bulletproof, ect. Where a guy in full plate with a sword is a bad butt in the real world current time. I have heard GURPS, Shadowrun, and even Champions. I am thinking of a system where you can die from a single bullet to your leg, like in Cyberpunk 2020.

This came about as we are using the nWoD system to play a zombie apocalypse game. It is set in our hometown and things got out of hand. Since the DM is new the older players, whom know the town, managed to acquire a .50 calibur gun to use. He managed to take everything away and make it even but the two players are looking for a more realistic combat system.

[Totally Guy]

I'd start with SR3 instead of any WoD.

Shadowrun 3rd edition?

I'm playing in one of those at the moment but I struggle with the believability of lots of things that happen on a fairly regular basis.

[Seerow]

Shadowrun 3rd edition?

I'm playing in one of those at the moment but I struggle with the believability of lots of things that happen on a fairly regular basis.

ah SR3, the founder of my group's meme about dodging in place.

Hardly the most realistic system, though it is moreso than D&D by a fair margin.

[DukeofDellot]

FATAL, definitely FATAL, "The Dice do not lie."

...

I usually use GURPS for my "realistic" games, as it produces reasonably believable outcomes with relatively simple procedure... beyond character creation... I've had my players build some retarded characters and there's little stopping that.

[GoatBoy]

FATAL, definitely FATAL, "The Dice do not lie."

Came in here to say this.

So, the next time someone complains that your interpretation of the rules isn't "realistic," ask them if they want to play the most realistic, detailed system ever devised.

Then roll. ROLL for anal circumference!

[SynissterSyster]

Came in here to say this.

So, the next time someone complains that your interpretation of the rules isn't "realistic," ask them if they want to play the most realistic, detailed system ever devised.

Then roll. ROLL for anal circumference!

I dunno if I want them to break their minds...though it may improve the personality of one of them. Anywho..

[big teej]

Then roll. ROLL for anal circumference!

seriously?

the system accounts for these things!?


WHY WOULD IT MATTER?!!?!?!

oh gods!!!

BRAIN BLEACH BRAIN BLEACH BRAIN BLEACH!!!!

[Amphetryon]

Aside from Riddle of Steel for combat (+1), look at how Mouse Guard models interactions.

[Spiryt]

seriously?

the system accounts for these things!?


WHY WOULD IT MATTER?!!?!?!

oh gods!!!

BRAIN BLEACH BRAIN BLEACH BRAIN BLEACH!!!!

Yeah, seriously, circumference has completely nothing to do, while all that matters is size and tension of surrounding muscles is all that matt...

* police breaks into the house, connection shuts down *

[The Big Dice]

If you want realistic combat, it's got to be GURPS. The only system to have rules for a poke in the eye, punch in the nose and breaking fingers that I can think of.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Shadowrun 3rd edition?

I'm playing in one of those at the moment but I struggle with the believability of lots of things that happen on a fairly regular basis.

Such as?

IMHO, no other system has handled combat as "realistically" as SR3. Among other things, it gives you:
- Different resolution mechanics for melee and ranged attacks
- Dynamic armor systems
- "Gritty" wound and healing rules
- Intricate modeling of various forms of firearms
- Highly lethal combat

WoD has a simplified wound system and does little to model the differences between using different sorts of weapons. Nor does the system itself give you a "simulationist" view of the world - most of what happens is solely at the ST's discretion.

[Gavinfoxx]

Gurps if you want to MODEL actions and physics and stuff... but sometimes the results are wonky...

Riddle of Steel if you want to actually do how martial arts melee fights where people are trying to kill each other with swords and hand to hand weapons actually play out.

FYI, in case it wasn't obvious, the FATAL stuff was a joke, it is widely considered the worst role playing system in the history of role playing games. The creators were probably certifiable...

[SynissterSyster]

I am getting some great answers here. So I pose this question to you all. Does it matter how realistic a game system is? Does it matter if there is a rule to see how to hit someone in the eye with a paper clip fired from a thin rubber band? I, myself, would rather have a system where combat is realatively quick to resolve and I don't have to worry about JimBob there wanting to fire his 30.06 rifle using NATO rounds (I know that make no sense but the group I game with think they know it all for guns and melee. They do Amtgard as well as Airsoft.)

[Callista]

If you really want realistic, then the most realistic system is free-form role-playing; it can be as realistic or as fantastic as you want. But if that's not your thing, then you should probably try going for a system with very minimal rules, which would allow you to do most things via flavor text and a small set of very basic rules.

I am getting some great answers here. So I pose this question to you all. Does it matter how realistic a game system is? Does it matter if there is a rule to see how to hit someone in the eye with a paper clip fired from a thin rubber band? I, myself, would rather have a system where combat is realatively quick to resolve and I don't have to worry about JimBob there wanting to fire his 30.06 rifle using NATO rounds (I know that make no sense but the group I game with think they know it all for guns and melee. They do Amtgard as well as Airsoft.)

In my experience, a very detailed set of rules actually makes a system less realistic. Whether that's a good thing depends mostly on whether you want a realistic world or not. After all, throwing a Meteor Swarm at someone is not realistic at all, but it sure is cool.

[SynissterSyster]

Callista: That is what I am worried about with these guys. I see them making this complex rules set that bog a game to a very slow crawl and then they will complain when combat takes 7 hours to get through a turn. Free form, via AOL, was fun and simple to do but these guys are "old school" gamers who think THAC0 was better then 3.x.

As for the FATAL idea. Yeah it is a joke but if I suggest it to them and see if they run with it then it will be either silly or worse then what they are trying to do now.

Again thanks all!!

[Oracle_Hunter]

I am getting some great answers here. So I pose this question to you all. Does it matter how realistic a game system is? Does it matter if there is a rule to see how to hit someone in the eye with a paper clip fired from a thin rubber band? I, myself, would rather have a system where combat is realatively quick to resolve and I don't have to worry about JimBob there wanting to fire his 30.06 rifle using NATO rounds (I know that make no sense but the group I game with think they know it all for guns and melee. They do Amtgard as well as Airsoft.)

IMHO, trying to make a "realistic" system is a Fool's Errand at best and FATAL at worst.

Nobody wants to play a "life simulator" RPG; people want to play fictional characters in stories. When designing a system, it is far better to pick what kind of stories you want it to tell and then figure out how to make a system which makes telling those sorts of stories a game.

In case you are interested in name-dropping, this is known as the Purpositivist Design Paradigm ("PDP") school of game design. AFAIK I'm the only one who calls it that but hey - someone needs to found these schools

EDIT: It sounds like these guys would like some classic Shadowrun ("SR") - third edition or earlier. Or possibly GURPS though I've always said GURPS is a toolbox for making a system rather than a system itself.

[The Big Dice]

Nobody wants to play a "life simulator" RPG; people want to play fictional characters in stories. When designing a system, it is far better to pick what kind of stories you want it to tell and then figure out how to make a system which makes telling those sorts of stories a game.

Nobody wants to play a character in a story. Stories are boring and take control away from the players. Stories are railroads under a different name, sold in great numbers because people think that a McRib is a better option than a Big Mac.

People want to play characters in situations. Which is a completely different paradigm.

It sounds like these guys would like some classic Shadowrun ("SR") - third edition or earlier. Or possibly GURPS though I've always said GURPS is a toolbox for making a system rather than a system itself.

GURPS is a system in need of a setting. And it does Orcs 'n Elves 'n Cyberpunk better than Shadowrun imo

[AstralFire]

I've heard Harnmaster is extremely realistic.

www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9828297

[Grelna the Blue]

Haven't played it in years, but maybe Rolemaster, aka Rollmaster. Takes forever to create a character, and you can lose a character in combat to permanent death with incredible ease. It can be fun with a good GM, but aren't they all?

[Kuma Da]

A realistic system, you say?

Go perfectly diceless. Have no rules, other than 'does this make narrative sense'.

That's as close as you can get to perfect realism in gaming.

[Knaight]

Nobody wants to play a character in a story. Stories are boring and take control away from the players. Stories are railroads under a different name, sold in great numbers because people think that a McRib is a better option than a Big Mac.

People want to play characters in situations. Which is a completely different paradigm.

No, its uncommon for people to want to play a character in a completed story. An emerging story is a perfectly good idea, and how the story emerges depends partly on system--granted, players and GM are far more significant--hence PDP.

I've heard Cyberpunk 2020 is realistic, that seems extremely questionable. However, Burning Wheel is an extremely realistic system in many respects that tries to pass for narrativist, while remaining simple enough to actually play.

[golentan]

For combat realism I'd plug traveller. Simple, to the point, brutal and detailed. Mongoose edition pocketbook's cheap to pick up and easy to read.

My favorite system for modern/sci fi, and if you take out tech 5+ equipment it does historical as well. If using psionics, fantasy too!

[The Big Dice]

I've heard Cyberpunk 2020 is realistic, that seems extremely questionable. However, Burning Wheel is an extremely realistic system in many respects that tries to pass for narrativist, while remaining simple enough to actually play.

Cyberpunk has HUGE holes in it. Like how do you defend yourself against a melee attack and how do you throw a grenade.

One test for gaming realism is a game of cricket. Or baseball, or some other sport that involves teams that have to throw aball, hit it, catch it and throw it back accurately.

GURPS can do it, but not many other games can.

[aaron_the_cow]

I'd say champions, aka the hero system. Its the most realistic system I've played, and is flexible and realistic to the point of being semi-unplayable.

[tbarrie]

If you really want realistic, then the most realistic system is free-form role-playing; it can be as realistic or as fantastic as you want. [...]In my experience, a very detailed set of rules actually makes a system less realistic.

That was my initial reaction too, but upon further thought I'm not sure it's true. Even detailed RPG systems are still RPG systems, which means they're almost always written with the assumption that the GM is going to override the rules if they give nonsensical results. And a well-designed set of detailed rules is a useful guide for situations where the GM honestly isn't sure what would realistically happen.

Detailed rules are only a problem if you're gaming with the sort of person who honestly thinks drowning can heal you in third edition D&D, and that this is a knock against the system's realism. And I'm unconvinced such people exist other than on internet forums.