D&D-Modified Thrallherd

[Lateral]

Would it be balanced if I were to replace the Thrallherd's Leadership ability (for a campaign that bans Leadership, obviously) for both of its lost caster levels back? Too much in return? Not enough? Also, should I change any class features? Move 'em around? Add new ones? Thanks!

[gkathellar]

It would be fine. Thrallherd leadership is broken like nobody's business.

[Fizban]

Of course, Thrallherd Leadership is the only reason to take Thrallherd. But then, if you keep full spellcasting, there's no reason not to take it either. So it becomes just another full-spellcasting PrC. That seems fine.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Of course, Thrallherd Leadership is the only reason to take Thrallherd. But then, if you keep full spellcasting, there's no reason not to take it either. So it becomes just another full-spellcasting PrC. That seems fine.

The PP conservation on dominate and charm are certainly attractive

[thubby]

The PP conservation on dominate and charm are certainly attractive

at the cost of bonus feats?

[Lateral]

Well, without Thrallherd and Twofold Master, it needs a new scaling ability and a new capstone. What can I do for those?

[gkathellar]

Maybe make Psionic Charm/Dominate work on creatures with immunity to mind-affecting powers for the capstone, or something ridiculous like that?

[Lateral]

Hmmm.... yeah, what if I moved psionic charm, dominate, greater dominate, and superior dominate one level earlier (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th), gave it the ability to... manifest at reduced cost 3/day instead of 1/day and the ability to use dominate and charm on normally-immune things as a capstone? Too much?

[Te'Shen]

This would more or less be my suggestion in a leadership-less campaign. I apologize if this unnecessary at this point, Lateral.

Spoiler

Show

The (Real) Mindbender

Hit Die: d4.
Requirements

To qualify to become a mindbender, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks.
Feat: Inquisitor.
Psionics: Manifester level 5th and able to manifest mindlink.

Class Skills
The thrallherd’s class skills are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Powers Known

1st|

+0

|

+0

|

+0

|

+2

|Telepathy|-

2nd|

+1

|

+0

|

+0

|

+3

|Psionic Charm|+1 level of existing manifesting class

3rd|

+1

|

+1

|

+1

|

+3

|Manipulator|+1 level of existing manifesting class

4th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Psionic Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

5th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Manipulator|+1 level of existing manifesting class

6th|

+3

|

+2

|

+2

|

+5

|Greater Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

7th|

+3

|

+2

|

+2

|

+5

|Manipulator|+1 level of existing manifesting class

8th|

+4

|

+2

|

+2

|

+6

|Superior Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

9th|

+4

|

+3

|

+3

|

+6

|Manipulator|+1 level of existing manifesting class

10th|

+5

|

+3

|

+3

|

+7

|Overwhelming Dominate |+1 level of existing manifesting class
[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Mindbenders gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Powers Known
At every level from 2nd through 10th, a mindbender gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of mindbender to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

If a character had more than one manifesting class before she became a mindbender, she must decide to which class she adds the new level of mindbender for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level.

Telepathy
At 1st level, a mindbender can communicate telepathically with any other creature that has a language within 20 feet + an additional 10 feet per mindbender level. You can address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

Psionic Charm (Ex)
At 2nd level, a mindbender adds psionic charm to her powers known (if she doesn’t already know it). Once per day, she can manifest psionic charm at a reduced power point cost. The cost of psionic charm is reduced by the mindbender’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point. The effect of this power is still restricted by the mindbender’s manifester level.

Manipulator
At 3rd level, the mindbender gains a +2 bonus to her choice of bluff, diplomacy, intimidate or sense motive skill checks. At every 2 levels thereafter, she gains an additional +2 bonus that can either be applied to
the same skill, or to another skill on the list. For example, a 7th level mindbender could have a +6 bonus to just diplomacy, or a +2 bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate, or a +2 bonus to bluff and a +4 bonus to
diplomacy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed.

Psionic Dominate (Ex)
At 4th level, a mindbender adds psionic dominate to her powers known (if she doesn’t already know it) Once per day, she can manifest psionic dominate at a reduced power point cost. The cost of psionic dominate is reduced by the mindbender’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point. The effect of this power is still restricted by the mindbender’s manifester level.

Greater Dominate (Ex)
At 6th level and higher, a mindbender does not have to pay 2 additional power points when she augments psionic dominate to affect animals, fey, giants, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids. This reduced point cost does not increase the save DC of the power as if she had spent the additional power points.

Superior Dominate (Ex)
At 8th level, a mindbender does not have to pay 4 additional power points when she augments psionic dominate to affect aberrations, dragons, elementals, and outsiders (in addition to the creature types mentioned in the greater dominate ability). This reduced point cost does not increase the save DC of the power as if she had spent the additional power points.

Overwhelming Dominate (Ex)
At 10th level, a mindbender may attempt to control a mind normally immune to telepathic intrusion. Once per day, a mindbender may expend his psionic focus and manifest a power with the mind affecting descriptor as if it did not have that descriptor.

I'd leave the first level of manifesting out because most psionic prcs do. It's good design in my eyes. More Arcane and Divine prcs should probably copy that...

Yes I borrowed Manipulator (Alluring Voice) from the Dreamscarred Press Pathfinder-ized Thrallherd and Telepathy from Mindbender/Mind's Eye Articles. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

[Lateral]

The campaign fell through, but I might use this in a different campaign. Thanks!

Overwhelming Dominate seems a little... underwhelming, though, for a capstone. Maybe if we removed the 1/day limit, but made it so that it took extra power points or something. Also, this may or may not be thread necromancy.

[Te'Shen]

The campaign fell through, but I might use this in a different campaign. Thanks!

Overwhelming Dominate seems a little... underwhelming, though, for a capstone. Maybe if we removed the 1/day limit, but made it so that it took extra power points or something. Also, this may or may not be thread necromancy.

Sorry to hear that...

As for the the once a day... 3 times a day would be fine, and possibly not used if the creature actually saves. I don't think extra power points are necessarily the way to go. I know augments allow for additional/expanded creature types, but metapsionics take focus, and something about mental immune creatures taking a different kind of extra effort seems to appeal/fit to me. Kind of a transdimensional spell thing to me I guess...

A second use of the dominate and charm would be nifty pre-capstone... and I honestly wanted to see some sort of mind read ability in there like the other mindbender prc, but... I just don't know if it would overblow the class.

Maybe...

Spoiler

Show

The (Real) Mindbender

Hit Die: d4.
Requirements

To qualify to become a mindbender, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks.
Feat: Inquisitor.
Psionics: Manifester level 5th and able to manifest mindlink.

Class Skills
The thrallherd’s class skills are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Powers Known

1st|

+0

|

+0

|

+0

|

+2

|Telepathic Speech|-

2nd|

+1

|

+0

|

+0

|

+3

|Psionic Charm|+1 level of existing manifesting class

3rd|

+1

|

+1

|

+1

|

+3

|Read Thoughts|+1 level of existing manifesting class

4th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Psionic Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

5th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Psionic Charm 2/day|+1 level of existing manifesting class

6th|

+3

|

+2

|

+2

|

+5

|Greater Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

7th|

+3

|

+2

|

+2

|

+5

|Psionic Dominate 2/day |+1 level of existing manifesting class

8th|

+4

|

+2

|

+2

|

+6

|Superior Dominate|+1 level of existing manifesting class

9th|

+4

|

+3

|

+3

|

+6

|Mutable Minion|+1 level of existing manifesting class

10th|

+5

|

+3

|

+3

|

+7

|Overwhelming Dominate |+1 level of existing manifesting class
[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Mindbenders gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Powers Known
At every level from 2nd through 10th, a mindbender gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of mindbender to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

If a character had more than one manifesting class before she became a mindbender, she must decide to which class she adds the new level of mindbender for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level.

Telepathic Speech
At 1st level, a mindbender can communicate telepathically with any other creature that has a language within 20 feet + an additional 10 feet per mindbender level. You can address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

Psionic Charm (Ex)
At 2nd level, a mindbender adds psionic charm to her powers known (if she doesn’t already know it). Once per day, she can manifest psionic charm at a reduced power point cost. The cost of psionic charm is reduced by the mindbender’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point. The effect of this power is still restricted by the mindbender’s manifester level.

At 5th level, a mindbender may manifest psionic charm at a reduced power point cost twice per day.

Read Thoughts
At 3rd level, a mindbender who knows the read thoughts power may change the range to a 30' radius rather than a 60' cone. In addition, he may add the following augments to the power.

1. For every additional power point you spend, this power’s range and the radius of its area increases by 5 feet.
2. If you spend 2 additional power points, this power’s maximum duration increases to 10 minutes/level.

The feature has no effect until the mindbender learns the read thoughts power.

Psionic Dominate (Ex)
At 4th level, a mindbender adds psionic dominate to her powers known (if she doesn’t already know it) Once per day, she can manifest psionic dominate at a reduced power point cost. The cost of psionic dominate is reduced by the mindbender’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point. The effect of this power is still restricted by the mindbender’s manifester level.

At 7th level, a mindbender can manifest psionic dominate at a reduced power point cost twice per day.

Greater Dominate (Ex)
At 6th level and higher, a mindbender does not have to pay 2 additional power points when she augments psionic dominate to affect animals, fey, giants, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids. This reduced point cost does not increase the save DC of the power as if she had spent the additional power points.

Superior Dominate (Ex)
At 8th level, a mindbender does not have to pay 4 additional power points when she augments psionic dominate to affect aberrations, dragons, elementals, and outsiders (in addition to the creature types mentioned in the greater dominate ability). This reduced point cost does not increase the save DC of the power as if she had spent the additional power points.

Mutable Minion
At 9th level, a mindbender does not have to pay the XP cost when manifesting psychic reformation on a target who is currently under the effects of his psionic dominate power.

Overwhelming Dominate (Ex)
At 10th level, a mindbender may attempt to control a mind normally immune to telepathic intrusion. Three times per day, a mindbender may expend his psionic focus and manifest a power with the mind affecting descriptor as if it did not have that descriptor. If the target successfully saves against the power, the ability is not expended.

As for necromancy... the thread is only about two weeks old.