3.5 Possible to full attack, attack and move?

[Sploosh]

Hey guys,

Getting back into 3.5, one of my friends has asked for advice on building a concept. She wants to be able to be able to throw a dagger at someone and wade in with two other weapons in the same attack sequence.

I find getting such a sequence reliably to be difficult in the best conditions but she also wants to avoid psionics and casters. We'll be starting at level 12 and besides a few one time tricks like simple belts of battle or eating the AoO, I can't think of anything. Does anyone with Op-fu greater than mine have any suggestions?

Edit: I changed the title becaue it was a little misleading. It doesnt need to be a second full attack as much as at least a single attack

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Abrupt Jaunt+shadow pounce
Battle Jump plus Lion Totem Barbarian plus move actions

There are more, but those are probably the easiest.

[Necroticplague]

Time Stands Still+Raging Mongoose+Pounce=Full round attack+charge+fullround attack (with 4 extra attacks.).

[Sploosh]

She wants to be able to do this: Throw dagger at someone--> draw other weapons--> attack people with said weapons and do this all in the same turn. If she attacks from range then she can't charge for her pounce and if she attacks with her ranged weapon up close she's going to get the snot kicked out of her.

You're right about abrupt jaunt possible working, as she could charge and full attack with one of her later attacks instead being a dagger toss after the other hits and a quick jaunt. Is there a better way?

Edit: Time stands still does the trick but it wouldnt be available at her level.

[Elric VIII]

Time Stands Still+Raging Mongoose+Pounce=Full round attack+charge+fullround attack (with 4 extra attacks.).

You could also use Time Stands Still, finish your first full attack, activate Quicksilver Motion (since you can take free actions during full attacks and full round actions), then take your second full attack.

EDIT: Drawing a weapon during a move is a free action to anyone with BAB +1, so you can do it during your quicksilver motion.

EDIT 2.0: At level 13 Warblade she could acquire Quicksilver motion.

My group, realizing that ranged combat isn't too powerful, has also allowed throwing a weapon to be equivalent to a move action; this might be something to consider.

Also, it would take 2 turns, but she could ranged full attack on one turn, then use a White Raven charge to avoid AoO when entering into combat. 2 turns may seem like a lot, but remember that one round is only 6 seconds.

[Keld Denar]

Sounds like Neraph Throw in the planar handbook. Also, someone link person_man's guide to free movement.

[Adamantrue]

Hurling Charge + Two Weapon Pounce? You could pull off both by 6th level, though it wouldn't be Wading into combat so much as Charging. Would require some boosts to stay competitive, but it requires less complicated rules and choices than other options.

[John Campbell]

You can take the attacks in a full attack with any weapon you have ready. With the Quick Draw feat, readying a weapon is a free action. With the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, there's no penalty for attacking with an off-hand weapon. And you can take your five-foot step during your full attack.

This means she should be able to throw a dagger she has in hand (or even Quick Draw and throw, if she has the hand free), Quick Draw a melee weapon in that hand, then five-foot-step into melee and continue her full attack with her melee weapons.

[Ernir]

Sounds like Neraph Throw in the planar handbook. Also, someone link person_man's guide to free movement.

Sounds more to me like Hurling Charge from the Miniatures Handbook. That feat, however, stinks, as it broadly disallows all forms of pouncing.

Also, Person_man's guide to free movement.

[Darrin]

She wants to be able to do this: Throw dagger at someone--> draw other weapons--> attack people with said weapons and do this all in the same turn. If she attacks from range then she can't charge for her pounce and if she attacks with her ranged weapon up close she's going to get the snot kicked out of her.

If she has Quickdraw, she can mix thrown weapon attacks and melee weapon attacks into the same full attack routine, assuming she can get a hand free. If she has Rapid Shot, she gets one extra ranged attack per round, even if she's already using all her full-round attacks as melee attacks. She takes a -2 on all her attacks and she'll provoke an AoO, but there are ways to mitigate that.

She can also mix Rapid Shot with TWF on a full melee attack... yeah, okay, it's a -4 penalty on all her attacks, but it can be done.

Doing this with Charge or Charge + Pounce is the tricky part... Pounce gives you a full attack at the end of the charge, so you get all your iterative attacks... and any of those can be a thrown attack if you like, or you can TWF, or add a Rapid Shot attack. But that means you're probably standing next to your target, so you're provoking an AoO on any ranged attack.

The easiest way to do this is with Quickdraw, Travel Devotion, and Rapid Shot. At the start of the round, she declares a full attack. She then takes her Rapid Shot, drawing a dagger and throwing it, -2 penalty to all her attacks. She then spends a swift action (Travel Devotion) to move up to her speed. The she takes her full attack.

There are several magic items that allow her to move as a swift action: Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (500 GP), Anklet of Translocation (1400 GP), and Quicksilver Boots (3500 GP).

Least Crystals of Return (300 GP) on all her daggers will allow her to skip taking Quickdraw, so long as they are at least masterwork daggers.

Another option might be an item that allows her to cast cloud of knives. A 1/day 2nd level spell only costs 2160 GP. A +1 dagger with cloud of knives 1/day would cost 4460 GP. That would give her three rounds of throwing a dagger as a free action.

To avoid AoOs on ranged attacks, try the Elusive Dance feat from Dragon #333. Requires 5 ranks in Perform (Dance), but lets you select a target that can't get any AoOs on you, no matter what you do. Then she could pounce an opponent, and throw daggers while standing next to him all day without worrying about AoOs.

[Ernir]

Hmm. One rather silly way to go about this would be to point out that full attacks don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity, even if the full attack in question is a ranged attack...

[MeeposFire]

Time Stands Still+Raging Mongoose+Pounce=Full round attack+charge+fullround attack (with 4 extra attacks.).

This does not work anyway as charging is a full round action and time stand still gives you two full round attack actions not full round actions. You would need quicksilver to move but without my book I do not know if it will work since I recall a stipulation on the timing of the attacks but that part I am unsure.

[Scarlet-Devil]

The psychic warrior power Hustle gives an extra move action, celerity spells give extra actions... I'd say Swiftblade or a psionic variant might be her best bet, with it's 9th level ability. One way to do it, using the extra standard gained by the 9th level swiftblade while hasted, would be to throw the dagger (standard, assuming either quick draw or already drawn dagger), use hustle or a similar ability to gain an extra move action to approach enemy, drawing out swords in the process, then use a full attack action.

[Eldariel]

As long as you have means to move during attack and multiple attacks, it's no problem. Swift action movement might or might not be fine; easiest way is definitely getting to 20' adjustment though (requires +39 Tumble and Press the Advantage-stance from White Raven). That way you can start your attack with thrown/ranged weapons at 20' range and adjust yourself to melee range to deliver the rest of your attacks.

A level 12 vanilla Warblade could do this with sufficiently buffed Tumble to take 10' steps (they can pick up Press the Advantage). There's also Sudden Leap which allows for swift action movement along with Quicksilver Motion on level 13, but for that kind of a movement they wouldn't even be necessary.

[yugi24862]

The Dervish from Complete Warrior can dervish dance, which allows you to make a full attack and move your speed in the same turn, as long as you move atleast 5ft between every attack. Have at look at a 3Swashbuckler/2fighter/7Dervish build which should allow you to do everytime you need, and the Dervish Handbook

[Endarire]

A Belt of Battle (Magic Item Compendium 73) costs 12,000G but would let her do this once per day.

An Eager weapon (+1, Magic Item Compendium 34) can be drawn as a free action.

Items That Grant Feats can help with Quick Draw and perhaps others.

[Eldariel]

A Belt of Battle (Magic Item Compendium 73) costs 12,000G but would let her do this once per day.

An Eager weapon (+1, Magic Item Compendium 34) can be drawn as a free action.

Items That Grant Feats can help with Quick Draw and perhaps others.

It's worth noting that Quick Draw is also a Warblade-bonus feat and given the list, it's not really much of an opportunity cost to pick it up that way.

[Salbazier]

Hmm. One rather silly way to go about this would be to point out that full attacks don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity, even if the full attack in question is a ranged attack...

Huh, what?

[Ernir]

Huh, what?

As I said, it's silly. The "actions in combat" tables list "ranged attacks" as an action that provokes attacks of opportunity. They then go on to list "full attacks" as something that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

It requires squinting at the rules, but it's there, by my reading.

This, of course, is an obvious example of a rules glitch. One which is houseruled away all the time without even being recognized as such.

Using stuff like this is the reason we have the word "RAWtard", I'm guessing.
But hey, if it helps enable a mechanically difficult concept...

[Curmudgeon]

If she has Rapid Shot, she gets one extra ranged attack per round, even if she's already using all her full-round attacks as melee attacks.

Sorry, but that's not allowed if you're implying that the ranged shot can come after a full round of melee attacks. It works fine in the "throw first" scenario, though.

You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a -2 penalty.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest.

Edit: If a 10' adjustment is enough to let you "wade in", there are several ways to turn a 5' step into a 10' adjustment. A DC 40 Tumble check, or a Monk trained with a Sparring Dummy of the Master, are a couple of those ways. They won't let you draw a weapon on the way, though; that's limited to regular moves.

[randomhero00]

What she wants to do sounds reasonable. Just homebrew a feat for it. And then apply some above RAW suggestions.

[term1nally s1ck]

Bloodstorm blade and Dervish would let you throw your sword at a guy, then dance in and full-attack.

You can use swift and free actions mid-full attack, so you can use a swift action maneuver like sudden leap to move after the first one is a throw, and you can switch weapons if you have quick-draw.

[Eldariel]

Edit: If a 10' adjustment is enough to let you "wade in", there are several ways to turn a 5' step into a 10' adjustment. A DC 40 Tumble check, or a Monk trained with a Sparring Dummy of the Master, are a couple of those ways. They won't let you draw a weapon on the way, though; that's limited to regular moves.

Combine those with Press the Advantage-stance for 20' adjustment.