Dark Heresy: Harlock Trilogy

[panaikhan]

I bought this for our GM as an xmas present, as he (and a few others including myself) have been itching to play Dark Heresy for a while now.

Without spoiling the plot(s), what would be a good rounded group to tackle DH?
I have some character ideas myself, but I want to make sure we don't overlook something extremely basic (I'm always willing to play "no-one else wants one" classes, for the sake of party balance)

[MickJay]

Well, in general:

Adepts, while relatively weak in combat, will provide you with all the common, scholastic and forbidden knowledges you'll need; can become quite competent medics as well.

Arbitrators tend to make strong, well-rounded combat characters, and get to have some extra skills.

Assassins are good for infiltration and combat.

Clerics are probably the most versatile of classes, getting a good selection of combat abilities, they excel with social skills, some knowledges and other skills and talents.

Guardsmen are good for fighting, and (almost) nothing else, except perhaps driving; can be fairly boring to play.

Psykers are highly dangerous to everyone around them, and most of all to themselves. Possibly best avoided, since just by attempting to use their powers they can screw up pretty much any plan you had. On the other hand, when their powers work as intended, from Psy rating 2, they tend to overshadow everyone else.

Scums tend to be uninteresting in games that do not revolve around dealing with underworld and criminals.

Techpriests get quite powerful at later levels, but if you don't have to deal with many complex machines, you can do without one (as long as someone's got Tech Use).

Sororitas are tricky to play, possibly best avoided for inexperienced players.

Personally, I'd see a balanced team including: an Adept, Cleric, Arbitrator/Guardsman, Assassin/Scum, and/or a Techpriest, and/or Psyker, depending on the number of players.

[Psyx]

A good rounded group would be the best good rounded group.

Pykers are OP, and then they die. The rules implementation is a bit poor. Best if you can talk everyone out of playing one, for everyone's sake, really.

Tech-priests are a bit OP as well, having awesome skills and awesome combat blag too. However, they completely screw over the party in 80% of scenarios, because they don't even look human and destroy any chance of blending in anywhere, or working undercover. Again: Best avoided if you want to keep on you GM's good side.

Sororitas and Clerics are a bit of a nightmare to integrate as well, as they are by canon frothing heresy-slaying loons, who will brook no leniency. 40k religion isn't very 'nice' or forgiving. Having one along basically forces the party to take certain options, as dealing with filthy xenos, heretical acts and similar no longer become options. Sororitas are by far the worst for it, but they're in an expansion anyway. You also run the risk of infiltrating a cult before the Cleric throws off his robes and screams 'filthy heretics' and blowing your cover.

[Kaun]

Sororitas and Clerics are a bit of a nightmare to integrate as well, as they are by canon frothing heresy-slaying loons, who will brook no leniency. 40k religion isn't very 'nice' or forgiving. Having one along basically forces the party to take certain options, as dealing with filthy xenos, heretical acts and similar no longer become options. Sororitas are by far the worst for it, but they're in an expansion anyway. You also run the risk of infiltrating a cult before the Cleric throws off his robes and screams 'filthy heretics' and blowing your cover.

Inquisitors generaly choose acolytes that are suited to the task at hand and in most cases that is skilled people who can ignore the small evils and focus on the big picture. If your cleric goes into a frenzy at the first signe of heresy he is unlikly to be utalised in anything but a kill squad role or scaring the locals.

Ow and on Psykers - they are by far the most powerful choice in the game, there is a risk to their powers but it doesnt come into play as much as you would think. Even less if you play the psyker smart.

[Psyx]

Inquisitors generaly choose acolytes that are suited to the task at hand and in most cases that is skilled people who can ignore the small evils and focus on the big picture. If your cleric goes into a frenzy at the first signe of heresy he is unlikly to be utalised in anything but a kill squad role or scaring the locals.

That's how the 40k world would work, not how games work. Players choose what they want to play and play it. If someone chooses to play a cleric who is very religious (and...y'know, they kind of should be. It's pretty much the point!), then it immediately corrals the GM as regards the scenarios he can run.

Ow and on Psykers - they are by far the most powerful choice in the game, there is a risk to their powers but it doesnt come into play as much as you would think. Even less if you play the psyker smart.

Even more if you play the GM smart. Psykers are ridiculously easy to kill if the GM thinks that they are getting at all out of hand. And those rolls on the perils of the warp table WILL kill a player fairly quickly by RAW.

[misterk]

I would steer clear of tech priests as, as mentioned, they just don't blend in, making them ridiculous for most of what DH involves. If you're going for a straight up horror/combat campaign then thats probably ok though.

The party will probably want people who can be talky, and clerics are good for that (also, if, like me, you enjoy pitting the ecclesiarchy against the inquisition, this can be fun!), you can almost always live without adepts if you want, and as mentioned psykers are a little ovwerpowered. you can balance this by focusing on the social discrimination that psykers face- in 40k psykers are basically second class citizens who have to be quite careful not be to burnt alive by an angry mob...

[Psyx]

...And of course Psykers are also a pain for undercover work, with those Sanctioning brands.

[Sir Swindle89]

A Sororitas and Clerics are a bit of a nightmare to integrate as well, as they are by canon frothing heresy-slaying loons, who will brook no leniency. 40k religion isn't very 'nice' or forgiving. Having one along basically forces the party to take certain options, as dealing with filthy xenos, heretical acts and similar no longer become options. Sororitas are by far the worst for it, but they're in an expansion anyway. You also run the risk of infiltrating a cult before the Cleric throws off his robes and screams 'filthy heretics' and blowing your cover.

I have to disagree with this also. There's a reason the acaloyte is not still at their day job (like being a borderline heretic). Also for all intents and purposes an inquisitor may aswell be the Emperor so the zelots better behave as is demanded (or the are complete heretics )

[Zen Master]

Without wanting to point fingers at anyone or telling anyone how to play, it still feels like some of you enjoy making strait jackets for yourselves.

The Emperium of Man is vast, bordering on infinite. Literally millions of stars many of which house many billions of souls. With everything Dark Heresy portrays of radicals, and all that mass of humanity to chose from, there's really no need for all those self-inflicted limitations.

There are rogue tech-priests. There are faithless priests. There are corrupt arbitrators, gutless guardsmen and runaway psykers - there will even be space marine defectors and renegade inquisitors.

In fact, corruption of all the Emperium stands for is very much at the core of Dark Heresy.

The way I see it, yes - a tech priest stands out in a crowd. But that in no way means anyone can guess his motivations, or should automatically distrust him (well not anymore than all other tech priests - and frankly I'd say most people see tech priests as an opportunity rather than a threat. Lots of shady deals can be made with the Adepts of Mars.).

[panaikhan]

Thank you all for your input on this.
Not having played DH before, and seeing some of the comments, what is the play style like?
I've played Cthulhu, Shadowrun, D&D, cyberpunk and the Palladium series.

[Psyx]

As regards straightjacketing; 40k isn't a nice place to be. The VAST majority of the population are treated like mushrooms and are very religious. Supersticion is a massive part of everyone's life, and the culture is pretty medieval in outlook. Of course, many players tend to always want to play the loose cannon in such settings and break all the rules, basically playing 'normal' people in the very abnormal 40k universe. I personally think that's a shame. If I want to play a money-grabbing renegade with guns, I'll play Shadowrun/CP2020. The joy of playing in the 40k universe is -for me- embracing all the religious mania, superstition around technology, blinkered xenophobia and fascism. All of those things should be the norm for most of the characters. Otherwise... why play in the setting?

I've been running a campaign of DH for over a year now, and I'm pleased that my players all feel the same way: The Cadian guardsman is a dangerous psychopath, but relentlessly follows the edicts of the Imperium. Likewise, the Necromundan gang-member turned Interrogator is covered in pro-Imperial tattoos and will happily put a bolt round through anyone who even THINKS about heresy. Even the psyker is a hard-core religious maniac (it's hard not to be when you've stood at the feet of a living god) who is obsessive compulsive in his puritanical lifestyle. A Cleric in the party would probably do fine, but one with any faith at all would be hard-pressed to tolerate a party who were dabbling in heresy.

Tech-priests really aren't common enough to not attract attention anywhere that's not a forgeworld or hive world. And remember: Many planets are not up to 'standard' tech levels, either. That further limits the GM on where to send a tech-priest's party on subtle missions.

The playstyle is really down to the GM and players. You *could* turn it into a gun-fest of killing and powergaming quite easily, but if you're going to do that: Play Deathwatch instead. That's kinda what it's there for.
The game's strength is essentially that it's a bit like CoC, but you have a chance of not dying when the plot and the monster at the end of the adventure is unveiled.

At lower levels the party are flimsy, and should rightfully flee from a single Genestealer. But by rank 8 they'll be able to handle themselves well, and can deal with some very nasty critters. I essentially run the game as very investigation-based, with a lot of plots, subtle clues and CoC-like stuff going on. Maybe a bit X-files (Although currently they're on a planet that rather resembles Borderlands' Pandora). And then when they figure it all out, they get to gun stuff down with bolt pistols!

[Zen Master]

As regards straightjacketing; 40k isn't a nice place to be. The VAST majority of the population are treated like mushrooms and are very religious. Supersticion is a massive part of everyone's life, and the culture is pretty medieval in outlook. Of course, many players tend to always want to play the loose cannon in such settings and break all the rules, basically playing 'normal' people in the very abnormal 40k universe. I personally think that's a shame. If I want to play a money-grabbing renegade with guns, I'll play Shadowrun/CP2020. The joy of playing in the 40k universe is -for me- embracing all the religious mania, superstition around technology, blinkered xenophobia and fascism. All of those things should be the norm for most of the characters. Otherwise... why play in the setting?

I've been running a campaign of DH for over a year now, and I'm pleased that my players all feel the same way: The Cadian guardsman is a dangerous psychopath, but relentlessly follows the edicts of the Imperium. Likewise, the Necromundan gang-member turned Interrogator is covered in pro-Imperial tattoos and will happily put a bolt round through anyone who even THINKS about heresy. Even the psyker is a hard-core religious maniac (it's hard not to be when you've stood at the feet of a living god) who is obsessive compulsive in his puritanical lifestyle. A Cleric in the party would probably do fine, but one with any faith at all would be hard-pressed to tolerate a party who were dabbling in heresy.

Tech-priests really aren't common enough to not attract attention anywhere that's not a forgeworld or hive world. And remember: Many planets are not up to 'standard' tech levels, either. That further limits the GM on where to send a tech-priest's party on subtle missions.

The playstyle is really down to the GM and players. You *could* turn it into a gun-fest of killing and powergaming quite easily, but if you're going to do that: Play Deathwatch instead. That's kinda what it's there for.
The game's strength is essentially that it's a bit like CoC, but you have a chance of not dying when the plot and the monster at the end of the adventure is unveiled.

At lower levels the party are flimsy, and should rightfully flee from a single Genestealer. But by rank 8 they'll be able to handle themselves well, and can deal with some very nasty critters. I essentially run the game as very investigation-based, with a lot of plots, subtle clues and CoC-like stuff going on. Maybe a bit X-files (Although currently they're on a planet that rather resembles Borderlands' Pandora). And then when they figure it all out, they get to gun stuff down with bolt pistols!

Point for point I agree with all you say. Except, I wouldn't let my game be limited by any of it. Yes, the world is so-and-so. Yes, the population live in such-and-such conditions, and are fed misinformation to protect them from the truth. And so on.

And yet, and yet - if one of my players wants to harness the power of the warp to fight the daemons, then so be it. Of course, that's sure to backfire sooner or later - but I wont stop them, or tell them how 'that's not how a sanctioned psyker would act!'

Basically, I think there is a wider scope of play. It does however somewhat (more or less depending on where you go) reduce the 40k feel of the thing. If everyone want a strict 40k game - go for that. But if your players are like mine - highly impulsive - then go with whatever makes the game fun for everyone. Which in my case wouldn't be the strict 40k interpretation.

[LCP]

Not having played DH before, and seeing some of the comments, what is the play style like?

I think one of the sourcebooks (I can't remember which one) suggests that DH adventures fall into three categories - action, investigation and horror - and I'd be inclined to agree. The composition of your group of PCs (i.e. how combat-competent you are) and the preferences of the players determine the ideal mix, but those three are essentially what the system does.

Action: the combat system is unforgiving and dangerous, so combat is often an enjoyable challenge: surprise, planning and use of environmental factors often decide things, so it encourages players to fight clever and can generate some fun cinematic stuff. Equipment makes a big difference, so considering that your team is Inquisition-sponsored, provided they are actually trained fighters, there ought to be at least some fights they can win and look cool in without breaking too much of a sweat.

Investigation: all the background material is keyed towards this, right down to the players being Inquisitorial Acolytes. Every sourcebook is packed with a Dark Secret or three to give you ideas; the only issue is that Skill Tests can often be annoyingly random due to the low level that most PC stats start at, so it's best to be sparing with them, and carefully consider the Difficulty you assign.

Horror: For every two-bit ganger your Arbitrator can put down without a struggle, there are umpty-one Xenos/Daemonic/Heretech monstrosities that will rip him in two in the blink of an eye. The feel of the universe supports it, there are a ton of really weird and horrible monsters to choose from - and again, the combat system comes in to make such things a very immediate threat, since they don't have to reach ludicrous levels of power to be able to one-shot the PCs.

[Psyx]

And yet, and yet - if one of my players wants to harness the power of the warp to fight the daemons, then so be it. Of course, that's sure to backfire sooner or later - but I wont stop them, or tell them how 'that's not how a sanctioned psyker would act!'

As a GM, I wouldn't dream of stepping in and saying 'no', or shooting them in the face for suggesting it. However, if it's suggested by a player then the likelihood is that in most groups 'typical' of the 40k world, they'll be in hot water with the other PCs in fairly short order, and very possibly shot on the spot!

Essentially, it's hard to play a 'Hudson' type loose cannon or radical in a DH party because it pushes believability that it would be tolerated or not noted by the others (who are playing characters more typical of the setting). The exception is obviously if the whole party are the type of PCs who are quite happy with heresy, dealing with demons and treating technology as merely machines... which then cuts to the 'so why aren't you playing Shadowrun' thing.

Essentially, it really helps to have the whole party on-board with the xenophobic, religiously intolerant space-fascist thing.