Wish busting

[Doomboy911]

I came up with the idea if I were to ever get the ring of three wishes I had this set up that seemed fool proof. So I need some ruling if you can twist the idea.

Wish one:I wish to legally have thirty bags of holding (level six I think the largest is called) without paying for them

Wish two: I wish they were filled to the brim with platinum coins without breaking the bag.

Wish three: I wish the platinum pieces were legal tender freshly made and cooled also no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

So can this be twisted in anyway you can think?

[Skorj]

Really, you think there's a wish that can't be twisted?

IWish three: I wish the platinum pieces were legal tender freshly made and cooled also no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

So, yeah, that bit there for laughs.

EDIT: also, you only said the bags were legally obtained, not the plat. Oops.

[FMArthur]

The coins were made from platinum taken from Tiamat's lair. Tiamat is a god and immune to the effect of your third wish.

[Doomboy911]

Really, you think there's a wish that can't be twisted?



So, yeah, that bit there for laughs.

EDIT: also, you only said the bags were legally obtained, not the plat. Oops.

Yeah but to take them they'd have to know about them.

[tyckspoon]

-wishing for platinum-

The coins are only part platinum, alloyed with or plated on to some cheaper metal. The proportions of platinum to near-worthless base metal are exactly such that your wish yields 25,000 GP worth of coinage, as per the safe limit on wishing for material wealth.

Also you can't combine your Wishes in the way you're doing Wish 2 and Wish 3 (well, really, if you're going to try it, you may as well make Wish 2 and Wish 3 the same and use Wish 3 for something else.) Or.. well, you *can*, but basically what you're doing is using the 'redo an event' option for Wish 3 to change what you said in Wish 2.

[Skorj]

There's also a running gag in my regular RPG group that applies here (and to any wish where the player hasn't heard the story, really). The punch line is: "when he competed his wish, the party heard a rising whistle, as of a bomb falling. You see, nowhere in his elaborate wish had he specified the velocity of arrival. It was a TPK."

[The Big Dice]

I came up with the idea if I were to ever get the ring of three wishes I had this set up that seemed fool proof. So I need some ruling if you can twist the idea.

Wish one:I wish to legally have thirty bags of holding (level six I think the largest is called) without paying for them

Wish two: I wish they were filled to the brim with platinum coins without breaking the bag.

Wish three: I wish the platinum pieces were legal tender freshly made and cooled also no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

So can this be twisted in anyway you can think?

1: You can have them, sure.I can think of things to make you not want them anymore after you got them, but let's roll with this.

2. Sure. To the brim means that the bag won't close. How much does all that coin weigh again?

3. Nobody can think of a reason not to take them from you? That's not good. That leaves you wide open to them being stolen and all kinds of other shenanigans.

It's not a case of using a ruling to twist the ideas, it's more about using the wording to mean you'd use the third wish to say "I wish I hadn't done that."

[Doomboy911]

Well yeah I was wondering how a DM would respond to this with twisting the words also that idea of the Platinum pieces appearing on top of me is messed up with when I wish for them to be in my bag of holding.

[Ravens_cry]

Trying to break Wish is pointless, you know why? Because the spell implicitly says, no matter how well you word it, even if your legalese is good enough to make a devils head hurt, the DM is fully authorized to ignore some part of your wish to screw with it if it goes too far. I'm not saying part of Rule 0, I mean the actual wording of the Wish spell description.
Going for this is just egging the DM to do so.

[Jack_Simth]

I came up with the idea if I were to ever get the ring of three wishes I had this set up that seemed fool proof. So I need some ruling if you can twist the idea.

Wish one:I wish to legally have thirty bags of holding (level six I think the largest is called) without paying for them

Wish two: I wish they were filled to the brim with platinum coins without breaking the bag.

Wish three: I wish the platinum pieces were legal tender freshly made and cooled also no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

So can this be twisted in anyway you can think?

Yes, easily.

With Wish #1, you're getting off the safe list already. AND you're making a wish that requires the expenditure of additional XP above and beyond the base Wish - but check out how things are priced: Magic items don't provide extra XP. That's got to come from somewhere. A type IV Bag of Holding costs 10,000 gp market; 400 xp to Craft, and thus, 800 xp each to make via Wish. You just had 24,000 xp drained from you. De-level a few times, and enjoy your 30 bags of holding that have no impact on your combat ability. No, he's not weakening encounters for your being 2-3 levels behind the curve, sorry. Alternately, you get one - as making one magic item is on the safe list of Wish - and lose 800 xp, per the 'partial fulfillment' clause.

Wish 2:
The simplest way to do this is to reverse the enchantment on the bags, so that they can contain nothing - they are now literally filled to the brim, but no contents are required. If the DM is feeling generous, they contain 1 platinum coin each, and that is the limit of the space that fits in the Wish-twisted bags.

Wish 3:
You added a 'not' you didn't intend. Now everyone wants to take them from you (which would require quite the enchantment). Assuming you fix that, though, you've still got a problem: affecting the minds of everyone everywhere is beyond the limits of Wish, and this requires that as stated. However, a single Symbol of Charming on one or more of them, which triggers when someone attempts to steal them, works out relatively well. For a little while. You get the 'partial fulfillment' clause. Will save DC 23 negates.

[NichG]

If I wanted to twist those wishes as a DM, was looking for a plot hook, and was running a game where the potential power of wish was basically unlimited (since otherwise all of those wishes would simply fail due to the spell being insufficiently powerful) I'd do the following:

1. Result of wish 1: You are now legally entitled to 30 bags of holding scattered throughout the world. See, there was this wizard who passed away without a will, and his effects were collected and auctioned off. Now the will has been uncovered, naming you the recipient of the bags of holding.

2,3. Granted without modification.

Now there are 30 really really stinking rich people (each bag contains 750000gp) scattered throughout the world creating all sorts of strange plot, and you have motivation to go and locate them and retrieve your property. Even finding one bag's full contents would be a huge thing for the party. Furthermore, the platinum seems to have strange magical effects (specifically, every platinum piece has a Sympathy spell placed upon it), and are being hunted by other beings who wish to use them for nefarious and/or amusing purposes.

Meanwhile, the huge influx of platinum into certain markets is fundamentally changing the value of the metal, which has two effects: 1. Its not worth as much as you thought, though its probably still pretty valuable and 2. Certain spells stop working as they require a sacrifice of a certain value, and the relative value of different sacrifices is actually being altered. The gods of commerce become involved, leading to the campaign climax where the party must find a new rare resource and convince the world to use it in place of platinum, lest all magic with material components fail forever...

Okay, I'll admit that last bit is a bit much.

[The Glyphstone]

This is easy to 'twist', and non-maliciously too. Welcome to the Partial Fulfillment clause.

Wish 1: Wish, as written, cannot make multiple magic items, only 'a magic item, or add to the properties of an existing magic item'. It also has a limit of 25,000GP worth of non-magical items or currency created per Wish. Allowing for a partial fulfillment according to the spirit of the wish, you will recieve 2 Type IV Bags of Holding. Semi-maliciously would get you a single Bag of Holding, but still within the spirit of the request.

Wish 2: Wish, as written, cannot provide more than 25,000GP worth of currency or non-magical items in a single casting. As you wished for the bags to be full to the brim of platinum coins, though, partial fulfillment takes the form of 2,500 platinum coins (50 lbs), and then a CL20 (the CL of the ring) Major Creation spell conjuring 20 cubic feet of platinum coins, which persist for 20 hours before vanishing. The Wish chokes here, being unable to create the remaining 229 cubic feet worth of coins with its inherent power.

Wish 3: Cannot be parsed by the Ring, so nothing happens, but you do not expend a wish. Alternatively, repeat Wish 2, conjuring the maximum possible amount of coinage the magic will allow, plus temporary coinage to get as close to the stated limits as possible. Requires very sympathic understanding of intent, otherwise:

no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

Means every single person in the world will have invented, inexplicable reasons to hunt you down and take your money. Double negatives are funny like that.

[Doomboy911]

The thirty bags of holding was kind of me just being greedy. So make it one bag I'm surprised no one said that the bags of holding would be inside one another.

[Jack_Simth]

The thirty bags of holding was kind of me just being greedy. So make it one bag I'm surprised no one said that the bags of holding would be inside one another.

*rolls eyes* check out the density of platinum, and do a little math on a Portable Hole.

[The Glyphstone]

The thirty bags of holding was kind of me just being greedy. So make it one bag I'm surprised no one said that the bags of holding would be inside one another.

They could be, because that doesn't actually matter by strict RAW. The only extradimensional space interactions with designated effects is Portable Hole+Bag of Holding, everything else is merely implied and left up to the DM.

The 'best outcome', for you though, is 2 Bags of Holding, each with 2,500 platinum coins in it, and 3 expended wishes. Or 1 Bag, with a total of 5,000 platinum, 3 wishes expended.

[Doomboy911]

Hmm taking the limit on gold and magic items into considerations I have to say this.

Wish One: I wish for a bag of holding filled with non-magical maps to unwarded, ungaurded treasures or forgotten treasure.

Wish Two: I wish for a very quick means of transportation that allows me to travel safely to anywhere I want.

Wish Three: I wish no one capable and willing to steal it from would lose interest believing that such an item couldn't possibly exist.

[Jjeinn-tae]

Hmm taking the limit on gold and magic items into considerations I have to say this.

Wish One: I wish for a bag of holding filled with non-magical maps to unwarded, ungaurded treasures or forgotten treasure.

Wish Two: I wish for a very quick means of transportation that allows me to travel safely to anywhere I want.

Wish Three: I wish no one capable and willing to steal it from would lose interest believing that such an item couldn't possibly exist.

Wish One: Given that the maps are to unguarded treasures OR forgotten treasure, you get a bag of holding filled with maps leading to the most gruelingly defended forgotten treasures ever conceived.

Wish Two: Deep down, your character really wanted to go to a brothel...

Wish Three: You just made it so that anyone capable and willing to steal from "it" would not lose interest, despite believing it doesn't exist.

I wish no one capable and willing to steal it from would lose interest

I'm thinking blind hope treasure hunters, who it is their last chance at making it in the world to try and get something that no one believes to exist. On the surface they are strong and sure of it's existence, but deep down, they know it doesn't.

[The Glyphstone]

Hmm taking the limit on gold and magic items into considerations I have to say this.

Wish One: I wish for a bag of holding filled with non-magical maps to unwarded, ungaurded treasures or forgotten treasure.

Wish Two: I wish for a very quick means of transportation that allows me to travel safely to anywhere I want.

Wish Three: I wish no one capable and willing to steal it from would lose interest believing that such an item couldn't possibly exist.

Wish 1: You a bag of holding filled with non-magical maps to forgotten treasures. They may be guarded or warded, the maps don't say. Hello, adventure hooks!

Wish 2: You get a Scroll of Greater Teleport. If you're a non-caster, a Command-word Item of Greater Teleport with 15 charges would fit under the 25000GP limit.

Wish 3: Cannot be parsed, nothing happens and no Wish expended (you can't make two wishes simultaneous like this). Also, you got another double negative in here by mistake.

[Doomboy911]

My mistake should've said anyone willing and capable of stealing it would lose interest. And for means of travel perhaps wishing for a normal vehicle to have the ability to transport myself and the vehicle to anywhere I want.

Also make the maps only unwarded ungaurded amounts of treasure that have long been forgotten with exact details on what the area holding the treasure entails.

Bonus points if the vehicle is a unicycle for giggles.

[The Glyphstone]

Then the Charged Item of Greater Teleport takes the form of a unicycle. After its charges are expended, it's still a nonmagical unicycle.

The maps now lead to unguarded treasures, but their total value between all the maps is only 25,000 GP. They are very small treasures.


malicious wish-warping is easier (say, giving you maps to unguarded treasures, which are unguarded because the nine million Balors guarding it were out on a smoke break), but cliched and not as fun.

[Jjeinn-tae]

The maps now lead to unguarded treasures, but their total value between all the maps is only 25,000 GP. They are very small treasures.

Even better, the treasures are all long forgotten childhood toys. Possibly worth a copper or two each, but they were deeply treasured by whoever owned them before.

[khylis]

Worst possible outcome? the DM grants all your wishes, as stated.

And since nobody wants your money, you can't buy anything with it.

Also, you'll get up to 25,000 in bag of holdings filled with coins, then be smothered in regular bags filled with lots of heavy, worthless coins. Stacked on top of you.

[Doomboy911]

I said no one was interested in my treasure maps not in the treasure itself.

[The Big Dice]

Hmm taking the limit on gold and magic items into considerations I have to say this.

Wish One: I wish for a bag of holding filled with non-magical maps to unwarded, ungaurded treasures or forgotten treasure.

Wish Two: I wish for a very quick means of transportation that allows me to travel safely to anywhere I want.

Wish Three: I wish no one capable and willing to steal it from would lose interest believing that such an item couldn't possibly exist.

Wish 1. Unwarded, unguarded or forgotten treasures can be found. Congratulations, you got several maps to treasures that are already discovered, some to treasures that aren't guarded or warded in any way,but that are located in hostile environments (Elemental Plane of Fire, floating in the Astral Plane, on an island in the middle of an alkali lake or whatever) and all of them combined not exceeding the required value of a single Wish.

Wish 2 could be all kinds of fun. You didn't specify a limit to the number of uses, so it could be a single use item. Nor did you specify the form, so you could be surrounded with an air permeable rubber, then launched across the landscape. You get where you want to be, but are completely incapable of interacting with anything when you get there...

Wish 3 doesn't allow for the guy who is coerced into stealing your can of Boing by a nefarious villain who is himself incapable of stealing the device.

[The Glyphstone]

Such things are why I think finding Partial Fulfillment interpretations are more fun, in the end, than malicious warping. It's easy to twist unintended consequences (you didn't say you didn't want to be on fire) into absurdity, harder to adhere to the intended spirit without breaking the limits of Wish or letting the player get away with their intended cheateryness.

[Trinoya]

Oh god.. really? Reeeeeeally? Lol... here we go. Let me twist da wish!

Wish one:I wish to legally have thirty bags of holding (level six I think the largest is called) without paying for them

You automatically have thirty bags of holding fly at you at high speed within six seconds, impacting you. All the bags are deemed legally obtained and your property. They travel as the appropriate speed from their former locations, and deal appropriate damage for their speed and weight. If you are still alive I salute you sir.

Also, the path of destruction left by these bags in their wake is easily traceable to you... as they all head straight for you.

Wish two: I wish they were filled to the brim with platinum coins without breaking the bag.

Done and Done. They are filled to the brim with platinum coins. Specifically coins from the nation of Platinum, a long forgotten dead nation. The coins are made of copper.

Wish three: I wish the platinum pieces were legal tender freshly made and cooled also no one could think of a reason not to take them from me.

You have successfully changed the platinum pieces into legal tender, freshly made from a country of your DMs choosing. However you are overwhelmed by numerous people who just can't think of a reason to not take these coins from you, these include enemies, party members, and so on.

Have fun.

[mootoall]

Honestly, if a bit of Platinum is what you're going for with a Wish, you're not being creative enough anyway ...

[Doomboy911]

The wish is providing me with an item that is worth less than 25,000 gp (The pen and paper) The treasure I'd receive is possible worth. If I wished to know where a dragon's lair is I'd be given that knowledge and inside there would likely be treasure the wish doesn't lessen the treasure or send me to a dragon with less gold it gives me directions to the dragon I ask for. By wishing for tons of maps to treasure hoards it's the same as getting information except the wish was kind enough to write it down.

The vehicle is simply a matter of wishing for a cart with dimension shift and protect from just about anything you're able to think is necessary permanently imbued in the cart.

And once the capable person is given reason he'll go out and than lose interest. May lead to an endless cycle though villain says do it he says okay than comes back a week later bored and the villain tells him to do it he agrees and it happens again.

[Doomboy911]

Honestly, if a bit of Platinum is what you're going for with a Wish, you're not being creative enough anyway ...

Yeah it was the most important I could think of. Instead of wishing for an item I could get money to pay for it twist free.

[Eisirt]

As a DM you can have a lot of laughs with wish 1 and 2, but wish 3 makes me really chuckle....

Quoted: "no one could think of a reason not to take them from me."

Not even shopkeepers...

"No sorry sir/ma'am, I can under no circumstance accept your coin."

Or the version Trinoya mentioned... everyone in the world wants your money. Aren't you the popular one....

Your wording makes it slightly hard to figure out if they want or not want your money. Which doesn't matter in the eye of a malicious DM.

Golden Rule: The DM ALWAYS has a bigger hammer.

My personal rule(s) for wishes:
1.) Don get involved in them.
2.) If you have to get involved in them wish for something that advances the plot of the story, and personal wealth is rarely it.
(Call it metagaming, but few mature DM's will screw with a wish that makes the story more interesting)