Punishing Chaotic Stupid ?

[Barbin]

Firstly, context: I've run many small campaigns with three of my friends that will play D&D, but one of them always rolls a Chaotic Stupid character, and even when he is LN it won't change. It's horribly annoying !

So, Playground, what is the best In-Game way to punish him ?


EDIT: sneaky typo

[raisethearmy]

I would say something like having him in a situation that will punish his chaotic stupid action with extreme prejudice. For example, if the party is trying to win the allegiance of a cleric or something and he insults the clerics deity, then remove access to the ally.

Hope this helps.

[LOTRfan]

I know that this will not be very fun, but perhaps talk to him first?

[Xefas]

You're presumably all peers playing a game as a leisure activity. "Punishment" is both unnecessary and woefully condescending. Ask them to act more in accordance with the expectations of the rest of the group, or don't play with them anymore. It's as simple as that.

[Barbin]

@ raisethearmy: I'll surely use that, but on a level containing retibution

@ LOTRfan: I've talked to him many times, but still makes them.


He's really fun to play with, but his character's antics get so annoying.

[Greenish]

1. Change his alignment to Chaotic Stupid if he acts like that.
2. Have his actions (and everyone else's) carry appropriate consequences.

That should be enough.

[Ytaker]

What specifically is the guy doing that's horrible?

I'm trying to get a handle on how chaotic stupid he is.

[Claudius Maximus]

If this guy is just having trouble playing serious or reasonable characters, but you and your other players are open-minded, you could try to make the game more lighthearted and random, to better suit his playstyle. Make sure the other players are amenable to this idea though.

If he's acting like this and ruining a serious campaign, then he's being a jerk. Tell him his actions are having a negative effect on your and the other players' enjoyment of the game, preferably in a calm manner. If he persists in full knowledge of that fact then he's a double jerk, and you might be better off not including him in your game.

In game punishments, in the form of DM fiat to hurt his character as punitive action for the way the player is conducting things, is a bad idea. A slightly better alternative is to have the NPCs simply react in a realistic way to his shenanigans. So if he tries to kill the good king on sight for no reason he should be executed, because that's seriously what would most likely happen. You're still not getting at the root problem though, which is an out of game issue.

[Barbin]

@ Xefas: I used punishment a little harshly. What I mean by punishment is basicly giving his character a good kick in the pants.

I hope this clears it up.


@ Greenish

1. Did that once, we all had a good laugh !

2. I do that, but usally It justs wastes a session trying to get Y player out of
X city prison. :/

[Ernir]

Just... have the NPCs react to his silliness the way real people would.

Nevermind, been tried. Ninja'd hard.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Never Use In-Game Punishments for Out-Of-Game Problems

If you have a problem with a Player's play style, then talk to him about it. If he refuses to acknowledge that it is a problem, or you cannot find a mutually acceptable compromise, boot him from the game.

It's that simple. Trying to modulate his personal behavior by abusing your power as DM turns what should be a game into something wrong.

EDIT: And what exactly do you mean when you say "it's fun to play with him but I can't stand how he plays?"

[Salbazier]

Never Use In-Game Punishments for Out-Of-Game Problems

Haha, my first thought when I see this thread is to drop by and quote you but you already done that first.

On the topic, umm, I don't I have any input but perhaps you can elaborate more? What kind of behavior or personality your friend have?

Any reason why he is always play Chaotic stupid? Is he a real jerk or he just like to play randomly?

[Barbin]

Thanks for the enlightenment !

I'll try to respond later, I need some sleep after 36 hours awake.

/sleep

[Jack_Simth]

2. I do that, but usally It justs wastes a session trying to get Y player out of
X city prison. :/

(emphasis added)

So this has happened repeatedly?

Tell me, what happens in real life after someone repeatedly breaks laws serious enough to merit imprisonment, and then busts out of jail?

They get bounties put on their heads. It's been demonstrated that incarceration is not effective, so it'll be a "Wanted: Dead" bounty, rather than a "Wanted: Dead or Alive" bounty or a "Wanted: Alive" bounty.

He should start seeing wanted posters of himself up every time he goes to a tavern. The town guard should start recognizing him and attempting to arrest / subdue / kill him on sight. Merchants should stop doing business with him. And so on.

[Ytaker]

(emphasis added)

So this has happened repeatedly?

Tell me, what happens in real life after someone repeatedly breaks laws serious enough to merit imprisonment, and then busts out of jail?

They get bounties put on their heads. It's been demonstrated that incarceration is not effective, so it'll be a "Wanted: Dead" bounty, rather than a "Wanted: Dead or Alive" bounty or a "Wanted: Alive" bounty.

He should start seeing wanted posters of himself up every time he goes to a tavern. The town guard should start recognizing him and attempting to arrest / subdue / kill him on sight. Merchants should stop doing business with him. And so on.

That sounds like a great recipe for killing a campaign.

Do the other plays enjoy him? That's the big thing. If the other players aren't having fun, you can get them to hold him back. If you try to get revenge and they do like him it's more likely that they'll just resent you as a bad dm as they try to save him.

[Dr.Epic]

If his character is annoying in-game than have the NPCS react negatively to him in game. You could also tell him to stop acting stupid.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Haha, my first thought when I see this thread is to drop by and quote you but you already done that first.

I really should get a Word Document together with this stuff

FURTHER COMMENTARY

Spoiler

Show

Unfortunately, there really aren't that many different ways to handle Problem Players. Using in-game actions just makes things worse: it mixes problems you have IRL with what is supposed to be an entertaining fantasy game. It's like playing Diplomacy according to grudges you have IRL; don't be that guy.

This leaves reasoned discourse as the only out. Usually in these sorts of situations someone has already tried "talking to" the Problem Person and "nothing happened." At that point you have to ask yourself some serious questions:

(1) Is this Person's behavior substantially disruptive to the game?
Is it just annoying or unwelcome, or is it actually interfering with everyone else having a good time.

(2) If yes, then are you willing to kick them out?
If someone is making a game less fun, you should kick them out For The Greater Good. Plain and simple.

(3) If you hesitated on #2, why?
It's possible that you've been dithering with the issue for some reason. Perhaps you didn't actually sit down and have a serious conversation with the Problem Player; do that now. Or maybe there is some reason aside from "fun" for them being at the game.

Most Common Reasons
- They are the S.O. of a Player you want to keep
- They provide the space
- They provide transportation for one or more Good Players
- They are your friend

Once you've reached this phase, you can start asking yourself the serious questions. Space and transportation are logistical concerns that can be worked around - chances are if you thought hard enough about it, you can figure out an answer.

If they're your friend, then it could just be a matter of play-style mismatch. This happens more often than you'd think: I, for example, don't want to run the sort of breezy social affairs that one of my good friends enjoys playing in. She used to play my D&D games and become quite disruptive since she had little interest in either Dungeons or Dragons - she was just there to hang out. After having a frank talk, we agreed that while I don't feel comfortable running the sort of games she's interested in, we can still hang out normally - and if she ever gets a breezy social game together, I'd be more than happy to play in it.

[Gamer Girl]

It kind of depends what he is doing.

Type one-He is just being an idiot. He walks behind the king and gives him a wedgie. He steals things right in front of a guard. He kills people at random. And so forth.

Type two-He is playing a dumb chaotic character. Something like an orc barbarian. That type of character won't act well at the king's dinner table for example.


If it's number two, then he is just being his character and you should not hold that against him. You can take off the pressure a bit though. Instead of the white king's dinner table with six forks and spoons, send them to lord wild bunch's feast.


If he is a type one, talk to him. If he won't(or can't) listen, then you can always try to take off the pressure. Make the game a bit 'less hard on him'. And the ultimate fix is to ignore his stupid stuff and or prevent him from doing it with uber magic. The king has a personal force shield, for example, so he can't have his underwear pulled up.

[Fiery Diamond]

I get the impression from reading the OP's comments that it's something like this:

1) The guy is a good friend
2) The guy is fun to be around in general
3) The guy is an amusing individual with some of his in-game and at-the-table activities
4) The guy is of a competence level with rules and such that fits the game
5) The guy's presence makes it a 3 player, 1 DM game and there are not (or the other people are not interested in) replacement options
6) The guy consistently screws up the campaign, the roleplaying, and verisimilitude with Chaotic Stupid actions.

Things 1-5 mean that kicking him out is not in consideration. But thing 6 is so incredibly frustrating that the OP decided to come here and ask for some advice on ways to deal with it. Apparently talking to the guy has already been tried multiple times and has not worked, so the OP is trying to come up with an in-game solution.

[Cerlis]

better yet, have him get a real bounty (dead) on his head, and have the only (powerful) NPC that goes after him (can still have random mooks) a flamboyant Bard who has all non damage dealing spells and ends up cursing him with a spell that makes him smell like rotten fish everytime someone nearby gets mad at him.

He can randomly pop up with rosepetals flying, with annoying /facepalm comments and he will be inclined on only pissing off certian people cus no one likes a fish smelling person

[The Glyphstone]

Just to mix things up...don't punish him. Reward him - with a personal buddy. The forces of utter, pure Chaos have noticed how random he acts, and sent a Slaad to hang out with him as a 'friend'. No one but him can see the Slaad under any circumstances, and it harasses or bugs him constantly.

[Greenish]

Just to mix things up...don't punish him. Reward him - with a personal buddy. The forces of utter, pure Chaos have noticed how random he acts, and sent a Slaad to hang out with him as a 'friend'. No one but him can see the Slaad under any circumstances, and it harasses or bugs him constantly.

Ah right, good ol' "punishment by the invisible slaad". Always a great favourite.

[Tengu_temp]

If it's number two, then he is just being his character and you should not hold that against him. You can take off the pressure a bit though. Instead of the white king's dinner table with six forks and spoons, send them to lord wild bunch's feast.

If the player is being disruptive, then "I'm just roleplaying my character!" is not a valid excuse.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I get the impression from reading the OP's comments that it's something like this:

1) The guy is a good friend
2) The guy is fun to be around in general
3) The guy is an amusing individual with some of his in-game and at-the-table activities
4) The guy is of a competence level with rules and such that fits the game
5) The guy's presence makes it a 3 player, 1 DM game and there are not (or the other people are not interested in) replacement options
6) The guy consistently screws up the campaign, the roleplaying, and verisimilitude with Chaotic Stupid actions.

Things 1-5 mean that kicking him out is not in consideration. But thing 6 is so incredibly frustrating that the OP decided to come here and ask for some advice on ways to deal with it. Apparently talking to the guy has already been tried multiple times and has not worked, so the OP is trying to come up with an in-game solution.

That's fine, but there still isn't a way to solve this in-game.

Nobody "consistently screws up" campaigns accidentally; if he's screwing it up so often he has to know that he's doing it. I'd attribute it to Bored Gamer Syndrome - he likes gaming, but there's something about the way the DM runs campaigns that he doesn't like. Figure it out, and see if you can run a game that he won't feel compelled to explode.

If the DM can't, then he can't run a game with this guy in it. Ask the Problem Player to run the sort of game he'd like to play or find some new Players; he's not going to change the way he plays because you've made the game more annoying for him!

[klemdakherzbag]

hmm reminds me of a situation i encountered awhile back... guy was playing a chaotic stupid(actually CN or CE character) but seeing as how his characters action were disruptive to the-mostly good- group as a whole i needed to do something. Said player had expressed interest in playing a draconic-esque race so during the course of the game, after a series of failed Will saves while touching an stone orb he recieved a vision. Vision was from Apsu (father of good dragons, Pathfinder) and basically told him that "the power you seek resides within the dragon".

Later on the group met up with a white dragon wyrmling which said player after being in on the kill, promptly sliced open and ate a chunk of dragonflesh. Result? instant transformation from human to draconic template human with the caveat that his alignment must change to within one step of his new LG patron or his draconic template would be forfeit, possibly painfully so...Needless to say said character/player began acting not only smarter, but also better for the group as a whole

[Cerlis]

hmm reminds me of a situation i encountered awhile back... guy was playing a chaotic stupid(actually CN or CE character) but seeing as how his characters action were disruptive to the-mostly good- group as a whole i needed to do something. Said player had expressed interest in playing a draconic-esque race so during the course of the game, after a series of failed Will saves while touching an stone orb he recieved a vision. Vision was from Apsu (father of good dragons, Pathfinder) and basically told him that "the power you seek resides within the dragon".

Later on the group met up with a white dragon wyrmling which said player after being in on the kill, promptly sliced open and ate a chunk of dragonflesh. Result? instant transformation from human to draconic template human with the caveat that his alignment must change to within one step of his new LG patron or his draconic template would be forfeit, possibly painfully so...Needless to say said character/player began acting not only smarter, but also better for the group as a whole

true. Even Criminals can act like cops and cops like criminals. This person may not be as pliable as yours, but that sounds like a cool experience

[Aquillion]

That's fine, but there still isn't a way to solve this in-game.

Sure there is. If you're in-game, just use Sanctify the Wicked.

On the player.

[snoopy13a]

That sounds like a great recipe for killing a campaign.

Do the other plays enjoy him? That's the big thing. If the other players aren't having fun, you can get them to hold him back. If you try to get revenge and they do like him it's more likely that they'll just resent you as a bad dm as they try to save him.

First, you would tell the player that commiting serious crimes in public places with many witnesses will lead to authorities using overwhelming force to capture and execute his character. If the player still kills a NPC or something in public view then a posse made up of powerful NPCs (honestly, this is would the authorities would actually do) will confront the party and order the offending player to surrender.

Likely, the party will not risk their necks for the miscreant and the offending player either resists by himself and dies or is captured and hanged. He then has the option to reroll a new character and not act chaotic stupid.

[Ytaker]

First, you would tell the player that commiting serious crimes in public places with many witnesses will lead to authorities using overwhelming force to capture and execute his character. If the player still kills a NPC or something in public view then a posse made up of powerful NPCs (honestly, this is would the authorities would actually do) will confront the party and order the offending player to surrender.

Likely, the party will not risk their necks for the miscreant and the offending player either resists by himself and dies or is captured and hanged. He then has the option to reroll a new character and not act chaotic stupid.

You're relying on dnd players being cowards and refusing a fight? And if they don't refuse the fight, they all die? I can see some serious problems with that.

Yes, that would be an effective way to end a campaign.

[FelixG]

If he is acting stupid have NPCs look at him like he is brain damaged and condescend to him "Guess this fool has taken a few too many hammers to the head, I will deal with this character instead."

You could also make sure when he does something Chaotic stupid he is the one to get the fall and just remove the character. "Congrats, you were enough of a pest they pout you in an impenetrable epic level dimensional prison, roll up a character thats not as disruptive."