New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 58
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default How would you defend Gnomes?

    I'm trying to think up some crazy ingenious ideas that gnomes are known for that they can use to defend themselves against your generic forces of darkness, including siege engines. I'm open to anything at all (minus cheese) so throw them at me!

    The gnomes in question are actually a moderately sized trading town that is predominantly gnomes but with a healthy cosmopolitan population of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. The standing army is almost entirely gnomish however. The city is surrounded by a good wall that is about 10-15 feet wide and 20 feet tall. The town also has an extensive undercity/tunnel network that also extends outside the walls into the hilly countryside.

    All this information is right off the top of my head so I can provide more as necessary. Any ideas, playgrounders?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Is it a completely above-ground settlement? Are their enemies mindless hordes, or a well-coordinated army? Gnomes are natural illusionists, so one tactic is to just hide the city under an imaginary mountain. Then there's the old burning oil trick, which never fails to impress... But I don't think gnomes, who are known for alchemy, would limit themselves to just oil. How about a pot of Alchemist's Fire to throw on them? Even better, load it into a catapult.

    Yeah, that sounds good... Have them shoot some Alchemist's Fire out of a catapult.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    randomhero00's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Gnomes are known for trickery.

    Ever fought against good/hard mode kobolds at low level with all their traps? Basically do something similar with gnomes on a grander scale.

    The place you enter can be callapsed into a huge pit of spikes. Their weakness in their town is actually their strength (whatever that might be). If its a wall for instance, then the wall is designed to come down....and filled with explosives. And of course add some permanceied illusions that would really confuse a hostile army.

    Just think trickery and illusion with some alchemical stuff thrown in.

    edit: and that includes the offensive propaganda game. Make up a legend (which would be an illusion provided by only a few high ranking gnomes) that an invincible monster guards their town. Something collosal.

    Make the enemies so paranoid and scared that they wouldn't even want to touch the town.
    Last edited by randomhero00; 2010-12-23 at 01:58 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hyfigh's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Really small shields?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Though, this is obviously a world in which Speak with Dead trivializes most murder investigations. It's not "Well, after spending an exhaustive amount of time searching the crime scene for evidence, I seem to have found some bat guano and- yadda yadda" it's "Steve did it. Go scry Steve"

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by megabyter5 View Post
    Is it a completely above-ground settlement? Are their enemies mindless hordes, or a well-coordinated army? Gnomes are natural illusionists, so one tactic is to just hide the city under an imaginary mountain. Then there's the old burning oil trick, which never fails to impress... But I don't think gnomes, who are known for alchemy, would limit themselves to just oil. How about a pot of Alchemist's Fire to throw on them? Even better, load it into a catapult.

    Yeah, that sounds good... Have them shoot some Alchemist's Fire out of a catapult.
    I do not believe one shoots ANYTHING "out" of a catapult, except maybe ballista and related siege engines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    molten_dragon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The State of Denial
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I do not believe one shoots ANYTHING "out" of a catapult, except maybe ballista and related siege engines.
    Hmmm, a catapult that shoots ballistas...
    If build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

    My Homebrew

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I do not believe one shoots ANYTHING "out" of a catapult, except maybe ballista and related siege engines.
    If it's a semantics war you want, I'll be happy to retaliate. If you launched siege weaponry from a catapult, it would break. And then your enemies would fix it and use it against you. Congratulations, you've now supplied your attackers with a trebuchet.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by megabyter5 View Post
    If it's a semantics war you want, I'll be happy to retaliate. If you launched siege weaponry from a catapult, it would break. And then your enemies would fix it and use it against you. Congratulations, you've now supplied your attackers with a trebuchet.
    It's not a semantics war, though if that's how you want to see it, it's completely a different way of launching a projectile at an enemy. One is like throwing something, the other is akin to spitting. Rather different methods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Hmmm, a catapult that shoots ballistas...
    …and said ballistae launch a rain of heavy crossbows midair.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tyndmyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Hmmm, a catapult that shoots ballistas...
    I approve of this idea. With gnomish battle teams aboard the ballistas, frantically firing downward into battle, before engaging some half-baked pre-crash "safety" device.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Xin-Shalast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Decoy settlements which are staffed by a small team of illusionists that cycles out, probably in a sort of 'reservist' situation and serve as waystations for their scout patrols and double as monitoring stations of the surrounding countryside. As well as actually completely camouflaged and separate from the main tunnels systems of redoubts and tunnels used by the scouts who also double as guerillas when any coherent force marches on the city.

    So, they provide both an early warning system and a death trap for enemy vanguards/foragers, and serve to prepare a system of guerilla harassment/sabotage to an enemy force.

    Also, you said that there are tunnels leading from the undercity into the surrounding countryside. Those are both vulnerabilities and assets. 1. anything other than small-sized creatures would have to squeeze to get into them, 2. imagine Tuckers' Kobolds with a proper budget and you can imagine how painful and expensive in material it would be to try to take one of those tunnels, only to have it collapsed and sealed with the force inside of it buried/crushed.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2010-12-23 at 03:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    …and said ballistae launch a rain of heavy crossbows midair.
    Gnomish Air-burst Technology at it's finest.

    I'll give another hit at Illusions. Illusions are pretty much the bread and butter of Gnomes and what they are most know for. Considering they are Gnomes, you could also have them focus on Underfoot Combat + Confound the big folk with a Mass Reduce Person. "Beware of the Gnomish Infantry in the hills. They are masters of bringing a man down to their level!" Maybe have them know the good ol' combo of Iaijutsu Focus + Gnomish Quick Razor.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Illusions are definitely a big part of a potential gnomish defense.

    Individual illusionists, sneaking out through the tunnels behind the approaching army, create illusions of whole squads of gnomes popping up among the existing troops, so that at best they waste time diverting their energy attacking nothing, and at worst end up shooting each other.

    Illusionary fog clouds over enemy archers and seige weaponry. The defenders know that they're illusions and can see through them, but a large number of the opponents can't.

    Illusionary walls on top of the real parapets mean that defending troops have total concealment from opponents until they get into melee range, but can see out just fine.

    Dancing lights and ghost sound mean never REALLY knowing whether there are gnomish death squads approaching from the other side of that hill.

    Illusionary summoned monsters sent in among the opponents get them used to ignoring such things...and then the gnomes send in the real summons.

    Gnome bards disguised as the invading race infiltrate in advance and use fascinate/suggestion to make many of them think they're going to lose (or that they're scared of baby-eating gnomes, or whatever). Gnome bards in the defense, of course, boost the defenders into long-nosed killing machines with Inspire Courage.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Xin-Shalast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Hmmm... Gnome Fighter Substitution Levels that capitalize on such synergy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    My obsidian tower
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Gnomes are good at alchemy, right? Smokepowder+alchemist's fire= fire cannons!
    The Resistance character:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Uthlas-Reth
    Male CG Grey Elf Wizard 1/Archivist 2, Level 3, Init +3, HP 17/17, Speed
    AC 12, Touch 12, Flat-footed 9, Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +5, Base Attack Bonus 1
    Lt. Crossbow +4 (1d8, 19-20x2)
    5-ft burst Fiery burst DC 17 Reflex (2d6, -)
    Quarterstaff -1 (1d6-2, 20x2)
    (+3 Dex, -1 Misc)
    Abilities Str 6, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
    Condition None

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Xin-Shalast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilmryn View Post
    Gnomes are good at alchemy, right? Smokepowder+alchemist's fire= fire cannons!
    Ooo, that reminds me, illusion-covered punji stick pits and areas of the battlefield covered with caltrops...
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    With the whole trickery/illusions thing going on...
    [Okay, this isn't so much for a settlement as strategy in general]

    Make illusions of things that would make armies stall (forts, towers, walls, etc.). Also, you could pull a fake-out on them: make an illusion that looks a *lot* like the gnomish army, keep marching it into the enemy, do this for a very long time until they realize that these armies are just illusions. If they stop reacting to the fake army(s), bring out the real one and catch them with their pants down. If they respond to every one as a legitimate threat, keep at it and wear their morale down as far as it can go. Make them doubt their maps (random forests, mountains, deserts, change the roads up): medieval armies had pretty unreliable maps as it was, but that would just make it hell. Good luck managing supply caravans when the road to stops 30 miles away from camp. Hide your real forts and settlements and put up fake ones where you think the army's marching. Also, if you can, put things up to psyche them out like in 'Nam (mutilated corpses, screaming women, images of the commander being murdered).

    TLDR: Abuse illusions, guerrilla tactics all the way. Works even better if the gnomes have a lot of land/illusionists to work with.

    EDIT: Didn't read the part with the tunnel network... have guys pop up through holes in the ground, let a few shots/spells off, and go back in before anyone notices.
    Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2010-12-23 at 03:53 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Vancouver WA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Lots of illusions, traps and misdirection, mixed with enough actual siege equipment and legitimate hit and run assaults to keep the enemy guessing. Invisible sapping teams and alchemy based explosives. Small enclosed tunnels filled with badgers/dire badgers and or gnomish infantry formations. Throw in illusionary towns and or making illusions of your own forces over the forces of your enemy while having your own forces illusioned to look like your enemy.. mass confusion for the enemy, easy pickings for the gnomes. Until the enemy whips out something to see through all the illusionary fun.

    And when the enemy goes for something to see through the illusions.. two words..

    INVISIBLE DARKNESS
    Spoiler
    Show
    A darkness 15 foot radius type spell, metamagicked/changed to make the spell invisible. So if you don't have true sight or a way of seeing past illusions you can see just fine, if you do you are effectively blinded. Liberally spread out over the field of operations to make the opponent blind or so paranoid they leave.
    Battle Aura by Tavin Mars
    Spoiler
    Show
    I Will Not Stand By
    I Will Not Give Up
    I Will Let My Presence Be Felt
    To The Utmost of My Ability
    Regardless Of The Battle
    I Shall Fight

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    I'm going to go with illusions too, but instead of using them to confuse and confound the enemy, use them to scare them. Illusions of horrible ghosts and geists, reanimated soldiers, etc. Break the enemy's morale directly, rather than doing so via fatigue.

    Also, if you can figure out a way to make the illusion only visible to certain people, make one officer see one threat, another something different, and so on...and leave the troops unaffected. Instant mutiny as the troops lose faith in their leadership.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Rasman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Gnome Commandos.

    They were...a little crazy...but pretty hardcore. They used Gillie suits and other types of sneaky sneaky to launch ambushes on the main roads headed in the direction of their settlement.

    They're the most interesting Gnomes I've ever run into that didn't make me want to drop kick them into a river.
    The Super Special Awesome Yiuel made my very manly Avatar
    The Great Steam Golem, Blitzcrank!

    He really has a heart of gold...encased in a framework of iron...in a carapace of steel.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Escheton's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Netherlands

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Earth Ele's
    Alchemist Fire Golems
    Catapults that shoot hang-glider-trebuchets that swing soft-landing-balistae that shoot heavy-crossbow-golems(homunculi)
    Badgers, lots and lots of badgers.
    Dire badgers, bunches
    Maze tunnel tactics, no gnome city can openly be approached.
    "Quick Draw. It grants the ability to turn any boring non-combat scenario into combat as a FREE ACTION."-Deleted User

    Handy links:

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Fluff-wise, Gnomes need to be significantly different from Tucker's Kobolds. I personally like them as Tucker's Kobolds + long term planning = elegance. Gnomish trickery should be strategic (and not require constant reflex saves just to go to the pub), not tactical and improvised.

    For example, any scenario in which you lay siege to the town, have a hard fought battle, finally break in, and only then realize you've lost: because the whole town was an illusion, because the whole town was a trap, because meanwhile the Gnomes sold your home city to the highest bidder, something like that.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Xin-Shalast
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorj View Post
    For example, any scenario in which you lay siege to the town, have a hard fought battle, finally break in, and only then realize you've lost: because the whole town was an illusion, because the whole town was a trap, because meanwhile the Gnomes sold your home city to the highest bidder, something like that.
    And in Zilargo, Eberron: All of the above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Combat
    Gnomes prefer misdirection and deception over direct confrontation.

    They would rather befuddle or embarrass foes (other than goblinoids or kobolds) than kill them.

    Gnomes make heavy use of illusion magic and carefully prepared ambushes and traps whenever they can.


    Yeah, traps, illusions, humiliation, ambushes, etc. What everyone said. I'll add passageways (e.g., through or between city walls) with arrow slits and murder-holes (basically melee slits), with false walls permanent illusions and other tricks to confuse those trying to pass through them.

    The nearby dwarves could provide professional stonework while the elves provide some minor magic items: elixirs of hiding and sneaking. Along with alchemical items and potions from the gnomes. Most low level grunt soldiers will only have one or two per battle due to cost but you can still go a long way with that. The 1-2% captains and other elites will probably be around level 5 and have more permanent magic items like hats of disguise (I'm a goblin!), rings of feather fall (wall elite paratrooper corps go!), lesser rods of extend spell and 2nd level wands of spells like invisibility.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2010-12-23 at 06:21 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Illusions that convince the enemy that different units are Gnomes, so they slaughter each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mikeavelli's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Can you put Magitek-Mecha into the mix? I've always wanted to see Gnomes in Mecha.
    If RPG's have taught me anything, it's that all social and economic problems of the world can be solved through murder.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeavelli View Post
    Can you put Magitek-Mecha into the mix? I've always wanted to see Gnomes in Mecha.
    Aren't those called Warforged?

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mikeavelli's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Do warforged have little compartments for their gnomish pilots to ride in?
    If RPG's have taught me anything, it's that all social and economic problems of the world can be solved through murder.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    My suggestion would be this. First, you have every spellcaster in the town use their highest level illusion to put hundreds of identical mountain illusions on top of the town's real location. Every enemy should fail against at least one save to disbelieve should they interact with it, so they're unlikely to find the real location. Then, have your illusionists create a full-blown copy of the village. Set up all kinds of traps that trigger as soon as anything touches the walls (with a size limit of course, you don't want to have birds setting the traps off, after all). Really use your imagination here.

    From there, I think it would probably follow fairly standard siege warfare, but with nonstandard ammunition, mostly involving alchemical stuff (acid, flaming oils, all sorts of stuff). I'd consider using ballistae or even cannons in place of catapults. Gnomes should have more advanced technology than the attackers at the very least.

    EDIT: Definitely use illusions during the battle too. Gnomish battle units showing up in the middle of their units is a pretty good idea.
    Last edited by AshDesert; 2010-12-23 at 06:36 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Not in midwestern USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How would you defend Gnomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeavelli View Post
    Can you put Magitek-Mecha into the mix? I've always wanted to see Gnomes in Mecha.
    I second this motion. Even my normally gnome-adverse group has agreed to play in a game with these, if we can ever figure out how to stat it. My personal suggestion would be gnomish artificers with modified golems that load various wand chambers and what not.
    Last edited by bladesmith; 2010-12-23 at 06:51 PM.
    "The more I talk, the stupider I sound." ~Me
    "Life is what you make of it." ~Deadpool

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •