Spiked Chain and Setting Sun

[Elric VIII]

This is just an interesting interaction that I have just thought about. When using one of the Setting Sun maneuvers (let's just assume it's Might Throw and a Spiked Chain that we're talking about) can the touch attack be made with the chain?

I just wonder about this because you are making a trip attempt and the chain itself can make a trip.

[AnswersQuestion]

Unless the power's description says you must do an unarmed or otherwise specific attack, you should be able to use any valid weapon(In this case, a spiked chain).

[Godskook]

Mighty Throw does not deal weapon damage and requires you to actually touch the target, so in this case, no, you can't do so with a spiked chain, mechanically. As a DM, I'd allow you to describe it that way in the fluff, though.

[AnswersQuestion]

Mighty Throw does not deal weapon damage and requires you to actually touch the target, so in this case, no, you can't do so with a spiked chain, mechanically. As a DM, I'd allow you to describe it that way in the fluff, though.

Last i checked tripping with a tripping weapon has nothing to do with damage.

[Jack Zander]

Last i checked tripping with a tripping weapon has nothing to do with damage.

Not if you have the knockdown feat.

[Angry Bob]

As it so happens, I have it open. It says nothing about armed or unarmed. Presumably, this means you can make the touch attack with your spiked chain at 10 feet, make the trip attempt with it, since you're allowed to trip with a spiked chain, and throw them.

As a DM, the image of some guy wrapping the chain around a guy's legs and then whipping him around is too great to disallow.

[Greenish]

Mighty Throw does not deal weapon damage and requires you to actually touch the target

Mighty Throw only asks for melee touch attack, which you can do with a weapon.

[AnswersQuestion]

Not if you have the knockdown feat.

Which has nothing to do with ToB maneuvers, or the tripping maneuver as a whole, much less this thread.

[Godskook]

Mighty Throw only asks for melee touch attack, which you can do with a weapon.

Incorrect, it is resolved with a melee touch attack, but requires:

"Target: Creature touched"

[Elric VIII]

As it so happens, I have it open. It says nothing about armed or unarmed. Presumably, this means you can make the touch attack with your spiked chain at 10 feet, make the trip attempt with it, since you're allowed to trip with a spiked chain, and throw them.

As a DM, the image of some guy wrapping the chain around a guy's legs and then whipping him around is too great to disallow.

This is the execution that I imagined as well. I haven't even brought this up with my DM, nor do I plan to play the particular character in the near future. I just had this odd thought upon finishing my character dossier and wanted to know if there was any merit to this. I had just assumed, in creation, that it was an aikido-style throw.

[Angry Bob]

If I understand WOTC's thinking, a judo-throw was the intention, and this possibility just ended up being a pleasant, if unintended yet entirely legal side-effect.

[Elric VIII]

Incorrect, it is resolved with a melee touch attack, but requires:

"Target: Creature touched"

Is Arcane Channeling/Smiting Spell a valid counterargument to this?

I'm not really basing this character's usefulness on this being legal, but it would be a pretty cool trick.

[AnswersQuestion]

Incorrect, it is resolved with a melee touch attack, but requires:

"Target: Creature touched"

Please explain why that disallows using a trip weapon.

[Gorgondantess]

Incorrect, it is resolved with a melee touch attack, but requires:

"Target: Creature touched"

Yeah... that can apply for several effects through weapons. It doesn't say creature touched by you, it says creature touched. You can "touch" something with your spiked chain.

[Godskook]

Yeah... that can apply for several effects through weapons. It doesn't say creature touched by you, it says creature touched. You can "touch" something with your spiked chain.

And it also says:

Range: Touch

Which, when we look on page 45, is defined as:

Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A
touch maneuver that deals damage can score a critical hit
just as a weapon can, although you do not multiply the extra
damage from a maneuver on a successful critical hit.