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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Drakevarg's Avatar

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    Default [3.5 Base Class] The Warrior - Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Not really so much a fix as folding another core class into it, the only real reason I'm making these alterations is that in the homebrew setting I'm working on, Warlocks are the only supernatural class, period. Thus, any class with any remotely supernatural abilities at all need to go.

    On the other hand, some classes (like the Ranger) work pretty well as mundane classes, only growing supernatural abilities like a tumor towards the end of their career (particularly in the martial variant, which is the one I usually use). And since some of their abilities actually made a great deal of sense for a fighter, I thought I'd try combining the two.

    Problem is that without access to my books I had to build this using the SRD (which I generally don't like using). So this limits alot of potential. Namely, I wanted to add feats from my other books to the Fighter's new Combat Style bonus feats. Usually this is due to me adding several new combat styles to the Ranger's two, but it's also because it occurs to me that the choice of feats for say, Archery, could probably be improved upon using feats from Complete Warrior or somesuch instead of core.

    So, other than just a general overlook, I would ask you to please help suggest bonus feats for each Combat Style, limiting your selection to the books listed in my signature. Thank you.

    -----

    WARRIOR
    Hit Dice: d10

    Class Skills
    Climb (STR)
    Handle Animal (CHA)
    Heal (WIS)
    Jump (STR)
    Listen (WIS)
    Ride (DEX)
    Search (INT)
    Spot (WIS)
    Survival (WIS)
    Swim (STR)

    Skill Points: 4

    Class Features
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Warrior is proficient in all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with all shields.
    Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and every odd level thereafter (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th), a Warrior gains a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the feats noted as Fighter Bonus Feats. A Warrior must still meet all the prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
    Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, the Warrior may select a type of creature from among those given on the table below. The Warrior gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Spot, Sense Motive, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
    At 6th level and every six levels thereafter (12th and 18th), the Warrior may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2. If the Warrior wishes, the Warrior may forego the addition of a favored enemy in favor of increasing the bonus against a previous favored enemy by 2.
    Rage (Ex): A Warrior can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, the Warrior temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will Saves, but takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the Warrior's hitpoints by 2 per level, but these hitpoints go away at the end of the rage when their Constitution drops back to normal. (These extra hitpoints are not lost first the way temporary hitpoints are.) While raging, the Warrior cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can they cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand) or spell completetion (such as a scroll) to function. They can use any feat they have except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds eqaul to 3 + the Warrior's (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A Warrior may prematurely end their rage. At the end of the rage, the Warrior loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can't charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless they are a 15th-level Warrior, at which point this limitation no longer applies).
    A Warrior can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level they can use their rage ability once per day. At 5th level and every five levels thereafter, they can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a Warrior can only do it during their action, not in response to someone else's action.
    Fast Movement (Ex): A Warrior's land speed is faster than the norm for their race by +10 feet. This benefit only applies when not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the Warrior's speed because of any load carried or armor worn. For example, a human Warrior has a speed of 40 feet, rather than 30 feet, when carrying a medium or light load. When wearing carrying a heavy load, their speed drops to 30 feet.
    Combat Style (Ex): At 2nd level, the Warrior must choose between four combat styles to pursue: Two-Weapon Combat, Mounted Combat, Shield Fighting, or Unarmed Combat. They receive the appropriate bonus feat, listed below, even if they do not meet the prerequisites for that feat:
    Two-Weapon Combat - Two-Weapon Fighting
    Mounted Combat - Spirited Charge
    Shield Fighting - Improved Shield Bash
    Unarmed Combat - Stunning Fist
    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, a Warrior retains their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if they are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still lose their Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Warrior already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class, they automatically gain Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.
    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 8th level and higher, a Warrior can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a Rogue the ability to sneak attack the Warrior by flanking them, unless the attacker has at least four more Rogue levels than the target has Warrior levels. If a character already has Uncanny Dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant Uncanny Dodge stack to determine the minimum level a Rogue must be to flank the character.
    Improved Combat Style (Ex): At 6th level, the Warrior's aptitude for their chosen combat style improves. They receive the appropriate bonus feat, listed below, even if they do not meet the prerequisites for that feat:
    Two-Weapon Combat - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    Mounted Combat - Trample
    Shield Fighting - Shield Charge
    Unarmed Combat - Fists of Iron
    Pounce (Ex): At 7th level and beyond, when a Warrior makes a charge, they can follow with a full attack.
    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 12th level, a Warrior gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the Warrior takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or natural attack. At 14th level, and every two Warrior levels thereafter (16th, 18th, and 20th), this damagereduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
    Combat Style Mastery (Ex): At 11th level, the Warrior's aptitude in their chosen combat style improves again. They receive the appropriate bonus feat, listed below, even if they do not meet the prerequisites for that feat:
    Two-Weapon Combat - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    Mounted Combat - Cavalry Charger
    Shield Fighting - Shield Slam
    Wrestling - Freezing the Lifeblood
    Greater Rage (Ex): At 10th level, a Warrior's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during their rage each increase to +6, and their morale bonus on Will Saves increase to +3. The penalty to AC remains at -2.
    Tireless Rage (Ex): At 15th level and higher, a Warrior no longer becomes fatigued at the end of their rage.
    Mighty Rage (Ex): At 20th level, a Warrior's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during their rage each increase to +8, and their morale bonus on Will Saves increases to +4. The penalty to AC remains at -2.

    {table=head]Favored Enemies
    Animal
    Construct
    Human
    Outsider[/table]

    The Warrior
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |1st Favored Enemy, Rage (1/Day), Fast Movement, Bonus Feat

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Combat Style

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Uncanny Dodge

    5th|
    +5
    |
    4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Rage (2/Day), Bonus Feat

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |2nd Favored Enemy, Improved Combat Style

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Improved Uncanny Dodge

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Greater Rage, Rage (3/Day)

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Combat Style Mastery, Bonus Feat

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |3rd Favored Enemy, DR 1/--

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |DR 2/--

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Tireless Rage, Rage (4/Day), Bonus Feat

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |DR 3/--

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |4th Favored Enemy, DR 4/--

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Mighty Rage, Rage (5/Day), DR 5/--[/table]

    -----

    The reason there are only four varieties of favored enemy is also for setting reasons. Riftspawn is essentially a mix between Outsider and Aberration.

    [Edit]: Folded Barbarian into the class as well, to reduce my setting's classes to the "melee/stealth/magic" trifecta. Though I'm worried that with that the Bonus Feats might be a bit much.

    [Edit]: Replaced the table with the version I posted later in the thread.

    [Edit]: Added Fast Movement.

    [Edit]: Added Pounce, removed the Archery Combat Style, and changed the class's name to Warrior.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-12-25 at 01:43 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    You might change "riftspawn" to "Outsiders and abberations."

    You also might want to do something with levels 4,8,12,14,16, and 18.
    Fighter: "I can kill someone in a turn."
    Cleric: "I can kill someone in half a turn."
    Wizard: "I can kill someone before my turn."
    Bard: "I can make three idiots kill people for me."

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by firemagehao View Post
    You might change "riftspawn" to "Outsiders and abberations."
    Wouldn't make any sense given the setting. There's literally no difference between the two, so saying "outsiders and aberrations" in this scenario makes as much sense as saying "humans and people."

    You also might want to do something with levels 4,8,12,14,16, and 18.
    Like what?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    Wouldn't make any sense given the setting. There's literally no difference between the two, so saying "outsiders and aberrations" in this scenario makes as much sense as saying "humans and people."



    Like what?
    For Riftspawn, you could at least make a note of what they are.

    For the dead levels: movement and multiple attacks, extra attacks in general, Mettle, some sort of bonus for his saves (Will and Reflex, especially Will), bonus on saves vs. fear.
    Just some ideas for you to work with.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    For Riftspawn, you could at least make a note of what they are.
    I did, at the bottom of the post.

    For the dead levels: movement and multiple attacks, extra attacks in general, Mettle, some sort of bonus for his saves (Will and Reflex, especially Will), bonus on saves vs. fear.
    Just some ideas for you to work with.
    I folded Barbarian into the class, leaving only one dead level. Or is that a bit much?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    I guess I missed that. Oops

    With just three classes to balance, it should be pretty easy to make sure the other two classes match up to this. Bump the skill points up to 6, so they can have some more versatility, and I think this should be a solid tier 3.
    You should at least start filling in the Combat Style feats, though, even if you don't know all of them off the top of your head.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    I guess I missed that. Oops
    More likely I updated it while or just after you were posting.

    With just three classes to balance, it should be pretty easy to make sure the other two classes match up to this.
    Might roll the leftover (Ex) Ranger abilities into Rogue, and maybe a dash of Swashbuckler just to make sure.

    Bump the skill points up to 6, so they can have some more versatility, and I think this should be a solid tier 3.
    And here I was thinking it was too much as it is. I'll take a middle ground with 4 skill points.

    You should at least start filling in the Combat Style feats, though, even if you don't know all of them off the top of your head.
    Next time I have access to my books I will. I mostly left 'em blank to leave myself open to suggestions.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    More likely I updated it while or just after you were posting.

    Might roll the leftover (Ex) Ranger abilities into Rogue, and maybe a dash of Swashbuckler just to make sure.

    And here I was thinking it was too much as it is. I'll take a middle ground with 4 skill points.

    Next time I have access to my books I will. I mostly left 'em blank to leave myself open to suggestions.
    I think that would work well.

    For the styles, some are pretty obvious. Two-Weapon Fighting for Two-Weapon Fighting, Point Blank Shot for Archery (to open up more feats), Mounted Combat for Mounted Combat, Improved Unarmed Strike for Unarmed Fighting.
    For the Improved Combat Style (Unarmed Fighting) you could give Superior Unarmed Strike.

    I know there are some good Shield feats in Complete Warrior, and I think PHB has some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Strangely enough... I actually like this quite a bit. The only change I think I'd make is to give it a few more class skills and I'd consider giving it 6+Int skill points per level, but really, it's surprisingly slick for being a double gestalt Barb/Fighter/Ranger without spells. Cool stuff.

    The "problem" with this is that at levels 1-5 this will be incredibly powerful. More so than a Warblade? I dunno. I dunno if the Warblade is even allowed in your campaign, but Warblades already wreck at levels 1-5 and this is possibly even more powerful.

    Maybe tone the progression of all of the class features down to something like 3/4 gestalt of all three. Rage 1/day and Endurance at 1st level? Favored Enemy and Bonus Feat at 2nd level? Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense +1 at 3rd level? Extra uses of Rage every five levels after 1st, extra Favored Enemy at 12th level, extra Bonus Feats every three levels after 2nd; advance Trap Sense and Damage Reduction at the standard rates. Combat Styles... might have to go by the wayside then... but still, that'd be a pretty cool class. It feels like a serious adventurer. It might be nice to throw in some Scout-esque adventure-y stuff like Flawless Stride and Freedom of Movement in there somewhere if there are dead levels.

    I'd also probably edit the mechanics of Favored Enemy. Since you only have four different enemies to choose from the class doesn't need five. That's why I suggested just giving them two above, but then the bonuses are trifling, which is why I'd tweak the feature a bit. Just have the bonus automatically scale up by +2 per five Fighter levels so that at 12th level when you get the second one you're getting +6 to the skills and damage against both Favored Enemies, and by 20th level it's +10. Pretty worth it.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-16 at 11:53 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Heres an alternative table:

    The Fighter
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |1st Favored Enemy, Rage (1/Day) Bonus Feat

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Combat Style

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Bonus Feat

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Uncanny Dodge

    5th|
    +5
    |
    4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Rage (2/Day), Bonus Feat

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |2nd Favored Enemy, Improved Combat Style

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Bonus Feat

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Improved Uncanny Dodge

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Greater Rage, Rage (3/Day)

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Combat Style Mastery, Bonus Feat

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |3rd Favored Enemy, DR 1/--

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |DR 2/--

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Tireless Rage, Rage (4/Day), Bonus Feat

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |DR 3/--

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Bonus Feat

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |4th Favored Enemy, DR 4/--

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Mighty Rage, Rage (5/Day), DR 5/--[/table]

    How's that look?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    So you want them to get +8 to their skills and damage against all enemies in the campaign setting?

    I just feel like the class is going to be dealing more damage than it needs to be doing at all levels of play, and it's going to completely dominate levels 1-5 more than any published melee class already does.

    Effectively you're giving the Fighter twice the feats they'd normally want, which is fine because now they can be both a competent archer and a lockdown tripper at the same time. But that coupled with a Barbarian's Rage and Favored Enemy gives them an unnecessary damage boost. Fighters could already deal a perfectly fine amount of damage.

    Do you mind if I tinker with this idea? I really like the spirit of it and how it all comes together and still feels like a Fighter, but I feel like something's off a bit. If I play with it I can get a better idea of what I think might help.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    So you want them to get +8 to their skills and damage against all enemies in the campaign setting?
    Bwuh? If you distributed the bonuses as evenly as possible, it'd be +2, +4, +4, +4. Alternatively you could get +14 against one type of enemy, which is nasty but consider that casters can do far worse.

    I just feel like the class is going to be dealing more damage than it needs to be doing at all levels of play, and it's going to completely dominate levels 1-5 more than any published melee class already does.
    Well it IS the melee class. Doing obscene levels of damage is it's job.

    Effectively you're giving the Fighter twice the feats they'd normally want, which is fine because now they can be both a competent archer and a lockdown tripper at the same time. But that coupled with a Barbarian's Rage and Favored Enemy gives them an unnecessary damage boost. Fighters could already deal a perfectly fine amount of damage.
    And yet core Fighters are probably the second worst class in the game. (CW Samurai taking the #1 slot.)

    Do you mind if I tinker with this idea? I really like the spirit of it and how it all comes together and still feels like a Fighter, but I feel like something's off a bit. If I play with it I can get a better idea of what I think might help.
    Be my guest.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Psycho, I think you forgot about the Warrior.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    Psycho, I think you forgot about the Warrior.
    That hardly counts. I skipped the Commoner, too.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    This is what I came up with after tinkering:

    The Fighter

    HD: d12
    Saves: Good Fort, Poor Ref, Poor Will

    1. Rage 1/day, Endurance
    2. Bonus Feat, Trap Sense +1
    3. Favored Enemy (1st), DR 1/--
    4. Flawless Charge
    5. Bonus Feat, Guts
    6. Rage 2/day, Trap Sense +2, DR 2/--
    7. Favored Enemy (2nd)
    8. Bonus Feat
    9. Flawless Stride, Trap Sense +3
    10. Greater Rage, DR 3/--
    11. Rage 3/day, Bonus Feat
    12. Favored Enemy (3rd), Trap Sense +4
    13. Indomitable Will,
    14. Bonus Feat, DR 5/--
    15. Tireless Rage, Trap Sense +5
    16. Rage 4/day, Favored Enemy (4th)
    17. Bonus Feat, DR 7/--
    18. Trap Sense +6, Flawless Movement
    19. Mighty Rage, DR 10/--
    20. Bonus Feat, Favored Enemy (5th), DR 15/--

    Class Skills (6+Int): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Listen, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, and Use Rope.

    Proficiencies: As Fighter.

    Rage, Favored Enemy, and Indomitable Will are altered, the other features remain the same as standard. The new features are outlined below.

    Rage (Ex): The Fighter's Rage grants the usual bonus to Strength, but not the bonus to Constitution, nor the penalty to AC. Instead when he enters his Rage he regains 1d8 hit points, +1d8 additional hit points per two Fighter levels. Any hit points regained in excess of his maximum hit points are granted as temporary hit points which last until the end of his Rage.

    The will save bonus is increased to +4 at Greater Rage and +6 at Mighty Rage.

    Rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 5+the Fighter's Constitution modifier.

    Favored Enemy (Ex): When the Fighter gains an additional Favored Enemy the bonus he gets for ALL of his Favored Enemies is increased by +2. The Fighter also gains Skill Mastery for the indicated skills when he is using them against his Favored Enemies. Add Intimidate, Tumble, and Use Rope to the list of skills you gain the bonus on.

    Flawless Charge (Ex): A 4th level Fighter can charge through allies' squares and through difficult terrain without any penalty or reduction to speed. A Fighter of at least 4th level ignores the standard -2 penalty to AC for charging.

    Guts (Ex): A 5th level Fighter gains the benefits of Mettle, but only while he is Raging.

    Indomitable Will (Ex): A 13th level Fighter gains the benefits of Improved Mettle and is immune to Enchantment spells and effects, but only while he is Raging.

    Flawless Movement (Ex): An 18th level Fighter benefits from a constant Freedom of Movement effect at all times.

    So this Fighter is more useful outside of combat, more resilient to the dreaded Will targeting effects, and has much better mobility during combat. Again, the Favored Enemy thing would need to be altered a bit more to fit your campaign setting a bit better, but I like the way it turned out. This is a Fighter that's quite a bit more worldly and with a much wider repertoire of experience to draw from to improve his combat prowess.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-10-14 at 05:30 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I'm not talking about a Core Fighter here, and I didn't think you were either, but maybe we should be better informed of your campaign setting and house rules?
    Well, I've got a list of houserules as long as my arm, but most of them are from an older setting and need to be rethought.

    But this setting is emphasized in being fairly low-magic, with Warlock being the only class with any supernatural abilities whatsoever. With this combination Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger, the only classes are:

    Fighter
    Rogue
    Warlock

    With the obvious categories of Meleer (built here, and as has been pointed out is clearly more than capable of doing it's job), Stealth (yet to really be looked at) and Magic (which I haven't had a chance to study recently, since my books are at another location).

    This is what I came up with after tinkering:
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    The Fighter

    1. Rage 1/day, Endurance
    2. Bonus Feat, Trap Sense +1
    3. Favored Enemy (1st), DR 1/--
    4. Flawless Charge
    5. Bonus Feat, Guts
    6. Rage 2/day, Trap Sense +2, DR 2/--
    7. Favored Enemy (2nd)
    8. Bonus Feat
    9. Flawless Stride, DR 3/--
    10. Greater Rage, Trap Sense +3
    11. Rage 3/day, Bonus Feat
    12. Favored Enemy (3rd), DR 4/--
    13. Indomitable Will
    14. Bonus Feat, Trap Sense +4
    15. Tireless Rage, DR 5/--
    16. Rage 4/day, Favored Enemy (4th)
    17. Bonus Feat, DR 6/--
    18. Trap Sense +5, Flawless Movement
    19. Mighty Rage, DR 7/--
    20. Bonus Feat, Favored Enemy (5th), DR 8/--

    Class Skills (6+Int): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Listen, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, and Use Rope.

    Proficiencies: As Fighter.

    Rage, Favored Enemy, and Indomitable Will are altered, the other features remain the same as standard. The new features are outlined below.

    Rage (Ex): Same but the will save bonus is increased to +4 at Greater Rage and +6 at Mighty Rage.

    Favored Enemy (Ex): When the Fighter gains an additional Favored Enemy the bonus he gets for ALL of his Favored Enemies is increased by +2. The Fighter also gains Skill Mastery for the indicated skills when he is using them against his Favored Enemies. Add Intimidate, Tumble, and Use Rope to the list of skills you gain the bonus on.

    Flawless Charge (Ex): A 4th level Fighter can charge through allies' squares and through difficult terrain without any penalty or reduction to speed. A Fighter of at least 4th level ignores the standard -2 penalty to AC for charging.

    Guts (Ex): A 5th level Fighter gains the benefits of Mettle, but only while he is Raging.

    Indomitable Will (Ex): A 13th level Fighter gains the benefits of Improved Mettle and is immune to Enchantment spells and effects, but only while he is Raging.

    Flawless Movement (Ex): An 18th level Fighter benefits from a constant Freedom of Movement effect at all times.

    So this Fighter is more useful outside of combat, more resilient to the dreaded Will targeting effects, and has much better mobility during combat. Again, the Favored Enemy thing would need to be altered a bit more to fit your campaign setting a bit better, but I like the way it turned out. This is a Fighter that's quite a bit more worldly and with a much wider repertoire of experience to draw from to improve his combat prowess.
    Interesting, but I'd rather keep the class an amalgamation of Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger. Pulling from a wider pool might technically work better, but I'd like to keep the concept where it is. (The concept, mind, not nessicarily the execution.)
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Well, still, I like the concept, and I like your vision of it too. I'd just suggest, from your modified table, losing the Bonus Feat at 1st level. Favored Enemy and Rage is still quite a potent 1st level and you're getting a feat at 2nd and 3rd levels anyway.

    I understand leaving the skills at 4+Int considering I'm sure you want the Stealth guy to be the skills guy (8+Int there, or just 6?), and I'd guess you might combine the camouflage/hide in plain sight Ranger stuff and some Scout features into the Rogue class as well to round it out nicely, which I think is a fine idea. What will you call the Stealth class when you're done? Just Rogue? Because I feel like adding Ranger/Scout into the mix changes the flavor a good deal, but not in a bad way.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Well, still, I like the concept, and I like your vision of it too. I'd just suggest, from your modified table, losing the Bonus Feat at 1st level. Favored Enemy and Rage is still quite a potent 1st level and you're getting a feat at 2nd and 3rd levels anyway.
    I suppose. My only real concern is that I like to keep everything in a neat pattern, and currently the bonus feat pattenr is "every odd level." Nothing at first level seems to break flow a bit.

    I understand leaving the skills at 4+Int considering I'm sure you want the Stealth guy to be the skills guy (8+Int there, or just 6?),
    Rogue willl get 8 skill points.

    and I'd guess you might combine the camouflage/hide in plain sight Ranger stuff and some Scout features into the Rogue class as well to round it out nicely, which I think is a fine idea.
    Minus the Scout stuff (since I don't own Complete Adventurer), that's the plan.

    What will you call the Stealth class when you're done? Just Rogue? Because I feel like adding Ranger/Scout into the mix changes the flavor a good deal, but not in a bad way.
    I'd probably still leave it at rogue. Theres no real catch-all term for "stealth guy." Besides, for gamers at least it gets straight to the point. To quote Yahtzee:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yahtzee
    Another game might try to keep up some pretense of newness and have classes like "Peacekiller" or "Shadowhumper" or "Grot'kov," and nessecitate players sitting with a ****ing glossary on hand, so better to just drop the Trousers of Pretension so everyone understands what you've got swinging around.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Could you throw in smite opposite alignment? That would give it a little of all the core melee classes.
    Fighter: "I can kill someone in a turn."
    Cleric: "I can kill someone in half a turn."
    Wizard: "I can kill someone before my turn."
    Bard: "I can make three idiots kill people for me."

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by firemagehao View Post
    Could you throw in smite opposite alignment? That would give it a little of all the core melee classes.
    There aren't any alignments in the setting I'm building this for, so that'd be a bit pointless. Also nonsensical, fluffwise.

    Some Combat Style feat ideas:

    Archery:
    Tier 1 - Rapid Shot
    Tier 2 - Manyshot
    Tier 3 - Improved Rapid Shot

    Two-Weapon Combat:
    Tier 1 - Two-Weapon Fighting
    Tier 2 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    Tier 3 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

    Mounted Combat:
    Tier 1 - Spirited Charge
    Tier 2 - Trample
    Tier 3 - Cavalry Charger

    Shield Fighting:
    Tier 1 - Phalanx Fighting
    Tier 2 - Shield Slam
    Tier 3 - Formation Expert

    Unarmed Combat Wrestling:
    Tier 1 - Improved Grapple
    Tier 2 - Close-Quarters Fighting
    Tier 3 - Earth's Embrace
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-12-19 at 12:17 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Rage is useless for an archer. Maybe if you made it so that rage changed depending on what combat style you took, it'd work? Also, it'd be cool if he got fast movement in all armors (so that he has a speed of 30, even in heavy armor) and Pounce at a later level.

    Actually, Archery seems to stick out as a style that doesn't fit with the rest of the class. You may be better off having this as your melee'r, and building a similar class for different kinds of ranged combat (e.g. throwing, archery, mounted archery, and... some other kind of ranged combat).

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    While rolling over the abilities of ranger, barbarian and fighter into one class might be a relatively good quick-fix, I wouldn't really call that a "Fighter".
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Rage is useless for an archer. Maybe if you made it so that rage changed depending on what combat style you took, it'd work?
    How is rage useless for an archer? Are there people who don't use composite bows?

    Also, it'd be cool if he got fast movement in all armors (so that he has a speed of 30, even in heavy armor) and Pounce at a later level.
    Fast Movement, sure. Pounce, dunno what that's from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    While rolling over the abilities of ranger, barbarian and fighter into one class might be a relatively good quick-fix, I wouldn't really call that a "Fighter".
    What WOULD you call it, then? It's function, in the setting I'm building it for at least, is "basic martial class." If not Fighter, it'd be something equally generic, like "Warrior."
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-12-19 at 03:14 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    How is rage useless for an archer? Are there people who don't use composite bows?



    Fast Movement, sure. Pounce, dunno what that's from.
    Pounce is an ability that allows you to full attack on a charge.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonsamurai77 View Post
    Pounce is an ability that allows you to full attack on a charge.
    I didn't ask what it was. I was asking where it's from.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    I didn't ask what it was. I was asking where it's from.
    It's in MM1 (and therefore SRD), quite a few monsters have it.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    What WOULD you call it, then? It's function, in the setting I'm building it for at least, is "basic martial class." If not Fighter, it'd be something equally generic, like "Warrior."
    Well, having the rage and the favored enemy, I could probably suppose that the guy's angry at someone/something. In a relatively ordinary setting, I'd probably call the guy something like "Avenger", the class features reflect it quite well.

    If, however, it's generic and every weapon user knows how to handle some creatures better than others, yeah, I'd probably call that a warrior, simply put, not all fighters specialize against someone/something and go into a freaking-nuts frenzy.

    Ow, also, I think you should make the alignment pre-requisite non-lawful, or homebrew an alternative for the lawful guys. Because, well, samurai don't go "RAWR HULKSMASH".
    Last edited by Critical; 2010-12-19 at 03:24 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonsamurai77 View Post
    It's in MM1 (and therefore SRD), quite a few monsters have it.
    Hm. Sensible enough. What level would be an appropriate one to gain it at? Preferably one of the levels where the only class feature is a bonus feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    If, however, it's generic and every weapon user knows how to handle some creatures better than others, yeah, I'd probably call that a warrior, simply put, not all fighters specialize against someone/something and go into a freaking-nuts frenzy.
    Warrior it is, then.

    Ow, also, I think you should make the alignment pre-requisite non-lawful, or homebrew an alternative for the lawful guys. Because, well, samurai don't go "RAWR HULKSMASH".
    If it was Frenzying instead of Raging, I'd agree with you. But the ability to get pissed off is not an explicitly chaotic (or even nonlawful) behavior. There's such a thing as righteous fury, after all. Or even flat-out heroic willpower.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-12-19 at 03:27 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lateral's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Oh, lots of people don't use composite bows. They're expensive at lower levels. Also, it's just not really 'worth it' for an archer. I still think it would be a good idea to have a separate 'ranged' class, as there's more than one way to range and rage is only marginally useful for one or two methods.

    Also? Sheesh, don't get all riled up. Pounce is an ability that some monsters have, and is really useful for a lot of melee. It's a good high-level ability that would be good in this class. (Standard barbarians can trade fast movement for it.)

    Edit: Ah, ninja'ed. 7th, 9th, or 13th is probably appropriate. I like 7th, for some reason.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2010-12-19 at 03:25 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Drakevarg's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Quick Fighter "Fix" (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Oh, lots of people don't use composite bows. They're expensive at lower levels. Also, it's just not really 'worth it' for an archer. I still think it would be a good idea to have a separate 'ranged' class, as there's more than one way to range and rage is only marginally useful for one or two methods.
    Since archers tend to be squishier than front-line soldiers, I might roll them with my modified Rogue class, since I was gonna put the leftover stealth-based features from Ranger in there anyway.

    Edit: Ah, ninja'ed. 7th, 9th, or 13th is probably appropriate. I like 7th, for some reason.
    I agree. Especially since this is a low-powered setting and Level 7 is the highest most career soldiers ever get. (13 being beyond elite, like Red Cell-scary.)
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