Can treasure hunters NOT working for an organization Be Lawful in alignment?

[Ragitsu]

Just curious.

[Halae]

Why, yes they can. I don't see why not, and if you believe there's some ethical reason not to dig up treasure, then remember - Lawful means that you follow a code. whether that's the rules your society set down or your own rules is up to you.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Yes.

Why would you think they'd have to be?

For reference:

Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

. . . .

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

[Yuki Akuma]

Uh...

Yes?

Considering practically any adventurer could be called a "treasure hunter"...

I'm not quite sure why you'd think they couldn't.

[Godskook]

Sure, why not?

They're hunting for unclaimed treasure, right? If so, you're fine.

If they're specifically bucking authority by hunting on government lands or by breaking anit-treasure-hunter laws, no.

If they're stealing the treasure from 'unregistered' natives(like Cortez did to the Aztecs), probably not, but YMMV.

If they're stealing it from the rightful owners legally(like USA did to the native americans, especially during the 1800s), sadly, yes, but it shouldn't be.

[Ragitsu]

This is one place, like Wisdom/Charisma, where D&D doesn't make much sense.

Surely a Chaotic or Neutral character can have a "code" they internalize and follow?

[mucat]

This is one place, like Wisdom/Charisma, where D&D doesn't make much sense.

Surely a Chaotic or Neutral character can have a "code" they internalize and follow?

Sure they can; to one extent or another, most people do. (But it probably still makes them a little less chaotic than if they had no code at all.)

If they tend to look to their code and expect it to have the answer to almost any situation, though, then that seems to imply a lawful disposition. If they have a code that simply says "there are some lines I won't cross," but short of that point, they tend to improvise and judge every situation on its own merits, that shows more of a chaotic disposition.

For example, if a character is facing that classic old chestnut, the "prisoners dilemma" -- they have captured some enemies, have no easy way to turn them over to authorities, and have to decide whether to kill them, let them go, or try to bring them along as captives -- then a lawful character will ask "under what circumstances is it acceptable to execute captives?" Perhaps his answer is "never", perhaps it's "always", or perhaps it's "only if such-and-such is true"...but he is thinking of principles that apply not only to this immediate situations, but to prisoner treatment in general.

A chaotic is more likely to ask "Should we let these particular guys live?" She won't feel obligated to come up with an answer that applies to captives in general, just to these specific captives in this specific situation. She may reach the same conclusion as the Lawful character, or she may not, but her reasoning will be very different. But she can still have a strict code that kicks in under certain circumstances: "Never harm a fellow elf", or "never inflict unnecessary pain."

[GoatBoy]

Young Indy: It belongs to Coronado.
Fedora: Coronado is dead. And so are all his grandchildren.
Young Indy: This should be in a museum!

A treasure hunter can be lawful as long as they are searching for treasure for ethical reasons.

Even someone who is determined to steal every painting by a certain famous artist is following a specific plan, and could be said to be lawful, or at least have lawful tendencies.

[Yuki Akuma]

"Lawful" doesn't mean "follows a code". Someone who follows a strict code probably is lawful, but you don't need a specific code in your head to be lawful!

[Goober4473]

A treasure hunter can be lawful as long as they are searching for treasure for ethical reasons.

A lawful character isn't necessarily ethical. For instance, a lawful evil treasure hunter probably isn't very ethical, but will still approach problems in an orderly manner, likely following some set of personal rules. She may keep loot from rightful owners, murder competition, etc. Maybe stealing offends her code or she's afraid of law enforcement stepping in, but maybe not. On the other hand, a chaotic good treasure hunter will be ethical, and probably won't harm competition in any meaningful way, but may steal if the rightful owner is already wealthy (Robin Hood style).

[Ragitsu]

Well, that depends on if the character considers treasure hunting "stealing", or not?

[Coidzor]

Well, that depends on if the character considers treasure hunting "stealing", or not?

Indeed, it depends upon the person whether they'd consider taking the material possessions of someone after you've killed them (possibly for the 2nd+ time) to be stealing or pragmatism or what have you.

And what's meant by treasure hunting, of course.

[mucat]

"Lawful" doesn't mean "follows a code". Someone who follows a strict code probably is lawful, but you don't need a specific code in your head to be lawful!

Sure. You don't need a code in order to be Lawful, just as you don't need to be Lawful to have a code...but having a detailed, well-defined code of conduct and looking to it first for guidance is one example of Lawful behavior.

[Ragitsu]

I might agree with reliability, but "honor" and "trustworthiness" seem like traits common across Neutral Good and Chaotic Good.

[The Glyphstone]

I might agree with reliability, but "honor" and "trustworthiness" seem like traits common across Neutral Good and Chaotic Good.

Honor is a Good trait to have. Trustworthiness is more of a Lawful thing - and Neutral Good can exhibit lawful behavior...even Chaotic Good can be Lawful on occasion, they just don't behave so in all aspects of their life.

[Coidzor]

Honor is sort of a nebulous thing and whether it's good, lawful, or neutral to have or be or gain depends on the cultural framework defining honor that you're using.

"Standard" chivalric-derived honor is basically synonymous with living in accordance with the proscribed way of being morally/ethically sound as a knight. And living on the side of moral right is generally synonymous with Good.

Whereas an "honor culture" on the other hand... Much less pleasant to categorize, but tends towards the Evil with the disregard for the suffering of others inflicted in the pursuit of one's own needs/goals or the needs of one's in-group/family and lack of respect for life.

[Marnath]

A lawful character isn't necessarily ethical. For instance, a lawful evil treasure hunter probably isn't very ethical, but will still approach problems in an orderly manner, likely following some set of personal rules. She may keep loot from rightful owners, murder competition, etc. Maybe stealing offends her code or she's afraid of law enforcement stepping in, but maybe not. On the other hand, a chaotic good treasure hunter will be ethical, and probably won't harm competition in any meaningful way, but may steal if the rightful owner is already wealthy (Robin Hood style).

Actually, thats morality, not ethics. The good/evil axis is what determines the underlined behaviors, and the bolded technically is something with regards to ethics which has more to do with what you believe is acceptable by the rules you set for yourself. I'd say its probably more neutral on the L/C axis than lawful however, since I can see even the most spontaneous person having some internal rule prohibiting acting against your competition.

[Tvtyrant]

Lawful should really be written as "Order" to compare to "chaos." But anyway, I would say that a Lawful person could if they thought being a treasure hunter would further aid in creating more order/law. So a Lawful Evil knight could rob a group of bandits because they live lawlessly and he wants a hierarchical society.

Furthermore, the lawful can be downplayed in favor of the good/neutral/evil. A Lawful Good wizard could be more good then lawful, he just needs to approach things from a lawful angle most of the time.