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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Magicyop's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEnar View Post
    PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.
    Oh, no, I agree with that, I didn't think he intended to post it here. If he did, then yes, I'd prefer if he posted it somewhere else.

    EDIT: Ah, yes, it seems like he did. He did say 'post it right here'. Anyway, like I said, I'd like to leave this behind us, so that we can talk reasonably about a real compromise. Just cool your heels on the argument for a while and try to return to business as usual, and if after some time, it still seems a conglomeration must be reached, we can talk respectfully about it.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-07 at 09:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    ... Conglomeration?

    I love all you tentacled freaks, by the way. Thanks for at least trying to run this for us.

    Ankheg is changing at a really quick speed.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    ...I guess... I just don't see how that works in fluff terms.
    Well, picture this. You're fighting a beastie with some kind of natural armor which can't be pounded through. Your arm flies out, transforming into a spearlike horn. You pierce the skin of the beastie, then the tip of the horn morphs into a stony fist just in time to smash the innards of the beastie to jam.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkman View Post
    I Love this class. Very nice, I will be looking forward to playing this class.
    Ooh, excellent. I don't see a problem with any of your suggestions, thank you for giving them. Will implement momentarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEnar View Post
    Hmm, but wouldn't that be kinda of a rules nightmare and bog down the game as your character is reacthing to everything? Well ok trying to play at level 29 would be pretty rule-heavy already, but still, I think it shouldn't be able to transform more than once per round for simplicity's sake. Maybe allow multiple changes with each
    Maybe not infinite number... but more than one. A couple. Maybe an amount equal to one of your modifiers.
    Betropper:I agree with you. This thread seems to be working pretty well by itself. Who really cares how many threads there are or who's running them as long as more cool monster classes are being done?
    Yup!


    Will edit Animated Object and comment on Ankheg momentarily.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-07 at 10:06 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kajhera View Post
    ... Conglomeration?
    I love all you tentacled freaks, by the way. Thanks for at least trying to run this for us.
    Well, I believe this thread will still keep going. PM negotiations seem to have failed, and Gorgon closed the other thread, preventing people from working there. So the homebrewing must go on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kajhera View Post
    ... Conglomeration?
    Ankheg is changing at a really quick speed.
    And I like where it's going.

    But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

    Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?
    Last edited by DarkEnar; 2010-12-07 at 09:53 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEnar View Post
    And I like where it's going.

    But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

    Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?
    This is a brilliant idea. I love it. Eventually be able to dig right through magic, pierce a prismatic sphere without harm, bust through a wall of force... the ultimate burrower. Really fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEnar View Post
    Well, I believe this thread will still keep going. PM negotiations have failed, and Gorgon closed the other thread, preventing people from working there. So the homebrewing must go on!



    And I like where it's going.

    But still lacking something... Perhaps growth progression? Huge at 10th, garganguan at 20th or something like that? A large ankheg is scary at 3rd level, not so much at higher levels.

    Or perhaps burrowing progression? Become able to dig trough solid stone, metal, lava, perhaps even force effects as it gains HD?
    I like burrowing progression, and was thinking about implementing some sort. It's what kind of sort that gave me pause. Solid stone and walls, aye...

    And maybe they should be able to get to Huge ... Is there precedent for growth progression outside the monster class? Player can't really opt out, and being bigger than large isn't always practical. (See: Dungeonbred creature)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

    You called this project "a farce", you explained in no uncertain terms what I had to do to "prove I was sorry to you", (being apologetic and being regretful are two separate things) and you compared the thread split to the civil war. In my opinion, at all times, you've been nothing but childish. You show me one single PM I got from you that was polite and reasonable, and I'll apologize for bringing it up.

    Let me be clear-- I want nothing more than for this little squabble to go away. We had the perfectly reasonable right to start our own thread, and verified with several people that we could. Right now, Gorgon, it seems like you just want the fight to rage louder and angrier. Can't we all calm down a little? Do you think a compromise can be reached with everyone upset?
    I tried to reach a compromise. I was livid, so I was bombastic in my discourse and I exaggerated a lot, and yes, I came off as very angry. Guess what? I was very angry. And the civil war reference was a joke, anyways, in case you didn't get it.
    Now, I don't think I'm being impolite. I don't think you are, either. But it seems you're holding me to a different standard than yourself: there is nothing polite about insinuating that I am "childish", "petty", and solely fueling this because I "want the fight to rage louder and angrier". Also, you've taken my arguments out of context. I'm not claiming to hold the calm and rational high ground here, but in that case, you shouldn't either.
    Pretending I don't exist and ignoring my PMs isn't going to make me go away. You're saying you want to work something out. I've been saying for the longest time that I want to work something out. So let's work something out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    This is a brilliant idea. I love it. Eventually be able to dig right through magic, pierce a prismatic sphere without harm, bust through a wall of force... the ultimate burrower. Really fun.
    I don't know that Ankheg should get it, is the thing. They're excellent ant lions with skills relating to attacking people on the surface; but you might find a better monster to hold the title of 'ultimate burrower'.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    I tried to reach a compromise. I was livid, so I was bombastic in my discourse and I exaggerated a lot, and yes, I came off as very angry. Guess what? I was very angry. And the civil war reference was a joke, anyways, in case you didn't get it.
    Now, I don't think I'm being impolite. I don't think you are, either. But it seems you're holding me to a different standard than yourself: there is nothing polite about insinuating that I am "childish", "petty", and solely fueling this because I "want the fight to rage louder and angrier". Also, you've taken my arguments out of context. I'm not claiming to hold the calm and rational high ground here, but in that case, you shouldn't either.
    Pretending I don't exist and ignoring my PMs isn't going to make me go away. You're saying you want to work something out. I've been saying for the longest time that I want to work something out. So let's work something out.
    Sure, I may have been rude to you. We're all stressed out. And it is for this reason I've proposed we let it lie until all of us, all of us, are calm and ready to reach a rational discussion. Our creation of this thread should not impair your ability to continue your thread. Neither should you wish to force us to cease right now. If you fervently believe that we have to reach a solution which ends with only one project, surely you'd be willing to wait until tempers are low, and we can do it reasonably?
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-07 at 10:04 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorgondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.
    Last edited by Zeofar; 2010-12-07 at 10:17 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kajhera View Post
    ... I'd rather make monsters than talk politics, so I'm going to throw up an Ankheg class to go back to monsters.

    Ankheg (Awakened)



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    Hit Dice: d12
    {table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features
    1|+0|+2|+0|+0|Insectoid Body, Tremorsense, Tunneling, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
    2|+1|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Ant Lion Attack, Improved Grab, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
    3|+2|+3|+1|+1|Spit Acid, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]

    Skills: 2+Int (x4 at first level); Climb, Intimidate, Listen, Search, Spot, Survival

    Proficiencies: An ankheg is proficient with its own natural weapons.

    Insectoid Body: An ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 10'/3 HD. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60'. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier. It cannot use weapons or shields. Seems reasonable to me.

    Tremorsense: An ankheg gains tremorsense 10'/HD. Cool, useful.

    Tunneling: An ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. This tunnel is 5' tall and wide. Cool! I like it. Like we discussed before, I think you should add options for burrowing through stone and similar materials, even if you don't want to go with 'ultimate burrower'.

    Lunge: An ankheg that attacks in a round that they burrow at least 5' may be treated as charging, including the +2 to attack and -2 to AC. If it attacks a creature above ground immediately after emerging from the ground, the creature attacked is flat-footed for that attack. Fun! I can just imagine bursting from the surface of the ground to ambush a foe.

    Ant Lion Attack: If it has already burrowed in the round, an ankheg that attacks and successfully grapples a creature may burrow another 5'/3 HD as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Enhances its biggest trick in an interesting way? That's good! One thing you might want to add is, does the creature come with the Ankheg? Are you essentially pulling them into the earth?

    Improved Grab: An ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. Makes its charge ability synthesize with its grapple ability? That's good. Good ability.

    Spit Acid: 30' line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves. Can the range scale with HD?

    Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature. I like being able to become a huge Ankheg at some point. See the giants for a good way to grow by HD.


    Comments:
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    Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.
    Looks good overall (see my comments in the quote), but doesn't the original Ankheg have some way to secrete acid from its skin? That would be a cool ability to see on this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeofar View Post
    Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorgondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.
    This may well work-- it's a good, and a democratic suggestion. But I still maintain that we all chill and take some time before we discuss it. Let's just avoid the topic of the split for a while and let everything settle. Then we can try to discuss some compromise, if one is necessary.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-07 at 10:19 PM.
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    Couple of things I noticed.

    Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.

    It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-12-07 at 10:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Tomorrow,I'll comment on the Thorn and The grell but for now i would like to nominate the bleakborn and Solamith,There both well built classes and there's nothing (i can see) that wrong with them.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Couple of things I noticed.

    Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.
    No, that's definitely for certain. No one can vouch for classes created before this thread was made. Anyone who wants to is welcome to take any such class and revise it to fix balance, spelling, flavor, or anything, really. If the creator is still on the forums, it may be best to check with them, first, though. But you're absolutely right.
    It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.
    What it's saying is that if you give a monster class full casting, its other class features should be weaker than the class features of a monster without full casting.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkman View Post
    Tomorrow,I'll comment on the Thorn and The grell but for now i would like to nominate the bleakborn and Solamith,There both well built classes and there's nothing (i can see) that wrong with them.
    Sounds like a good idea. Nomination added.
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    Instituted most changes. How should the range scale with HD, would you suggest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kajhera View Post
    Instituted most changes. How should the range scale with HD, would you suggest?
    5 ft. per HD? Or if you think that's too much, 5 ft. per 2 HD?
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    One other thing. I want to finish Illurien first, but after that I'm redoing the silver dragon. I looked at it today and the class just feels bland to me. I'm playing one and I don't look forward to any of the following abilities.

    Silver flier
    Purify
    patience
    Silver feat
    quick learner
    cleanse.

    That's the majority of the unique abilities the Silver dragon gets. Quick learner mimics an ability most DMs would ban, purify and cleanse are only useful in a specific type of build, silver flier seems situational at best, and silver feat is a bonus feat. Patience could be useful, but it just doesn't look all that appealing.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-12-07 at 11:05 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Couple of things I noticed.

    Several classes don't follow the rules put forth in the first post. At least a few classes get energy immunities at their first level (I'm thinking mostly dragons here) but it says they shouldn't come before level 5.
    Any of the classes that get an immunity at 1st level get a weakness to go hand in hand with it- it's not an "immunity", as in an ability that grants an immunity, but the subtype. That's A-OK.

    It also says "Full casters should be weaker than your average monster class" which is wrong. The Classes should be third tier, not above first. May have just missed what you meant.
    That... certainly needs rewording. They should gain abilities other than their fullcasting significantly less than other monster classes.
    Actually, I'm considering just doing away with fullcasting entirely and making sure that, at the very least, a caster will be stunted in their casting- for example, fullcasting as a cleric would be okay so long as you didn't get any domains, or fullcasting as a sorcerer would be okay so long as you could only choose spells from these three schools, or fullcasting as a wizard would be okay if you have a severely limited spell selection, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeofar View Post
    Here's an astounding suggestion: use the new nomination format in the old thread since that is the only concrete difference between the new one and the old one (the only other actual difference that I can find is an admonition to respect your fellow homebrewers). Anything else just seems like the deliberate exclusion of Gorgondantess and anything less doesn't seem like it will ease the splitters' concerns. If things get oppressive or rude or whatever was the issue because of something Gorondantess does by the time Thread IV is done, then it is clear that things simply won't work out with Gorgie "in charge" and everyone can continue on to thread V without any weird break form.
    No. I don't like the new nomination format.
    Why? Because if we were using that, we'd have the living spell on the list with none of the vague spells defined. There needs to be a better system than what's up there in terms of quality control.
    But... I'll let it lie. For now. Part of the reason I've been mad is that you, Magicyop, didn't even tell me that you were going to let me, ah, "chill out"- you just started ignoring me. However, now that I know this, I can sit by a few days so long as I'm kept aware on what's going on. So, I'll tell you what: I make myself scarce and finish up the Pseudonatural Creature, make it nice and epic and lovely. I might pop in for the occasional critique, but that's it. Once I need somewhere to post the PC, we figure something out. Sound good?

    One other thing. I want to finish Illurien first, but after that I'm redoing the silver dragon. I looked at it today and the class just feels bland to me. I'm playing one and I don't look forward to any of the following abilities.

    Silver flier
    Purify
    patience
    Silver feat
    quick learner
    cleanse.

    That's the majority of the unique abilities the Silver dragon gets. Quick learner mimics an ability most DMs would ban, purify and cleanse are only useful in a specific type of build, silver flier seems situational at best, and silver feat is a bonus feat. Patience could be useful, but it just doesn't look all that appealing.
    Good. I wholeheartedly agree: the dragons need a major overhaul.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-07 at 11:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Any of the classes that get an immunity at 1st level get a weakness to go hand in hand with it- it's not an "immunity", as in an ability that grants an immunity, but the subtype. That's A-OK.
    Okay, just wanted to clear things up.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-12-07 at 11:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    5 ft. per HD? Or if you think that's too much, 5 ft. per 2 HD?
    5' per HD sounds reasonable.

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    I'ma chargin ma critique!

    Phrenic Creature: I realise that since he's in England Niezck's probably been sleeping since I last commented, but I have some more points to append to my last bit of commentary. Said commentary is found here for ease of reference.

    My main reason for additional commentary is that I went and crunched some numbers, using the first character concept to pop into my head:
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    Sample Build: Jim the Phrenadin (Human Paragon 1 / Paladin 4 / Paragon 2 / Phrenic 1)

    Jim can make the skill requirements, or maybe he just fell into one of those Mind-Flayer hive brains and survived. Though the build details, while fun and amusing for myself are largely irrelevant. He'll gain 8 PSAs of 1st or 2nd level when he takes the template. So, I'll pick a random 8 here, and remember that PSA are considered to be fully augmented in terms of their effects.

    {table=head]Power Name|Level|Uses/Day|Effective PP per use|Total Daily Effective PP
    Biofeedback|PsyWar 1|8|7|56
    Emp Trans|PsyWar 2|4|8|32
    Precog, Offense|PsyWar 2|8|7|56
    Hustle|PsyWar 2|4|3|12
    Body Adjust|Psy War 2|4|7|28
    Energy Missile|Kinetic 2|4|8|32
    Vigor|PsyWar 1|8|8|64
    Mind Thrust|Psion 1|8|8|64[/table]
    Since there's no noted restriction aside from levels, I picked a couple to demonstrate. In the end Jim has 344 effective power-points per day. His BAB and HP are close to a Psychic Warrior, along with his power selection, but the Psychic Warrior has 19pp +Bonus from Wis per day, while maintaining an equal number of options. The Psion has access to just over twice, 17, the amount of powers but still only has 58pp +Int. The Psion does catch up in power points by 20th but's that's assuming the Phrenic doesn't get more SLAs with more HD.

    If the Phrenic gets more powers with HD, it's like getting an entire classes abilities at the cost of one level. I don't think the class should cut down on uses per day, though, those are probably just about right. I think, instead, it should be limited in some way by how many PSA it has. My initial thought is a number equal to it's base Charisma Modifier (aka, without equipment/magic bonuses etc...).

    On the upside I really enjoyed the character concept I did for testing, though really the first 7 levels could be anything without changing the outcome. I was just banking on the Cha synergy for kicks.


    Wendigo: Lot's of people seemed to like this one, I'll take a look...

    Between Maddening Whispers and Stalking Paranoia I really like the flavour of the monster. My other initial impressive is that it's very dense, there are a lot of abilities packed in there for just two levels of investment and provide (I think) a lot more of a benefit then other classes I can think of, especially considering that it scales.

    Maddening whispers can technically effect mindless creatures, but honestly don't see how that could work. Also, would already insane creatures (such as the allip) be immune? I'm not so sure about regeneration either, but fire is a fairly common element, but I don't know...

    Not really any problem with the rest of the abilities themselves, I just think the class gets too much. The small little bonuses like +1 deflection AC and +1 dex I don't think are necessary when put alongside everything else it gets. Unless there's a rule against, maybe spread things out just slightly by adding a third level?

    Also, so you become a Wendigo when you hit 0. So, now that you're a Wendigo, do you get that wisdom back?

    Swarmshifter: Aand I've got nothing, so I'll endorse the monster and leave the rest to the more experienced.

    Animated Object: Nothing about the object abilities jumps out at me for being broken, so since I've no problems with it I'll do the same as above and endorse the monster and leave catching anything I'm unaware of to the more experienced.

    Death Knight: While I think the text could use a bit of cleaning up, the mechanics seem fine to me. Endorsed

    And, I think five is enough for me for tonight. Since there have been no more suggestions for the Thorn, I'll leave it awaiting endorsement or critique for now.

    Instead I will claim the Marrash (MM2) and shall produce that when I think it's ready.
    Homebrew Monster Classes:
    Arcadian Avenger|Thorn|Marrash|Justice Archon

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    I thank you kindly for the endorsement on the solamith, monkman. Also, having read the wendigo and seeing nothing outstandingly wrong with it, I'll go ahead and give it an endorsement of my own.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEnar View Post
    PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.
    Right, I know it may seem exclusive, but can we please keep the politics to PM and the homebrewing to the thread? I'd hate to see the projects both be closed for this sort of discussion. Also, anyone who has problems with the new thread, include me in your PM list, I helped create this just as much as Magicyop did.

    Edit: Actually, I invite anyone to PM me with questions, concerns, or agitations with this perceived split. I will gladly, and calmly, offer my reasons for being a part of it, and answer any inquires presented about it. Thank you for your time.

    Half-golems should be up end of the...next...week.
    Last edited by AugustNights; 2010-12-08 at 08:50 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    Right, I know it may seem exclusive, but can we please keep the politics to PM and the homebrewing to the thread? I'd hate to see the projects both be closed for this sort of discussion. Also, anyone who has problems with the new thread, include me in your PM list, I helped create this just as much as Magicyop did.

    Half-golems should be up end of the...next...week.
    Plus, Chump is really awesome and wise. Which is a reason all by itself to include him in the PM list.

    Looking forward to your jam-packed Half-Golem Revision, Chump!

    Looks like the Wendigo is nearing completion. It has five out of four amateur nominations, now it just needs two expert. Pretty soon, we'll have our very first monster class finished!

    I've looked over the Death Knight Revision and I'm tempted to nominate it too, but there have been some complaints that we're nominating things too quickly, so I'll hold off and give it one more look, just to be sure.

    I'll add that nominating things quickly shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Expert Nominations are there as a balance, and as you note, only two monsters, both monsters which were started in the old thread and edited for a while there, have an Expert Nomination.

    I'm surprised at the general high quality of the new monsters posted so far in this thread. They're all pretty flavorful and pretty balanced. Which is a good thing! It's a pleasant surprise! Keep up the good work, everyone!

    Hagunemnon is nearing completion. It's essentially a one trick pony, and almost all of its class features improve that one trick. And that one trick allows it to mimic a billion tricks. It's actually... really hard to balance. Basically just because you never know what the player might transform into, you could end up with a polymorph combo which is game breaking.

    Basically, here are its rules for transforming. It may not transform into a creature with a higher HD than itself. Though this scales as it levels up, by level 29, essentially at any time, it can assume two different abilities from five different creatures simultaneously, such as a tentacle and an extraordinary ability, or flight and the dragon type's benefits.

    Up until level 25, however, it must take an action of some sort to stabilize in its current form, or else it will melt back into miasma.

    Does that sound too powerful? How do you think I could balance it? It's essentially a Master Transmogrifist (Complete Arcane) on steroids.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-12-08 at 09:27 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Holy ... thread explosion!

    I'll get to revisions on the Phrenic template in a moment. I'd just first like to sort a few things out.

    First, can we please not have the arguments and questions/comments relating to the split here? I'd really rather not see it get locked because of flame wars starting or some such.

    Second, this thread was as much the brainchild of myself, ChumpLump and TheGeckoKing as it was Magicyop, so any complaints or queries can be directed as us four as a whole, rather than piling all of the pressure on Magic. As he said, he's only the poster because of his superior organization skills and his level head. (That is, we trust him not to go power-mad with editing privileges.)

    I'd also like to thank you all for the support shown and the rapid transition back into monster-making
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niezck View Post
    Holy ... thread explosion!

    I'll get to revisions on the Phrenic template in a moment. I'd just first like to sort a few things out.

    First, can we please not have the arguments and questions/comments relating to the split here? I'd really rather not see it get locked because of flame wars starting or some such.

    Second, this thread was as much the brainchild of myself, ChumpLump and TheGeckoKing as it was Magicyop, so any complaints or queries can be directed as us four as a whole, rather than piling all of the pressure on Magic. As he said, he's only the poster because of his superior organization skills and his level head. (That is, we trust him not to go power-mad with editing privileges.)

    I'd also like to thank you all for the support shown and the rapid transition back into monster-making
    Heck yes. I totally agree with everything Niezck said. We all worked together on this, as it should be for a democratic project like this.

    And the support is fantastic. We've already quickly blossomed into a working thread, with some high quality new monsters in the works right now. Everyone keep up the good work.
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  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Going to post up the Gibbering Mouther sometime today or tomorrow, depends on how fast I can finish my schoolwork.
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betropper View Post
    Going to post up the Gibbering Mouther sometime today or tomorrow, depends on how fast I can finish my schoolwork.
    Sounds great. Can't wait to see it.

    Before I unleash the first epic monster of the new thread, I'm going to do a smaller class: The Yellow Musk Creeper. I've had it near-finished for a little while, and now seems as good a time as any to post it. I think it's fun, I'm pretty proud of it. I'll post it later today and we'll see what you all think.
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Umber Hulk

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    Hit Dice: d10

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Umber Body, Object=Pain, +1 Str

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Confusing Gaze, Powerful Build

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Born Digger, Tremorsense, +1 Str

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Growth, Wreck the Earth

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |HULK SMASH!, Object=PAIN!, +1 Str

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Grab and Smash, WAAAARRRRGGGG!!!!!

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Tools of the Trade, +1 Str[/table]

    Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
    Class Skills: The Umber Hulk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

    Proficiencies: The Umber Hulk gains proficiency with it's natural attacks, and all simple weaponry, and any weapon you make with the Tools of the Trade.

    Stat Increases: The Umber Hulk gains +1 Str at every odd level. At 7th level and every 3 HD afterwards, they gain an additional +1 STR.

    Umber Body: The Umber Hulk loses all previous racial traits and gains the Aberration Type. It gains a Land Speed and Burrow Speed of 20ft, and it also gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing 1d6 + STR Mod OR a Slam attack dealing 1d8+1.5 Str Mod damage (Pick at 1st level, cannot be changed afterwards, unless you take the Mult-Beatdown Feat), and a secondary bite attack dealing 1d8 Str Mod. It is capable of fine manipulation, but it must buy specially made armor (125% normal price) to suit its bulky body. Also, you may count yourself as a Monstrous Humanoid for the sake of meeting the prerequisites of Prestige Classes.

    Object=Pain: The Umber Hulk takes no penalty whatsoever for using Improvised Weapons, and may use a willing person/unconcious person/dead corpse as an Improvised Weapon dealing damage equal to a Quarterstaff of the appropriate size, and with a damage bonus equal to the person's/body's HD/4. You may not wield a body that is too big for your size, and any damage you deal with a body is dealt to the body itself.

    Confusing Gaze: At 2nd level the Umber Hulk gains a Gaze Attack that is as Lesser Confusion, with a DC of (10+1/2HD+WIS Mod). At 7th level, this is upgraded to Confusion. You may supress this Gaze Attack as a free action.

    Powerful Build: You gain the Powerful Build ability. You lose this ability at 4th level, and is regained at 14HD.
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    Whenever you are subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), you are treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to you. You are also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect you. You can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, your space and reach remain those of a creature of your actual size. The benefits of this feat stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.


    Born Digger: At 3rd level, your claw attacks may ignore a number of points of hardness equal to your HD+5.

    Tremorsense: At 3rd level, you gain Tremorsense equal to your HD*5ft

    Growth: At 4th level, the Umber Hulk grows to Large Size.

    Wreck the Earth: At 4th level, you may slam your arms into the ground and break the earth beneath you. As a standard action, you may slam your arms into the ground, and create a (5*Str Modifier)ft circle of permanent Difficult Terrain centered on you. Anyone in your range when you do this must make a Reflex Save equal to (10+1/2HD+STR Mod), or be shunted 15ft backwards and knocked prone for 1 round, thrown into the air in a brutal manner. At 8HD, and every 6HD after that, increase the time victims spend prone by one round. If an affected creature has 5+ ranks in Balance, they gain a +4 bonus to the save.

    HULK SMASH!: At 5th level, you gain the Rage ability of a Barbarian, with your effective Barbarian level equalling your HD-4. You do not gain improved versions of Rage like normal Barbarians, but you do get increased uses as you level up, like a Barbarian. These uses of Rage stack with other uses of Rage you already have, or gain the future. Also, while in a Rage, you may ignore an amount of Hardness Points equal to your STR Mod. At 10HD, you do not become fatigued at the end of a Rage.

    Object=PAIN!: At 5th level, you gain a morale bonus to your attack rolls equal to your HD/4(Rounded down) when wielding an Improvised Weapon.
    Also, any weapon that you wield can be treated as if it had the Throwing enhancement, but with a range of your HD*5 instead of 10ft.

    Grab and Smash: At 6th level, whenever you make a successful grapple check, you may automatically damage the opponent as if you had made a successful bite attack (With full attack bonus).

    WAAAARRRRGGGG!: At 6th level, when you would only have 25% or less Hit Points left, you gain a bonus to your STR score, equal to your HD-5. This lasts for 1 round after it is activated, even if your HP would rise above 25% afterwards. Once you benefit from WAAAARRRRGGGG once, you may not benefit from it for 2 hours.

    Tools of the Trade: At 7th level, you can prove all the nay-sayers wrong and prove you are NOT a dummy! You're clever!
    By spending one minute gathering, and making a DC 15 Survival Check, you may make a weapon out of scraps.
    You may make any Simple or Martial Melee Weapon with a base value of 100gp or less, you are always considered proficient with your Gathered Weapon, but you may treat it as an Improvised Weapon to gain the bonus from your Object=PAIN! ability.
    If someone else would wield your weapon, or would leave it unattended, it falls apart in one round unless it is re-taken. The parts fall harmlessly on a square ajacent, and if you are next to your scraps, you may collect them up (1lb Small Object) and either store them for later, or make a weapon straight away.
    If you would roll a Nat 1 on your attack roll while wielding your gathered weapon, the weapon blows up, dealing 1 point of fire damage in a 10ft burst (No save) and is lost forever.
    If you already have a pile of scraps in your possession, you do not need to make a Survival Check, and it only takes one round to construct. You may only have one pile of scraps at a time.

    Your weapon's Enchantment Bonus is equal to your HD/4, and you may have a number of enhancements on yor weapon with a total bonus score of your HD/4. You may pick from the following list:
    Collision, Mighty Cleaving, Throwing, Thundering, Returning, Vicious, Vorpal, and Wounding.

    Feats

    Multi Beatdown
    Prerequisite: 1 or more levels in Umber Hulk, +5 BAB or more
    Benefit: If you have a Slam Attack, you gain the Claw Attacks you could of gained at 1st level as secondary attacks. If you have a Claw Attacks, you gain a Slam Attack like the one you could of gained at 1st level as a secondary attack.

    Pimp My Beatstick
    Prerequisite: Tools of the Trade class ability
    Benefit: Choose a Magic Weapon Enhancement that isn't on the list of Enhancements, and add it to the list. You still must meet the HD requirements to apply it to your Improvised Weapon.
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, pick a different enhancement and add it to the list.

    Posh Beatstick
    Prerequisites: Pimp My Beatstick
    Benefit: You may now make any Exotic Melee Weaponry with a base price of 100gp or less as well as Simple and Martial Weaponry.

    Comments/Changelog:
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    Comments
    It's big, it's strong, and it's gre.....buggy looking. He can hit things reliably with your friends, or with junk left on the floor, and if he's not threatening your square, he can still hit you out of the sky at higher levels. Hopefully.

    Changelog

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    9/12/10 - Gave him an STR Bonus, made some things clearer, Allowed it a Slam Attack OR Claw Attacks, improved Grab and Smash, made Wreck the Earth a bit simpler to calculate, reworded HULK SMASH! and WAAAARRRRGGGG! and nerfed Tools of the Trade/balanced it a bit.
    12/12/10 - Standardized the saves, made some things clearer, and allowed your Scrap Weapon to blow up on a fumble.
    13/12/10 - Fixed the TotT typo, weakened his bite attack, gave Wreck the Earth a standard bonus, they gain +1 STR every now and again past 7th level, and it has Powerful Build. Also, one last addition so you can be TRULY HORRID.
    16/12/10 - Cleared up typos, fixed the Growth/Powerful Build clash, fixed the math with Wreck the Earth, and WAAAARRRRGGGG a delay.
    27/12/10 - Nerfed WAAAARRRRGGGG by turning it into a short burst.
    Stopped Wrech the Earth from grounding flyers, but now it can just throw it's axe/a bus/that annoying Rogue at it instead, thanks to a slight mod on Object=PAIN! Also, it can ignore a bit of hardness instead of Grab and Smash (Which has been moved up to 6th level to make room and slightly boosted accordingly).
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-27 at 06:28 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Please spoiler screen stretching image.

    @Magic: Since this seems to be the new home of the project, I'll put the redone Lamassu here (I've been meaning to do it, really).

    How long are you going to wait for permission before adding old monsters. I can only assume since people made them and put them up for people to use, unless you get a specific request to not use them then it'll be ok.
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