Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Creature BAB

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mootoall's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Creature BAB

    Does the BAB of creatures (in this case I'm referring specifically to Elementals) follow the same pattern for Epic levels as characters? I.E. BAB would be 3/4 HD for 20 levels, and then continue as the standard epic progression?
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
    Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Current characters: None, looking for a game.


    Homebrew!


    Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Suburban Dystopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Apparently not. The few examples by SRD of monsters with over 20 HD (Solar, Tarrasque) all have BAB = HD, which is normal for Outsider and Magical Beast progression. And elementals going from 21 HD to 24 HD gain 3 BAB.

    Even the example of the 14 HD Frost Giant with 8 levels of Blackguard still gets full BAB from the PrC, despite it's ECL of 26.
    Last edited by gbprime; 2010-12-28 at 02:22 PM.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Easley, SC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Go to the d20 SRD and look up epic monsters. They have some epic elementals listed. That should answer your question after you do a little math.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London, England

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Nope, they progress like nonepic monsters, even if they're in the ELH. For example, the Gloom has +25 BAB, not +20 BAB and a +3 epic attack bonus.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mootoall's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Hmm, and I assume that's the same for saves? Very interesting ... so monsters actually advance faster in epic than classes. Huh. Who'da thunk it?
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
    Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Current characters: None, looking for a game.


    Homebrew!


    Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    All of the wonky Epic Attack Bonus and Epic Save Bonus and such only apply to characters. This is a bit strange in a system where monsters and PC's normally use the same rules, but... it's Epic.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Suburban Dystopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    Hmm, and I assume that's the same for saves? Very interesting ... so monsters actually advance faster in epic than classes. Huh. Who'da thunk it?
    Hey, there had to be SOME advantage to not being a cleric or a warblade. (Or a cleric/warblade.) Looks like we've finally found it.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    To add to what Glimbur said, the Epic rules for attacks and saves don't apply to racial HD. If you had, say an elemental with 20 elemental HD and then 2 levels of Fighter, you'd use the epic rules on attacks/saves for those fighter levels, but non-epic progressions fore more elemental HD, assuming the fighter levels came after the 20 levels of elemental.

    So, yeah, epic is wonky.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    To add to what Glimbur said, the Epic rules for attacks and saves don't apply to racial HD. If you had, say an elemental with 20 elemental HD and then 2 levels of Fighter, you'd use the epic rules on attacks/saves for those fighter levels, but non-epic progressions fore more elemental HD, assuming the fighter levels came after the 20 levels of elemental.

    So, yeah, epic is wonky.
    This seem to err if you look at the frost giant jarl, unless prestige classes are treated different.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *As a DM I run sand-box games.
    Challenge me.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Quote Originally Posted by Otodetu View Post
    This seem to err if you look at the frost giant jarl, unless prestige classes are treated different.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm
    Considering how epic prestige classes lack BAB/Saves lines, I'd say that's probably an issue of that monster being a hold over from 3.0 pre-ELH.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Jan 2010

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    As pointed out, racial HD alone never triggers epic bab or saves. So a creature with 70 outsider HD would have +70 bab.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mootoall's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    As pointed out, racial HD alone never triggers epic bab or saves. So a creature with 70 outsider HD would have +70 bab.
    Would that be a way to get more than four iteratives?
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
    Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Current characters: None, looking for a game.


    Homebrew!


    Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    London, England

    Default Re: Creature BAB

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    Would that be a way to get more than four iteratives?
    Nope, seems to still be limited at 4. The Elder Titan has +70 BAB, but only 4 iteratives.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •