One Man Army

[Feight]

I'm looking for help with a build and you folks seem both knowledgeable and helpful. I originally had an idea for a black ops sort of rogue that used magical gadgets to assist him in his "ops". The idea has since transformed into a mercenary that fancies himself as a one man mercenary group and endeavors to create his own merc army.

The premise is a rogue-type character with summoning magic. The best options I've seen so far are rogue/mage/arcane trickster but I'm not adverse to psionics, whichever would best help the goal. Mind control isn't out either but he needs to be able to create or summon help without relying exclusively on mind control but it can be an ace in the hole.

I should probably point out the restrictions. It's for a Pathfinder game and I'm new to Pathfinder and mostly new to 3.5. The restrictions are WOTC 3.5 or Paizo official books but my DM might be open to a book by an outside company if it's reasonable (not broken).

[Bakkan]

For this concept I would definitely go Factotum from Dungeonscape. He gets all skills as class skils, basically gets Int to everything, he can do anything, including sneak attack and healing, and he can use a certain number of spell-like abilities, which he can change every day, drawn from the Sor/Wiz spell list. So just pick up one or two spells in the Summon Monster line and enjoy the awesomeness that is the Factotum.

[Ernir]

Alternatively (or not!), Chameleon. From Races of Destiny.

Artificer would work rather well in a 3.5 game (it's one of those damned classes that can do anything), but unless you and your DM are ready to pathfinderize it...

[ritztastic]

Rather odd, but you could pull Human Factotum 1 (For all skills you want; Take Able Learner) / Focused Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 (I think) / Malconvoker 5 / Whatever.

Take alternate class features that enhance summoning, ie Rapid/Enhanced Summoning. Summon two Fiendish Dire Tigers to maul your enemies. Summon two Chain Demons to beat your enemies. Summon two... you get the picture.

Malconvoker can be amazing.

[Feight]

I appreciate the responses and I'm investigating them, but the Factotum by itself does not seem to fit with the character concept. I expect him to be able to cast (and backstab) much more frequently than would be possible with the factotum by itself.

One of the reasons for the build is the ability to create creatures to assist flanking and to provide "mercenaries" for the character concept. I'll do some more research into these suggestions when I get to work. I don't expect to be busy today and I have access to the forums.

EDIT: Also it appears the factotum has not been "pathfinderized" and so is unlikely to be allowed.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I know this is a bit off, but you might look into Dread Commando from Heroes of Battle.

[Feight]

I know this is a bit off, but you might look into Dread Commando from Heroes of Battle.

For the original concept? I found that, made me feel a little less creative although I contend that I've had the idea for a while :P. Anyway, although it appears to be a good book for the original concept the concept has evolved and no longer matches.

Thank you very much for the suggestion and I'll likely use that material eventually but not likely for this particular character.

[Yora]

What exactly do you want the character to do?

All you really pinned down is that he hires out his services, wants to hire additional employees to his one person company, and he summons creatures.
What kinds of services does he offer and what tactics do you want him to use?

[Urpriest]

Frankly, a standard rogue/wizard build would be fine for this. Rogue or Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 is the typical path. Spellthief is useful with the right interpretation of Master Spellthief, otherwise you'll want Practiced Spellcaster at some point. Unseen Seer is from Complete Mage.

[Yora]

Frankly, a standard rogue/wizard build would be fine for this. Rogue or Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 is the typical path.

I say Rogue 9/Wizard 11.

[gorfnab]

Trapfinding Mystic Ranger with the feat Sword of the Arcane Order. Something like Mystic Ranger 12/ Swordsage 2/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6. This would get you a covert ops feel with spellcasting, pouncing, sneak attack, and death attack.

[Slipperychicken]

Not sure if this helps, but if you want to feel like you're running a mercenary company, take Leadership. Several hundred mooks never hurt anyone... except your enemies of course

[Tvtyrant]

You could always go Spellthief/Chameleon for lots of alternating special abilities. Or go straight Beguiler if you really like casting rogues. MMMM, Beguiler.

[Feight]

Frankly, a standard rogue/wizard build would be fine for this. Rogue or Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 is the typical path. Spellthief is useful with the right interpretation of Master Spellthief, otherwise you'll want Practiced Spellcaster at some point. Unseen Seer is from Complete Mage.

The problem with Unseen Seer is the negatives to non-divination spells as well as the lower sneak attack progression (I know, it's only one die but still).

To elaborate on my concept. The character is pretty much 90% Rogue/ 90% caster. I may look into summoning-specific classes but although he plans to specialize he enjoys the tactical advantage of having other spells to buff himself and his summons. My main build focus is, in order: combat effectiveness (backstab and probably feats/abilities to improve the use/frequency of it), summoning, other spells, and finally skills.

The reasoning is that he is quite capable on his own but never likes to be. He enjoys having creatures at his command both for their individual benefit and for their strategical advantage. He wants to have his own mercenary army but in the meantime he decided: "why wait, I'll create my own."

I can't really think of anything else I can provide that would be helpful. I haven't fleshed out the character's background too much but the background is secondary to the mechanics anyway.

[Urpriest]

The problem with Unseen Seer is the negatives to non-divination spells as well as the lower sneak attack progression (I know, it's only one die but still).

To elaborate on my concept. The character is pretty much 90% Rogue/ 90% caster. I may look into summoning-specific classes but although he plans to specialize he enjoys the tactical advantage of having other spells to buff himself and his summons. My main build focus is, in order: combat effectiveness (backstab and probably feats/abilities to improve the use/frequency of it), summoning, other spells, and finally skills.

The reasoning is that he is quite capable on his own but never likes to be. He enjoys having creatures at his command both for their individual benefit and for their strategical advantage. He wants to have his own mercenary army but in the meantime he decided: "why wait, I'll create my own."

I can't really think of anything else I can provide that would be helpful. I haven't fleshed out the character's background too much but the background is secondary to the mechanics anyway.

The caster level penalty is fully negated by Practiced Spellcaster, as well as by certain interpretations of Master Spellthief. Sure it takes a feat, but think of it as a feat that gives you full sneak attack progression (plus Hunter's Eye for more, Persisted when you can). You've got room for a feat like that.

[Hanuman]

Well, my fav approach is construct or undead army, which is wizard.

For living armies, Bard, Marshal or Imagist work well.
Bard rocks, Imagist gets leadership and an extra cohort for free, and marshal has the flavor.

[Feight]

The caster level penalty is fully negated by Practiced Spellcaster, as well as by certain interpretations of Master Spellthief. Sure it takes a feat, but think of it as a feat that gives you full sneak attack progression (plus Hunter's Eye for more, Persisted when you can). You've got room for a feat like that.

Hmm, I'll take your word for it and look into it. As I said I have little knowledge of 3.5 or Pathfinder so I don't know all the tricks. Thank you for the suggestion and the explanation, you've given me something to think about.

You could always go Spellthief/Chameleon for lots of alternating special abilities. Or go straight Beguiler if you really like casting rogues. MMMM, Beguiler.

Perhaps there is something I'm missing about this build as well. I know little of Spellthief or Chameleon beyond a cursory read but both seem like they have a very specific focus that doesn't fit the dual nature of my concept.

Spellthief provides few [b]true[b] caster levels and appears to mostly rely upon other spellcasters for powerful spells. And while chameleon on paper provides everything useful about all the classes, it effectively gives class abilities the negative aspects of spell preparation. I have to know what I'm going to need and have a very limited amount of it.

Well, my fav approach is construct or undead army, which is wizard.

For living armies, Bard, Marshal or Imagist work well.
Bard rocks, Imagist gets leadership and an extra cohort for free, and marshal has the flavor.

An undead army is an interesting concept, but doesn't quite fit the flavor of the character I'm trying to build. I know I'm sacrificing some of the power of a true mage for the concept but I'm trying to sacrifice as little as possible while still maintaining a concept I find interesting and believe will be fun for me to play.

Sorry for the multiple edits, I'm trying to respond to posts without artificially increasing my post count.

[Tvtyrant]

Mate, the only way to do everything at once is to play a Cleric (or maybe Warlock/DFA). Actually a Dragon Fire Adept does the "being the whole army" thing pretty well. Breathes fire, casts, high con and dex for a rapier or bow, you could give it a heavy shield and have it drop it when it needs to cast to deal with ASF. Its not really sneaky, but you can cross class them or take Able Learner.

[Gabe the Bard]

If you're interested in hiring help as well as summoning it, perhaps you can look into the planar binding spells. Malconvoker and Nar Demonbinder could both be good options for this.

For summoning help instantaneously, Summon Monster spells take 1 round to cast, unless you have the Rapid Spell feat. You could use Shadow Conjuration as a faster alternative. Though it will be less powerful, it could help make your character more flexible, since you'll be able to cast other conjuration spells with it. And conjuring monsters made from the shadows could fit with your rogue concept.

[Feight]

Mate, the only way to do everything at once is to play a Cleric (or maybe Warlock/DFA). Actually a Dragon Fire Adept does the "being the whole army" thing pretty well. Breathes fire, casts, high con and dex for a rapier or bow, you could give it a heavy shield and have it drop it when it needs to cast to deal with ASF. Its not really sneaky, but you can cross class them or take Able Learner.

Not trying to do everything; primarily sneak attack and summoning magic. Don't care much about healing, traps, blast spells, etc, just sneak attack and summoning and feats/traits/abilities that benefit both of those. Anything after sneak attack and summoning is icing.

If you're interested in hiring help as well as summoning it, perhaps you can look into the planar binding spells. Malconvoker and Nar Demonbinder could both be good options for this.

For summoning help instantaneously, Summon Monster spells take 1 round to cast, unless you have the Rapid Spell feat. You could use Shadow Conjuration as a faster alternative. Though it will be less powerful, it could help make your character more flexible, since you'll be able to cast other conjuration spells with it. And conjuring monsters made from the shadows could fit with your rogue concept.

Appreciate the suggestions, I'll look into them.

[Tvtyrant]

Or you could go Binder from ToM and use the sneak attack and summoning vestiges :D If you simply take it to where you can use two vestiges at the same time you can probably then multiclass into a casting sneak attacker, which would then stack with the vestiges.

[Feight]

Sorry for not responding for a bit there.

Anyway we played our first game tonight but we didn't get much accomplished besides bringing my character into the story. I ultimately decided to go Unseen Seer and my DM house-ruled a slightly easier requirements for US using the "skill requirements -3" template for Pathfinder using 3.5 PrCs.

So, we never got around to combat which is probably good since I never finished choosing feats and spells. I took a level of Spell Thief, 2 of Wizard and 1 of Unseen Seer. I'm also an elf so I don't get the bonus feat or skill points.

I've already taken the Master Spell Thief feat and I'm doing the "standard action" summoning alternative for Wizards as well as the Fighter Feats alternative. Any suggestions for someone that plans to focus as much as possible on the thiefly aspects of the character? For instance, feats that provide ways to more effectively fight creatures immune to SA.

[ajkkjjk52]

Malconvoker seems fairly well suited to this, it buffs summoning and allows you to either bluff them (rogue-like) or bribe them at higher levels with planar binding, which sounds pretty mercenary to me.

[Urpriest]

I've already taken the Master Spell Thief feat and I'm doing the "standard action" summoning alternative for Wizards as well as the Fighter Feats alternative. Any suggestions for someone that plans to focus as much as possible on the thiefly aspects of the character? For instance, feats that provide ways to more effectively fight creatures immune to SA.

I don't know about feats that could do that for you, but there are spells in the Spell Compendium (Grave Strike, Vine Strike) that you can grab with the Unseen Seer's ability to learn other class's divination spells that allow you to sneak attack certain things that are otherwise immune.

Regarding feats, Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) is a good one to get eventually, it lets you hide from things with Blindsight and similar senses. You'll also want Extend Spell at some point so you can get Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane) for things like Hunter's Eye. Since you like summoning, Augment Summoning is usually worthwhile, though Cloudy Conjuration (Complete Mage) may be more interesting given your character's style.

[Escheton]

*tiptoes in and whispers: thrallherd, then vanishes*

[faceroll]

Artificer as a base class or effigy master as a prc would have let you construct your own army. Effigy master lets you put templates on your creations for free, so you could make paragon supernatural goblins and only pay for 1 HD of creature. Not that I advocate that level of abuse.

Artificer would have let you do everything else. Who needs sneak attack when you can blast for over 9000 damage?

[Rasman]

Alternatively (or not!), Chameleon. From Races of Destiny.

Artificer would work rather well in a 3.5 game (it's one of those damned classes that can do anything), but unless you and your DM are ready to pathfinderize it...

Artificer isn't a bad choice, but they can't do much on the fly. And there actually is a Pathfinder Artificer base class on the SRD, it's just not from Paizo, but it's basically the 3.5 version converted for you.

I'd look at Beguiler or a Sorcerer of some type. My build for something like this was actually...

Spellthief1/Sorcerer4/Unseen Seer2/Spellwarp Sniper5/Arcane Trickster8

or something along those lines, Spellthief might be in line with what you want and you can always get the Summon Monster spells form Sorcerer, even though with this particular build, you don't really need it.

[dobu]

spellthief 1/wizard 4/Assassin 1/Unseen Seer /Ultimate magus

that was a build I came up for a 3.5 campaign some time time ago. Unfortunately they took the spellcasting from assassin in PF and this build is invalid in PF. Maybe you could ask your DM...?

[Feight]

Artificer isn't a bad choice, but they can't do much on the fly. And there actually is a Pathfinder Artificer base class on the SRD, it's just not from Paizo, but it's basically the 3.5 version converted for you.

I'd look at Beguiler or a Sorcerer of some type. My build for something like this was actually...

Spellthief1/Sorcerer4/Unseen Seer2/Spellwarp Sniper5/Arcane Trickster8

or something along those lines, Spellthief might be in line with what you want and you can always get the Summon Monster spells form Sorcerer, even though with this particular build, you don't really need it.

Why sorcerer, if I might ask?

I was looking at sorcerer, and I enjoy the flavor more (and definitely enjoy the idea of blood heritage feats because it would solve my SA problem) but I was really trying to get the standard action for summoning from specialized conjuration wizard (Unearthed Arcana) so I wouldn't have to wait a full round to cast summoning spells.

Also I was thinking of eventually grabbing a level of lurk, soulblade or psychic warrior to get the psionic spell thief feat since there is psionics in the game we're playing.

[Rasman]

Why sorcerer, if I might ask?

I was looking at sorcerer, and I enjoy the flavor more (and definitely enjoy the idea of blood heritage feats because it would solve my SA problem) but I was really trying to get the standard action for summoning from specialized conjuration wizard (Unearthed Arcana) so I wouldn't have to wait a full round to cast summoning spells.

Also I was thinking of eventually grabbing a level of lurk, soulblade or psychic warrior to get the psionic spell thief feat since there is psionics in the game we're playing.

it's partly preference really and not having to prepare spells make the versatility easier...you can really do either, I just prefer the Sorc for this build