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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    War Paint:

    Item:

    War paint is any kind of paint that can be used to make the wearer more frightening. A disguise check determines whether the application of the paint is successful. If the application is successful this gives the wearer a +2 circumstance bonus on Intimidate checks, and a -2 penalty to Diplomacy checks. If the application is unsuccessful, the wearer only receives a -2 penalty to Diplomacy. The bonuses and penalties only apply if the war paint contrasts the wearerís skin. The paint stays on the wearers skin for up to 3 days, by which time it smudges and looses effectiveness. The paint may be removed by washing it off with water.

    Price: 5gp

    The Disguise Check:

    The painter makes a DC 15 disguise check to determine if the application of war paint is successful. If the painter is the wearer, he takes a -2 penalty to make the disguise check unless he has a mirror. For every 5 points the painter passes the check DC the circumstance bonus to intimidate increases by +1. Additionally, a disguise kit doesnít provide the regular bonus to the disguise check. If you have 5 ranks in the Profession (Make Up Artist) skill, add a +2 synergy bonus to the disguise check. You may take 10 normally when making this check, but you may only take 20, if there is a water source available to remove the paint and at least two more units of war paint. Applying the paint takes 10 minutes. Taking 20 takes 1 hour and uses up all three units of war paint.

    This is the bit I'm not quite so sure on:

    It is possible to hire a make up artist for the application of War Paint. The costs are as follows:

    {table=head]Make up Artistís ability | Check Result (Taking 10) | Price (gp)
    Competent | 15 | 6
    Experienced | 20 | 18
    Specialist | 25 | 36
    Master | 30 | 66[/table]

    Here's how I got the check results:
    Competent: 3 ranks +2 Cha Bonus (Level 1) = +5
    Experienced: 6 ranks +2 Cha Bonus + 2 synergy (Level 3) = +10
    Specialist: +8 ranks + 3 Cha Bonus + 2 synergy + 2 (Aid from assistant) (Level 5) = +15
    Master: +10 ranks + 4 Cha Bonus + 2 synergy + 4 (Aid from 2 assistants) (Level 7) = +20
    Last edited by Samm; 2011-01-14 at 08:39 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Iituem's Avatar

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Base item is pretty reasonable. No complaints there. (Though a true taking twenty would take three hours.)

    The gp values are probably out, though. Let's think about the benefits gained.

    DC 15 = +2/-2 (basic effect, modifier switch)
    DC 20 = +3 (+1 net bonus)
    DC 25 = +4 (+2 net bonus)
    DC 30 = +5 (+3 net bonus)

    The war paint itself will last 3 days, but is not a permanent item for skill bonuses. What you are paying for is not having to take ranks in the skill yourself.

    Is 15gp worth a +2 Intim bonus for the next three days? Yes, totally, if you're a PC. If you're anyone else, five months' wages probably isn't worth it.

    Is 640gp worth a +5 Intim bonus for the next three days? Decidedly not. For 640gp I can fit out an entire batallion with weapons and armour.

    I mean, normally I would use hireling costs to do this, but that may be unbalanced on the other end of the scale. Using a base of 6sp/day as the cost (the cost of hiring a level 1 fighter or level 2 mercenary for a day):

    Competent: 6sp (for level 1)
    Experienced: 18sp (for level 3)
    Specialist: 36sp (for level 5, plus 1 level 1 apprentice)
    Master: 66sp (for level 7, plus 2 level 2 apprentices)

    Of course you're probably wanting these applied in a dangerous situation, so it might be more balanced to increase these fees tenfold as 'danger pay' to fit a PC's salary. In this case you are still charging a total of 71gp for your 3 days of +5 Intimidation, per person, which seems more reasonable.
    Various Homebrew: Why not check it out? You're unlikely to be disappointed.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Iituem View Post
    Base item is pretty reasonable. No complaints there. (Though a true taking twenty would take three hours.)
    Yeah, but I figured that 3 hours would take a little too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iituem View Post
    The gp values are probably out, though. Let's think about the benefits gained.

    DC 15 = +2/-2 (basic effect, modifier switch)
    DC 20 = +3 (+1 net bonus)
    DC 25 = +4 (+2 net bonus)
    DC 30 = +5 (+3 net bonus)

    The war paint itself will last 3 days, but is not a permanent item for skill bonuses. What you are paying for is not having to take ranks in the skill yourself.

    Is 15gp worth a +2 Intim bonus for the next three days? Yes, totally, if you're a PC. If you're anyone else, five months' wages probably isn't worth it.

    Is 640gp worth a +5 Intim bonus for the next three days? Decidedly not. For 640gp I can fit out an entire batallion with weapons and armour.

    I mean, normally I would use hireling costs to do this, but that may be unbalanced on the other end of the scale. Using a base of 6sp/day as the cost (the cost of hiring a level 1 fighter or level 2 mercenary for a day):

    Competent: 6sp (for level 1)
    Experienced: 18sp (for level 3)
    Specialist: 36sp (for level 5, plus 1 level 1 apprentice)
    Master: 66sp (for level 7, plus 2 level 2 apprentices)

    Of course you're probably wanting these applied in a dangerous situation, so it might be more balanced to increase these fees tenfold as 'danger pay' to fit a PC's salary. In this case you are still charging a total of 71gp for your 3 days of +5 Intimidation, per person, which seems more reasonable.
    Okay. I see where we're at. I'll change the values accordingly. I was really unsure of the prices myself actually. Thank you.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Does the cost of hiring someone cover the material costs, or do you have to buy paint separately? Also, the prices Iituem listed are in silver pieces, not gold pieces. You have them listed in GP.

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    Iituem's Avatar

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Arr, but then I specified that it might be more balanced to increase then tenfold, i.e. to gold pieces.
    Various Homebrew: Why not check it out? You're unlikely to be disappointed.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Does the cost of hiring someone cover the material costs, or do you have to buy paint separately? Also, the prices Iituem listed are in silver pieces, not gold pieces. You have them listed in GP.
    No. This doesn't include the price of the War Paint itself and Iiteum actually told me to increase it tenfold, as I'm pretty sure he'll agree.
    Last edited by Samm; 2010-12-22 at 03:46 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    I like it.

    The rules are quite simple, it works as it should and there's no wierdness going on. It's especially useful to low level parties, and priced appropriately.

    You may want to look at the various other things that give a bonus to intimidate, to see if you should change the bonus type. IIRC the Kreshnar Mask totem chakra bind from Magic of Incarnum makes your face look like it's turned inside out, giving you a +4 competence bonus, and an additional +2 per point of essentia investment. A MW Intimidate tool would be 50gp and it lasts forever, +2 circumstance flat.

    Despite the obvious price anomoly, I like how you've made it scalable, kudos - it at least gives the Disguise skill another application and is characterful at the same time. To improve it, feats, please, I want to have a freakin' deathmask with a full face war paint that terrifies the enemy
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadian 9th View Post
    I like it.

    The rules are quite simple, it works as it should and there's no wierdness going on. It's especially useful to low level parties, and priced appropriately.

    You may want to look at the various other things that give a bonus to intimidate, to see if you should change the bonus type. IIRC the Kreshnar Mask totem chakra bind from Magic of Incarnum makes your face look like it's turned inside out, giving you a +4 competence bonus, and an additional +2 per point of essentia investment. A MW Intimidate tool would be 50gp and it lasts forever, +2 circumstance flat.

    Despite the obvious price anomoly, I like how you've made it scalable, kudos - it at least gives the Disguise skill another application and is characterful at the same time. To improve it, feats, please, I want to have a freakin' deathmask with a full face war paint that terrifies the enemy
    Hmm. That's nice to hear. If I remember correctly, this gives you a circumstance bonus, but not a competence bonus. So, if you are so inclined, you may actually wear a Krenshar Mask totem chakra bind and get the bonuses from both.

    I think it should remain as a circumstance bonus, all the other items that improve checks appear to do that.

    And Feats? Feats for an item? That seems a bit weird.

    I might make an Deathmask, later...

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Actually, I would think if you had 5 or more ranks in Profession (Make Up Artist), you'd get a +2 synergy bonus to Disguise.

    PCs aren't likely to take new skills without good justification.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2010-12-23 at 02:01 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Actually, I would think if you had 5 or more ranks in Profession (Make Up Artist), you'd get a +2 synergy bonus to Disguise.

    PCs aren't likely to take new skills without good justification.

    Debby
    Doesn't sound like too bad an idea. I think I'll add it in.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    A slight grammar change suggested. Also, transferred onto the wiki now.

    And a question...which craft skill allows you to make these?

    Quote Originally Posted by OP, Jan 3, 2011
    You may take 10 when making this check, but you may only take 20, if there is a water source available to remove the paint and start afresh.
    You may take 10 normally when making this check, but you may only take 20 if there is a water source available to remove the paint and start afresh.
    On balance: Just because you don't agree with the level of balance doesn't mean that others cannot. While balance is objective, which balance is being aimed at is subjective.

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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    {table=head]Make up Artistís ability | Check Result (Taking 10) | Price (gp)
    Competent | 15 | 6
    Experienced | 20 | 18
    Specialist | 25 | 36
    Master | 30 | 66[/table]

    As per your request, a table.

    You may want to mention how many applications one purchase allows. If it's only 1, I wouldn't think 20 could be taken because you'd use up part of it, then start over a few times. I think it follows the "consequences of failure" aspect of not taking 20.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Oh, there seems to be an important slight. How long do these bonuses and penalties last? I'd put it at 10 minutes per check result. That gives 1 2/3 hours for an untrained person taking 10 without an attribute bonus and 5 hours for a Master.

    I fail reading 101.
    Last edited by Havvy; 2011-01-04 at 12:58 AM.
    On balance: Just because you don't agree with the level of balance doesn't mean that others cannot. While balance is objective, which balance is being aimed at is subjective.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Havvy View Post
    Oh, there seems to be an important slight. How long do these bonuses and penalties last? I'd put it at 10 minutes per check result. That gives 1 2/3 hours for an untrained person taking 10 without an attribute bonus and 5 hours for a Master.
    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    War Paint:

    The paint stays on the wearers skin for up to 3 days, by which time it smudges and looses effectiveness. The paint may be removed by washing it off with water.
    ^^ Answer ^^
    Last edited by ForzaFiori; 2011-01-03 at 10:33 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Havvy View Post
    A slight grammar change suggested. Also, transferred onto the wiki now.
    Cool, I'll edit that in. Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havvy View Post
    And a question...which craft skill allows you to make these?
    Good Question. I'm not entirely sure, craft alchemy maybe? I can't think of anything else really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    {table=head]Make up Artistís ability | Check Result (Taking 10) | Price (gp)
    Competent | 15 | 6
    Experienced | 20 | 18
    Specialist | 25 | 36
    Master | 30 | 66[/table]

    As per your request, a table.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuma Kode View Post
    You may want to mention how many applications one purchase allows. If it's only 1, I wouldn't think 20 could be taken because you'd use up part of it, then start over a few times. I think it follows the "consequences of failure" aspect of not taking 20.
    Good point. I probably should add in rules that deal with this. Done.

    I've changed it so that you need 2 additional units of war paint in order to take 20. So that's 3 in total. This is to reflect the nature of applying make-up/face paint. If you stuff it up a little, you don't need to start everything again entirely, you only need to remove the bit you've stuffed up, and replace it with a fixed up bit.
    Last edited by Samm; 2011-01-14 at 08:38 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: War Paint [3.5 Item] [PEACH]

    Can you add rules for rushed (1 round)? I can just see an Orc warrior cutting open some puny human's chest and rubbing his face in the open massive chest wound, eating his heart then intimidating the other enemies.,,
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