grenades n' lazerz... in D&D

[aart lover]

i came upon a sad sight indeed whilst skimming the Dungeon Master's Manual. it had tables and rules for.... assault rifles and grenade launchers, not to mention LAZER GUNZ!!!!!!!!!! can anyone tell me why there guns and grenades in FRICKING D&D?!!? i don't know if this is the case for 4.0 and 4.5 but in v.3.5 they are there. i need answers to this madness!!!

[Scoot]

They're there for use in campaign settings in the appropriate time periods.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Because they're optional rules for if the game calls for them.

Edit: For example, a post-apocalyptic campaign where the world of D&D as we know it is actually our world after some sort of disaster might call for them occasionally.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Sci-fi stuff doesn't belong in D&D? I beg to differ.

[Keinnicht]

Sci-fi stuff doesn't belong in D&D? I beg to differ.

You beat me to it. I was just about to mention the freaking power armor.

[Siosilvar]

Sci-fi stuff doesn't belong in D&D? I beg to differ.

See also: Spelljammer.

Heck, Forgotten Realms had giant space hamsters.

[Ranger Mattos]

i came upon a sad sight indeed whilst skimming the Dungeon Master's Manual. it had tables and rules for.... assault rifles and grenade launchers, not to mention LAZER GUNZ!!!!!!!!!! can anyone tell me why there guns and grenades in FRICKING D&D?!!? i don't know if this is the case for 4.0 and 4.5 but in v.3.5 they are there. i need answers to this madness!!!

Alien attacks?

Also, what's 4.5e?

[Goonthegoof]

D&D essentials.

[aart lover]

well i guess all that makes sense...sort of. i was thinking that medieval era characters would just be all like " MAH LIGHTSABER!!!" and a 1st level bard would pwn everyone with a 20d6 laz3r rifle or something

[Ravens_cry]

They are there in case you, the DM, want to use them.

[Xuc Xac]

well i guess all that makes sense...sort of. i was thinking that medieval era characters would just be all like " MAH LIGHTSABER!!!" and a 1st level bard would pwn everyone with a 20d6 laz3r rifle or something

It's not a lightsaber, it's a brilliant energy bastard sword. Lightsabers are science fiction but brilliant energy weapons are pure medieval history.

[Tetsubo 57]

Don't forget Dragonstar and the supplements for 3.5 Factory and Arsenal. Both of which are fusions of technology and magic and are awesome.

I have never run a campaign of either D&D or Gamma World where the party didn't end up with at least one adventure in the other setting.

[FelixG]

It's not a lightsaber, it's a brilliant energy bastard sword. Lightsabers are science fiction but brilliant energy weapons are pure medieval history.

yep, a brilliant energy bastard sword is pretty much a lightsaber....

I am tempted to make a Psychic Warrior who's main weapon is a red colored brilliant energy bastard sword and call him Darth

[Tetsubo 57]

yep, a brilliant energy bastard sword is pretty much a lightsaber....

I am tempted to make a Psychic Warrior who's main weapon is a red colored brilliant energy bastard sword and call him Darth

Why not play a Soulknife? Because that IS a lightsaber...

[Coidzor]

Why not play a Soulknife? Because that IS a lightsaber...

I think we all know why not to play a Soulknife. Though if necessary I think there's been a couple of essays put together on the subject.

[AslanCross]

well i guess all that makes sense...sort of. i was thinking that medieval era characters would just be all like " MAH LIGHTSABER!!!" and a 1st level bard would pwn everyone with a 20d6 laz3r rifle or something

There's also this.

The reason why the modern and futuristic weapons are in the DMG is that they're not supposed to be easily available player options. They're ideas for the DM to use if he/she so chooses.

[Tetsubo 57]

I think we all know why not to play a Soulknife. Though if necessary I think there's been a couple of essays put together on the subject.

I recommend the new Pathfinder third party book, Psionics Unleashed. It solves your Soulknife issues.

[Kurald Galain]

i came upon a sad sight indeed whilst skimming the Dungeon Master's Manual. it had tables and rules for.... assault rifles and grenade launchers, not to mention LAZER GUNZ!!!!!!!!!!

Well, there's always the Laser Cleric...

[Darrin]

Sci-fi stuff doesn't belong in D&D? I beg to differ.

Even before Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, there were sci-fi elements in D&D. In one of the towers of Castle Greyhawk (before it was ruins), you could run into the bridge crew to the U.S.S. Enterprise.

And the first published TSR scenario, "Temple of the Frog" in the Blackmoor supplement (second supplement to the White Box edition) was based on a sci-fi/fantasy mash-up: the PCs have to deal with the radiation from the core of the crashed spaceship FSS Beagle (name nicked from A.E. van Vogt's "Voyage of the Space Beagle", the same place D&D got it's displacer beast) and giant frog aliens armed with laser rifles and power armor. Later, the crash of the FSS Beagle and the Galactic Federation were reworked into the backstory for the Mystara campaign world.

Don Kaye's original PC Murlynd carried around six-shooters from a time-warp trip to the American Wild West (oddly enough, Gygax apparently had a "no gunpowder" rule in his Greyhawk campaign, but created a loophole for Murlynd).

The original D&D designers were all 100% nerdcore, mostly miniature wargamers who were perfectly comfortable with an army of hovertanks or robosoldiers plowing into a brigade of Napoleonic cavalry or dwarven crossbowmen. Sci-fi wasn't something that was mashed into D&D when they got bored with hack-n-slash fantasy. It was part of D&D from the very beginning. The amount of "pure" fantasy in your game is really up to your own personal preferences.

[ninja_penguin]

There's also the Amethyst 3rd party books for 4th edition that focuses on guns and power armor and tech vs magic stuff.

I was amused when they mentioned they wanted to keep things semi realistic, as the first thing I saw when there was a power armor heavy weapons guy was 'how can I stick a power fist and chainsaws everywhere?'

[aart lover]

meh. i'm still a fan of explaining everything that seems technological as having magical properties.

[Uncertainty]

It's so the Ethergaunts have cool toys to kick you butt with :)

Edit:
Laser guns + 9th level spells = pure awesome.

[Maho-Tsukai]

If you don't like guns and tech with your fantasy then I will give you some advice, don't ever go near D20 modern, Shadowrun or Mutants and Masterminds. As far as tech/si-fi and fantasy mixing, despite not being traditional it's actually quite popular. TAs mentioned above there are many pnP games which blend si-fi and fantasy, and "science-fantasy" settings are also common among videogames and anime/manga. Case in point, Final Fantasy VII.(and many other final fantasy games, for that matter.) Simply put, while not everybody may like putting technology in D&D, there are plenty of people who don't mind it or even enjoy it(I myself being one of those who enjoy it and I have a whole D&D multiverse that mixes fantasy and si-fi..so yeah.)

So while some people may dislike it it's a better move on Wizard's part to include it since people who dislike it can just chose not to include it in their game. However, if Wizards decided not to include it for "purism" sake they would be losing a block of potenitnal consumers and thus would make less money where as if they include it but make it an optional rule(as they did) they can appeal to both the "fantasy pureists" who just refuse to use said rule and those who like science-fantasy settings, thus giving everybody what they want.

So, if you don't want science-fiction in your D&D games the answer is simply to not allow lazers and such in your games. Thats the beauty of D&D. If you dislike a rule or you want to do something that no crunch exsists for you simply disreguard said rule or homebrew said missing crunch. You don't have to play D&D 100% by the books and when you don't stick to all the rules like a bible D&D can become EVEN MORE fun. This flexability is what makes the game so great for many players. I mean, if the rules are not meant to be tweeked, altered and addapted to fit a group's playstyle and tastes then there would be no OGL, third party publishers ect... D&D was created to be user-frendly so if you don't like a rule, class, feat, spell, whatever just don't include it in your games. Problem solved. So agree or disagree, thats my two cents. Make of it what you will.

[Starbuck_II]

There are grenades in Dragon Magic as well (they call them Alchemy vials but they blow up like a fireball when thrown).

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Rules for guns and grenades are in the book so board DMs can give them to monsters.

[true_shinken]

It's not a lightsaber, it's a brilliant energy bastard sword. Lightsabers are science fiction but brilliant energy weapons are pure medieval history.

Madness! D&D's true lightsabers are wands of flame blade.

[Trekkin]

If you don't like guns and tech with your fantasy then I will give you some advice, don't ever go near D20 modern, Shadowrun or Mutants and Masterminds.

Shadowrun always made me chuckle at the blatant copying of the magic combat rules for cybercombat. Any sufficiently advanced technology really IS indistinguishable from magic.

[Chambers]

No one has mentioned Mindflayers yet? They are space aliens from the future. That's pretty sci-fi.

[Coidzor]

Or, heck, psionics. All of it.

[The Glyphstone]

Or, heck, psionics. All of it.

Mercedes Lacky, at the very least, would like to differ, as would a small but notable assortment of other exclusively fantasy authors.

As for the OP - how did you miss the section header there labeled 'Modern and Futuristic Technology' in the section 'Building Other Worlds'? It does explain fairly succinctly the intent of providing said stats.