GURPS 4E Opinions?

[SamsDisciple]

So my usual dm is getting bored of d&d and wants to start up a space opera similar to firefly using GURPS 4E. Problem is I have never used that version before... any opinions, recommendations, complaints, or general discussion of 4e

[Doug Lampert]

So my usual dm is getting bored of d&d and wants to start up a space opera similar to firefly using GURPS 4E. Problem is I have never used that version before... any opinions, recommendations, complaints, or general discussion of 4e

I think GURPS fourth edition is far and away the best version of the game.

They've finally noticed that GURPS 1-3 were about as well ballanced as D&D 3.5 and at least tried to do something about it.

That said, it's still GURPS, which IMAO makes it a poor choice for any genre compared to a game designed for the genre. There actually IS a Firefly Serenity RPG out there, I have no idea if it's any good, but I'd buy it and at least look at it prior to using GURPS.

[Kaldrin]

So my usual dm is getting bored of d&d and wants to start up a space opera similar to firefly using GURPS 4E. Problem is I have never used that version before... any opinions, recommendations, complaints, or general discussion of 4e

We run the majority of our games in 4e. It's a very toolkit system and the onus is on the GM to pick what rules he wants to use to make it the game he wants to play. The majority of the basic rules are set to be 'realistic', but there are plenty of optional rules that make everything more survivable and epic. Most of the books are available on pdf for less money than buying the hard copy if you don't mind electronic versions.

The community on the forums is also very helpful, if a little pedantic. Any questions on rules or methods of applying the rules can be put to them and they will readily help out.

I can even answer specific questions if you want.

That said, it's still GURPS, which IMAO makes it a poor choice for any genre compared to a game designed for the genre.

The game actually does present and future very well. The problem for most people is that it is very deadly at future tech levels.... what many call gritty. You can still run a pulpy epic game if you want to. It just takes a little GM work to pick the right optional rules.

For instance, I played a gunslinger who dual wielded pistols in a game and we used the optional rules for that advantage. It turned into an epic feeling and very fun game... better than any other system I've played could have come up with.

[SamsDisciple]

Sounds like exactly what my dm would love, a toolset system that's easy to do your own thing and that the players don't know how to exploit....yet

[Kaldrin]

The learning curve can be high for GMs new to the entire thing, but for players it's pretty straight forward. You have a skill and the GM assigns penalties and bonuses based on what the players are doing and circumstances. Roll against the final number.

[Tiki Snakes]

I have actually played in the Firefly rpg system. It's pretty good at what it's designed for, and certainly worth a look. Probably not as flexible as Gurps, admittedly, but for that kind of space-western, it's pretty spot on.

[Ichneumon]

This might be bit off-topic, but I'm also considering giving GURPS a chance, but the 4e books are all very expensive, while the 3rd editions books are sometimes sold for less than 3 dollars on Amazon. Is there much difference between the 3rd and 4th edition? And would you advise anyone to stay away as far as possible from 3rd edition?

[DukeofDellot]

I have very little experience with third edition, but own it, while Fourth Edition GURPS is my standby system (I'll use it before many other "genre specific" systems).

The big difference is the addition of "Modifiers", traits that effect other traits.

In third edition, there is... for example... a trait called "Dragon's Breath" which does pretty much what you'd think, a cone of burn damage. In Fourth edition, if you look hard enough there's an example of this ability named as such but the official name is "Burning Attack 4d (Cone, 5 yards, +100%; Limited Use, 3/day, -20%; Reduced Range, x1/5, -20%) [32]" which builds up the ability.

Personally, this is enough for me to stay away from earlier editions alone.

There are other differences, but this is the biggest one I can think of...

[mucat]

This might be bit off-topic, but I'm also considering giving GURPS a chance, but the 4e books are all very expensive, while the 3rd editions books are sometimes sold for less than 3 dollars on Amazon. Is there much difference between the 3rd and 4th edition? And would you advise anyone to stay away as far as possible from 3rd edition?

Third edition GURPS suffers from more balance issues than fourth, but it's still a very nice game. They're similar enough that material designed for one edition can be fairly easy to use in a different edition (which is good, since many wonderful third-edition sourcebooks were never converted to fourth.)

If you have a moderate amount of money to invest, you might get the two 4e core books (which are definitely better balanced than their 3e counterparts) and then take advantage of all the relatively inexpensive third-edition sourcebooks out there.

If you do decide to go third-edition all the way, one change you can make to help the balance a bit is to use the fourth-edition costs for attributes at character creation: 10 character points per point of Strength or Health, and 20 per point of Intelligence or Dexterity. This is much better balanced than the sliding scale used in Third edition, where the first few points of Int and Dex are ridiculously underpriced for the benefits they offer. Those stats are still underpriced in fourth, just not absurdly so.

(In return, you could also give the players more points to work with at character creation. 150 points is the default standard in fourth edition, where in third edition it was 100.)

[SamsDisciple]

That's good to know about the transferability between systems because one of the guys in my group own just about every single book printed for 3e so it will be nice to still use those, at least for ideas

[Ragitsu]

You made a fine choice.

[a_humble_lich]

I agree with mucat, third and fourth editions are similar enough that 3e material can easily be used for 4e. The difference is much more like the difference between DnD 3e versus 3.5e than 3e versus 4e or 2e versus 3e.

[Kaldrin]

This might be bit off-topic, but I'm also considering giving GURPS a chance, but the 4e books are all very expensive, while the 3rd editions books are sometimes sold for less than 3 dollars on Amazon. Is there much difference between the 3rd and 4th edition? And would you advise anyone to stay away as far as possible from 3rd edition?

My opinion is that 3e is more prone to being unbalanced if you use the raw in the books. We had a lot of houserules that never were printed anywhere that made the mechanics and some of the advantages easier to work with. Still a perfectly serviceable system.

However, once you get into converting it over, mechanics-wise, it takes a lot of knowledge of the reasons certain things work certain ways in 4e or you unbalance it again.

Meanwhile, 4e does have some balance issues too, but a competent GM can just make certain rulings and take care of them easily.