Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

[Rumel]

I would like to nominate the purple worm... It seems like a great monster...

[Kajhera]

I would like to nominate the purple worm... It seems like a great monster...

It is a great monster! It's just a little long for me to read through and be sure I haven't missed anything. If everyone else will assure me it's well-edited as well as well-made, I'll throw my nomination in.

[Kobold-Bard]

Ok, getting to work on the Lamassu.

Since melding Lamassu & Golden Protector into a single class wasn't well recieved I figured I'd try a different idea. What do people think of me taking Cleric casting out of the Golden Protector and boosting it's inherent abilities instead. So you can either go pure Lamassu/Cleric to get casting, or lose a couple of spell levels and get some other sexy abilities that are more powerful than the srd G. Protector.

It'll make the PrC more of a choice rather than a necessity.

Thoughts?

[Kajhera]

Ok, getting to work on the Lamassu.

Since melding Lamassu & Golden Protector into a single class wasn't well recieved I figured I'd try a different idea. What do people think of me taking Cleric casting out of the Golden Protector and boosting it's inherent abilities instead. So you can either go pure Lamassu/Cleric to get casting, or lose a couple of spell levels and get some other sexy abilities that are more powerful than the srd G. Protector.

It'll make the PrC more of a choice rather than a necessity.

Thoughts?

Have you posted either of these yet, or were you still working on them too much?

[ScionoftheVoid]

Hey, welcome. Maybe a Remorhaz? It's seven levels! Okay, I'm sure there are other interesting requested classes too. What we really need right now are reviews, of course.

I just looked over the list. The Remorhaz and Morhg are of appropriate size, but the first has Swallow Whole, Heat, size increases and bullrush stuff to fit in seven levels and I'm not confident about Swallow Whole. The second is Undead (not confident about balancing it), has a paralysis ability (not confident about balancing it) and is pretty bland apart from that (not sure how to make it interesting, though I have some ideas).

I'm either going to do the Gargoyle (how do we not have one of these already?) or go and do some reviews (which are not from a great homebrewer or someone who has a great many books to compare the original creatures to) until something I feel I can do is requested.

Also, because I haven't gotten a response since yesterday or a full PEACH at all, my Sealed Force class (here) would work quite well as something to go into for some monsters. Just saying, you know, we may as well all review things at the same time. But seriously, I'm just quite impatient and I've been checking it all day.

[Kobold-Bard]

Have you posted either of these yet, or were you still working on them too much?

I posted it in Gorgon's thread, but the combined class was given the seal of disapproval & since then I've just been putting it off.

[bladesmith]

Hey, throwing my 2cp in again.

Gibbering Mouther:
1) Not sure what is going on with the BAB. It looks like 1/2(poor) progression, but it starts with a +1 at first level. 1/2 and 3/4 BAB have a +0 at first level, with the rounding down and stuff. The save progression is all wonky, too. There is a table somewhere in the thread that should help, or just look at any of the classes in the PHB and use good/bad saves from that.
2) For Gibbering, do you think you could come up with something between Confusion and Insanity? There are a lot of levels where the ability is the same, while everyone else is getting new stuff. Not sure how much of a problem that is or how hard it would be to find something else, but it seems a little... Off.
3) I like how you made it harder to get out of being Engulfed, but I'm still not sure what the DR/- is about. Also, is it just 2 failed saves, or 2 consecutive rounds with the Mouther attached? Just asking, because with as many bite attacks as it has, you could pretty easily get two bites on a target and Engulf them right off the bat. Hilarious and awesome, but it might need a little clarification. Maybe. Either that, or I just suck at making sense out of things like this.
Other then that, I like this class. For a seething monstrosity of craziness, it has a bunch of fun stuff that could make it an interesting character. While it might be better as a villain(confusion will affect teammates as well), I like the propensity it has for cutting off retreat with Ground Manipulation, a ranged attack option(at the perfect range for sneak attack!), and generally holding the opponents down when it does get into melee.

Umber Hulk: Can I say how much I like this concept right off the bat? Giant bug that beats people with whatever weapon is at hand? Heck yeah!
1) Huh. D8 hit die and 3/4 BAB seem a little on the low side for a primary melee-ist, but it makes sense as an aberration with a bunch of cool combat abilities.
2) There seems to be an extra line with "Umber Hulk" all by itself under Class Features. And 'by' should probably be 'buy' when it comes to armor.
3) With Object=Pain, does the person-flail take any damage from being used to smack enemies around? It seems like they should...
4) With Wreck the Earth, the Ref save= 1/2 STR seems a little on the low side. I mean, I know that your should be sending your strength into the stratosphere with this class, but even if you get your strength up to 30, the DC is only 15. However, maybe that is the way you want it, with only the people that really flub their saves to fall over. Even so, something more conventional might work better. Also, perhaps give a bonus on the save if they have 5 ranks in balance, or something like that. You might also want to redo the save on the 12HD flying version to something more conventional, too.
5) Does WAAAAARRRGGG! end if the bonus hit points you get from the CON increase puts you over 25% of your original HP? I'd have to work out the math, but I think it could also put you over 25% of your new HP, so what happens then? Still, I would not want to be anywhere near a wounded, raging Umber Hulk, just by looking at this. Which means that you are doing a great job with this class.
6) The Tools of the Trade weapons don't feel much like improvised weapons to me. Maybe something about them falling apart after a confirmed crit, or a nat. 1 on an attack roll. However, this isn't really necessary, so much as a flavor thing.
This class is AWESOME. I would play this in a heartbeat, just because you go around wrecking things, then using the wreckage to wreck other things. How much cooler can you get?

More to critique to come, hopefully. If you guys don't mind my "lowest common denominator of understanding" perspective.

[Kajhera]

Mind? Throw us more reviews!

Kobold-Bard, might want to put up a link then. Getting to Gorgon's thread is increasingly difficult (it fell off the first page).

[monkman]

I am going to endorse nominate the swarm shifter and the Ankheg,They look like 2 solide classes.

Anyways would an ability like this

Bonded By Undeath:You "acquire" a Undeaf servant to serve your whims. You gain a Undead as a cohort that is always Friendly towards you, but cannot take the Leadership feat, or any other version of it (Like Undead Leadership). The Undead's HD is equal to your own minus 8. If your Undead servant would be slain, you may aquire another one by finding a appriate body and doing a ritual that takes one hour and 500gp worth of reagents.

Work?(I want to replace the animate dead(also if my wording is bad, Then anyone,is allowed to corect it))

[Kobold-Bard]

Mind? Throw us more reviews!

Kobold-Bard, might want to put up a link then. Getting to Gorgon's thread is increasingly difficult (it fell off the first page).

No, I'm going to do them again from scratch, just wanted people's opinion on the idea first. The SRD G. Protector gets some abilities and continues the Lamassu's cleric progression, I wanted to drop the spellcasting in favour of better abilities and wanted to make sure I wouldn't get some major objection for the change.

[Kajhera]

I would not, personally, be willing to give up access to both leadership and undead leadership for a cohort 6 levels worse.

[monkman]

I would not, personally, be willing to give up access to both leadership and undead leadership for a cohort 6 levels worse.

Any ideas on how to change it?

[Kajhera]

Any ideas on how to change it?

Don't tie it to other feats, and make it something like a familiar, blackguard's servant, animal companion, or wild cohort instead?

Mainly, don't tie it to other feats, and don't make it such low hit dice to get killed and turned constantly if it follows you around.

Still have it impose a penalty (as familiar) on leadership score to find a cohort.

[AugustNights]

A: I will make a splinterthread for werewhathaveyous, probably in about three days. I figure it can be a branch of niche-branch of this project, with perhaps a link in the listed monsters? This way we can avoid spamming the threads as Hyudra has suggested, and we can continue making ridiculous werethings.

B: I believe there was a vote for to return to the old means of only posting one monster at a time. I propose 3, with 1 at 'priority.' This way people can unword document monsters while they wait, and will be encouraged to focus on one monster at a time. I know I'm super busy right now, and with the rate the thread is growing my critique time will be limited.

[TheGeckoKing]

For Bonded in Service, HD-8 is a but much, so I would just bump the HD to HD-2. Now, as for the Umber Hulk, I have some fixin' to do!

[Kajhera]

A: I will make a splinterthread for werewhathaveyous, probably in about three days. I figure it can be a branch of niche-branch of this project, with perhaps a link in the listed monsters? This way we can avoid spamming the threads as Hyudra has suggested, and we can continue making ridiculous werethings.

B: I believe there was a vote for to return to the old means of only posting one monster at a time. I propose 3, with 1 at 'priority.' This way people can unword document monsters while they wait, and will be encouraged to focus on one monster at a time. I know I'm super busy right now, and with the rate the thread is growing my critique time will be limited.

I've imposed a personal limit on myself of 2, and have a trumpet archon partly written waiting in the wings for when the Ankheg is done. Though it still needs work. That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, and happily a factor of the number of nominations a monster needs! Err, I think I've been trying to work out aesthetically pleasing progressions too much...

[Hyudra]

I might propose a stricter limit of 1 creature in process at a time, until we get this backlog of unfinished monsters done.

Batch of reviews coming.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Okay, read through the Animated Object. I have one thing to say. Bad Magicyop, too many at will abilities!

Codex and Religious artifact need to be on uses/day and have a limit to how expensive the material components and focuses can be to qualify.

Crystalline Resonance is way too powerful, Psi-likes auto-augment, and it is also at will!

No comment on Ancient Tactics - which seems okay - or Soul Crafted - I do not have the experience with Incarnum to judge.

Spray needs an area, probably a line or cone.

Musical allows things at will, when it is really not necessary (you get one Bardic Music use per HD anyway, which is either all you need or all that's balanced).

Mirror, Mirror could use a minimum required HD and should not be at will, especially not without an HD limit.

Selection, please no. Unless they can't normally wear magic items (in which case I missed that and my complaints on this matter are not valid) this just needs to go. More than normal magic item slots is very bad, particularly if it's based on a stat, which you can then boost with magic items to let you wear even more. That should be kept in mind even if they can't normally wear magic items (base it on HD or something).

Psychedelic... I don't know. It probably needs the same treatment as Codex and Religious Artifact, at least, but it really depends on the spell chosen. Maybe give a specific list?

Get all that sorted and I'll be happy to reevaluate for a possible nomination. *dives into Phrenic Creature*


Phrenic Creature

First thing, the requirements seem kind of odd, anything other than voluntary transformation would be odd requiring Knowledge: Psionics ranks. That's not a mark against it for me, it just seems wierd.

Second, it looks good. I'm wary of Psi-like abilities, and I'm drawing a blank on what 1/X/day would be if X were anything other than 1, but I don't think it could be awful with the praise I've read for it.

Assuming you can help me with the math bit that's currently hurting my brain, I'm happy to give a nomination. *next up is the Swarmshifter*


Swarmshifter

That was a quick read. Overall it seems good, interesting and worth your while taking.

What the Druid's Wild Shape is based on has changed several times, so saying exactly what you gain and lose couldn't hurt. I assume there is no size restriction for component members of the swarm, because otherwise this wouldn't work at all. That presents a problem due to immunity to weapon damage, in a project where even DR seems to be handed out rather sparingly.

Size refers to size category, you want space of a creature however many sizes larger or smaller than you.

Relying on the DM to balance is a bit slack and the CR system is known to be fallible, but the CR=HD-1 limitation helps. I'd prefer a set swarm damage/HD and a table of additional effects with minimum HD limits to just "pick a swarm", to be honest. Less chance to dumptser-dive for the strongest form for munchkins, less looking through the MM and printing additional sheets for each form for the casual players and less reason for the DM to always be on edge. These classes are supposed to be easy to use, and that really isn't (though it's a problem shared by many official things, that doesn't make it okay). I'll gladly help with suggestions for additional effects, as I'm sure many others on the project will.

I'm sorry, but I can't honestly give this a nomination. *next up, the Grell*

Sorry, but this looks great on the surface, less so in-depth. I can't

[Benly]

The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.

The image of a Pandorym shard flying around bonking into people to attack seems a bit at odds with its overall aesthetic, even at first level. An odd thing that came to mind while reading it is the idea of giving it a very short-range teleportation PLA that initially takes more than a move action to use to compensate for being in the best movement mode - most rounds it can't move, but when it does it ignores intervening obstacles. As it levels up, the range of the teleport would scale up and the action required would scale down to be more in line with available movement modes. This would require replacing the slam attack, probably with an at-will short-range PLA that has similar damage and scaling.

Just a thought, though. I just like the idea of the shard moving by just being somewhere else the next time you look at it.

edit: awesome, I am the slowpoke who doesn't notice there's another page of stuff after the page I read.

[Hyudra]

Yellow Musk Creeper

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• D8 seems like a lot of HD for a vine. I really would have conceptualized the creature as a low HD parasite rather than a beefy tank.
• BAB/Saves seem ok.
• Skills:
  
  • It has bluff/diplomacy, but can't speak?
  • Sense motive on a plant seems... unusual. In fact, all of the Cha skills do.
• Photosynthesis: Kind of runs against natural inclinations. Creeping vines, particularly parasitic ones, are antiphototropic. That is, they grow away from natural light. They get their energy from whatever they're preying on (other plants or in case of carnivorous plants, insects/animals).
  
  • This makes sense flavorwise too; do you see a Yellow Musk Creeper growing on a rock in an open field, or do you see it growing in the shadowy regions of a dank swamp or the deepest area of a forest?
• Musk Puff: I'm not sure I like the notion of musk puff being used as a 200' targeted attack at level 20. I might suggest it would be a ray attack, no damage, force fort save on hit.
  
  • Further, 1d8 per 2HD rounds is... a really long time. Long enough that most creatures the party runs against would be almost guaranteed to fall victim to it. Is that necessary? What's the design goal?
  • I'd make the "You suffer no penalty for having opponents in your space (or even being grappled?) a separate ability of the class. You're a vine, after all.
  • 'might even affect companions' - Needs more defined rules. When will a creature attack friends? Will they use their full complement of abilities?
• Ability Score Bonuses: Stat bonuses seem ok balancewise. Designwise, a little one dimensional. It's... not what I'd first think of when conceptualizing the class.
• Mind Eater: I'd rework this to operate as an automatic aspect of a successful grapple. Easy to visualize the one guy who refuses to be puffed, wrestling with the vine to keep the tendrils from piercing his brain.
• Flowering: I like ability options. Let's see...
  
  • Musk bomb is good.
  • Spore sniping is kinda redundant. After 4th level, you shouldn't ever have range issues with it.
  • I do not like Focused Blossom. Maybe tie it to iterative attacks in BAB?
  • Creeper is ok, but I might change it to allow someone to take it multiple times, with a bonus other than the +4 move silently each time.
  • Plant Strength is kinda a lame name for an ability. The ability also references zombies, which doesn't come up until later in the class. A mite confusing and awkward. (You can get a bonus to zombie strength well before you have zombies to control).
  • Halo of Tendrils - I don't like it. The class has a good flavor of drawing enemies into one's embrace, and this breaks that flavor.
    
    • Also, the word Permanent really, really, really bugs me. I can imagine a DM having an argument with a player over the fact that the yellow musk creeper the player fought permanently left vines/flowers sticking out of the character's head.
  • Greenery Shield is ok, but given the issues I take with the anti-flavor of photosynthesis, the regeneration buff may be problematic. The reference to regeneration has same issues as plant strength, in referring to class features that haven't been detailed yet.
• Growth - The powerful build thing is kind of a trademark of giants and giant types, which I personally worked on. I can't say I adore that, or how it's used/outlined here. Also, the colossal yellow musk plant... I can't really see it. In reading the class, this is where it really feels like it's straying wholesale from the concept & implementation of the core monster.
• Yellow Musk Zombies - Too powerful, by far. It's too easy to get a mess of zombies, and with the stat bonuses you can pick up, you can make them absolute monsters.
  
  • You're talking about a 15th level PC having 60HD of minions under its sway.
  • More than that, we must remember that HD doesn't always correlate to CR, so you could have some low HD, higher CR threats under your control, giving you an absolutely ridiculous boost in raw power.
  • Further, this hurts the group dynamic. Why have teammates when you're a one character army?

Honestly, not the way I would've conceptualized the class. My own approach would've been to have a relatively vulnerable, slow moving plant (with class abilities allowing it to root in a host, and mitigate vulnerabilities) with the ability to control a more narrow selection of minions. So you'd be a fairly narrow and one-trick character as a PC, but you'd have a wealth of options as far as keeping, say, a maximum of 3 zombies at a given time.

Gibbering Mouther

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• Stick to standard BAB progression. I don't fault you - this was one of the first complaints I got about my first creation (Hill Giant). Copy the progression from one of the classic classes. I advise against full BAB; instead, I might recommend roguelike BAB progression and a strength bonus.
• Skill points look fine.
• Under proficiencies, you use it's where you should have 'its'.
• Strange Body:
  
  • Name 'Strange Body' is a little too generic. To prevent overlap with other monster classes in the future, perhaps rename to Gibbering Body or such?
  • I'd slow down the progression of bite attacks, just a smidge. There seems to be this trend (Grell, Gibbering Mouther, Yellow Musk) of having this insane progression for number of natural attacks. Remember, you're comparing yourself to a standard PC who gets +1 attack at 6th level.
  • It's a bit weird to imagine a Gibbering Mouther using a greatsword. Might I suggest allowing fine manipulation but barring weapon use?
  • Given the amorphous nature of a gibbering mouther, not sure I like the fact that he can wear armor.
• You need an entry explaining the stat growth (+con). The stat growth is a bit feeble. I'd recommend less than full BAB, no ability to wear standard armor, but higher Str and Con to compensate. Anything else would feel weird.
• Blood Drain
  
  • "or take 1d4 points of damage for each attached mouth and cannot move" is a bit awkwardly worded, and seems to imply a creature a gibbering mouther is attached to can move away from the mouther if they make the save.
  • "The Mouther then gains the same amount of HP." - I'd clarify this. ie. The mouther gains HP equal to the damage done via. Blood Drain.
  • "If he succeeds, the mouth is removed." - if who succeeds? The person making the saving throw mentioned sentences ago, or the mouther? Read one way, the victim breaks free on a successful save. Read another, a successful blood drain breaks the hold.
  • "Add an extra d4 for damage from each mouth latched per 5 HD." - Again, confusingly worded and confusingly placed in the description. Is this extra d4 added to healing, or to damage done?
  • "The Gibbering Mouther loses one bite attack for each mouth latched on at the time." - Hate to say it, but again, this is confusingly worded. I'd clarify to state "A mouth attached to an enemy cannot be used to deliver a bite attack."
  • It bears stating: Can the Gibbering Mouther break the hold of its own volition?
• Spittle:
  
  • "emit a spittle" reads wrongly. Translates to, like, "Push out a drool." You probably mean, like, "fire a line of spittle."
  • Otherwise fine.
• Gibbering:
  
  • Hurts teammates.
  • "One per day per 3 HD" should be "Once per day per 3 HD".
  • I agree with bladesmith, it doesn't get much more interesting with levels. Which doesn't do a lot for the creature, given that it is a trademark ability. I'd suggest creating your own set of abilities (kind of what I did with Harpy) to make it more diverse and fun.
  • I'm not sure I like weird as the final stage. Seems a little out of place
• Ground manipulation:
  
  • I'm interested to know why you changed it from the effect in the creature entry, as far as the type of action it requires and how fast it works.
• Engulf:
  
  • Again, you mean "failed its save two times", not "failed it's save two times". Ditto for "although it's DC increases".
  • Unlike bladesmith, I have no issue with the DR/-.
• Growth is fine.
• Re: Comments, I don't think it's overpowered. I just think the number of mouths needs to be toned down. Clarify that it can speak, tidy up some moar of the grammars, and take a little bit to think about making Gibber more interesting and usable.

Ankheg (Awakened)

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Admittedly, this is one creature I would've aimed to do myself, had I not been busy (and if I'd been able to solve the Dumb Brute conundrum in Purple Worm - making low-int creatures viable as PCs without breaking flavor). With that in mind...

• Table formatting, right off that bat: Consider shortening Base Attack Bonus to BAB, and having the saves shortened to Fort, Ref & Will. Will make the table tidier (that, or copy-paste another table from another monster entry and replace the data.) As is, it looks a little distorted.
• D12 HD, less than full BAB progression, one good save, 2 skill points a level. I'm looking at this and telling myself the bug had better get something good to compensate, because it's not gonna thrive, as is.
• Insectoid Body:
  
  • Like I said for the gibbering mouther, I really urge people to be specific with naming the 'body' abilities. Being too vague will create overlap, with multiple monsters potentially having 'insectoid body'. Creates ugliness if you were to, say, gestalt monster classes. Rename to Ankheg body?
  • Burrow speed at 1st level is problematic for much the same reason flight is. You can't burrow and snipe at people from underground, but other shenanigans are possible. I faced this issue with my own purple worm, and gave it slow progression.
  • Burrowing through adamantine - I predict some player trying to use this to justify their attacks going through an enemy's armor. I don't think the exotic material burrowing is necessary.
• Tremorsense is fine.
• Please, please, please state what level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to constantly backtrack to the table to double check. For anyone critiquing (me) and anyone playing the class.
• Tunneling:
  
  • Creating a 5'x5'x15' tunnel as fast as you're describing is a bit much, I think. Also, this kind of breaks campaigns. Consider how this impacts a group's progression through a dungeon, past major threats, etc.
• Lunge:
  
  • Is more or less fine, though I still take issue with low level burrowing, but I see a lot of Ankhegs going into Rogue for the sneak attack damage. I might rework the flatfootedness.
• Ant Lion Attack:
  
  • You get it at 2nd level, and it oftentimes does nothing. By which I mean, you can drag a creature 5' per 3 HD... but if you have only 2HD, it's a useless ability. Move to 3rd level or give it a minimum 5' drag? Consider a cap on the maximum, too.
  • Thinking of ways to abuse it... an Ankheg needs to cover a lot of ground in combat, so he moves a full 30', grapples a teammate, who voluntarily fails the grapple check, then ankheg moves X' underground as bonus movement.
  • What happens if you drag an opponent underground and leave them there?
  • It says you 'may' take them with you. What happens if you don't?
• Spit Acid:
  
  • A bit weak when compared to dragon's breath weapons. Single target vs. AoE, lower damage. Needs something to spice it up. A bonus effect or something.
• Growth:
  
  • Again, I don't think we should be using staggered powerful build. To me, it's a Giant & Gigantic creature thing. Just give it steady growth.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Grell

Very good class. Only potential problem I can spot is Blindsight with reasonable range. Maybe have Blindsight to 10ft+5ft per HD and Blindsense out to twice that distance (so 20ft+10ft per HD), or better yet Blindsight to 10ft+5ft per HD and Electricity Sense (sense electricity within 100ft, as a Shocker Lizard). I could be overreacting but a non-Core feat or spell (and a fairly high level spell at that) is needed to avoid Blindsight unless you manage to block line of effect (Snake-style box?), whilst normal sight is far more easily defeated and since Grell are naturally blind they get immunities on top of seeing better than a human does.

I assume you wanted the Bite to be usable only from within another creature's space (which is what 0ft reach means).

Not quite ready to nominate, convince me on or change the Blindsight and I'll be happy to give my nomination.

(Awakened) Ankheg

I looked through this one earlier and loved it. I'd personally move the burrow speed up to 10ft/2 HD, for simplicity if nothing else (so I move 3.33ft as a move action? That's not enough to take me into another space, what happens, exactly? Do I need a double move to get anywhere?) and clarify whether or not you can charge or run whilst burrowing. The class is still perfectly usable even without that, so I give it my nomination.

[TheGeckoKing]

@ScionoftheVoid
I actually though about a customizable swarm because the original Swarmshifter is slightly customizable (You get a form to pick when you get the template), but then I remembered how annoying customizable classes are to make. Seriously. I'd have to make about 3 different effects for every HD past 3HD and that means about 55+ effects, or i'll end up with about 10 different things you can pick and it'll just be boring. The psedo-Wild Shape stays. I'll make the wording clearer though, so thanks for catching that.

[ScionoftheVoid]

@ScionoftheVoid
I actually though about a customizable swarm because the original Swarmshifter is slightly customizable (You get a form to pick when you get the template), but then I remembered how annoying customizable classes are to make. Seriously. I'd have to make about 3 different effects for every HD past 3HD and that means about 55+ effects, or i'll end up with about 10 different things you can pick and it'll just be boring. The psedo-Wild Shape stays. I'll make the wording clearer though, so thanks for catching that.

Why not just give the basic stuff (poison, etc.) and a few extras and having them scale? I'll back off, though. I'll need to go over it again before considering a nomination.

[Benly]

[*]You're talking about a 15th level PC having 60HD of minions under its sway.[*]More than that, we must remember that HD doesn't always correlate to CR, so you could have some low HD, higher CR threats under your control, giving you an absolutely ridiculous boost in raw power.[*] Further, this hurts the group dynamic. Why have teammates when you're a one character army?

Honestly, not the way I would've conceptualized the class. My own approach would've been to have a relatively vulnerable, slow moving plant (with class abilities allowing it to root in a host, and mitigate vulnerabilities) with the ability to control a more narrow selection of minions. So you'd be a fairly narrow and one-trick character as a PC, but you'd have a wealth of options as far as keeping, say, a maximum of 3 zombies at a given time.

I would say you're half right here. The problem isn't the quantity of minions - you even acknowledge that HD doesn't correlate to CR, and a character who puts any amount of serious effort into necromancy can match the yellow musk creeper on sheer numbers. A fairly large HD value of shambling meat shields just isn't a problem - 60 HD of Animate Dead-quality minions at level 15 is slightly worse than hiring four appropriate-level human warrior bodyguards, and those guys aren't all that great to begin with. (Alternately you could have a few dozen low-HD minions, in which case you've established excellent bait for a single enemy Fireball.) The problem, I would say, is the quality of minions.

Yellow Musk Zombies are a lot nastier than regular, non-chia zombies. As enemies, this makes sense - the idea of the yellow musk creeper is that it threatens a fight against your zombified buddies, and if they lose all their abilities that's not terribly threatening. As a PC minion, it's a problem. Reducing it to 3 zombies or reducing the HD limit doesn't really remove the problem, since it only takes one brainjacked CR 8 10HD efreet to break the game (or whatever low-HD high-power spell-like/supernatural-wielding monstrosity you prefer.) What reducing the number does is make sure that you never want to brainjack a boring old giant or animal because you want to have room when a beholder comes along. In other words, it makes your musk zombie selection as far from the archetypal brain-drained zombie slaves as possible, which may not be desirable.

An idea comes to mind to address the issue, but it's kind of weirdly complicated so it's probably not the best option. Divide yellow musk zombies into lesser and greater, allowing the creeper to keep a brute squad of lesser zombies and "promote" a level-limited number to greater zombies. Lesser zombies lose their Sp and Su abilities and are basically expendable meat shields. Greater zombies regain Sp and Su abilities, but cannot use any that duplicate spells of the same or higher level than the highest-level spell a wizard of level equal to the creeper's HD could use.

It's kind of clunky, but that's the idea that comes to mind.

[Hyudra]

The Swarmshifter

Spoiler

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[list][*]Needs more requirements for entry, IMHO, if just flavorful ones.[*]Under requirements, you probably meant 'corporeal'.[*]Buzzing Flesh:

• Shapeshifter isn't a type. You mean Shapechanger.
• 'Typing' is the wrong word. You mean type.

[*]Friend of the Plague:

• Bizarre ability. I don't see the point.

[*]Swarm Form:

• So if I want to use this ability, I need to double check the druid entry & look up wildshape? No. Please outline the type of action it takes, the progression, etc, in the skill description.
• "Certain forms may be banned for the sake of balance." - You need to outline which, or rework the ability. Leaving it up to the DM is lazy and just leads to issues coming up & having to be fixed, over & over.
• You can go two routes. Route 1 is to just define a specific swarm form & outline ability progression for that swarm form over 20-ish levels.
• Route 2 is to make a list of allowed/banned forms.

Until either route 1 or route 2 is successfully implemented, I strongly urge people not to nominate or endorse this class. There's too many potential issues as is, and 'certain forms may be banned for sake of balance' is a lazy shortcut. The various alternate form/polymorph/shapechange abilities have been revised and altered countless times in 3.5's history, and a swarm specific list of forms.

[TheGeckoKing]

Oh for crying out loud........you expect everyone who uses this class to be a Munchkin. Fine. I'll go and try to give it scaling abilities, but now it's gonna take me near an eternity to do it because i've also got Pandorym to do.

[Rumel]

I think I'm going to take on the Demi-Lich... It seems very strait forward and would be very fun to make... I'm just wondering if a meta-magic feat every 3 levels is too much (I want it to have better spell casting since it has no body... Maybe every 4 hmm...) also, should I make it a PrC for phylactery owners, or a base class?

[TheGeckoKing]

I'd say go for an Prc. A base class would
1. Take ages
2. Be a bit wierd.

[Rumel]

I'd say go for an Prc. A base class would
1. Take ages
2. Be a bit wierd.

Should I make it for Lichs only, or for any skeleton-like undead (or somewhere in-between)?

[LOTRfan]

Honestly, but this is just me, I'd make Lich a base class and Demi-Lich be a prestige class. Granted, its been a while since I've read the Epic Level Handbook, but isn't the Demi-Lich template only applicable to Liches and Dracoliches?

EDIT: Just read the post above. I'd let Liches, Dracoliches, and Illithiliches join, only.