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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    OK - so in our session last night the party's chaotic evil eladrin assassin picked up a troll leg after the party had killed and burned it and started taking a few bites cause she was hungry.

    She took a bit of poison damage at the time and I said that she was poisoned and at the end of each extended rest would need to roll a check to see if the disease got better or worse.

    The only thing I dont know now is which disease should I give her... I will go looking through the compendium, but thought that the playground might have some extra poisons/disease ideas that might be cooler...
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Turn her into a troll.



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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Why was the Troll poisoned?

    Anyhow, you can just look at the Disease Rules and pick one which is equal in level to the Troll. As for effects... I really don't know where you're going with this.

    What do you want the disease to accomplish?
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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    If eating trolls counts as cannibalism, why not use the Wendigo Transformation from Demonomicon?

    There's no rules for it though- so you might have to stat out the "disease" yourself- where the spirit of a Wendigo enters the person and turns them into Wendigo form.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    If eating trolls counts as cannibalism, why not use the Wendigo Transformation from Demonomicon?

    There's no rules for it though- so you might have to stat out the "disease" yourself- where the spirit of a Wendigo enters the person and turns them into Wendigo form.
    Oi. I said it first. You just said it more eloquently

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    I like the idea of starting the process of turning her into a troll... I might look into that.

    We only have two sessions left in this year long campaign and I was just looking for something fun to end on for this chaotic evil character.

    Ideally I would love for the disease to rear its ugly head at the most inopportune times as in the final session they are going to need to resuce a city that is under siege from three opposing armies, crown and king and save the day.

    Having the assassin vomit at the coronation or something like that would be an awesome way to end this heroic campaign and provide a good starting point for the paragon campaign when it happens.
    I lose more minions to that Starting Tavern than from any other. I mean come on! Give a guy a chance!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    John Campbell's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    I thought that's how you were supposed to convince trolls to stay down.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    If you wanted to you could be nice to her and give her a weakness to acid and fire but give her fast healing. So acid and fire do double damage but she gets fast healing 1. Or make it so she takes only a little extra damage from fire and acid but can only use fast healing for 10-15 rounds a day.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Eh, I think the simple fact that the troll was dead, she cooked the meat and the stomach is full of acid means that crazy over-the-top responses are pretty unfair, really. It's practically the safest thing you could do to a dead troll, really.

    The way I see it, there are two ways it could, or should go.

    1 - Nice DM route;
    Having killed and eaten the troll, she takes it's strength inside her. Gains a daily regeneration-stance style power, something along the lines of the Bloodline feats, or the Shifter Racial that gives something like that.

    2 - Naughty DM route;
    She's cooked it carefully and eaten it, but that doesn't make the food edible. The disease she is tracking is, infact, food poisoning. The only question is, can she hold it down long enough not to come down with explosive diarrhea during the ceremony.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.
    It was mentioned in one of the Drizzt novels that would happen, but it irked me a bit when I read it, because the stomach acid would negate the regeneration! Oh, Salvatore, you're so silly!
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Mercenary Pen's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Well, you know what they say, you are what you eat...

    Maybe have her take on a monstrous transformation as the troll regeneration tries to take hold of her body, potentially turning her into something monstrous in appearance as well imposing penalties on her day to day adventuring, but providing her with temporary hit points each round...
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WitchSlayer's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    If you have a DDI subscription, you could check out some of the assassin poison effects for eating something with the poison on it.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Eh, I think the simple fact that the troll was dead, she cooked the meat and the stomach is full of acid means that crazy over-the-top responses are pretty unfair, really. It's practically the safest thing you could do to a dead troll, really.

    The way I see it, there are two ways it could, or should go.

    1 - Nice DM route;
    Having killed and eaten the troll, she takes it's strength inside her. Gains a daily regeneration-stance style power, something along the lines of the Bloodline feats, or the Shifter Racial that gives something like that.

    2 - Naughty DM route;
    She's cooked it carefully and eaten it, but that doesn't make the food edible. The disease she is tracking is, infact, food poisoning. The only question is, can she hold it down long enough not to come down with explosive diarrhea during the ceremony.
    I think I like this the best - even though I would love to give her some awesome disease that does crazy stuff I think I will go with a combination of both of these.

    So... each at encounter she can make an endurance check. If she succeeds, then she gets regen 10 while bloodied or something along those lines - I will look up some feats and powers and see what is best. First time she fails an endurance check, lose 1 healing surge. The second time, she disrupts whatever is going on with her explosive diarrhea!

    If you have a DDI subscription, you could check out some of the assassin poison effects for eating something with the poison on it.
    I do - I will have a look into this.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    About the worst I'd expect to happen is for the food to not agree with the character. Troll meat isn't exactly on the menu for most people.

    Maybe apply the weakened condition to the character from time to time?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    If only the character was a goblin and a male then he would turn into the most awesome PC ever with awesome sauce in his veins...but alas...wrong setting.


    I say give her a permanent -2 to everything (from the pain of indigestion), a further -2 to social skills (from flatulence), but she gains regeneration 5.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgnslyr View Post
    It was mentioned in one of the Drizzt novels that would happen, but it irked me a bit when I read it, because the stomach acid would negate the regeneration! Oh, Salvatore, you're so silly!
    A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count? or B) maybe it grew fast enough it got stuck before it went in with the acid?

    Also, I had an idea. Maybe trolls don't reproduce through sex, but rather by loosing limbs to wounds, and through a disease in their flesh that transmutes a normal fetus into a troll. Or bonds with the eggs to create a half-offspring( half-troll is a template, after all.) Although I'd be wary of doing that, as many people are uncomfortable with the idea of roleplaying pregnancy. It would be a hilarious consequence though.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count? or B) maybe it grew fast enough it got stuck before it went in with the acid?
    Nope, they definitely said the unfortunate cat burst a while after nomming on the troll corpse because of a bunch of trolls popping out of its stomach.

    I guess you could reason that stomach acid is too weak, though.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    It would be a hilarious consequence though.
    Not particularly, really.

    And given that troll corpses are not known for breaking down into hundreds of little trolls, I really doubt the appropriateness of a piece of dead troll miraculously turning into several complete mini (and live) trolls in the stomach of anything.

    But then with R.A. Salvator, you really should expect ass pulls like that, I guess.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2010-12-09 at 08:16 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count?
    According to wikipedia, gastric acid has a pH of about 1-2. That's pretty corrosive.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    But isn't it diluted when actually in the stomach?
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Not particularly, really.

    And given that troll corpses are not known for breaking down into hundreds of little trolls, I really doubt the appropriateness of a piece of dead troll miraculously turning into several complete mini (and live) trolls in the stomach of anything.

    But then with R.A. Salvator, you really should expect ass pulls like that, I guess.
    I don't remember what book that happened in, so I'll have to take your word for it that it didn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    According to wikipedia, gastric acid has a pH of about 1-2. That's pretty corrosive.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    As was hinted at by Tehnar, there's a named character in Warhammer Fantasy Battle that ate some troll. He was a goblin named Grom, I believe. The troll continued to expand inside him (it's worth noting that regeneration as a rule in WHFB is usually only overcome by fire damage) giving him a constantly expanding stomach and rather nasty flatulence. He was the best character ever.

    Also, in the Roguelike game Nethack, eating a dead troll was one of the safest ways to prevent it from regenerating. Either that, or tinning it and eating it later.

    But coming up with a 4th Ed custom disease isn't too hard, in general. Just look at a similar level disease for the guidelines, and roll with it, doing something funny. If the meat was raw, I'd say this is totally a way to go. Cooked though...meh. Probably safe. I've made custom diseases for 4th a few times, it's actually really fun. Some effects like "Gains Regeneration 5 (if the inflicted individual takes acid or fire damage, regeneration does not function until the end of its next turn), loses one healing surge, gains vulnerable fire 10, etc." Having a disease have bad and good effects is kind of interesting, as long as it works towards a bad end (death, helplessness, etc.)

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Pssh, you and your science. Would you like a shovel to bury those catgirls with?
    Well, it's kind of dubious coming up with the whole "eat troll, bad things happen" rule since nothing in the books supports it. I could imagine it working in 2nd edition, or maybe third but 4th isn't really geared towards stuff like that.

    If nothing else though, I really don't like the idea of eating a troll making you gain regeneration. That kind of power shouldn't be readily given or easy to come by as it's very valuable to the player.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Feliks878's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    If nothing else though, I really don't like the idea of eating a troll making you gain regeneration. That kind of power shouldn't be readily given or easy to come by as it's very valuable to the player.
    You're probably right, but in my mind it would come with some pretty severe penalties as well - strong enough to make it a Bad Idea. As long as the disease made you weaker when you failed, giving you some trollish abilities like Regeneration but eating up all of your healing surges, or reducing your total number of hitpoints, huge attack/damage penalties, etc, eventually culminating in a painful death.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    On balance I really do think that the only valid response is neither significant penalty, nor significant bonus.

    Food poisoning is really the only valid response that isn't hilariously over-dramatic, completely without precedent or generally nuts.

    There's nothing super magic involved, it's just a chunk of dead meat that wasn't prepared quite as carefully as it could have been. Feeling sick (a small penalty) is a decent starting point, if it gets worse on the next check then you should be looking at the weakened state and if it goes bad enough, the end-point is severe de-hydration and eventually death.
    But it shouldn't reach that unless she receives no attention at all, I can't see any justification for particularly high DC's.

    Mad Bonuses or Penalties just aren't justified based on the act itself. If they are given, it would basically be a reaction to the player/character more than a genuine reaction to what actually happened.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ernir's Avatar

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Does 4E have filth fever? Sounds appropriate.

    Also, troll meat has to be the worst meat ever. Seriously, it is more likely than not to have grown in a matter of minutes as a result of a manticore chewing off its leg at some point. It probably has the firmness and texture of a sock full of jello.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    If you want to do something more flavorful than simple indigestion (which seems the most likely result to me), you could say that if he makes a check to avoid hurling from the foul and disgusting taste, he gets a temporary bonus to Strength and the ability to track by smell.

    If this causes the character to regularly nosh on troll for the benefits, make it addictive. The PC doesn't have to know until he's suddenly jonesing for his next fix.

    Incidentally, in my game trolls are a servitor race that has been so heavily bioengineered with forbidden magics that they would have the texture and taste of oily plastic. Fire doesn't burn them--it melts them.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Why was the Troll poisoned?
    The troll wasn't poisoned, but troll flesh contains a number of toxins that normally renders it inedible. You can actually prepare it for consumption, but it's still incredibly unappetizing.

    Why not replicate the effects of botulism? It begins with double vision (negative attack modifier) and paralysis of the facial muscles (negative modifier to all Bluff, Intimidation and Persuasion checks). The paralysis then spreads outward to the limbs, which eventually leads to the player becoming completely immobilized.
    Last edited by FoE; 2010-12-10 at 04:45 AM.

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