[3.x] Attacking with multiple weapons (not TWFing)

[Keld Denar]

Ok, so I swear I remember seeing this text somewhere, but I just poored over my 3.5 PHB and I can't find it. The text had something to do with a high BAB character making muliple attacks with muliple weapons, but not TWFing. I think the example given was Tordek the dwarf. He had like, 3 attacks from his BAB of +11 or higher, and he made one attack with a sword (+11), one attack with a weapon that wasn't that sword (+6), and one attack with a weapon that wasn't either (+1). Someone was asking me about it, and now I can't for the life of me find that text. I seriously just read the combat chapter of my 3.5 PHB 3 times, and I also checked the section on BAB at the start of the classes chapter and the glossery.

Am I really crazy and making this up? Can anyone else find rules that support this? Does anyone have a 3.0 PHB they could check really quickly and see if maybe the text is there and didn't survive the edition change?

[true_shinken]

Maybe it's on Sword & Fist...? I vaguely remember something similar.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think I saw it on a FAQ printed in the back of my copy of PHB 3.0

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC you only incur in TWF penalties if you claim the extra attacks given by TWF; extrapolating from that if you had enough BAB (and limbs or weapons to drop and quick draw) you could make attacks with different weapons using your normal itteratives.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, I need a direct rule stating such though. I know it exists, I just can't find it...

[Person_Man]

You can swap between various weapons as a free action, as long as you're not drawing a new weapon (which requires Quickdraw). A good example is when you have a reach weapon and a non-reach weapon, such as a guisarme and armor spikes. First attack two attacks at an enemy 10 feet away with your guisarme, last attack against an enemy 5 feet away with your armor spikes. Another example is when you have Claws and a two handed weapon. You can make your normal attack routine with your two handed weapon, then hold your weapon with your right hand and attack with your left claw, then hold your weapon in your left hand and attack with your right claw. (Although many DMs I know won't allow this, because WotC did such a cruddy job writing the rules for natural weapons).

There's a citation in the FAQ, if you need an official source.

[Keld Denar]

I checked the FAQ, and about all I could find was this:

Q) When you normally get to make more than one attack a round, and you are wielding two weapons, do you get to add your full base attack bonus on one attack or both? Would a 6th-level fighter count the +6 base attack bonus for the first attack and the +1 for the second? Would you get +6 on both the first two attacks and a +1 on the third and fourth?

A) Your full base attack bonus applies on the first attack you make with each hand. In the case of a 6th-level fighter wielding two weapons, he uses his full +6 base attack bonus on the first attack with his primary hand and on the first attack with his off hand. His second attack with his primary hand has a base attack bonus of +1, and if he has a second attack with his off hand (for example, if he has Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), it also has a base attack bonus of +1.

Not so helpful. Anyone else have any idea? Can you really attack with two different weapons, one at +6 and one at +1, for example, without TWFing?

[herrhauptmann]

Maybe it's in that 3.0 character builder book. You know, that one that gives examples of each of the named characters at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20.

Edit:
And yes, as far as I know, using your +11 attack to hit with a sword, shield bashing with your +6, and kicking them in the junk with an unarmed strike on your +1 attack is completely valid.
Documentation? Not a clue. But it's a person with 3 total attacks, making only 3 attacks, not 4+.

[Person_Man]

FAQ pg 44

Can a character with Quick Draw and a base attack bonus of +6 or better make a melee attack with one weapon and a ranged attack with another weapon in the same round? What if the melee weapon requires two hands to
wield?

Yes. There’s nothing inherent in the full attack action that requires all the attacks to be made as the same kind of attack or with the same kind of weapon.

A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger (another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base
attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot the bow (using his base attack bonus –5).

This situation is actually improved if the melee weapon is a two-handed weapon. A character can hold a two-handed weapon in one hand; he just can’t attack with it while it’s held like that. Thus, he wouldn’t even have to drop the weapon in order to draw and throw the dagger. If Krusk the 6th-level barbarian had Quick Draw, he could swing his greataxe (using
his full base attack bonus), then leave the axe in his off-hand while drawing a javelin with his primary hand (free action), and finally throw the javelin (using his base attack bonus –5). If Krusk were drawing a ranged weapon that required two hands to use (such as a bow), he’d have to drop his greataxe.


The example above uses Quickdraw, but I think it's generalizable. But FAQ is basically just compiled Sage Advice, which isn't necessarily RAW. So IMO, the rule is whatever your DM says.

[dextercorvia]

There is a lot in there that assumes primary/off-hand. I thought they did away with that in 3.5 unless you were TWFing.

[tyckspoon]

There is a lot in there that assumes primary/off-hand. I thought they did away with that in 3.5 unless you were TWFing.

In that context, 'primary hand' just means "the hand you are using to attack with at the moment", and 'off-hand' is only "the hand that is not doing anything special." It has no mechanical impact unless you are TWFing.