o/nWoD - Buying books

[Savannah]

I've been interested in oWoD pretty much since I learned about it, and have decided to finally buy some books for it. However, I had several questions come up when I was looking at the books.

1) I know I want Vampire: the Masquerade (this is the only one I've been able to read any of, and I love it). Am I correct in assuming that the "revised edition" (1998) is a better buy than "second edition" (1995)? The second edition is cheaper, but I'm perfectly happy to pay the price on the revised edition.

2) I'm also looking at Werewolf: The Apocalypse. I've found a "revised edition" (2000) and a "second edition" (1995). Unfortunately, the revised edition is way more expensive than I can afford, so am I better off waiting for it to be cheaper or buying the second edition now?

3) In trying to figure out the revised vs. second editions for those two, I've discovered that I really, really want Changeling: the Lost. Which means I'd also need to buy the new world of darkness rulebook, correct?

4) Since I was looking at buying the nWoD rulebook, I looked at Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken as well. I want Masquerade, not Requiem, based on what I read about the differences in the games (I'm having a hard time articulating exactly why at the moment, but I'm pretty set on it). However, I am having a hard time figuring out what the significant differences between Apocalypse and Forsaken are, in terms of fluff and tone. Can anyone elaborate on that?

Thanks in advance!

[The Rose Dragon]

You can get Vampire Translation Guide on RPGNow.com for a dollar, and use the Masquerade fluff with the Requiem mechanics, which I prefer much more.

[Savannah]

If I were to do that, would I need to buy Masquerade and Requiem and the nWoD rulebook? Or just Masquerade and the nWoD rulebook?

[The Rose Dragon]

If I were to do that, would I need to buy Masquerade and Requiem and the nWoD rulebook? Or just Masquerade and the nWoD rulebook?

I think all three, since Vampire mechanics are still stuck within the Requiem book.

((Then again, I prefer the bittersweet tone of Requiem to the dark politics of Masquerade, so I would tell you to buy Requiem either way.))

[Lord Vampyre]

1) Yes, buy the 3rd edition of Vampire. It has all 13 clans, and the rules are far cleaner.

2) You can always work the changes in from 3rd edition later if you just get the 2nd edition now.

3) Yes, you plan on incorporating anything from the nWoD rules, you'll need the core book. Although you could bastardize the rules and use a combination of oWoD rules that you can scavenge from the Masquerade setting. Alternatively you could try and find Changeling: the Dreaming for the oWoD setting, I mean why go and spoil a good thing.

4) Honestly, the main thing is that Werewolf the Apocalypse fits better into the storyline of oWoD than Werewolf the Forsaken.

Now, I can see you've made a slight oversight. Nowhere did you mention Mage the Ascension. This is by far White Wolf's greatest creation of all time, and it fits perfectly for an oWoD game.

[Savannah]

I just realized I should have asked this, too:

5) I'd like to be able to run games in all three (Vampire, Werewolf, and Changing) as well as be able to play. As near as I can tell, having skimmed the revised edition of Masquerade, I should be able to run a game in it without needing any additional books. Is this correct?
What about Apocalypse (and is there a difference between revised and second, similar to not having all the vampire clans in second edition Masquerade)?
And Changeling: the Lost/nWoD rulebook?

Thanks again for all the advice so far!

[Lord Vampyre]

5) One of the best parts of the oWoD storytelling systems is the ability to run a game with only one book. The supplements merely add flavor to the game. Now, I admit that I am not as well versed in the nWoD system, but it is my understanding that you do need the core nWoD book to effectively run a game, but this still only raises your requirement by one book.

Now I do caution against crossing the games. The games are not balanced very well with each other.

[comicshorse]

I just realized I should have asked this, too:

5) I'd like to be able to run games in all three (Vampire, Werewolf, and Changing) as well as be able to play. As near as I can tell, having skimmed the revised edition of Masquerade, I should be able to run a game in it without needing any additional books. Is this correct?
What about Apocalypse (and is there a difference between revised and second, similar to not having all the vampire clans in second edition Masquerade)?
And Changeling: the Lost/nWoD rulebook?

Thanks again for all the advice so far!

5) Yes, all you need for each of the OWorld of Darkness settings was just the core book.
For NWoD you will need the NWoD rulebook to run Changeling: the Lost ( which is great by the way) but once you've got it you can use it with any of the NWoD games.
I've been in a mixed game and, power level aside, the big problem was that the vampires get really bored when the sun comes up. To the extent that we eventually just made it a Vampire game as it wasn't working as a mixed game.

[Aron Times]

the rules are far cleaner.

If by "cleaner" you mean "still a trainwreck."

When it comes to playability, the oWoD vs. the nWoD are like night and day.

[Semidi]

I've been interested in oWoD pretty much since I learned about it, and have decided to finally buy some books for it. However, I had several questions come up when I was looking at the books.

1) I know I want Vampire: the Masquerade (this is the only one I've been able to read any of, and I love it). Am I correct in assuming that the "revised edition" (1998) is a better buy than "second edition" (1995)? The second edition is cheaper, but I'm perfectly happy to pay the price on the revised edition.

Revised is better. However, keep in mind that later additions of V:tM are progress further in the metaplot so the book will talk about how the Tremere antitribu have gone poof (when they previously hadn't been). I also can't imagine the copies would be that radically different.

2) I'm also looking at Werewolf: The Apocalypse. I've found a "revised edition" (2000) and a "second edition" (1995). Unfortunately, the revised edition is way more expensive than I can afford, so am I better off waiting for it to be cheaper or buying the second edition now?

I don't know much about the nitty gritty rules of W;tA. Sorry--I never played it.

3) In trying to figure out the revised vs. second editions for those two, I've discovered that I really, really want Changeling: the Lost. Which means I'd also need to buy the new world of darkness rulebook, correct?

Changeling: the Lost requires the nWoD corebook and the Changeling corebook. I wouldn't suggest going for oWoD Changeling mostly because I despise it. It might not be a bad investment if you just go straight nWoD books and pick up white wolf's conversion guides to use Masquerade fluff and nWoD rules (which are much, much cleaner and user friendly). Finally, the nWoD corebook isn't bad at all for running generic modern games and might come in use later on.

4) Since I was looking at buying the nWoD rulebook, I looked at Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken as well. I want Masquerade, not Requiem, based on what I read about the differences in the games (I'm having a hard time articulating exactly why at the moment, but I'm pretty set on it). However, I am having a hard time figuring out what the significant differences between Apocalypse and Forsaken are, in terms of fluff and tone. Can anyone elaborate on that?

Apocalypse, I'm not an expert in. However, the big thing with it is that Werewolves are fighting "The Wyrm" which is a Lovecraftian entity that will consume the world. They fight enemies of the Wyrm and try to push back its presence. If you're familiar with Norse mythology, they're trying to push back Ragnarok while at the same time knowledgeable that it's inevitable.

Forsaken is... yeah... A friend of mine (a rabid hater of Forsaken) describes it as playing Immigration Officers. Basically, in nWoD there's a barrier between our world and the Spirit realm, separated by the gauntlet. The Forsaken (a variety of werewolves that you'll most likely be playing) exist to keep that barrier between the realms strong while many spirit attempt entry into our world. They fight "The Pure", a group that reject the teaching of the Forsaken and seek to wipe them all out.

Personally, I don't really like Forsaken as a game. I've never played Apocalypse, but I understand that it's far better.

Thanks in advance!

I would second the person who said to look into the conversion guide. It's only a buck and I've heard good things about it. Also, White Wolf has promised that the entire White Wolf library will be made print on demand at Drive thru RPG in the near future.

My reply is bold in the quote box thingy.

[Savannah]

Thanks, Semidi! That was exactly what I needed to know about the differences between Apocalypse and Forsaken.

[SurlySeraph]

Forsaken is... yeah... A friend of mine (a rabid hater of Forsaken) describes it as playing Immigration Officers. Basically, in nWoD there's a barrier between our world and the Spirit realm, separated by the gauntlet. The Forsaken (a variety of werewolves that you'll most likely be playing) exist to keep that barrier between the realms strong while many spirit attempt entry into our world. They fight "The Pure", a group that reject the teaching of the Forsaken and seek to wipe them all out.

Aw, but that's part of how everything in World of Darkness is a metaphor for politics!
Vampire: The Politician
Werewolf: The (Spirit) Police
Mage: The Irresponsible Rich Guy
Geist: The (Ghost) Social Worker
Changeling: The Independent Contractor (who was abused as a child)
Hunter: The Vigilante
Promethean: The Unpopular Minority

[Aron Times]

Thanks, Semidi! That was exactly what I needed to know about the differences between Apocalypse and Forsaken.

What he didn't mention is that werewolves have been nerfed a lot combat-wise in Forsaken. They're still combat monsters compared to the other major templates, but the latter actually have a chance against them in a fight.

[The Glyphstone]

What he didn't mention is that werewolves have been nerfed a lot combat-wise in Forsaken. They're still combat monsters compared to the other major templates, but the latter actually have a chance against them in a fight.

Because for some crazy reason, WW decided that hanging out on your front porch in warform and reading the paper was cheesy. Now war-shape can only be used in actual combat.

[tcrudisi]

I've been interested in oWoD pretty much since I learned about it, and have decided to finally buy some books for it. However, I had several questions come up when I was looking at the books.

1) I know I want Vampire: the Masquerade (this is the only one I've been able to read any of, and I love it). Am I correct in assuming that the "revised edition" (1998) is a better buy than "second edition" (1995)? The second edition is cheaper, but I'm perfectly happy to pay the price on the revised edition.

Definitely go for the revised. It's a bit smoother rules-wise and the fluff is better.

2) I'm also looking at Werewolf: The Apocalypse. I've found a "revised edition" (2000) and a "second edition" (1995). Unfortunately, the revised edition is way more expensive than I can afford, so am I better off waiting for it to be cheaper or buying the second edition now?

I'd hang around for a little bit and wait for the revised to drop to a reasonable level. It's okay to wait because you don't want to mix/match your systems anyway. If you are running a vampire game, don't throw in werewolves (or if you do, use the werewolves as statted in the vampire book. Why? Because there's a big power difference between Mages, Changelings, Werewolves and Vampires. Wait until you are experienced at the systems before you run cross-system.

But anyway - my advice is still to wait until the revised price for werewolf is more in your price range. It's a great, great system.

3) In trying to figure out the revised vs. second editions for those two, I've discovered that I really, really want Changeling: the Lost. Which means I'd also need to buy the new world of darkness rulebook, correct?

Changeling the Lost or Changeling the Dreaming? Changeling the Lost is 3rd edition. I know practically nothing about it. Changeling the Dreaming is one of my favorite oWoD systems. It's awesome. If you have a group that's not afraid to make idiots of themselves, well, this system quickly jumps up to one of the greatest systems of all time. Yes, I said it. Why? Because your sessions will be very memorable. You'll remember the time that your Pooka lead the charge into the battle by screaming "RETREAT!" You will remember the time that Bob's changeling actually performed a small jig at the table to help cast his magic. It's ... brilliant. Then again, if your group is fairly conservative in nature, probably avoid this one.

4) Since I was looking at buying the nWoD rulebook, I looked at Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken as well. I want Masquerade, not Requiem, based on what I read about the differences in the games (I'm having a hard time articulating exactly why at the moment, but I'm pretty set on it). However, I am having a hard time figuring out what the significant differences between Apocalypse and Forsaken are, in terms of fluff and tone. Can anyone elaborate on that?

Sorry, I've stuck with revised oWoD, so I don't know the differences.

Thanks in advance!

Required 10 letters to be able to post.

[Savannah]

Changeling the Lost or Changeling the Dreaming? Changeling the Lost is 3rd edition. I know practically nothing about it. Changeling the Dreaming is one of my favorite oWoD systems. It's awesome. If you have a group that's not afraid to make idiots of themselves, well, this system quickly jumps up to one of the greatest systems of all time. Yes, I said it. Why? Because your sessions will be very memorable. You'll remember the time that your Pooka lead the charge into the battle by screaming "RETREAT!" You will remember the time that Bob's changeling actually performed a small jig at the table to help cast his magic. It's ... brilliant. Then again, if your group is fairly conservative in nature, probably avoid this one.

I mean the Lost. From what I've heard, it goes for the darker aspects of fairy tales, which is exactly what I've wanted to play for a long time.

[Psyx]

I would personally recommend using nWoD with the old fluff.

The old system is just... bad. It was written by people who couldn't do maths. It's broken, unbalanced, slow, awkward and defies logic. The new system is much cleaner and combat resolves in less than half the time. I love the old fluff, but the system ruins it.

There is a conversion guide for using old disiplines, clans et cetera under new rules. If you buy that ($1) and the nWoD core book, then you just need to buy the core book for whatever you fancy: Changling, Werewolf or Vampire. The oWoD fluff can be obtained from older books or freely on various wikis and suchlike on the Net.