Ways to make someone attack you (3.PF)

[WarKitty]

What ways are there to make someone attack you, as opposed to going past you and attacking someone else? Presume the terrain is such that they can go around you without provoking an AoO. Targeting this at a primary melee character.

All 3.5 and PF sources allowed, am willing to listen to homebrew as well.

[Psyren]

Try Intimidate

[WarKitty]

Try Intimidate

Is there a way to make that work practically?

Edit: Since Psyren has shown up, I ought to add in that the PC's do not have access to psionics. Re-writing psionics abilities as magic is allowed within reason.

[Kansaschaser]

There are some Knight abilities that make them focus on you. Also, I think the Crusader from the Tome of Battle might have some abilities/maneuvers that can do the same thing.

[BenInHB]

The Feat Goad from Complete Adventurer should help

[Draz74]

There are some Knight abilities that make them focus on you. Also, I think the Crusader from the Tome of Battle might have some abilities/maneuvers that can do the same thing.

Mostly the Iron Guard's Glare stance, which gives a -4 attack penalty to anyone you threaten if they attack your allies (instead of you).

[WarKitty]

Mostly the Iron Guard's Glare stance, which gives a -4 attack penalty to anyone you threaten if they attack your allies (instead of you).

That sounds pretty bad, actually. It would force your allies to be fairly close to you.

Actually, is there a way to work using intimidate into this? It's one of the trademarks of the character in mind that he uses intimidate for *everything*.

[Psyren]

I was largely being facetious, though I'm gratified that my arrival and psionics are linked

In seriousness though, Goad seems like what you want. You could tweak the Will save to be based on his ranks in Intimidate instead of his Cha modifier if you really want Intimidate to play a part.

[mangosta71]

Roleplay. Seriously, is the raging barbarian more likely to attack the guy in the back casting spells, or the guy that's right in front of him hurling epithets at his mother?

[WarKitty]

I was largely being facetious, though I'm gratified that my arrival and psionics are linked

In seriousness though, Goad seems like what you want. You could tweak to Will save to be based on his ranks in Intimidate instead of his Cha modifier if you really want Intimidate to play a part.

Not bad. I'm looking for little treats to give out to my PC's before we start campaign chapter 2- each character gets one special bonus that is tailored to them.

@mangosta71: Given that they're facing reasonably intelligent enemies? It's quite likely that they'll realize that the caster in the back is far more dangerous than the fighter up front, and act accordingly. I'm giving them liches and assassins and dragons as enemies.

[Pechvarry]

And the Defensive Rebuke boost (for one turn, attacking allies instead of you provokes AoOs).

I really like "tanking the GM" instead of the monster. By this, I mean the way Defensive Rebuke basically tells the GM that his monsters are in trouble unless they hit your dude instead of them. Though to really compete with charging barbarians and such, you'd need like... Smite bonuses on those AoOs. Alas, imbalanced party roles.

I like the idea of using Intimidate checks to uh... be more intimidating. I.e. seem like a bigger threat than you are.

[Amphetryon]

I have a homebrew for that, actually:

I'd love to have it playtested.

Entering as a Knight or Totemist should be fairly trivial if BoED is available.

[Asheram]

A Suggestion or Dominate would do very well here if you're wanting to make it a duel or make it look like an enemy attacked you first in order to... shishkebab him.

[WarKitty]

And the Defensive Rebuke boost (for one turn, attacking allies instead of you provokes AoOs).

I really like "tanking the GM" instead of the monster. By this, I mean the way Defensive Rebuke basically tells the GM that his monsters are in trouble unless they hit your dude instead of them. Though to really compete with charging barbarians and such, you'd need like... Smite bonuses on those AoOs. Alas, imbalanced party roles.

I like the idea of using Intimidate checks to uh... be more intimidating. I.e. seem like a bigger threat than you are.

Actually, I am the GM. Thinking up little fun treats for my PC's. This particular character enjoys using intimidate and is very protective of his wife, who is a ranged gish striker.

A Suggestion or Dominate would do very well here if you're wanting to make it a duel or make it look like an enemy attacked you first in order to... shishkebab him.

More the how to make the enemy focus on the tough barbarian and not the squishy caster churning out SoD's in the background...

[AslanCross]

Knight and Goad are probably the only two RAW ways to do it.

[Draz74]

That sounds pretty bad, actually. It would force your allies to be fairly close to you.

Depends how much you cheese up your Reach.

But yes, it's intended to be a short-range effect.

[Saph]

What ways are there to make someone attack you, as opposed to going past you and attacking someone else? Presume the terrain is such that they can go around you without provoking an AoO.

The most effective way to do it is generally to position yourself so that they CAN'T go around you without provoking an AoO. If you also boost up your offensive power enough that enemies who ignoring you and provoke AoOs will get seriously hurt, you shouldn't have much problem getting their attention.

IMO mechanical aggro effects like Knight abilities and Goad are usually not worth using, since they require the target to fail a (usually low) save. If you can get the enemy to fail a save, why not make them fail a save against something that'll actually take them out of the fight? Forcing an enemy to take a particular action is generally the province of mind-control, and if you can mind-control enemies you should be able to think of better commands than "attack me". If you want to encourage enemies to attack a PC, make it tactically necessary for them to attack him.

[Psyren]

The most effective way to do it is generally to position yourself so that they CAN'T go around you without provoking an AoO. If you also boost up your offensive power enough that enemies who ignoring you and provoke AoOs will get seriously hurt, you shouldn't have much problem getting their attention.

IMO mechanical aggro effects like Knight abilities and Goad are usually not worth using, since they require the target to fail a (usually low) save. If you can get the enemy to fail a save, why not make them fail a save against something that'll actually take them out of the fight? Forcing an enemy to take a particular action is generally the province of mind-control, and if you can mind-control enemies you should be able to think of better commands than "attack me". If you want to encourage enemies to attack a PC, make it tactically necessary for them to attack him.

This is why I suggested the Will save be tweaked for the player's Intimidate ranks rather than their Charisma score. It becomes harder to beat (since it's easier to raise skill ranks than ability scores) but because the effect is so narrow ("attack me" rather than a more general compulsion or charm effect) it would remain balanced.

[WarKitty]

The most effective way to do it is generally to position yourself so that they CAN'T go around you without provoking an AoO. If you also boost up your offensive power enough that enemies who ignoring you and provoke AoOs will get seriously hurt, you shouldn't have much problem getting their attention.

IMO mechanical aggro effects like Knight abilities and Goad are usually not worth using, since they require the target to fail a (usually low) save. If you can get the enemy to fail a save, why not make them fail a save against something that'll actually take them out of the fight? Forcing an enemy to take a particular action is generally the province of mind-control, and if you can mind-control enemies you should be able to think of better commands than "attack me". If you want to encourage enemies to attack a PC, make it tactically necessary for them to attack him.

I'm not giving them all dungeons with narrow corridors where people can't just go around. Probably not even that many. And we're well out of the level where taking out the melee dude is ever a better idea than taking out the caster. Just trying to get something nice for my fighter.

[ArcanistSupreme]

How big are the battlefields you're using? What kind of terrain are they composed of? An enlarged Crusader with a reach weapon and armor spikes threatens a lot of space. Even if the battlefields are enormous, remember that you can still tweak the terrain to make combat more interesting. Don't be afraid to throw in some minor obstacles that force players to move through dangerous squares.

[WarKitty]

How big are the battlefields you're using? What kind of terrain are they composed of? An enlarged Crusader with a reach weapon and armor spikes threatens a lot of space. Even if the battlefields are enormous, remember that you can still tweak the terrain to make combat more interesting. Don't be afraid to throw in some minor obstacles that force players to move through dangerous squares.

Well it depends on where they go, but the battles are primarily in outdoor settings. Woods, open snow-field, etc. Most of the battle maps are theoretically infinite, plus a lot of enemies can fly or burrow or even abrupt jaunt.

[Psyren]

Well it depends on where they go, but the battles are primarily in outdoor settings. Woods, open snow-field, etc. Most of the battle maps are theoretically infinite, plus a lot of enemies can fly or burrow or even abrupt jaunt.

Sounds to me like your casters are better off incorporeal - or gishes. Aggro-drawing isn't going to be enough to snare enemies that can do all that.

[WarKitty]

Sounds to me like your casters are better off incorporeal - or gishes. Aggro-drawing isn't going to be enough to snare enemies that can do all that.

We have a scout, a rogue, a bard, and a sorc. The sorc is a blaster. I don't think anyone in the party can go incorporeal. Trying to ramp things up so they start using a strategy other than "focus fire and blast it until it dies" and have to actually use tactics. Everyone's getting bored with yet another big dumb brute to kill.

Mind, other than the sorc they can take a hit or two, they're just not good at it.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Well it depends on where they go, but the battles are primarily in outdoor settings. Woods, open snow-field, etc. Most of the battle maps are theoretically infinite, plus a lot of enemies can fly or burrow or even abrupt jaunt.

Hmm. I guess you could throw in some terrain that can't be burrowed through (solid rock, for instance), trees that can't be flown through, sprinkle in some obstacles such as boulders and fallen trees, and apply liberal amounts of difficult terrain (underbrush, loose rock, sand, ice, etc.). As the DM, you can set up choke points with some careful planning for either you or the players to exploit.

[Saph]

I'm not giving them all dungeons with narrow corridors where people can't just go around. And we're well out of the level where taking out the melee dude is ever a better idea than taking out the caster. Just trying to get something nice for my fighter.

First, you don't need narrow corridors for a melee fighter to effectively control an area. Enlarge plus a reach weapon lets you control a 45' by 45' by 45' cube.

Second, if your melee character is really so useless in a fight that it's never worthwhile for the enemies to target him, then the real problem is that the character is poorly-built. A well-built melee character should be capable of being a threat to any "normal" monster all the way up to fairly high levels unless you're using heavily optimised monsters (which doesn't appear to be the case).

If your fighter character is too underpowered to stand up to the enemies he's facing, then forcing enemies to attack him will NOT help. It'll just get him killed repeatedly.

[WarKitty]

First, you don't need narrow corridors for a melee fighter to effectively control an area. Enlarge plus a reach weapon lets you control a 45' by 45' by 45' cube.

Second, if your melee character is really so useless in a fight that it's never worthwhile for the enemies to target him, then the real problem is that the character is poorly-built. A well-built melee character should be capable of being a threat to any "normal" monster all the way up to fairly high levels unless you're using heavily optimised monsters (which doesn't appear to be the case).

If your fighter character is too underpowered to stand up to the enemies he's facing, then forcing enemies to attack him will NOT help. It'll just get him killed repeatedly.

He is fairly well built. We're just at level 11 and on a rapid leveling system. We're rapidly getting high enough where HP damage isn't that relevant or most CR-appropriate enemies have ways of avoiding AoO's. I don't think any of the casters have enlarge person, plus my party finds it too silly to use.

[BrainFreeze]

The answer may be the casters in the party, by level 11 they have the ability to create choke points on the battle field that willl work well with the warrior.

Seriously if the players want him to be the "tank" they need to work with their spells inorder to make that happen. If this is through use of entangle, wall of force/fire/etc.. or other effects then so be it. A fighter with combat reflexes and improved trip can do well at controlling an area.

[Dimers]

Net, lasso, dancing weapon mancatcher ... bolas and tanglefoot bags have some of the same properties, but don't hold the enemies close to you. Maybe a Mortal Kombat Scorpion javelin or crossbow: *zzzzzzip*thwunk*draaaaaaaaag*. Having some obvious sign of being able to charge for hideous amounts of damage will make smart critters want to stay right next to you so that you can't activate your ability. Maybe a magical device with a constant telekinesis maneuver effect that bull-rushes one creature per turn toward the fighter: The Helm Of Come And Get Some.

[ArcanistSupreme]

He is fairly well built. We're just at level 11 and on a rapid leveling system. We're rapidly getting high enough where HP damage isn't that relevant or most CR-appropriate enemies have ways of avoiding AoO's. I don't think any of the casters have enlarge person, plus my party finds it too silly to use.

Enlarge person is silly?! The benefits are huge (or at least large ), and if you're avoiding the indoors for the majority of the time, I don't see any reason not to use it all the time. Maybe send an NPC with a potion of enlarge person against the party to demonstrate just how silly it is.

How are the enemies avoiding AoOs? With abilities or simply by going around/above/beneath the threatened space?

[WarKitty]

The answer may be the casters in the party, by level 11 they have the ability to create choke points on the battle field that willl work well with the warrior.

Seriously if the players want him to be the "tank" they need to work with their spells inorder to make that happen. If this is through use of entangle, wall of force/fire/etc.. or other effects then so be it. A fighter with combat reflexes and improved trip can do well at controlling an area.

I'm trying to make it so the melee has one or two capabilities on his own. None of us like using a lot of buff spells, and I don't think the fighter particularly wants to rely on the casters in order to be able to do his job.

@ArcanistSupreme: I meant they think it's silly roleplaying-wise. And a bit of both. I haven't entirely decided, I just know they're getting tired of hit/blast it until it dies battles.