Jovar

[mootoall]

Pretty good weapon, am I right? Greatsword damage, 18-20 crit range and a X2 crit multiplier? I like it! Sure, it costs EWP, and I'd always pick a spiked chain over it for a fighter build, but it's nice and flavorful for, say, a charger paladin, no?

[Greenish]

Are you sure it's x3? If it is, it's a grand weapon for anyone fishing for some crits. If it's just x2, it's minor upgrade over falchion or greatsword.

[Zaq]

It's definitely one of the least bad exotic weapons. It's still not worth a feat (the benefits of it over a greatsword are just too small), but there are worse weapons out there.

[mootoall]

Are you sure it's x3? If it is, it's a grand weapon for anyone fishing for some crits. If it's just x2, it's minor upgrade over falchion or greatsword.

Whoops, no, it's X2 ... my bad, I think I mistook it for something in Frostburn with decent damage and X3 ...

[Greenish]

Whoops, no, it's X2 ... my bad, I think I mistook it for something in Frostburn with decent damage and X3 ...

Yeah. I'd rather use a falchion.

[Morithias]

Check Monster Manuel 4. Greathammer near the Great Minotaur. 1d12 medium damage, 19-20 crit rage, times 4 crit mod.

Next to spike chain this is what I consider the top exotic weapon in terms of brute killing power.

[Greenish]

Check Monster Manuel 4. Greathammer near the Great Minotaur. 1d12 medium damage, 19-20 crit rage, times 4 crit mod.

Next to spike chain this is what I consider the top exotic weapon in terms of brute killing power.

Ribbon Jovar: 2d6, 18-20/x4.

[mootoall]

Check Monster Manuel 4. Greathammer near the Great Minotaur. 1d12 medium damage, 19-20 crit rage, times 4 crit mod.

Next to spike chain this is what I consider the top exotic weapon in terms of brute killing power.

Huh. Well, it's about as broken as the rest of MMIV ...

[Morithias]

Ribbon Jovar: 2d6, 18-20/x4.

If that's like that, what's the point of using the normal Jovar? What book are these two in?

[Greenish]

If that's like that, what's the point of using the normal Jovar?

Because getting powerful evil outsiders to make you weapons from their own poo is not always an option.

[Edit]: Kaorti Resin.

[mootoall]

If that's like that, what's the point of using the normal Jovar? What book are these two in?

Jovar's in Planar Handbook. Ribbon Jovar is, I believe, one made with Kaorti Resin? Maybe? That's what google tells me ...

[Akal Saris]

Yeah, you've nailed it. I'm surprised that little couple of paragraphs on Kaorti resin has remained so memorable, given that it's part of the 'Epic encounters' series about a race of beings that loathe all living beings and seek to transform them into twisted, gas-breathing monstrosities like themselves.

[T.G. Oskar]

Yeah, you've nailed it. I'm surprised that little couple of paragraphs on Kaorti resin has remained so memorable, given that it's part of the 'Epic encounters' series about a race of beings that loathe all living beings and seek to transform them into twisted, gas-breathing monstrosities like themselves.

And what better way to do so than delivering hard-to-use weapons that can, if lucky, deliver doom in one strike? Even more if you add Imp. Critical to that weapon, or make the weapon Keen (15-20/x4!?).

But recall the important trick: you need to be proficient in the ribbon version of the weapon, so you get all that power for the cost of one or two feats.

Having said that: Jovar is just too nice. Ribbon Jovar is about the strongest of the weapons you can get, alongside Minotaur Greathammer, Ribbon Elven Courtblade, Falchion, and a few others I don't seem to recall very well. Which delivers some utility when compared to, say, Spiked Chain (free trips!) or Gnomish Quickrazors (+ Iaijutsu Focus). Considering melee fighters should get all the love they can get (aside from the elegy that is ToB) and that while you're trigger-happy with that 2d6 + 1.5xStr times 4 about 30% of the times, the Wizard still owns you and your descendants for the next 10 generations doesn't seem like an unfair exchange.

Oh, I almost forgot Great Crossbow ;)

[Douglas]

Yeah, you've nailed it. I'm surprised that little couple of paragraphs on Kaorti resin has remained so memorable, given that it's part of the 'Epic encounters' series about a race of beings that loathe all living beings and seek to transform them into twisted, gas-breathing monstrosities like themselves.

It's so well known for a very simple reason: it is the one and only official RAW 3.5 WotC general purpose way to increase a weapon's crit multiplier without affecting its crit range, and its nominal cost (ignoring the fluff details about how hard it might be to acquire) is actually pretty low.

[Morithias]

Now all you have to do is talk the DM into letting you forge a ring that lets you "treat all weapons you use as if they were made of iron", and add on disciple of dispater.

9-20 x4 2d6 weapon anyone?

[Vizzerdrix]

Meh. I'd rather just use the Ripper and save the feat.

[Joshinthemosh]

Now all you have to do is talk the DM into letting you forge a ring that lets you "treat all weapons you use as if they were made of iron", and add on disciple of dispater.

9-20 x4 2d6 weapon anyone?

You know my DM(who bans Disciple of Dispater) read it as your theat range doubles and then that new crit range triples. If this happens to be done with Improved Crit already applied then he rules it looks like this

Pg 60 BoVD

Spoiler

Show

Iron Power (Ex): When using an iron or steel weapon, a
4th-level disciple of Dispater gains a +1 insight bonus on
attack and damage rolls. Furthermore, his threat range is
doubled as if he were using a keen weapon. At 8th level, the
insight bonus improves to +2, and the threat range triples.
This ability does not stack with the keen weapon quality, but
it does stack with the Improved Critical feat.

Jovar-18-20
Improved Crit Jovar-15-20
Improved Crit and 4th level DoD-10-20
Improved Crit and 8th level DoD-...................-20-20. That's right. I could roll a negative 20 and still hit by his ruling. I refuse to correct him.


Also if we're talking about making this weapon more awesome than it already is, make it a Heavy weapon(Magic of Faerun) and add Strongarm Bracers.

That means by my DMs rulings (I think I've got this right) a Heavy Ribbon Jovar with Improved Crit is

4d6 -20-20/x4

Melee is back baby.

[Calmar]

Jovars are Underpowered in d20...

[Greenish]

Improved Crit and 8th level DoD-...................-20-20. That's right. I could roll a negative 20 and still hit by his ruling. I refuse to correct him.

Even if you somehow managed to roll -20, it's not an automatic hit, though it threatens critical. Only nat 20 is automatic hit, not every threat.

Also if we're talking about making this weapon more awesome than it already is, make it a Heavy weapon(Magic of Faerun) and add Strongarm Bracers.

I believe Heavy quality comes from the material used in construction, and as such wouldn't work with kaorti poo.

[Joshinthemosh]

I believe Heavy quality comes from the material used in construction, and as such wouldn't work with kaorti poo.

Curses you correct sir. I would like to believe that its a layer around a blade but no.

[AyeGill]

Improved crit x2
disciple of dispater x3
jovar 18-20
18-20= 3 numbers.
x2 + x3 = x4 by dnd rules.
3x4=12
9-20 = 12 numbers.

I think i recall a feat somewhere that increased the threat range by 1...

[Morithias]

Improved crit x2
disciple of dispater x3
jovar 18-20
18-20= 3 numbers.
x2 + x3 = x4 by dnd rules.
3x4=12
9-20 = 12 numbers.

I think i recall a feat somewhere that increased the threat range by 1...

There's even a class in sword and fist that boosts the range by 2 (7-20) but most importantly, increases the multiplier. Times 5 baby.

[herrhauptmann]

Jovar-18-20
Improved Crit Jovar-15-20
Improved Crit and 4th level DoD-10-20
Improved Crit and 8th level DoD-...................-20-20. That's right. I could roll a negative 20 and still hit by his ruling. I refuse to correct him.


Also if we're talking about making this weapon more awesome than it already is, make it a Heavy weapon(Magic of Faerun) and add Strongarm Bracers.

[Heavy] is gold or platinum. So no kaorti resin heavy weapons.
Also, you're stacking your multipliers wrong. Doubling a double, is equal to a triple, not a quadruple.

[Keld Denar]

You are paying EWP for a 1x size increase from a Falchion. Falchions are 2d4, 18-20 x2 and martial. Jovar's are 2d6 18-20 x2 and exotic. Thats a whole feat for a 1 point average damage and 2 point max damage increase. Contrast with Weapon Specialization, a feat for a +2 average AND max damage increase, and that's generally considered a pretty crappy feat.

Unless of course you are investing a ton of resources to scale effective size as high as possible, and then you'd still probably be better off starting with a Greatsword and missing out on the 1 point of extra crit threat range. Or better yet, use a bludgeoning weapon that you can cast Greater Mighty Wallop on and blow them all out of the water...

[T.G. Oskar]

You are paying EWP for a 1x size increase from a Falchion. Falchions are 2d4, 18-20 x2 and martial. Jovar's are 2d6 18-20 x2 and exotic. Thats a whole feat for a 1 point average damage and 2 point max damage increase. Contrast with Weapon Specialization, a feat for a +2 average AND max damage increase, and that's generally considered a pretty crappy feat.

Unless of course you are investing a ton of resources to scale effective size as high as possible, and then you'd still probably be better off starting with a Greatsword and missing out on the 1 point of extra crit threat range. Or better yet, use a bludgeoning weapon that you can cast Greater Mighty Wallop on and blow them all out of the water...

While generally the size increase would be a 1 point average (2d4 goes to 5, 2d6 goes to...actually, it goes to 7, so it'd be a 2 point increase), it's on the weighted damage and crit multipliers where the Jovar shows it's utility.

Remember that, while Falchion can be used without any feat, getting to use Ribbon weapons still requires the feat (since you can't use Ribbon weapons without the EWP that allows it), and you don't need two feats to use a Ribbon (Kaorti resin) Jovar. With that x4 increase, that means at least 8 points, which is like taking Collision AND Weapon Specialization and still have a +1 bonus to damage.

Then factor in size increases, and you'll get a good idea why Jovar is a great choice compared to a Falchion (albeit less expensive, of course). Greatsword is even less on the fact that while you get the same increase in regular damage as the Jovar, you get less of an increase when factoring the chances of landing a critical hit (and even more with Imp. Critical or the keen enhancement).

So, while regularly you might be getting roughly the same benefit as the Weapon Specialization feat, the fact that you don't need two feats to get the same benefit (if we're comparing Ribbon Falchion with WS to Ribbon Jovar, of course) is what makes it better. I mean, you're already going the extra mile: you're making your weapon of an extremely rare material that makes critical hits hurt like heck, and you're gonna eat a feat no matter what. It's one of the few weapons with 18-20 and a pretty good deal of damage as well; might as well showcase it along with Elven Courtblade and Minotaur Greathammer, no?

Speaking of Minotaur Greathammer...I think that was what you were speaking off when suggesting Greater Mighty Wallop, no? It's...not like someone who actually goes into combat WILL be able to cast GMWallop, though; that'd be tantamount to, say, trusting that you'll get partially charged wands or friendly casters to buff you. But I do admit: Minotaur Greathammer + GMWallop blows everything out of the water...sans people with DR X/slashing (of which there are actually a few, compared to DR X/bludgeoning). Too bad Enlarge Weapon doesn't increase weapons any further (but Expansion, though, is a good idea for both Min. Greathammer and Ribbon Jovar).

Besides, at least it's not like...say, kama or nunchaku or sai or siangham or any of the two-hand exotic weapons in the PHB (sans spiked chain, but that's well known why it's so good). You'll rarely find a better combination of things on a slashing 2-hander weapon, I'd say (then again, you can prove me wrong; I don't mind).

[Greenish]

Because getting powerful evil outsiders to make you weapons from their own poo is not always an option.

Though I note that Kaorti are listed as denizens of Xoriat, the Realm of Madness, so you could ask your Planar Shepherd buddy to make you one.

(If you have a Planar Shepherd buddy, your DM should be okay with a 15-20/x4 weapon.)