What CR/LVL? (3.5)

[Balor01]

The group I am currently DM-ing went on a well known path of Stupid Evil. They are cooperating with bandits they were supposed to kill and are currently employed as slave hunters. (while one of them already mauled and butchered a female prisoner as a proof of devotion to his employers) ...

So, regular approach to this campaign went down the drain and I'll need to create some additional stuff to entertain my PC madmen. What I will do is create a few generic adventurer parties, but I have no idea what CR to make them. I really do not care if I TPK these geniuses or not, but it is a fact that lvl 20 clerics hardly deal with a bunch of peasants disappearing in a village of Lost Hollow with 30 souls. So, what do you think, what sort of lvl of adventurers would respond to a disturbing news from a remote area where a few villages were attacked by bandits and most of populace was kidnapped?

[Kaww]

What's the party lvl?

EDIT: Paladins with nothing better to do would help in such a situation even if they were lvl 30...

[Balor01]

I would really like an opinion here with me not revealing the party lvl. But great input on a lvl 30 paladin. Still, I would think that such characters would be concerned with next appearance of Lord of Murder and not some small hamlet being raided.

[Jallorn]

A bored dragon? Or set them up to capture someone important?

[Runestar]

A hunting party of hound archons led by a trumpet archon?

[some guy]

So, what do you think, what sort of lvl of adventurers would respond to a disturbing news from a remote area where a few villages were attacked by bandits and most of populace was kidnapped?

Heh, sounds a bit like the start of the campaign I'm dm'ing. I would say this would be a job for a party of low to low-mid level adventurers. Level 1 to 7?

You get bonus points if you will give the adventuring parties items that hint at past-adventures. A collection of rat-tails, some wizard's clean and washed clothes, for example.

[Ernir]

Depends on how secure this part of the setting is. In some settings, you could probably slaughter 30 people and get away with it.

Now, who should you send?

Ask yourself - who is going to notice first that this village is gone? Or more appropriately, who is going to be the fastest to mount a response?

• The neighboring villagers, arriving with pitchforks and torches, ready to bring medieval justice on the ****ers who killed their friends? (CR 2-3)
• The local lord, outraged that his taxpayers have been rendered unable to pay, sending a squad of trained soldiers after them? (CR 5-6)
• The local clergy, sending someone to investigate and look for survivors? (CR 1-10)
• The national church, sending a squad of its most powerful paladins? (CR 5-20)
• A great hero who passes by, gets angry because he dislikes people being killed/his sister lived there/the innkeeper who got killed made his favourite kind of ale, and goes on a personal vendetta? (CR 1-30)
• The national law enforcing Wizards' agency Scrying them down in order to make sure that everyone knows that their country is the safest one in the world? (CR 10-30)

[LansXero]

Make them unknowingly target someone related to an important authority and you can justify a handful of adventurers taking action. Maybe not too high level, but I think a normal level 3 - 4 quest would be finding what happened to the wife / brother / child of the local baron after been taken by slave traders, not?

Or maybe make it a bit more cruel; make the aforementioned victim TELL THEM just exactly who he/she is, but make it seem like it could be something out of desperation to free / save themselves. Perhaps make a handful of prisoners claim to be related to someone of importance, some of them wild tales and some of them a bit more believable, and one of them turns out to be true.

[Yora]

One thing to get a slight change to burning and pillaging would be that the PCs accidentally kill someone quite important and draw much more attention to themselves than they wanted.
And suddenly they have to deal with professional bounty hunter teams and task forces of paladins with no other mission than to hunt them down and kill them. And since the best defense is a good offense, getting rid of the bounties and death warrants is to take out the guy who wants them dead and also kill off all his lieutanants and destroy his organization. Would be a plot even stupid evil character could enjoy.

[Alleran]

A bored dragon? Or set them up to capture someone important?

A travelling gold dragon would actually be a pretty good idea. It's stated that once gold dragons reach adulthood or similar and start moving around the world, they are known to take on unassuming humanoid forms and posing as wanderers in the hope of luring bandits to strike them, and that "many bandits have attacked lone travellers only to be shocked when the dragon reverts to their true form" (paraphrased from the Draconomicon). They're all at least Good, usually Lawful Good, so they'll definitely get involved if they see injustice that needs a good smiting.

Bronze dragons are another good one, since they can take humanoid form and are known for being associated with paladins. Silver dragons are the third - the other variants generally can't assume humanoid form without specific spells or feats, and I doubt that the players would be willing to try and attack a dragon on their own.

[Killer Angel]

The group I am currently DM-ing went on a well known path of Stupid Evil. They are cooperating with bandits they were supposed to kill and are currently employed as slave hunters. (while one of them already mauled and butchered a female prisoner as a proof of devotion to his employers) ...

Now, suppose that the bandits kidnapped a young beautiful woman, traveling through that area. No ransom was paid, for a reason or another.
The bandits decide to kill the poor girl, after torturing and inflicting other unpleasant things that can be done to a woman.
Don't indulge in details, but make clear it's horrible, and that she cries for help.
The PCs decide that they walk the path of evil too much and help the girl? good for 'em.
The PCs watch and eat popcorn? Don't worry, that night, from the girl's corpse (given to the dogs to eat), a spirit will arise. Go Banshee!

[Adamaro]

Wrong thread

[Balor01]

I love the gold dragon idea. I just love it. Do you think gold dragon would just TPK the evil party or ... Ideas mush appreciated

[Killer Angel]

I love the gold dragon idea. I just love it. Do you think gold dragon would just TPK the evil party or ... Ideas mush appreciated

I, as a player, would be upset by such a thing. It's more fair if the DM says "rocks fall, y'all die". It's putting out from nowhere a punishment.
LansXero's suggestion is better: give some hints to the players... then, smash the PCs. While saying "I gave you a chance, if only you..."

[Ducklord]

Why punish them at all? If they stirred up some trouble send a low level party of adventurers after them. Then if the adventurers don't come back send someone else, etc. But you really gave us way too little information on what exactly your PCs did for us to know who would come chasing aftert them.

Anyway, don't do the "you went off the rails, a dragon eats you". It's just bad DMing.

[Zherog]

I think Ernir is exactly right -- the level of the responder(s) is going to depend greatly on the region of your world. I think his list is pretty well spot-on for determining responses, too.

But let me take it in a different direction...

Is everybody -- including you -- having fun? If so, then there's no reason to send a TPK response at them. By all means, have a response. Actions have consequences, after all. But weave the response into the story and continue to build upon it. You have the basis (from what it sounds) of an interesting "evil" campaign that would allow you all to explore some dark territory, and maybe learn some things -- or at least have fun and blow off steam.

On the other side of that, though... if you're truly not having fun, then the better response would be to talk to your group out of game about it. Explain why it's not fun for you and see if there's some way to get this game back onto a track that is acceptable to everybody. If there's not, then the better course is to simply start anew rather than punishing your group via TPK paladins.

That's my take on it, anyway.