The New Fighter- Still the Feat Boy, But Better

[ShiningStarling]

The Fighter

Hit Points: d10
Skills: (4+Int. Mod.) * (3 + level)
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope

{table]lvl.|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Bonus Feat, Weapon Attunement, Stylistic Learning
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Bonus Feat
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Fighting Spirit, Imposing Skill, Second Weapon Attunement
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat, Field Controller
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Elusive Attack, Improved Weapon Attunement
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Extended Charge
7|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Stylistic Learning
8|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Improved Field Controller
9|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Armor Specialization, Counter Attack
10|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat, Finer Weapon Attunement
11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Armor Attunement, Mettle
12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat, Shift Charge
13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Stylistic Learning
14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Greater Weapon Attunement, Pounce
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat, Overpowering Attack
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Greater Armor Attunement
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Greater Shift Charge
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6| Greater Mettle
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Weapon Apotheosis[/table]

Bonus Feats: These are drawn from the Fighter bonus feat list, at 1st level, then at every even level.

Weapon Attunement: (Ex) At 1st level, the Fighter chooses a weapon with which he is proficient. At the level he becomes applicable for any feat specifically for that weapon (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus,Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery, and Weapon Supremacy) he gains it automatically.For example, at this level, he gains Weapon Focus for the secondary weapon, at 4th level, he gains Weapon Specialization with it, and so forth.

Stylistic Learning: (Ex) At 1st level, you select a style from the following list, and at appropriate level you gain certain benefits based on that chosen style and feats you have taken relating to it. The styles are Archery, Power Assailant, Two Weapon, Dueling, Mounted, and Spring Attacker.
Archery: At 1st level, if you select the Archery style, you gain Point Blank Shot as a bonus feat. At 7th level , if you have taken the Manyshot feat, Your penalties when using multiple arrows are halved. At 13th level, If you have taken Improved Precise Shot, the miss chance gained by opponents you are shooting at is reduced to 25%.
Power Assailant: At 1st level, if you select the Power Assailant style, then you gain Power Attack as a bonus feat. You must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At 7th level, if you have taken the Cleave feat, you gain a plus 1 bonus to hit and damage on all Cleave or Great Cleave attacks. You may also take 5-foot steps in between Cleave or Great Cleave attacks, starting at 7th level. At 13th level, if you have taken the Great Cleave feat, you may make a full attack against the opponent to be last in you Great Cleave chain, that is, the first one to not die. If he dies, you may not continue your Great Cleaving based on his death.
Two Weapon: At 1st level, if you select the Two Weapon style, you gain Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat. You must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At 7th level, if you have taken Improved Two Weapon Fighting, each hand’s penalty when fighting with two weapons is reduced by one, to a minimum of 0. At 13th level, if you have taken Greater Two Weapon Fighting, each hands penalties are reduced by another one, stacking with the previous bonus above, to a minimum of 0.
Mounted: At 1st level, if you select the Mounted style, you gain Mounted Combat as a bonus feat. You must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At 7th level, if you have taken the Ride By Attack feat, you and your mount don’t provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone threatening any part of you charges path. At 13th level, if you have taken the Spirited Charge feat, any opponent you make a Spirited Charge against is automatically flat-footed, and the attack deals triple damage instead (or quadruple for a lance).
Spring Attacker: At 1st level, if you select the Spring Attacker style, you gain Dodge as a bonus feat. You must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At 7th level, if you have taken the Spring Attack feat, your movement does not provoke any attacks of opportunity while springing. At 13th level, if you have taken the Bounding Assault feat, your target(s) are caught flat-footed by your Spring Attack(s).
Dueling: At 1st level, you gain Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. At 7th level, you may apply your Dex bonus to damage when using a Finessable Weapon. At 13th level, you gain Sneak Attack with Finessable weapons at a rate of 1d6 per 3 Fighter levels.

Fighting Spirit: (Ex) At 3rd level, The Fighter gains his Strength modifier to Will saves, in addition to Wisdom.

Imposing Skill: (Ex) At 3rd level, The Fighter gains half his Fighter level on Intimidate and Diplomacy checks.

Second Weapon Attunement: (Ex) Every good Fighter knows enough to train with their backup weapon. At 3rd level, the Fighter chooses a weapon with which he is proficient. At the level he becomes applicable for any feat specifically for that weapon (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus,Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery, and Weapon Supremacy) plus 2 he gains it automatically. For example, at this level, he gains Weapon Focus for the secondary weapon, at 6th level, he gains Weapon Specialization with it, and so forth.

Field Controller: (Ex) At 4th level, the Fighter gains Improved Feint when using an Attuned weapon. He also gains one of the following regardless of prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, or Improved Sunder.

Improved Weapon Attunement: (Ex) At 5th level, Your damage with your 1st attuned weapon goes up one die size.

Elusive Attack: (Ex) At 5th level, you gain this ability, as in the PHII, but without the loss of bonus feat.

Extended Charge: (Ex) At 6th level, your charges may be of twice the normal length, though the minimum distance remains the same.

Improved Field Controller: (Ex) At 8th level, with the Field Controller feat you selected at 4th level, you gain a plus 2 bonus on checks for that feat.

Counter Attack: (Ex) At 9th level, you gain this ability, as in the PHII, but without the loss of bonus feat.

Armor Specialization: The Fighter gains this as a bonus feat at 9th level.

Finer Weapon Attunement: (Ex) At 10th level, with the Weapon you chose to attune with 1st, you may use Combat Reflexes to make an AoO 1 more time than your Dex normally allows (if you possess that feat). You may also use Combat Expertise for twice the benefit (again, if you possess the feat). This happens at 10th level.

Armor Attunement: (Ex) At 11th level, with the armor type you chose for Armor Specialization at 5th level, you now take 1 less armor check penalty (to a minimum of 0), 1 more max. Dex. bonus, and 10% less arcane spellcasting failure (to a minimum of 0).

Mettle: (Ex) At 11th level, whenever a spell would allow a lesser effect on a successful Fortitude or Will save, you instead suffer no effect on a successful save.

Shift Charge: (Ex) At 12th level the fighter may shift the direction of his charge 45 degrees, or take a 5-foot step to the left or right of his path to avoid obstacles or to aid his approach. If the 5-foot step option is used, subtract that from his total allowed distance for his charge. You may only do this once per charge.

Pounce: (Ex) At 15th level, you may make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Greater Weapon Attunement: (Ex) At 15th level, you deal additional damage with your 1st attuned weapon equal to your Fighter level.

Overpowering Attack: (Ex) At 16th level, you gain this ability, as in the PHII, but without the loss of bonus feat.

Greater Armor Attunement: (Ex) At 17th level, your attuned armor provides you with 2 additional armor class.

Greater Shift Charge: (Ex) At 18th level, you may shift your charge as many times as you want in one charge.

Greater Mettle: (Ex) On a Will or Fortitude saving throw where there is a lesser effect on a successful save, you not only suffer no effect on a successful save, but now only suffer the lesser effect on a failed one.

Weapon Apotheosis: (Ex) At 20th level, you reach an almost magical talent with your 1st attuned weapon. You gain an additional attack to your full attack routine at your highest bonus when using that weapon. You are also impossible to disarm with your attuned weapon.

With this new version of the Fighter I'm trying to just make him able to do more things, by giving him some of the feats that are looked over, or taken for not much bonus, as well as opening up other options for him. Comments!?

[monkman]

The Fighter
{table]lvl.|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Bonus Feat, Weapon Attunement
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Bonus Feat
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Armor Specialization
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
7|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|
8|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
9|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|
10|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat, Finer Weapon Attunement
11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|
12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|
14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Armor Attunement
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Weapon Apotheosis[/table]

Bonus Feats: These are drawn from the Fighter bonus feat list, at 1st level, then at every even level.

Weapon Attunement: At 1st level, the Fighter chooses a weapon with which he is proficient. At the level he becomes applicable for any feat specifically for that weapon (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus,Greater Weapon Specialization, Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery, and Weapon Supremacy) he gains it automatically.


Armor Specialization: The Fighter gains this as a bonus feat at 5th level.
Write down the feat for people who dont have the book.

Finer Weapon Attunement: With the Weapon you chose to attune with, your charges deal double damage, and apply 1 less armor class penalty. Also, you may use Combat Reflexes 1 additional time with that weapon (if you possess that feat). You may also use Power Attack and Combat Expertise for twice the benefit (again, if you possess the either feat). This happens at 10th level.
What exacly do you want to do with this?Most fighters dont charge and plus normally they get extra bonuses.
Armor check penalty is for Armor.
Combat reflexs and power attack twice?No point being there.
What does* you may use Combat Reflexes 1 additional time with that weapon* mean?

Armor Attunement: At 15th level, with the armor type you chose for Armor Specialization at 5th level, you now take 1 less armor check penalty (to a minimum of 0), 1 more max. Dex. bonus, and 10% less arcane spellcasting failure (to a minimum of 0).

Weapon Apotheosis: At 20th level, you reach an almost magical talent with your attuned weapon. You gain an additional attack to your full attack routine at your highest bonus when using that weapon.

With this new version of the Fighter I'm trying to just make him able to do more things, bye giving him some of the feats that are looked over, or taken for not much bonus. Comments!?

This class is the same fighter with free feats and 1 kinda of nice ability(Weapon Apotheosis)

[Dead_Jester]

Honestly, I don't understand the fascination with feat fighters. They are boring, and no matter what you do, they are only more or less big numbers and (mostly) full attacks 24/7.

Although this is somewhat stronger than the standard fighter, but that isn't saying much. It still has all the problems the core fighter has, and it doesn't do anything better. Also, this class really favors ubercharging, as double damage on a charge is insane with pounce (although it is still a 10 lvl dip in a very mediocre class).

Finally, there are still 9 dead levels and nothing to make you not take Zentharim fighter sub levels, which is something that should be alleviated.

[Mercenary Pen]

you haven't covered skill points per level or class skills, are they the same as the PHB fighter, or are they different?

I would have to advocate widening the fighter's skill set as part of your class, simply because 2+Int mod is too weak for any class IMO, and the fighter is lacking certain skills that would be really useful for doing his job... Listen, search, Spot and at least some of the knowledge skills for example.

I would actually drop the bonus feat at first level considering all the feats this class gives away with Weapon Attunement.

[EdroGrimshell]

I make Zhentarim a standard feature for fighters, same with the weapon focus and combat focus (PHB2) feat trees.

[Kilbourne]

This looks a lot like the Pathfinder Fighter. Have you looked at that for influence at all? It's another feat-based fighter, but gets many fighter-only feats, and has the added class-specific bonuses of weapon and armor training.

[Mongoose87]

This mostly only gives Fighters more damage. Damage is not a problem. Fighters are good at that. The problem is, say, when the enemy can fly, or when they're invisible, or when they can control your brain and make you slaughter your allies. Fighters don't have a counter to that.

[gkathellar]

This is even less of a fix than the Pathfinder fighter. You get a couple of terrible feats, can use a couple of less terrible feats slightly better. Making a feat fighter is never going to work unless you overhaul feats.

"Hey guys, 4th level! I got +2 to damage!"
"Oh, cool. I got the ability to shoot laser beams that never miss."
"You got that at first level."
"Oh, yeah, you're fight. I can make giant spiderwebs by gesturing and mumbling incomprehensibly now, I guess."
"****."

[ShiningStarling]

For the record, this isn't SUPPOSED to be perfect. It's supposed to be the same old Fighter, just with more to do with his bonus feats and an ability or two.
However, it is also a rough draft, and comments and ideas would be greatly appreciated. Also just made a quick edit, trying to think of more to do with it, and will update with time.

[gkathellar]

This fighter can't do more things, though. He can do the same thing as he always could slightly better: full attack. You haven't really made any inviable feats viable or opened up build options, because all this fighter has over the old one is more numbers.

[ShiningStarling]

Thanks for some advice, just added Stylistic learning.
More updates coming, in stlyistic learning, didn't have time today, and the new installments will NOT be more feats.

[Seerow]

Thanks for some advice, just added Stylistic learning.
More updates coming, in stlyistic learning, didn't have time today, and the new installments will NOT be more feats.

So people complain you gave nothing but more feats... and you response is.... another bonus feat? :iiam:


A couple points of advice:

1) The Fighter needs a massive power boost to be in line with other classes.
2) The Fighter needs something to do with his actions besides just attack. There needs to be some sort of decision to make. Also something to use swift actions is highly desirable, so the Fighter can keep up in terms of action economy.
3) Dead levels are bad. They encourage getting out of the class when they come up. People want to feel more awesome with every level they get. When you gain a level and get nothing but +1 BAB and some hit points, it doesn't feel cool.
4) The first two levels of Fighter are fine. If you intend to go the route of stylistic learning have it come in at level 3 at the earliest. No need to make the Fighter 2 dip even more desirable.



But basically your whole fix is same fighter as always, plus double damage charge, 2 extra bonus feats, and flurry at level 20. If your intention is to keep the Fighter weak, that's fine, but most people trying to rework the Fighter are trying to bring it up at least on par with a warblade.

[ShiningStarling]

Thanks again for help on this my 1st homebrew. i have now completely filled in the table! comments please

[umbrapolaris]

i wonder what people expect from a Fighter, for me , he is supposed too hit hard and often, sustains heavy damages, maybe give some tactical bonus to allies; what else? ( he is not a jack of all trade able to solve every obstacles nor a spellcaster. )

if people think he is not enough powerful, give more feats, more AC , more Dmg, more MAGIC items.

[gkathellar]

We expect the fighter to be reasonably effective and have genuine options in combat. As opposed to, you know, being made completely irrelevant by almost every other class with any melee viability and having only one viable option in combat (I shouldn't need to say it, but I will: full attack).

[ShiningStarling]

if people think he is not enough powerful, give more feats, more AC , more Dmg, more MAGIC items.

this is what i did, minus the magic items. i opened up various feat trees at 1st level, then gave him benefits other classes don't get for those feat trees, and then gave him the whole weapon spec. thing for free, since thats an exclusive fighter thing anyway (and yes, i know except for warblade, but i dont use those classes much)

[umbrapolaris]

my DM allowed the ToB classes with some houserules (no maneuvers prerequisites, an upgradeable chosen weapon and 1 feat at each level) , the player who enjoy his warblade thanks him a lot.

[Seerow]

my DM allowed the ToB classes with some houserules (no maneuvers prerequisites, an upgradeable chosen weapon and 1 feat at each level) , the player who enjoy his warblade thanks him a lot.

I'm sure he does. That doesn't make the Fighter any more enjoyable.

[ShiningStarling]

Quote:
Originally Posted by umbrapolaris View Post
my DM allowed the ToB classes with some houserules (no maneuvers prerequisites, an upgradeable chosen weapon and 1 feat at each level) , the player who enjoy his warblade thanks him a lot.

I'm sure he does. That doesn't make the Fighter any more enjoyable.

precisely, i did not want to make an initiator, i wanted a fighter with the same spirit, and the spirit is feat melee or maybe ranged combat guy.

[umbrapolaris]

precisely, i did not want to make an initiator, i wanted a fighter with the same spirit, and the spirit is feat melee or maybe ranged combat guy.

i think you should give lot of feats, i remember a book where the fighter has one additional feats every level in addition to the "normal" allotment of feats at every 2 levels, that means at every 2 levels he has 2 feats available which can be exchanged for a "special fighter-only feats". and each core fighter feats was redesigned to had a special effect usable only by fighter. the idea was not bad.

[wayfare]

I'm working on a fighter fix for an upcoming game, something I want to post on the boards before I use it, and was wondering if I could use your Weapon Attunement ability -- i think its an elegant way to give the fighter many of those essential feats that are nevertheless speedbumps on the way to even better feats.

[ShiningStarling]

I'm working on a fighter fix for an upcoming game, something I want to post on the boards before I use it, and was wondering if I could use your Weapon Attunement ability -- i think its an elegant way to give the fighter many of those essential feats that are nevertheless speedbumps on the way to even better feats.

I would be happy to let you, though renaming it for your purposes would avoid some confusion, and that's what i think those feats are too, speedbumps.

[absolmorph]

The smite gives him his Strength modifier to hit?
Two things:

1. This will give the stereotypical melee fighter BAB+Str+Str+Misc. for his attack roll (meaning it's double his Strength modifier).
2. If someone makes a fighter who uses Weapon Finesse and dumps Strength, this will make them worse at hitting. Either change it to mirror that Paladin's wording ("adds his Strength bonus (if any) to his attack roll", though that needs some work) or give it a minimum bonus of +1.

Ideas for abilities (in no particular order):

• A bonus to combat maneuvers (bull rush, trip, grapple, etc.)
• The ability to choose between Dexterity and Strength for damage (improved Weapon Finesse, essentially).
• Extra reach so they can attack from further.
• Pounce.
• Longer charges so they can get to enemies quicker.
• Mettle.
• A secondary Weapon Attunement, so they can use those abilities with an alternate weapon (possibly with a penalty to their fighter level).

[ShiningStarling]

New update made, Thanks to absolmorph for some ideas

[absolmorph]

Hm...
Formatting. Bold the name of each class feature ( Weapon Attunement (Ex):, and so on).
Separate the different styles of Stylistic Learning.
That'll make reading over it for critique easier.

For actual features:
The Two-Weapon style is lacking. Allow them to make an attack with both weapons as an attack action. This allows them to use both weapons on a charge or when they have to move.

Mettle would fit well at 11.

A style that uses Weapon Finesse. Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, Dex to damage at level 7 and something else. I'm not sure what would work well for that.

[ShiningStarling]

Hm...
Formatting. Bold the name of each class feature ( Weapon Attunement (Ex):, and so on).
Separate the different styles of Stylistic Learning.
That'll make reading over it for critique easier.

For actual features:
The Two-Weapon style is lacking. Allow them to make an attack with both weapons as an attack action. This allows them to use both weapons on a charge or when they have to move.

Mettle would fit well at 11.

A style that uses Weapon Finesse. Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, Dex to damage at level 7 and something else. I'm not sure what would work well for that.

ok, i didn't include mettle for a reason, but the Dex to damage idea gave me a finish for dueling, though they aren't feat synergies

[absolmorph]

ok, i didn't include mettle for a reason, but the Dex to damage idea gave me a finish for dueling, though they aren't feat synergies

Why leave out Mettle? It makes the fighter better at resisting spells when he needs to, making it harder to to take him out with any Enchantment spells and making him less reliant on magical items or spells (Mindblank and similar).

I like Duelist. Even though it's not Feat synergy, it's still flavorful and handy (even though various enemies will be immune to Sneak Attack).

One thing I just noticed: You didn't include the skill list, skill points and proficiencies.

[ericgrau]

Agreed that the fighter is already good at damage, and giving him more doesn't change much. He becomes crazy OP whenever damage is useful, and not much use when it isn't. If anything fixes like this only encourage the DM to create more encounters that stop the fighter from attacking rather than having half his encounters end instantly.

[ShiningStarling]

Agreed that the fighter is already good at damage, and giving him more doesn't change much. He becomes crazy OP whenever damage is useful, and not much use when it isn't. If anything fixes like this only encourage the DM to create more encounters that stop the fighter from attacking rather than having half his encounters end instantly.

I do not agree, the fighter isn't really that good at damage. If a usually non-combatant wizard has even one damage spell, it will do more damage to more people than a fighter could in five rounds. Thus extra damage is bestowed. He'll never be overpowered from it, because almost all monsters at levels the fighter gains these things and beyond have damage reduction. and at those levels, if there is something the fighter can drop in 3 rounds, there's more than one.

Why leave out Mettle? It makes the fighter better at resisting spells when he needs to, making it harder to to take him out with any Enchantment spells and making him less reliant on magical items or spells (Mindblank and similar).

I had actually misremembered what it did, and it may show up soon.

[Mongoose87]

I do not agree, the fighter isn't really that good at damage. If a usually non-combatant wizard has even one damage spell, it will do more damage to more people than a fighter could in five rounds. Thus extra damage is bestowed. He'll never be overpowered from it, because almost all monsters at levels the fighter gains these things and beyond have damage reduction. and at those levels, if there is something the fighter can drop in 3 rounds, there's more than one.

Do your fighters never take Power Attack or something? I find it relatively easy for fighters to get some nasty damage.