Help? New to D&D. Playing 3.5. Dwarven Campaign

[DropKickBananas]

Hey guys, first post here. I've been doing some research on character builds and whatnot but I am not getting anywhere.
I have been invited to play in a Dwarven Campaign, we have a Dwarf Cleric, Dwarf Barbarian, and even a Dwarf Wizard.

I'm thinking about being a Fighter (DPS Tank maybe?). Fighters get many feats but I just have no idea on how to build a character.
We have access to Races of Stone and maybe even Complete Warrior.
We are starting at LVL 6 and going from there.
We rolled for stats and I got:
17
17
17
16
11
11

I want to have fun with my character, the guy playing the Cleric wants to take Agro in battles, and the Barbarian is going to be very agile and powerful, he also is going to have ranged attacks. I don't know where this leaves me.
Since I am new to D&D I was hoping on getting some advice on a build, or tips of any kind would be very grateful.
Thanks for reading!

[Coidzor]

You don't have much/any way to deal with things requiring skills at lower levels, so I would suggest looking into filling that role. The skillmonkey, that is.

I believe there might be some Dwarven Rogue racial substitution levels in races of stone worth considering.

hmm... SRD/core, races of stone, and complete warrior...

Here's a build, the Horizon Tripper, that might give you some ideas about what you can do with core-only.

Thankfully with those stats you rolled, you have a fair number of options...

Hmm, is the Unearthed Arcana component of the SRD available to you?

[Sarakos]

Like Coidzor said, the only thing your party doesn't have is a skillmonkey and you might consder that. If fighter is what you want though the only fighting style that doesn't seem to be covered by your group is two handed weapon fighting (it sounded like your barbarian was going the two weapon fighting route).

The essentials to any two handed fighting build are power attack and cleave, quick draw is also potentially useful as well. You could make an ubercharger build that charges into melée swinging a greataxe or greatsword for massive damage. It may also be useful to carry a composite longbow with you to deal with pesky flying creatures. By spending an extra 100gp per bonus you can add up to your strength bonus in damage to your longbow.

One question, are those your stats before or after you added in the free attribute point at 4th level?

[DropKickBananas]

Wow wasn't expecting such a quick response.
Hmm its something to think about I have 45 points to pt in skills. Looking at the list at first glance I decided to give him 9 intimidate, 4 search, 4 sleight of hand, 5 climb, and I put 5 in two crafts so he can make armor and weapons. (It goes along with his background of being a blacksmith)

If I were to hypothetically play a fighter these would be my Stats:

STR 18+4
DEX 17+3
CON 20+5
INT 16 +3
WIS 11
CHA 9 -1

I will have to take a look at that, I also believe that we do have access to Unearthed Arcana.

[Coidzor]

Core+Races of Stone only, the best you can do with charging is power attack and mounted combat.

Thankfully, Races of Stone allows you to pick up Tunnel Fighting and its improved form that allows your mount to occupy a space one size category smaller than itself without taking combat penalties.

So... a Fighter 6 could get

1: Mounted Combat
F1: Ride-By-Attack
F2: Spirited Charge
3: Power Attack
F4: Feat (Cleave? Wild Cohort!? )
6: Tunnel Fighting
F6: Tunnel Riding

Using a lance, that would be x3 damage on a charge and ~6 for one power attack damage (2 for one from power attacking with a lance wielded with two hands, tripled by using spirited charge and a lance).

If you can play with flaws, then you don't need to be straight fighter, and could dip rogue.

Of course, with appropriate skill ranks/lenient DM, a regular old warhorse will be fine for a mount for a fair while yet.

If you put your 11s in charisma and dexterity, you should have plenty of skillpoints(well, relatively) and being mounted counteracts one of the principle disadvantages of having a low movement speed (which you'd have regardless of armor)

[veven]

If you can convince your DM to let you use one itsy bisty Alternate Class Feature from dungeonscape, Dungeoncrasher fighters are great. Shoving people into walls for 8d6 + 3x str mod is awesome. You get a couple other useful (although rather situational) bonuses too.

I know its not in your available material, but if you can swing it with your DM it's super fun.

Edit: realized i used the phrase "Super Fun" three times.

[DropKickBananas]

Haha awesome, it might be really cool to get some Rouge stuff in it too I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to do some studying.
Before you said that my feats were:

Combat Expertise
Power Attack
Toughness
Cleave
Dodge
Quick Draw
and Endurance

but now with the mount it changes everything, SWEET!

I gotta look in to it again haha thanks

[DropKickBananas]

Wow thanks guys so much.
Our DM is a player too, hes 15 years old and hes been playing since he was 5 he's extremely lenient and he's encouraged to let us mold the game in to our own as long as it isn't anything too extreme. He told us that our characters can have one special thing that they can do, (I.E. instead of our Barbarian having to draw both of his weapons as an action he just does it automatically)

This is going to be awesome.
I appreciate all of the input

[DropKickBananas]

@ Sarakos
Yes I was thinking about being a two handed weapon fighter as well.
It was added in after too. Sorry I missed your response earlier you brought up some good stuff. Hadnt thought about the longbow that might be useful, but I was going to use the Greataxe or the Dwarven waraxe? I believe it was called. There's so much to this! haha I'm loving it though.

[DropKickBananas]

as for being the party skill monkey, what would you suggest?
I don't know how much I should put in each skill that I choose.
for example since I might have a mount would I want to max it out from the beginning? or does it not matter?

[mootoall]

as for being the party skill monkey, what would you suggest?
I don't know how much I should put in each skill that I choose.
for example since I might have a mount would I want to max it out from the beginning? or does it not matter?

Well if you're going to be a skillmonkey you'd want rogue over fighter. If you're allowed to be a gnome instead of a dwarf, whispergnomes are the best for that, and are from races of stone. If not, dwarves are very passable.

I'd put the 17s into Dex, Int and Con, the 16 into Cha and the 11s in Str and Wis.

Grab TWF and Weapon Finesse, and ask if you can get the TWF tree as a scaling feat as your special "trick."

[Coidzor]

Hadnt thought about the longbow that might be useful, but I was going to use the Greataxe or the Dwarven waraxe? I believe it was called. There's so much to this! haha I'm loving it though.

Wielded in two hands, the only difference is cost, weight, and 1 average damage per hit between the two weapons.

Compare the two weapons, power attacking for 2 on a charge with a strength of 22 (18 + 4 item).

Spoiler

Show

[1d12 (6.5 avg) + 9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2)] = 14 minimum, 25 maximum, 19.5 average damage.

* 2 spirited charge = 28 min, 50 max, 39 avg.

vs.

[1d10 (5.5 avg) +9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2)] = 14 minimum, 23 max, 18.5 average

* 2 spirited charge = 28 min, 46 max, 37 avg.

So the real difference between the two weapons is slight.

Now compare these with the damage from a lance, which has reach.

Spoiler

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1d8(4.5 avg) + 9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2) = 14 minimum, 21 maximum, 17.5 average

*3 for spirited charge = 42 minimum, 63 maximum, 52.5 average damage

Of course, with a lance, you need a backup weapon for when they survive getting to you through your reach. Armor spikes and/or spiked gauntlets are good for this, but suffer from a lack of power attack. Thankfully though, you can usually have your mount take a five-foot step and still have the lance be used, so that drawback isn't really much of one, though remember to have a blunt backup weapon(I recommend club or morningstar) and a dagger.

For ranged, slings are good to have around for applying your strength to damage without needing to pay for that strength rating on a composite longbow (though, if you're going to be using the bow mounted, then you might as well have such a Masterwork composite longbow if you can afford it.) and as free, weightless backup weapons for everyone.

...Edit:

Anyway, in regards a mount, you only really need to be able to reliably make a DC 15 check (to take cover from enemy attacks and gain +4 AC) A higher check than that is nice because you can, I believe once a round, try to prevent an attack that would hit your mount by substituting your ride check for the mount's Armor Class.

I'm trying to think of good feats for a rogue to take... and kinda failing. There's not that many good ones I can think of from Complete Warrior and Races of Stone... :/ Most of the ones I can think of are basically for fighter/rogue multiclass builds.

Skills-wise, the barebones essentials for a rogue are search and disable device, in order to take care of traps. Those two skills are the ones you would keep maxed even if multiclassed as a fighter/rogue. Spot and Listen are very nice to prevent getting surprised by combat encounters. Open Lock depends upon the DM. If you don't encounter locks that often, you can come back later or use a scroll of knock that the wizard made. Or use an adamantine arrow/mace/dagger to sunder the lock/door.

[DropKickBananas]

Well if you're going to be a skillmonkey you'd want rogue over fighter. If you're allowed to be a gnome instead of a dwarf, whispergnomes are the best for that, and are from races of stone. If not, dwarves are very passable.

I'd put the 17s into Dex, Int and Con, the 16 into Cha and the 11s in Str and Wis.

Grab TWF and Weapon Finesse, and ask if you can get the TWF tree as a scaling feat as your special "trick."

Its strictly Dwarves, I'll keep in mind what you said but I might stick with Fighter/Rogue.
I do want to be a little versatile with my character and make him stand out from everyone else.

Wielded in two hands, the only difference is cost, weight, and 1 average damage per hit between the two weapons.

Compare the two weapons, power attacking for 2 on a charge with a strength of 22 (18 + 4 item).

Spoiler

Show

[1d12 (6.5 avg) + 9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2)] = 14 minimum, 25 maximum, 19.5 average damage.

* 2 spirited charge = 28 min, 50 max, 39 avg.

vs.

[1d10 (5.5 avg) +9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2)] = 14 minimum, 23 max, 18.5 average

* 2 spirited charge = 28 min, 46 max, 37 avg.

So the real difference between the two weapons is slight.

Now compare these with the damage from a lance, which has reach.

Spoiler

Show

1d8(4.5 avg) + 9 strength + 4 power attack (2*2) = 14 minimum, 21 maximum, 17.5 average

*3 for spirited charge = 42 minimum, 63 maximum, 52.5 average damage

Of course, with a lance, you need a backup weapon for when they survive getting to you through your reach. Armor spikes and/or spiked gauntlets are good for this, but suffer from a lack of power attack. Thankfully though, you can usually have your mount take a five-foot step and still have the lance be used, so that drawback isn't really much of one, though remember to have a blunt backup weapon(I recommend club or morningstar) and a dagger.

For ranged, slings are good to have around for applying your strength to damage without needing to pay for that strength rating on a composite longbow (though, if you're going to be using the bow mounted, then you might as well have such a Masterwork composite longbow if you can afford it.) and as free, weightless backup weapons for everyone.

...Edit:

Anyway, in regards a mount, you only really need to be able to reliably make a DC 15 check (to take cover from enemy attacks and gain +4 AC) A higher check than that is nice because you can, I believe once a round, try to prevent an attack that would hit your mount by substituting your ride check for the mount's Armor Class.

I'm trying to think of good feats for a rogue to take... and kinda failing. There's not that many good ones I can think of from Complete Warrior and Races of Stone... :/ Most of the ones I can think of are basically for fighter/rogue multiclass builds.

Skills-wise, the barebones essentials for a rogue are search and disable device, in order to take care of traps. Those two skills are the ones you would keep maxed even if multiclassed as a fighter/rogue. Spot and Listen are very nice to prevent getting surprised by combat encounters. Open Lock depends upon the DM. If you don't encounter locks that often, you can come back later or use a scroll of knock that the wizard made. Or use an adamantine arrow/mace/dagger to sunder the lock/door.

I think I'm going to take your advice Coidzor, I like the idea of multi-classing with the fighter and rogue just because thats the kind of character I imagined, I like the abilities of both and I think that they might mix pretty well. I wasn't planning on having a mount in the beginning but it's pretty much necessary now. I'll have to do a little reading and and see how all of this looks when the build is finished.
Again thanks for everything, everyone!

[Coidzor]

Well, if you're hooked by the idea of a mounted build, the rules of the game articles on mounted combat may come in handy then.

As would the handle animal guide and the RG articles on animals

[Caphi]

Everyone else is already giving great advice, but I just had to point this out

(I.E. instead of our Barbarian having to draw both of his weapons as an action he just does it automatically)

Any character with a BAB of at least one (first level fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers, and second level everything else) is allowed to draw their weapon(s) as part of a move action they're already using to move, so the only time this helps is when the barbarian wants to charge (and maybe not even then). If he is, indeed, a two-weapon barbarian, a better idea may be to let him attack with both weapons when charging.

[DropKickBananas]

Everyone else is already giving great advice, but I just had to point this out



Any character with a BAB of at least one (first level fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers, and second level everything else) is allowed to draw their weapon(s) as part of a move action they're already using to move, so the only time this helps is when the barbarian wants to charge (and maybe not even then). If he is, indeed, a two-weapon barbarian, a better idea may be to let him attack with both weapons when charging.

It may have been along the lines of "it can be instantly done" or something but yeah that would actually be pretty sweet. I'll let the guys know thanks :D

[DropKickBananas]

Well, if you're hooked by the idea of a mounted build, the rules of the game articles on mounted combat may come in handy then.

As would the handle animal guide and the RG articles on animals

wow I can't thank you enough that's awesome.
Theres so much to take in haha

[Coidzor]

Yeah, the articles help by condensing and explaining a fair bit of information without having to hunt through the body of material for references. Though of course, there's still some of that one must do anyway, but having the big stuff laid out helps with skimming for differences.

[DropKickBananas]

Yeah, the articles help by condensing and explaining a fair bit of information without having to hunt through the body of material for references. Though of course, there's still some of that one must do anyway, but having the big stuff laid out helps with skimming for differences.

For sure, I'm not necessarily hooked on having a mount but its a great reference to have.

[Sarakos]

If you do go the mount route just be sure to grab spirited charge, do 3x damage with a lance on horseback, you also do an additional 2x damage if your charging so that's 5x damage on a mounted charge.

Ride-by-attack lets you keep moving on past your target setting you up for another charge next round. Don't forget to power attack while your at it :)

[The Glyphstone]

It may have been along the lines of "it can be instantly done" or something but yeah that would actually be pretty sweet. I'll let the guys know thanks :D

There's a feat for that - Quick Draw. Multi-attacking on a charge is cooler, since he can just take said feat to get his free weapon draws anyways, and Pouncing is harder to get, and can get convoluted if you're new to the game.

[DropKickBananas]

There's a feat for that - Quick Draw. Multi-attacking on a charge is cooler, since he can just take said feat to get his free weapon draws anyways, and Pouncing is harder to get, and can get convoluted if you're new to the game.

After thinking about it, it might have been something along the lines of allowing him to use both of his weapons as a single action. But yeah haha I know about quick draw, it's one of the feats I'm going to give my Dwarf.

[mootoall]

If you do go the mount route just be sure to grab spirited charge, do 3x damage with a lance on horseback, you also do an additional 2x damage if your charging so that's 5x damage on a mounted charge.

Ride-by-attack lets you keep moving on past your target setting you up for another charge next round. Don't forget to power attack while your at it :)

I thought, with the multiplying rules, that would only be X4 ... Also, if you can get your mount to jump as part of the charge, with Leap Attack ...

[Coidzor]

If you do go the mount route just be sure to grab spirited charge, do 3x damage with a lance on horseback, you also do an additional 2x damage if your charging so that's 5x damage on a mounted charge.:)

I thought, with the multiplying rules, that would only be X4 ... Also, if you can get your mount to jump as part of the charge, with Leap Attack ...

[Morbo]Spirited Charge does not work that way. [/Morbo]

You do 3x with a lance while mounted and charging (normally you do 2x with a lance while mounted and charging, so it actually does follow the multiplication rules for doubling twice), or if you're not using a lance, then you do double damage with a charge.

And then if you crit you would do 2+(X-1) times your rolled damage with a non-lance weapon, where X=your crit multiplier. So a greatsword would do x3 damage on a charging crit, a scythe would do x5 damage on a charging crit, and a guisarme would do x4 damage on a charging crit with this feat. With a lance (unless you get materials that change the crit multiplier like kaorti resin), you'd do 3+(3-1), so 5x damage on a charging crit.

[DropKickBananas]

What do you guys think about this build?
The Horizon Walker caught my eye earlier in the thread. I'm not sure I'll keep some of the feats like TWF but its a start.


Ranger1/Barbarian 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Horizon Walker 9/Barbarian 6

Feats:

Spoiler

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1: Power Attack, Extra Rage
3: Improved Bull Rush
4: Two Weapon Fighting
5: Endurance
6: Shock Trooper, Leap Attack
7: Improved Sunder
9: Steadfast Determination
12: Combat Brute
15: Battle Jump
18: Quicken SLA: Dimension Door (or whatever you want)

Horizon Walker terrains:

Spoiler

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* Desert: you resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.
* Forest: You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.
* Marsh: You have a +4 competence bonus on Move Silently checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against marsh creatures.
* Hills: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Listen checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against hills creatures.
* Plains: You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.
* Underground : you have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.
* Shifting (Planar): You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane that bring you closer to your destination, giving you the spell-like ability to use dimension door (as the spell cast at your character level) once every 1d4 rounds. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals native to a shifting plane.
* Cavernous (Planar): You gain tremorsense with a 30-foot range.
* Aligned (Planar): You have the instinctive ability to mimic the dominant alignment of the plane. You incur none of the penalties for having an alignment at odds with that of the plane, and spells and abilities that harm those of the opposite alignment don’t affect you. You have the dominant alignment of the plane with regard to magic, but your behavior and any alignment-related Class Features you have are unaffected.
* Fiery (Planar): This kind of planar terrain mastery provides you with resistance to fire 20. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals with the fire subtype.
* Cold (Planar): T his kind of planar terrain mastery provides you with resistance to cold 20. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals with the cold subtype.

Abilities:

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Pounce
Rage 4/day.
Sneak Attack +1d6
Trapfinding
Uncanny Dodge
10 Terrain Masteries

[eyelessgame]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents in case you do make a rogue - the core combat benefit to a rogue is his sneak attack.

Don't multiclass to anything that slows your sneak atk progression.

Do take feats and skills that make it easier to get your sneak attack; improved init, maxed Spot, Tumble to 14.

Look for feats that give you more chances to hit your opponent. 2WF, Weapon Finesse, and even the nonsexy Weapon Focus (my fave rogue build gets all of those as fast as possible).

[DropKickBananas]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents in case you do make a rogue - the core combat benefit to a rogue is his sneak attack.

Don't multiclass to anything that slows your sneak atk progression.

Do take feats and skills that make it easier to get your sneak attack; improved init, maxed Spot, Tumble to 14.

Look for feats that give you more chances to hit your opponent. 2WF, Weapon Finesse, and even the nonsexy Weapon Focus (my fave rogue build gets all of those as fast as possible).

What's your favorite rogue build?

[Dragon Elite]

Rogue 8/Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 3

5d6 eldritch blast, ability to get fly, 5d6 sneak attack, death attack.
Not the most optimized, but with eldritch claws and Craven+Greater Chaucible of power you can get 7d6/7d6.

If you're feeling the need for some cheese,

Rogue 1/Warlock 6/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 10
Hey, at least I used some rogue in there!
Legacy Champion and Hellfire warlock gives +16d6 damage. If you don't want to use Legacy Cheese, take

Rogue7/Warlock7/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3.

This is only +4d6 hellfire damage, but it's still worth it.

Then again, I also like rogue 3/fighter 6/rogue 11. Simple, and less feat-starved than pure rogue.

[DropKickBananas]

You see since we're all Dwarfs I'm good as long as I play a character with a fun set of classes. It's pretty much my first time playing so I don't necessarily know everything yet haha.
Now I'm thinking about going:
Barbarian 1 / Fighter 1 / Ranger 3 / Horizon Walker 10
or
Ranger 1/ Fighter 1/ Barbarian 1/ Ranger 2/ Horizon Walker 10
Gives me more skills and a lowered hp
or
Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/ Ranger 1/ Horizon Walker 10
This gives me 1 less feat but my hp is higher


Since we're starting at level 6 I can pick up my feats and be ready to go.

[Coidzor]

The SRD tells you that much. (Class value + Int Mod)x4 Skillpoints at 1st level, class value + Int Mod at every subsequent level. And this has the bit about multiclass characters.

Without Dungeonscape to trade Track and Swift Tracker for Trapfinding, I'd recommend adding a level of Rogue for your first level.