Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

[Gorgondantess]

Thanks for the help on the dragons. I think I've seen said Black Dragon class.
I have another question for you guys. Considering how some of these races/classes kina out rank the old races and classes, what would you guys do to consolidate the original races and classes? Something you guys would do yourself, and/or finding reasonable homebrew for the problem? If the people coming here could get links to rebalanced homebrew, it would make things a lot easier.

Honestly? Depends on the class. As I've discussed into the ground with Hyudra, the red dragon is certainly more powerful than many other monsters. The Yuan-Ti is also pretty powerful. They just need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

[Dante & Vergil]

Honestly? Depends on the class. As I've discussed into the ground with Hyudra, the red dragon is certainly more powerful than many other monsters. The Yuan-Ti is also pretty powerful. They just need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

Most of the classes are probably fine, it's those few who make me worry, like any of the Dragons, at least to me.

[Gorgondantess]

Most of the classes are probably fine, it's those few who make me worry, like any of the Dragons, at least to me.

You were talking about how these recent classes outrank the older classes. You do realize that the Red Dragon was the first Improved Monster Class made?

[Dante & Vergil]

Did I say recent? I didn't mean to say that. Sorry about that.

[Gorgondantess]

Did I say recent? I didn't mean to say that. Sorry about that.

Ah. In that case? Again, case by case basis, though there's definitely a power creep factor. It's just... kindof unavoidable. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting you. You're talking about how some monster classes are more/less powerful than others, yes?

[The Tygre]

Less talking, more monsters. I've sat around for two of these threads without so much as peep now. I think I'm entitled to a request;

Gentlemen, bring me a Yith Hound (MM) class. Or a Shadow Mastiff (MM). Or even a Vole (FF). Just something Evil and canine that isn't a Hell Hound.

[Kobold-Bard]

Any chance I can get some follow up on the Quasi-God? I know I'm being a bit pushy but a DM won't let me use it until it's approved, and I wanna use it.

[Gorgondantess]

'Kay. I'll try to get through the Quasi-god relatively quickly, then, but I believe it'll take at least a week. Needs work, and just more.
Under the first ability: what if the creature is already a construct or undead? Becoming an outsider from that is a no-no.
Giving both charm person & charm monster is redundant. Seriously.
SR is a bit low- I believe the standard is 11+HD.
Limited wish: burn a specific stat. One that'll be important, or if not important a dump stat. Probably charisma.
Now, a few other things- flavor things that I think would enhance the class:
A quasi-god should be better than mortals at just... stuff. ESPECIALLY stuff pertaining to their portfolio. I'd lower the charisma increases to a total of +2, then let them choose about +2 - +4 over the levels to a stat of their choice. I mean, they're a semi-god. Pretty potent stuff there.
Secondly, I'm not a fan of the animal companion. What if the god's thing is self-reliance? Instead of that one there, I'd give a set of abilities to choose from.

[Darthteej]

*Pokes head in*. Um Hi, I think I'd like to do the Efreeti monster class, as differentiated from the Dijjini already made. Don't get me wrong, it was perfectly fine as a way to grant the bare bones genie abilities. However, I'm envisioning something longer and more elaborate, essentially what it does is work as a combination of base and prestige class at 15 level. It's like the prestige Paladin, Bard, and Ranger variants, working off of a pre-existing spellcasting class, and with a very modest base Efreeti race provided. My idea here will be to expand the power over fire that Efreeti have, subitute full spellcasting progression with diverse SLAs, and figure out how to balance Wish in some way, as well as capture some flavor.

[Hyudra]

As far as I know, nobody has called the Efreet, so you're welcome to do it, Darthteej. In fact, I was looking through the list of monsters and thinking it was surprising that the Efreet was not yet done.

*Pokes head in*. Um Hi, I think I'd like to do the Efreeti monster class, as differentiated from the Dijjini already made. Don't get me wrong, it was perfectly fine as a way to grant the bare bones genie abilities. However, I'm envisioning something longer and more elaborate, essentially what it does is work as a combination of base and prestige class at 15 level. It's like the prestige Paladin, Bard, and Ranger variants, working off of a pre-existing spellcasting class, and with a very modest base Efreeti race provided. My idea here will be to expand the power over fire that Efreeti have, subitute full spellcasting progression with diverse SLAs, and figure out how to balance Wish in some way, as well as capture some flavor.

My only issue is that you're plotting something "Longer and more elaborate" - standard for working on monster classes is to have the max level in the class tied to the CR. So the Efreet would be an 8 level class.

Can I recommend building off the first 8 levels, with scaling-by-HD allowing for the later content? For example, if you don't like wishes as an 8th level ability, have the "Greater Efreet Magic" section that covers 8th level SLAs explain something like "Finally, at 16 HD, the Efreet gains a specialized ability to grant wishes." Failing that, perhaps build the Efreet to 8th level, and then we can talk about extending it to an 'Efreet Lord' once that's done? You may find you're well and sick of the Efreet by the time you get that far.

Flavorwise, it's interesting to note that (unless I'm somehow distorting legends from multiple sources, here) the legends of Efreet are based around king Solomon sealing the djinn and efreet into servitude. When someone rubs a lamp/ring/sword/gemstone and a djinn/efreet pops out to grant wishes, that's because someone bound them there. As a player, the wishes you get from Efreet are typically because they were bound somewhere or someone is casting (abusing) planar ally. If the efreet is a player, it really changes that whole ball game.

[NineThePuma]

The Efreet was part of the Genie monster class, as I recall. There are a number of "combo classes" like that =\

[Hyudra]

The Efreet was part of the Genie monster class, as I recall. There are a number of "combo classes" like that =\

Was it? I thought I'd seen it somewhere, but couldn't remember.

That's a shame. It could stand to be an entry in and of itself.

[Darthteej]

Was it? I thought I'd seen it somewhere, but couldn't remember.

That's a shame. It could stand to be an entry in and of itself.

No, he's wrong. Now, the Dijinni class does have a wish granting ability, but it also has stuff specific to that race, like Whirlwind. I'm going to base my Efreeti's movement progression on that class, but it's definitely not generic.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Under the first ability: what if the creature is already a construct or undead? Becoming an outsider from that is a no-no.

Err, why? No other PrC Monster Classes mention that (1/2 Celestial, Monster of Legend, Saint I looked at).

Giving both charm person & charm monster is redundant. Seriously.

Thought I'd deleted Person, my bad.

SR is a bit low- I believe the standard is 11+HD.

Done.

Limited wish: burn a specific stat. One that'll be important, or if not important a dump stat. Probably charisma.

I'll make it 1 mental stat of the player's choice, so as not to screw over Sorcerers.

Now, a few other things- flavor things that I think would enhance the class:
A quasi-god should be better than mortals at just... stuff. ESPECIALLY stuff pertaining to their portfolio. I'd lower the charisma increases to a total of +2, then let them choose about +2 - +4 over the levels to a stat of their choice. I mean, they're a semi-god. Pretty potent stuff there.

Done.

Secondly, I'm not a fan of the animal companion. What if the god's thing is self-reliance? Instead of that one there, I'd give a set of abilities to choose from.

As always, any suggestions would be welcome (from everyone, not just Gorgon).

Making new abilities now, everything else is done.

[Gorgondantess]

Err, why? No other PrC Monster Classes mention that (1/2 Celestial, Monster of Legend, Saint I looked at).

I had no say in the creation of the half celestial, and I don't think it's a particularly good class.
Saint & Creature of Legend aren't problems, because that'll never crop up- they don't allow constructs or undead.
The fact of the matter is, changing type from construct or undead is huge. You're gaining an ability score. Not just points in an ability score, but you are gaining an ability score, period. How is that handled? And that's only the tip of the iceberg. What about all the d12 HD? Do you reroll all of those? Sure, that's simple enough for flat class levels, but what about undead HD? What about the construct hp bonuses? It's all unsaid stuff, and beyond that, many wouldn't want to change from construct or undead. Thus, this can be handled one of two ways: either don't allow constructs or undead, or don't have constructs or undead change type aside from maybe gaining a subtype.

As always, any suggestions would be welcome (from everyone, not just Gorgon).

Awww, you don't want my suggestions?
Kidding. I get it. Anyways, some suggestions... depends. Spellcasting multiclassing could be an allowed ability. *shrugs*. I donno, I've gotta keep my creative juices for my own classes.

[Hyudra]

Basilisk


Class

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HD: D12

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+0| Basilisk Body, Stone Eye, Eight Clawed, +1 Str
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+0| Tail Smash, Slow Metabolism, +1 Con
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+1| Geomorphic Gaze, Deliberate Advance, +1 Str
4th|+3|+4|+1|+1| Basilisk Subspecies, Torpid Nature, +1 Con
5th|+3|+4|+1|+1| Petrifying Eye, +1 Str
[/table]

Skill Points 2+Int per level
Class Skills: Climb, Hide, Listen, Spot, Survival.

Proficiencies: The Basilisk is proficient only with its own natural attacks.

Basilisk Body: The Basilisk loses all other racial bonuses and gains Magical Beast traits, granting it Darkvision 60' and low light vision. Basilisks are medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 20', possessing a bite attack that delivers 1d8 + 2x Str mod damage and natural armor equal to 1 plus their con modifier.

Basilisks lack the ability to perform fine manipulation and cannot speak. Those who spend at least a week in the basilisk's company can learn to understand its body language and low growls enough that the they can understand simple expressions such as 'danger', 'hate', 'gratitude' and so on.

Attribute Bonus: The Basilisk gains +1 to Strength at levels 1, 3 and 5, as well as +1 to Con at levels 2 and 4, for a total bonus of +3 Str and +2 Con at 5th level.

Stone Eye: Starting at first level, the Basilisk may make use of its trademark petrifying gaze. Each use of Stone Eye applies one of the effects chosen from the list below (of which you know two). This is a supernatural effect that operates as a standard action, affecting a single target within 20', with an additional 5' range at 3HD and every 2HD thereafter. You must have line of sight to the target, and miss chances for concealment apply as normal for gazes. The Basilisk is immune to its own gaze.

Pick two. This choice of known Stone Eye abilities is made once, and you can use either of these effects in a given round from that point on:

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• Glancing Glaze - The Basilisk sweeps its gaze over the target, turning exposed flesh, hair and bone into a thin layer of stone.
  The target must make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con) or have their skin turned to a layer of inflexible stone. This works as the fatigued condition (Cannot run or charge, -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity), except it does not stack with other causes of fatigue (or itself) to cause the target to be exhausted. The effect lasts 1 round per HD.
  
  At 8HD, the Basilisk can opt to halve the duration and have the effect render the target exhausted instead.
  
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• Heavy Glare - The target must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con) or be partially turned to dense stone. The target's movement speed is halved and they take a -1 penalty on attack rolls, reflex saves and AC. This effect lasts lasts 1 round per HD.
  
  At 8HD, the Basilisk can opt to halve the duration and have the effect slow the target instead, as per the spell.
  
  .
• Craggy Look - The Basilisk may focus the power in its gaze into a surge of petrifying energy. Struck foes are turned to stone for just a heartbeat, and do not turn all the way back to flesh when the effect ends. This is a ranged touch attack with double range (ie. 40', with an additional 10' range at 3HD and every 2HD thereafter), that causes 1d6 dexterity damage. A foe who has had their dexterity reduced to half its standard value or less is considered to be under the sway of one of the Basilisk's Stone Eye effects for the purpose of overlapping effects (see below).
  
  At 8HD, the effect increases to 2d4 dexterity damage.
  
  At 14HD, the effect increases to 3d3 dexterity damage.

Foes who fail their saving throws and fall under the effect of two different Stone Eye effects are petrified until one or more of the effects end.

Eight Clawed: A Basilisk, from first level onward, is capable of using its eight broad claws to keep itself firmly in place. A Basilisk cannot be moved from its current location against its will or knocked prone unless it is helpless. Further, the Basilisk may make one reroll a round in the event of failed balance checks, climb checks, attempts to move through difficult environments (such as grease or sheer ice) or it may force another attack roll in the event of terrain hazards like caltrops.

Tail Smash: Basilisks are described as having tails as long as the rest of their bodies, and starting at second level, can employ their tails in combat to dash petrified enemies to pieces. The Basilisk can, as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, deliver a tail smash dealing 1d8 + 2x Str mod damage. This requires an attack roll (At a -5 penalty as normal for non-primary natural attacks) but successful hits penetrate hardness.

In addition, the second level Basilisk gains a limited degree of fine manipulation with its prehensile tail, allowing it to carry one object, open simple doors, pull levers and the like. It cannot, however, perform complex manipulations such as those needed to wield weapons or pick an item out of a backpack.

Slow Metabolism: Starting at second level, the sluggish metabolism of the Basilisk's physique begins to show its effects. In the event of a failed fortitude saving throw that would lead to the Basilisk being affected by a condition or spell (such as poison, disease, being fatigued, the paralysis of Ghoul Touch, etc.), the onset of the effect is delayed until the end of the Basilisk's next turn. However, the effect duration is not extended (ie. the time the effect would end is unchanged), so an effect that would last only one round may well be avoided. Effects that do damage or that have no duration are unaffected.

Geomorphic Gaze: At third level, the Basilisk gains a technique that allows it to turn its petrifying gaze on the organic matter in the environment. Cobwebs, insects, leaves, grass, pollen, dust and even soil are composed at least partially of material that is or was once alive, and can be turned to hard stone at the Basilisk's will. The Basilisk may now do any of the following as a standard action:

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• The Basilisk may stir up dust, leaves, soil and/or detritus with its claws, tail or snout and then petrify the material into a fused, cloudy mass of uneven, jagged and/or crumbling terrain. The Basilisk may create a 5' square of difficult terrain within its range of influence (see below). For every 3HD it has, the Basilisk may affect an additional 5' square, provided all affected squares are adjacent to one another and within the Basilisk's range of influence.
  
  .
• The Basilisk may use this technique to turn any 5' patch of difficult terrain into an obstacle. A foe cannot end its turn on an obstacle. As such, foes who cannot pay the cost to both cross the obstacle (2 squares of movement) and to move into the square on the other side cannot pass the obstacle. These obstacles can provide cover, but only for creatures within 30' of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if they are closer to the obstacle than the target.
  
  At 10HD, the Basilisk can create one obstacle as it finishes creating a patch difficult terrain, as described above.
  
  .
• The Basilisk can seal a closed door shut, turning the material or the dust covering it to stone and effectively fusing it to the frame. This changes any wood door to stone and effectively makes it stuck shut. The DC to budge the door is increased by double the Basilisk's con bonus.
  
  .
• The Basilisk can turn a patch of grass to a mess of needle-like stone. Treat the converted area (Up to one 5' square plus one additional 5' square per 3HD of the Basilisk may be affected at a time.) as being covered in caltrops.
  
  .
• The Basilisk may turn the foliage overhead into paper thin stones that summarily fall due to their weight, raining on any unfortunate foes below. Up to one square plus another square per 3HD of the basilisk may be targeted, provided there is green foliage overhead and each square is adjacent to the others. Each foe in the target area must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con mod) or take 1d6 slashing/piercing damage per 3HD of the Basilisk. Regardless of the save, affected squares are thereafter treated as being covered in caltrops.
  
  .
• The Basilisk may solidify the bonds of an entangled individual, provided the source of the entanglement is at least partially organic (rope, web and tanglefoot bags are, but chain would not be). This provokes no save. Turning the bonds to stone immobilizes the entangled individual, who is then forced to make a DC 20 strength check or a DC 25 escape artist check to free themselves to move once more. Making the check successfully will end the entanglement effect, though it will not prevent further entanglement from the same source.
  
  .
• The Basilisk can, alternately, turn a patch of organic (living or dead) terrain or objects to fragile stone. This can target effects such as rope, moss, vines, robe bridges, web, net and some glue, and simply turns the objects to difficult terrain that breaks and disappears as individuals move over it. Creatures climbing on the material when it changes to stone must make a reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con) or fall, but are thereafter able to continue climbing as the material crumbles beneath them. Secondary effects of the terrain (such as web's ability to entangle) end when they change to stone. Up to one 5' square plus one additional 5' square per 3HD of the Basilisk may be affected at a time.

The Basilisk's area of influence for Geomorphic Gaze is limited to a 20' range, with an additional 5' range at 6HD and every 3HD thereafter. Squares outside of the Basilisk's line of sight may not be affected.

Deliberate Advance: The third level Basilisk is instinctively aware that it is slower and more sluggish than those around it, and is capable of using its eight powerful legs to ensure that no movement is wasted. The Basilisk now ignores difficult terrain, cannot be checked (For example, is not impeded when moving against a powerful headwind) and always retains at least half its movement (10' movement) at any time it isn't helpless.

Basilisk Subspecies: At fourth level, the Basilisk is nearly fully mature and adopts a subspecies trait. Pick one from the list below:

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• Clutch Basilisk - The Basilisk gains a climb speed of 15'.
  
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• Skein Basilisk - The Basilisk gains a swim speed of 15' and becomes amphibious.
  
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• Longtail Basilisk - The Basilisk gains a secondary natural attack using its tail, dealing 1d6 + ½ Str mod damage.
  
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• Farseer Basilisk - The Basilisk ignores up to 25% miss chance on its gaze attacks for any opponent it can at least partially see (subtract 25% from the existing miss chance, so a 75% miss chance would become 50%).
  
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• Abyssal Basilisk - The Basilisk gains either +2 Int or +2 Cha, as well as the ability to speak Abyssal.

Torpid Nature: At fourth level, the naturally slow pace of the Basilisk's mindset and physiology extends beyond purely physical afflictions. Treat this as Slow Metabolism, as described above, but it now extends to effects that would be applied from failed Will and Reflex saves in addition to failed Fortitude saves.

Petrifying Eye At fifth level, the Basilisk is much more capable at turning enemies to stone with its gaze. Choose one ability from the list below. This choice is made once, giving you an ability that is used in the same manner as the Stone Eye abilities, with the same range value and ability to petrify foes who are affected by two or more effects at once:

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• Granite Gaze - The target is turned to stone for several long seconds, leaving them reeling and unable to defend themselves. On a failed fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con), the target is dazed for 1 round per 2HD of the Basilisk.
  
  .
• Lithic Stare - The gaze of the basilisk is focused on a particular body part, solidifying it unless the victim can wrench the body part away and cover the affected body part. Provided the target fails their reflex save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con) the Basilisk may choose a particular action type (Move or Standard) and forbid actions of that type for 1 round per 2HD of the Basilisk. The victim may voluntarily opt to break the effect and free their limb as a full round action, taking 2d6 damage for every round remaining in the duration as a consequence.
  
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• Crushing Glower - The victim is turned to stone as they move, their petrified flesh literally cracking and splitting apart as momentum, weight and gravity take their toll. Creatures must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con) or watch their bodies literally break apart. The affected target suffers 1d3 Strength damage and 1d3 Constitution damage, and loses the benefit of any DR or hardness for 1 round per 2HD of the Basilisk. (only the DR/Hardness loss counts for the purpose of effect stacking towards petrifaction). The attribute damage done increases to 1d6 at 10 HD and 1d10 at 20 HD.

Finally, at 10 HD, the Basilisk may, as a swift action, activate its true gaze attack. This ability may be used once a day per 6 HD, and lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Basilisk's Charisma modifier. For the duration, every foe in the Basilisk's line of sight must attempt a DC (10 + ½ Basilisk's HD + Basilisk's Con mod) Fort save at the start of each of their turns or be turned to stone permanently.

Comments

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The Basilisk was a tricky critter. It's really a one trick pony, not even being overwhelmingly good at combat like other 'can't talk, can't perform fine manipulation' creatures. It's slow, sluggish (in flavor and in stats), doesn't have a lot of movement going for it, and really only has the gaze attack.

In my design, I wanted to give it options right from the get-go, because I like options and I thought there were a number of ways one could approach petrifaction (and I didn't like the medusa's method, which would get old fast). Thing is, when I got down to it, the effects tended to overlap. If you apply fatigued & slow together, then both are halving enemy movement. It's just awkward...

So I turned that to my advantage. The gaze abilities are all effects of petrifaction, and if they overlap, the enemy is (temporarily) petrified and out of combat.

From there, I added the Geomorphic Gaze ability for some battlefield control (and because I really like the mental image of a Basilisk nestled comfortably in a birdsong-less patch of forest that has been largely turned to stone) and versatility to go with the effects of the gaze. I think it really helps suit the flavor of the Basilisk as the creature who waits for enemies to come to them, and then ****s them up.

Eight Clawed, Deliberate Advance, Slow Metabolism, Torpid Nature and the high hit-die size are all intended to work with the base flavor, of which there was relatively little. Its slow by nature, but that almost works to its advantage, as opposed to being a weakness.

Yes, I did go against my usual rule of having a full BAB and strength bonuses together, but the Basilisk doesn't have a lot going for it in terms of raw combat power, having only the one natural attack and no abilities that can really be used in conjunction with attack options (barring the true gaze attack gained at 10HD). I figured it trades off enough in terms of lacking speech & fine manipulation that it could stand to have a decent bite, for those enemies where petrifaction won't be an option.

Finally, just tell me that isn't an awesome picture. Dare you.

Changelog

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• Tail smash tweaked (just works around hardness)
• Geomorphic Gaze tweaked (From full round to standard action. Scaling changed to affect 1 additional 5' square per 3 HD (From +1 at 4th level and every 4HD thereafter). Obstacle wording fixed. Range now based off Strength mod, instead of 10' + 5' at 5HD and every 5HD thereafter.
• Changes to Stone Eye and Petrifying Eye to come later, when I figure out how to approach it.

Jan 11, 2011:

• Stone Eye changed to clarify (several times) that you only fire one effect at a time.
• Sedimentary Glancing renamed to Glancing Glaze, and given a buff at 8HD that lets you halve duration and make it exhaust instead.
• Heavy Glare no longer imposes slow, but comes close, halving enemy movement & imposing the same penalties to attacks, AC and reflex saves. It doesn't force enemies to choose between move and standard actions though - to do that, again, you've got an option at 8HD that lets you halve the duration to make it slow instead.
• Craggy Look damage dice changed. Does more damage early, and scales slower (1d6 at 1st, 2d4 at 8th, 3d3 at 14th). I also added the bit about 1/2 dexterity being counted as a stone eye condition to the ability text, which made it easy to tidy up a lot of text elsewhere.
• Text of stone eye cleaned up & simplified a lot.
• Geomorphic Gaze given a buff rangewise (from 10 + 5 per point of strength mod to 25' + 5' at 6HD and every 3HD thereafter).
• Geomorphic Gaze now lets you do the difficult terrain + one obstacle in the same action at 10HD.
• Added 5 additional abilities to geomorphic gaze:
  
  • Seal a door shut? Check.
  • Turn grass to caltrops? Check.
  • Turn leaves on the trees into a rain of knifelike stones? Check.
  • Turn entangling rope/web/tanglefoot goop into stone? Check.
  • Turn rope/web/glue/moss/vines to fragile stone? Check.
• Tidied up some text in Petrifying Eye.
• Fixed erroneous mention of dexterity in Crushing Glower.

February 03, 2011:

• Tail smash damage lowered by 1d8, but it now just ignores hardness (changed from 'always does at least minimum damage on a successful hit, regardless of hardness').
• Added the Abyssal subspecies, giving the Basilisk a bit of Int or Cha, and the ability to speak Infernal.
• Granite Gaze dazes now (used to stun)
• Breaking Lithic Stare's effect now requires a full round action.
• A couple of wording changes that don't affect mechanics.

[Betropper]

Any reply on the Gibbering mouther and the Contracting Lycanthropy entry?

If not I'll get to work on another monster.

[Hyudra]

I already went through Gibbering and it's done to my satisfaction, IIRC. Can't add any more, sorry.

Remember to call dibs on any creatures you're working on.

I'm thinking I may restart this thread so we can add creatures to the list, with MagicYop gone.

[The Antigamer]

I already went through Gibbering and it's done to my satisfaction, IIRC. Can't add any more, sorry.

Remember to call dibs on any creatures you're working on.

I'm thinking I may restart this thread so we can add creatures to the list, with MagicYop gone.

I think that might be a good plan. I can go through and table up new additions tonight if you want.

[Hyudra]

I think that might be a good plan. I can go through and table up new additions tonight if you want.

That would be helpful. I'll see about starting the new thread tonight.

[Mystic Muse]

How long is Magicypop gone for? I didn't see the post or explanation or whatever.

[NineThePuma]

IRL is kicking the crap out of him, according to his sig.

[Mystic Muse]

IRL is kicking the crap out of him, according to his sig.

Ah. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Hyudra]

Moving to a new thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182724

This thread is now unofficially locked - any further posts on the homebrew monster classes should take place in the new thread. This one will be allowed to drop off the front page.

We're doing this largely because MagicYop is away and we're unable to add or edit the posts at the head of the thread to submit new monsters or change details. It's been discussed with others in a leadership role in this thread and agreed to be a good idea.

Edit: To get the new thread off the ground, I'm encouraging people to submit new monsters and remind us council members (and others) about monsters needing critiques or monsters that are nearly done & awaiting final approval.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[AustontheGreat1]

• Please don't center creature images/names.
• Oh, man, a longish class (though it's the first on the list, here, it's the last one I critiqued, since I was working backward). Let's see...
• Skills:
  
  • "*New skill described on p.20 ToB" - Forgive me, but I see no *, or ability this might reference. Martial Lore?
  • Handle Animal seems out of place.
  • Knowledge (nature) seems kind of out of place.
• Full BAB + Strength bonuses seems rather over the top, at a glance. The de-facto rule, now, tends to be one or the other (old classes may ignore this rule, but we shouldn't use them as a measuring stick.)
• Why is the armor bonus not the standard Con mod, or 1+Con mod?
• What happens if your suit of armor gets ruined? Say, by a rust monster?
• The rebuking and commanding of living spells, hrmm...
  
  • "(ten times per day for a typical ragewalker)" what is this? What are we gauging by? I mean, assuming you're 1st level, 18 points in Cha, you're only capable of doing such 7 times a day, so you're wrong... but this doesn't need to be said, anyways.
  • Rebuking & commanding living spells as a cleric of half your HD means you probably won't be able to rebuke/command any. Turn undead (and this ability, by extension) tends to decline severely in usefulness as you gain levels, requiring optimization to keep it viable in mid to high levels. Having it be cut in half means it won't be useful to a player at early, mid or late levels. This ability probably deserves an entry of its own, and fine tuning.
• Ability Score Bonuses:
  
  • I restate what I covered earlier. Full BAB plus strength bonuses are too good, trumping most other classes in this same thread in raw numbers.
  • You probably don't need half the ability score bonuses you listed, anyways. As is, the creatures that should get ability score bonuses are those who are sacrificing it thematically (ie. brutes with low BAB and strength bonuses, who thereby hit less often but hit harder), or those who lack fine manipulation, proficiencies and/or speech, and thus need the raw stats to make their natural tools that much more viable. Ragewalker is a humanoid with a lot going for it to begin with, so there's no need for as many stat bonuses as you've included.
• Quick Healing:
  
  • "The amount of healing each round increases by for every 4 HD the ragewalker gains after the first" - This would initially be read as Fast Healing 2 at 5HD (4 HD after the first {HD}). Clarify? Also, I don't like the use of the word 'gains', either, because it doesn't apply retroactively, RAW.
• Blood Frenzy:
  
  • How often can it be used? Duration?
  • This may need to be toned down. You've already got a flat out ridiculous movement speed, you're adding to that, and gaining notable stat bonuses.
• Versatile Blade Magic:
  
  • RAW, it gives you too much. Let's say that at level 6, I'm a Ragewalker with 18 base CHA, +2 from an item, +3 from stats, +1 from levels. That gives me 7 uses of the metamagic of my choice (assuming I don't go for quicken or amplify), enough to get ~2 uses per encounter in a 4 encounter day (Well, 2 per encounter for 3 encounters, 1 for a single encounter).
  • Some of the options don't really apply to your SLAs. Widen doesn't apply to any of your SLAs, IIRC. Amplify doesn't offer much either (Just cause fear?).
  • Probably needs to be toned down in # per day. Doing so is likely to involve tying it to something other than your CHA, which makes sense anyways, considering the stacking you're offering.
• Living Spell Companion:
  
  • I'm not terribly familiar with living spells, so I'm looking over this, seeing no major faults, and encouraging others who are better versed in such to pay extra attention to it.
  • You talk about the ragewalker rebuking living spells for a second time (the first time appearing under the grafted armor).
• Induce Blood Frenzy:
  
  • I'd make it so that if you save, you're immune for 24 hours.
• Weapon Cloud:
  
  • It affects allies? I can see this being a problem in a cramped dungeon.
  • "1d6 for every 4 HD" - what type of damage? Every 4HD of the creature? Or the Ragewalker? Word this better.
  • "This damage is slashing and piercing and damage reduction applies normally." - Ah, here's the damage type. Why not just say '1d6 slashing/piercing damage for every 4 HD of the Ragewalker.'?
  • "creatures adjacent to the Ragewalker must succeed on a successful reflex save each round" -- This sounds like it would bog down combat. It's a lot of extra saving throws & damage rolls & damage tracking that's liable to come up in pretty much every encounter the ragewalker participates in from 10th level on. (That's ~133 encounters if you go from 10th to 20th level).
• Repel Missiles:
  
  • "whenever the Ragewalker is the target of a ranged attack from a weapon, but not attacks that result from a spell (such as fireball or lightning bolt)," -- I would restructure this to "whenever the Ragewalker is the target of a ranged attack from a weapon (but not attacks that result from a spell, such as a fireball or lightning bolt)", as it reads awkwardly otherwise.
• Awaken Magic:
  
  • I this boiling down to the party's wizard offering up spells to turn into awakened spells for longer durations (perhaps) or just more raw power for their buck.
  • I'm certain there's countless ways to abuse this.
• Blade Storm Master:
  
  • So... at 20th level, with a +12 Cha bonus, I've got 240 points... which essentially translates to +240 hitpoints? That seems a bit much.

• Please don't center your creature images/names. Looks awkward on some monitor setups (I have two 1920x1080 monitors side by side, so I have all the text on one page, and the image is split between the two monitors).
• Prerequisites:
  
  • Boring. Too easy to enter the class. Not terribly flavorful. Doesn't let people who decide (late) that they want to enter the class do so unless they revise their background, which is weird. Advise more flexible, interesting, challenging prereqs.
• Skills: Some elementals kind of get shafted. Appraise? Swim?
• Does water elemental even need ranks in swim? He's got swim movement.
• Proficiencies:
  
  • Don't see why they get weapon and armor proficiencies, if their elemental parents don't... I'm a Wyvern that's the spawn of a wyvern and an air elemental... and now I can wear armor? Does not compute.
• Elemental Body:
  
  • Air elemental - gets terrific bonuses. Immunity, damage resistance, flight. Question though - it seems odd that creatures that would be spawned from air elemental parents, which would already have flight, kind of don't get much out of this. A half-air elemental pegasus gets little bonus, even if it makes a lot of sense, heritage wise.
  • Earth elemental - Less terrific bonuses. Acid immunity (which comes up arguably the least of the core elemental damages), and a burrow speed, which is ok but kind of meh. (and potentially gamebreaking if you're getting it at level 2, see other burrowing creatures).
  • Fire - Gets terrific bonuses. I just don't really understand why it moves so fast (80' land speed at 20th level?). Doesn't make a lot of sense.
  • Water kind of gets screwed. Immunity to cold, which isn't common (but isn't uncommon), and a swim speed... which is kind of meh, since it's only going to come up in maybe one encounter a level.
• Elemental Power:
  
  • Force of Nature: Seems kind of detrimental to the air elemental. It basically prevents you from full attacking foes. Make it optional?
  • Force of Nature: DC needs fixing. DC = 10 = Damage dealt? Think you meant 10 + Damage dealt.
  • Stability: Kind of sucks. Very niche benefit that's rarely going to come up.
  • Burn: Not as bad as the other three, but it's... not a lot. I'm sure it adds up, but it doesn't really wow.
  • Flowing Form: See Stability, above. Niche benefit that won't come up nearly as often as air & fire's Elemental Power effects.
• Elemental Magic:
  
  • Under air, 'Air Walk' is kind of lame when you already have flight.
  • No need for "minimum 1" for the 1st ability in each table... it's granted with the 2nd level of the class, so you naturally have 2HD already.
  • Can't help but feel Fire gets the short end of the stick, here. Lots of evocation effects, delivering damage of the most resisted type.

Ragewalker

• Alright, image un-centered. Sorry about that.
  
• Okay, added "*" to martial lore.
  
• Handle Animal and Knowledge (Nature) are both on the list simply because it is a fey and even though it is a rage-filled creature of war, it still has a deep connection to the natural world. I think they should be there. Know.(Nature) mostly, and even fighters get Handle Animal so that they can train any animal they are using such as war beasts and mounts and stuff. Though I trust your advice. If you give me any reason to remove them I will.
  
• BAB has been reduced to Cleric BAB (I think that's 2/3, but correct me if I'm wrong.)
  
• The grafted armor ability was originally extremely complicated ability that involved incorporating armor the ragewalker found into his armor as well as transferring magic armor into it. I believe it was Gorgon who suggested that I change it to copy the Iron Golem's armor ability.
  
• I will add a note saying that the armor is immune to rusting, and heals damage slowly over time.
  
• The "(ten times per day for a typical ragewalker)" was left over when the ability was copied from the original Ragewalker. I apologize and I will remove it. Origianally I was told that the ability shouldn't be the only ability granted at any level so I spliced into the other ability. Rebuking living spells is a minor ability at best so I will change it to "as a cleric of a level equal to you HD."
  
• I agree, the ability increses are over the top. I thing that I should remove the strength increases altogether and give it bonuses to charisma at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter. So a total of +4 Charisma, granted over levels 3, 6, 9, 12. Sound better?
  
• Quick Healing edited a little. Tried to clear the stuff you didn't like.
  
• Originally I had the Ragewalker gaining maneuvers with a progression similar to a warblade. I was told that that wasn't acceptable, and understandably. So originally that was going to be stance that the Ragewalker gained access to. I still need to change it. How about it last a number of rounds equal to either the ragewalker's charisma score or constitution score; and usable 1/day for every 5 HD?
  
• How about I reduce it to a flat 3/day as usual for the Metamagic Spell-like Ability feats. Also, Amplify could be applied to Cause Fear, Inflict Light Wounds, or Blade Barrier. Widen could be used to modify Cause Fear or Globe of Invulnerability. You didn't specify widen but it can modify many of them either.
  
• Sorry, Turning living spells ability was originally meant to be part of this ability, I don't know how it wound up under grafted armor.
  
• Induce Blood Frenzy altered as specified.
  
• Weapon cloud has some problems. What if I just state that the Ragewalker can control the the swirling blades enough to make them pass harmlessly around allies? Specified that it's the Ragewalker's HD. How should I reduce the rolls and complication involved.
  
• I knew this ability was overpowered when I put it down. I was hoping to get help making it acceptable. I can't recall who, but I remember someone suggesting that the Ragewalker shouldn't immediately gain control of the living spell. How about I change it so that the living spell is created under the control of the original caster of the spell, and the Ragewalker may then attempt to take control via its Rebuking and Commanding ability. Or to fix the problem of a party wizard simply giving up the spell to make a living spell, the Living Spell is created under no ones command; adding the possibility of creating a new foe. Any of those suggestions sound acceptable?
  
• I see, how would you suggest I fix the capstone ability then?

Okay, gotta run. I'll get to the Half-Elemental soon.

[Gorgondantess]

Psst- Check the post above you. This thread is unofficially closed.