Wealth By Level, how to balance?

[Popertop]

I don't like how wealth by level constitutes such a significant portion of a characters power.
What are some ways to help limit this without screwing the weaker classes?
If it includes weakening the monsters a little, that's fine by me.

What other systems do you play where WBL matters less?

[sonofzeal]

There's a difference between "assets" and "liquid assets". WBL can take various forms. For example, a +5 sword is a hell of a lot of gp, and a healthy step towards meeting any WBL, but it might be more than inconvenient to find a buyer with that much gold on hand who needs a sword like that.

Give your players what they need, let them pass you a "wish list" if need be, and give them some spending money on the side... but if you're the gateway through which magic items pass, then it's up to you how big an impact they make.

[Glimbur]

If you'd like other systems...

Rules Light Choices
-RISUS(cliches, dice, fast and generally silly)
-Wuthering Heights(Rage, Despair, Oldness. 2-5 problems. Few survivors)

Moderately Dense
-Savage Worlds(Expansions for various settings, moderately to wildly different from modern day)
-New World of Darkness(ditto, emphasis on modern day with supernaturals)

Thick and Chewy
-Riddle of Steel(good luck finding this, detailed combat system, dangerous magic)
-GURPS(point based, wants to model everything)

[molten_dragon]

What are some ways to help limit this without screwing the weaker classes

This is the kicker right here. Lower-powered classes (i.e. your fighters, rogues, rangers, etc.) rely much more heavily on magic items than your more powerful classes (i.e. your wizards, sorcerers, clerics, druids, etc.) do. Mostly, it's because spellcasters have spells that mimic the effects of magic items.

Let's say the party is up against a dragon. Among other things, it can fly and it has DR that can be penetrated by magic weapons.

Without magic items, a fighter by himself is in a lot of trouble. He can't fly, and he has no reliable way of dealing damage to the dragon because he doesn't have a magic weapon.

The wizard on the other hand has lots of options that let him fly, and lots of options to deal damage that aren't affected by the damage reduction.

One way to deal with it would be to just cherry-pick the monsters that you have the party fight, and don't make them fight things that require magic items to fight effectively. Once you get into higher levels though, it's going to become extremely difficult to find anything like that.

The other option would be to maybe cut back on everyone's magic items, but give lower-tier characters this version of vow of poverty to make up for it. It might be kind of hard to balance exactly who gets it and who doesn't, but you could probably work something out. Maybe depending on what tier people are, they could get it, but at a level penalty. So tier 5s would get the full benefits, tier 4s would get benefits as a character 4 levels lower than them, tier 3s would get benefits as a character 8 levels lower than them, etc.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't like how wealth by level constitutes such a significant portion of a characters power.
What are some ways to help limit this without screwing the weaker classes?

The only way that would work would be to pre-emptively weaken the higher (full spellcasting classes). Increase the cost of scrolls and spellbooks by a factor of 5. Make every spell deal SL (spell level) hit points of damage when cast. Ban all metamagic cost reducers. And that's just a start.

Really, you're trying to charge up a very steep hill. You would be much better off giving more magical gear to the weaker classes.

[Dingle]

Theroretically, you could add another type of Feat-like thing to give extra power. Look at the wbl table to decide how many (possibly have 3-5 types) to give out, and use item costs to see how many are needed for a power.


eg. 2 minor [things] (equivalent to 1000gp each) can make every longsword you weild into a +1 lonsword

You can conveniently use this to balance noncasters with casters, and make staying in base classes longer more optimal (if you wanted to).

[ericgrau]

My sig has a low magic item system which transfers a lot of the bonuses into things you buy with points when you level up instead of bonuses you get from treasure.

Otherwise it's too hard to take out wealth without unbalancing the game in D&D. Items and class features tend to be better at boosting different kinds of things, so you can't simply give more levels or lower CR to make up for it.

White Wolf and Paranoia are two systems I know that don't depend heavily on having a million items but I don't know if that's what you're after.

[Grommen]

I hand out loot, items, and stuff as needed. Meaning if my melee types are getting hit to often, and not dealing enough damage, I tend to give out items that will fix that problem. I kinda look at the Wealth by Level chart and use it as a guide but it's not the rule of law. Most of our characters are well under that number. So are the NPC's they fight.

Just finished a campaign last night and found the "Treasure" room. It's supposed to have as much junk in it to make up for the fact that the previous six EL15 or better encounters had no loot at all. Gonna be a long night rolling items tonight. :)

SoK cause I quite literally "Cought on Fire" one of the players and he rolled the dredded "1" on his reflex save and lost everything but his sword and his portable hole. WBL ain't gonna fix that problem. I am.

[awa]

iron heroes was low gear although it did it by having more powerful martial class who had more skill points, better saves and a defense bonus based on class level.

[Popertop]

I hand out loot, items, and stuff as needed. Meaning if my melee types are getting hit to often, and not dealing enough damage, I tend to give out items that will fix that problem. I kinda look at the Wealth by Level chart and use it as a guide but it's not the rule of law. Most of our characters are well under that number. So are the NPC's they fight.

Just finished a campaign last night and found the "Treasure" room. It's supposed to have as much junk in it to make up for the fact that the previous six EL15 or better encounters had no loot at all. Gonna be a long night rolling items tonight. :)

SoK cause I quite literally "Cought on Fire" one of the players and he rolled the dredded "1" on his reflex save and lost everything but his sword and his portable hole. WBL ain't gonna fix that problem. I am.

This could probably work.

Yeah I've been wanting to try out White Wolf and Paranoia for a while now.

[Endarire]

Many magic items give part of a caster's utility to their user. A Ring of freedom of movement, Wings of Flying, Boots of Teleporation, a Cubic Gate, a Ring of Invisibility, a Gem of true seeing, and a Necklace of Adaptation are the core examples that come to mind.

All of these cost money, a resource not assured.

Unless otherwise stated, experience points or levels are assured. A non-caster must devote a significant part of his power for such a purpose. A caster can devote a spell slot or few.

[Tyndmyr]

7th sea is another fantasy system where magic items are rare. Its not unlikely for sa char to use the same weapon for his entire career.