GM hates me.

[FallenWarriorIV]

I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.

[icastflare!]

Have you talked to him about this? Is it happening to the other players and do they notice?

[The Glyphstone]

Talk to him? Though if you're asking us, I would assume that has been tried and failed.

(Incidentally, a Warforged is as much wood as metal usually - instant rust would be like giving a human a severe skin rash/full-body burn...horribly painful and possible incapacitating, but not instantly fatal.)

[FallenWarriorIV]

I have talked to the other players about this, they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it. I've mentioned that I think he's being unfair but havn't brought up any specific incidents.

[woodenbandman]

Well if what you say is true, he's a terrible GM and you should tell him about this. If he changes, good, if not, quit playing with him.

[Elfin]

Yeah. A DM who DMs to prove his dominance is no DM at all.

[gbprime]

Why would he want to start "proving dominance" now if you've been gaming together for 8 years? Did you develop a rivalry someplace else that he's acting out on?

[Crow]

they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it.

You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

[Shas aia Toriia]

You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I wish I knew you in real life. This is too awesome for words to describe.

[Cerlis]

well i hope you are wrong on that theory, cus otherwise, what a ****.

incodently. I'd like to remind you and all (as far as i know, everyone here already knows it, but i dont think its said enough) its possible to confront someone without being confrontational.

There is a fine line between

"Dont you want to play?"

"Eh, nah i'll probably just waste my time. I keep getting killed anyways. I'll just play <videogame> while yall do that or something"

and

"No. THATS probably just a waste of time (with venom in your voice). -I'll- just get killed anyways (Ephasis on putting yourself as a victim and possibly adding a pointed look at the person in question). I'll just go have some fun with this (Subtext:you are ALL not fun because of him) while yall do that or something (Subtext: I dont care what you do, or care about yall at all)"

The former statement might need some work, but the idea is that it shouldnt place blame, and is just you concerned about having fun. If nothing else it might get you some sympathy. If they want you to play they may take a OOC hand in your survival, or maybe the GM will realize he needs to tone it down or he loses a player.

The second will just make the situation worse
------------
P.S. Isnt a common trope with warforged being left deactivated for a long time? Do they even rust? Not only are warforged as much wood as metal but if there are oxidizing metals in them I dont think it is very much.

[FallenWarriorIV]

You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I think I might have to try that. Nothing else seems to be working.

[FallenWarriorIV]

They are vulnerable to Rust monsters and the Rusting Grasp spell. They do not rust naturally.

[Starbuck_II]

I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.

Have you mentioned you like to die?
Did you ever slight him?
Explain the army one first to us. The rest seem okay just really mean/tough DM, but how did he send an army: did you do anything traitorous?

[tyckspoon]

I think I might have to try that. Nothing else seems to be working.

I was gonna suggest the spraybottle. Maybe the lightly-rolled newspaper/lightweight magazine if that didn't work. He'd go "Ok, FallenWarrior, your character needs to make 20 Fort saves. While you're rolling those, the rest of you.." and you'd go *whap* "No. Bad GM. No. Bad GM." Repeat until situation improves or he disinvites you to the game. Either way, you'll have fun.

[Worira]

FWIV: Punch DM in snout to establish superiority.

[FallenWarriorIV]

Have you mentioned you like to die?
Did you ever slight him?
Explain the army one first to us. The rest seem okay just really mean/tough DM, but how did he send an army: did you do anything traitorous?

Never mentioned a preference for the afterlife. I like breathing a bit too much for that. As far as I know, we've never even had a fight.

As for the army thing, a goblin coalition or some such was besieging a town. We had about twenty minutes to stop or distract them before they broke in and slaughtered everyone. So, the rogue distracts the main body and the wizard and I sneak in to cut the head off the snake. The main army noticed us collectively, swarmed us on the hill, completely ignored the wizard and literally tore me limb from limb before feeding my remains to the war-wolves or some such.

[NiteCyper]

I like to grief people (in video-games), but that doesn't mean that I hate them.


1. Citation needed.
2. To add to *****: Too much punishment is also a bad thing. Balance. Closed fists are good for lots, but so are open arms...like for carrying small slippery bags, filled with liquid, that have handles. Did I proverb good?

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I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.

Be happy. If you're an optimist, talk it out with them. Last resort: leave.

I have talked to the other players about this, they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it. I've mentioned that I think he's being unfair but havn't brought up any specific incidents.

If it's true that "he just needs to prove his dominance" and it's because of their "attitudes, values, manners, faith, and/or politics (Brodzinsky & Schechter, 1990), then no, there's not nothing that can be done about it. These are things that parents influence in children, so I reckon that operant conditioning (e.g., hurting them via neglect, or pleasing them via in-game gifts) should be able to brainwash them to your advantage. If they are a GM, they will be harder to shape due to their inherent position of power.

[Gan The Grey]

I like to grief people (in video-games), but that doesn't mean that I hate them.

First, not attacking you NiteCyper. Just gave me the idea here. Second, understand that the following is a very brief summary of one aspect of a very broad argument, tailored and trimmed in order to focus only on the parts that have to do with this thread.

The point of griefing is to elevate one's own mood by demonstrating power over another individual. In a griefer's mind, he/she has the power to allow them to do as they wish or to prevent them from doing so. In addition, the griefer can do these things often without fear of reprisal or consequence to him/herself. For those that feel as though they lack power in real life, griefing provides a tremendous, if temporary, rush.

However, if a griefed individual fails to 'grieve' their loss of time and effort in a way that pleases the griefer, the griefer quickly becomes disenchanted with the situation and moves on to greener pastures. Refuse a griefer what he/she desires most - confirmation of his/her power over another individual's level of fun - and the griefer loses his/her power and will change his/her behavior.

In this situation, the GM seems to be griefing the OP, and ***** has rightly suggested removing the GM's power by ignoring his ability to control the OP's level of fun and participation.

If any of this seems suspect to you, feel free to read up on any decently in-depth examination of bullying.


OP: I've been DMing for a diverse group of people for almost 15 years now, and in all my years, I've found that the best way to handle problems like this often do NOT involve the direct approach. More often than not, directly bringing up problems like this quickly leads to defensiveness and finger-pointing. If your GM is a cool-headed mature individual, it is very possible that you can pull him aside one day and lay your concerns at his feet without him stomping all over you, but I'm going to agree with ***** on this one. If he gains enjoyment out of killing your characters, first work to eliminate the source of his pleasure and then see if that alleviates the problem. You might even recruit some of the other players to come to your defense in-game if it becomes apparent that things are going down that road again.

[Hanuman]

I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.

Oh FFS, warforged have wood muscles and aren't even ferris.

[NiteCyper]

@Gan The Grey: I wholeheartedly concur with you.

[Gan The Grey]

@Gan The Grey: I wholeheartedly concur with you.

Good. I was so hoping that didn't come across as a personal attack on you.

EDIT Crap. Now the thread's just gonna die because, due to my ability present my points in a carefully worded manner, I failed to induce a flamewar on the first page. CURSE YOU, OVER-EDUCATED BRAIN!!!!!

[*.*.*.*]

You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I personally thought as soon as I read the op: "Marry his mother, become father, and proceed to make his life horrid and disturbing/mentally scarring"

[0Megabyte]

My suggestion is simple: Don't follow *****'s advice.

Doing the sort of thing he suggests is both passive aggressive and makes the person who does it into a bit of a douche-bag. It sounds like the sort of thing a kid would do.

If there is a problem, be upfront about it. Acting like a brat isn't going to help matters. Besides, doing to others as you'd have done to you is something to keep in mind: Does this kind of non-participatory time-wasting seem like it'd be good if done to you? Personally, I'd find it not just offensive but puzzling. And relating it to relationships? Why would anyone want a relationship with someone who, instead of talking about their problems or just making it clear they're breaking up, acts in the manner described in *****'s post? All it would do is make things worse. And that's all following his advice would do here. (At least, this is my non-prescient prediction, not knowing all the facts. I could be wrong. Though in this case I doubt it.)

[Akal Saris]

Alternatively, play a supremely cautious, paranoid character. Be the wizard with 12 simulcrums, or a lich, or whatever else floats your boat. If the DM is out to kill you, you might as well make it difficult.

[Grogmir]

My advice - keep it simple - straight out ask him 'Why do you keep trying to kill me' This gets straight to the crux on the problem.

He'll either say a) I'm not or b) I thought you liked it, you're a good player and I want to challenge you. (One of the most common reasons DM are hard on a players)

B seems unlikely however so what if he says a?

Well either he's lying - in which case he knows you're 'on' to him and will hopefully tone it down.
Or he doesn't realise he was - in this case if he's a good DM he should react accordingly.

- - -

I don't like sorting what is imo an OOC solution by doing anything ingame and doing anything that provokes the issue will only make you seem bad. But I must admit if it continues I would be making a hardy but cowardly character thats always fearing the worse.

- - -

good luck hope it sorts itself out.

[Ingus]

Alternatively, play a supremely cautious, paranoid character. Be the wizard with 12 simulcrums, or a lich, or whatever else floats your boat. If the DM is out to kill you, you might as well make it difficult.

I missed this guy above, when I was away from here! Your DM has to put up a Clone War to definitively kill you. He can, but you'll be on the book of awesomeness forever.

[Jornophelanthas]

Given that this has happened to multiple characters (presumably) across multiple games, this is not an in-character problem, but an out-of-character problem.

To quote the famous Oracle_Hunter on this forum: "Do not attempt to solve out-of character situations with in-character fixes." Therefore, creating a paranoid wizard with 12 simulacra will not solve the problem.

The only way to deal with this issue is to address it with the DM/player in question. What is not clear to me is if this person is the DM in all relevant games that you are currently playing in, or a fellow player in some (or maybe in all).

If he is a fellow player, first ask him personally (one-on-one) if something is the matter, because you get the idea that he is always trying to kill your characters, and it is starting to get to you. Chances are the problem will be solved right there.
If this doesn't solve things (e.g. he ignores the problem, gets defensive, says he doesn't want to talk to you, or flat-out says that he doesn't like you playing with him), talk to the DM, and tell him/her that there is a problem between you and player X, because he is killing your characters in DM's campaign. Maybe the DM will be able to mediate or regulate the game, depending on your game's PvP habits. Note that this may result in either you or the other player leaving the game.

If he is the DM, ask him (again one-on-one) if something is the matter, because you get the idea that bad stuff is always happening to your characters, no matter what you are playing, and no matter what you do. If this results in a good talk about what you expect from one another, perhaps this will solve the problem.
If this doesn't solve things (e.g. he ignores the problem, gets defensive, says he doesn't want to talk to you, or flat-out says that he doesn't like you playing with him), you should probably consider leaving the game. Do not do this without discussing it with the other players, though.

In no way should you accuse this player of anything during any of such talks. Even if you are considering leaving a game, do not use this as a threat or an ultimatum, but only as a last resort. For example: "This game is not fun to me right now because all my characters keep dying. I'm considering leaving it, because I come here to have fun. Could you help make it fun again?"

[valadil]

I say fight fire with fire. The next time he moves a couple guys in to flank you, inform him that your traps go off or that they NPCs bump into your invisible tarrasque. Insert your own BS into his game.

Yes, that response is immature but it leads to an actual argument. You get to point out that since it is his game and he can create whatever he wants, being dominant over you is meaningless. Oh look, 17 Pun Puns just spawned to punish you for spilling your drink! I bet you feel like less of a man now! If you show him how meaningless beating on a PC is when he's the GM, you take away his ability to prove his dominance in this fashion.

[Oracle_Hunter]

If you are ever unhappy with your DM, speak with him about it.

If speaking with your DM does not fix the problem then write him a polite note describing your issue and leave the game.

Fuller discussion

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It's hard enough to change the mind of a reasonable person; if you believe that your DM is "out to get you" then it's unlikely that he's acting reasonably.

If you're lucky, your DM isn't targeting you deliberately but there is something between your two play styles which doesn't jive. Speaking with the DM will get this issue out into the open and perhaps the two of you can work together to make the game more fun for everyone.

If you're not, and there are irreconcilable differences between you two, then you must quit the game. Staying in the game means you'll be doing something that isn't fun for you - a waste of time when you're talking about a RPG. Trying to "change the game" into something you enjoy is going to set you up for head-butting with the DM; if everyone else was already having fun in the game this will wreck it.

A final note: never use in-game actions to "solve" the problems of a game. At best you'll get the momentary satisfaction of stickin' it to a jerk; but in every case you will be inflicting misery upon at least one other person without actually fixing the root problem. It's a bad move in every case.

[Quietus]

Totally off-topic, but... that last link there? That broke my heart.