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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    For an arena style battle, I was wanting to make an epic "wrestler" style character, who uses entirely unarmed and grappling as combat attacks. I've heard that a fighter with the right feats/prestige classes is better at unarmed combat than a monk, and I would rather go that route if necessary. Only other things that I would ask is that the character be a dwarf (storyline purposes) and that he have items that give him a high spell resistance in addition to anything that would make him good at armed combat. Ideally I want him around level 25.

    Any tips or submissions for a "wrestler" would be most appreciated. Thanks guys. ^_^

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Is Epic Spellcasting allowed in this arena battle? What books are allowed? What are the conditions of the arena battle? Under what rules is it taking place? Can you buy basically whatever you want within your budget? What is your budget?

    Is there any particular reason you don't want to be Colossal or larger sized and polymorphed into something obscene for this arena fight? How much prebuffing are you allowed? If epic spells are in, is the "Spend a few days of the month, each month casting your epic buffs for the rest of the month" Sort of thing allowed?
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2011-01-04 at 07:36 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Right, you need to have one of the dispel focused builds or using spells to attack items builds (and then dispelling) to be capable of doing grappling in an arena fight.

    In other words, you need to be, you know, a particular full spellcaster, like all the other arena builds.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2011-01-04 at 07:41 PM.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Or the cleric simply outgrapples you when he turns collossal (using miracle to mimic giant size).

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...applers_Manual

    The black blood cultist is the cream of the crop as far as grappling builds go. If you can pick up a level of scaled horror (mostly dependant on if you want to be the reptilian subtype and if your GM allows SS material), all the better.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey McBannert View Post
    http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...applers_Manual

    The black blood cultist is the cream of the crop as far as grappling builds go. If you can pick up a level of scaled horror (mostly dependant on if you want to be the reptilian subtype and if your GM allows SS material), all the better.
    But this is utter crap at level 25, really. You are going to want to be a colossal archivist polymorphed into something obscene, maybe using the Body of War spell, with a few epic spell buffs up, after chain lightning on all of their items, and then using an epic spell to debuff them, and THEN you can, you know, attack them with grapples.

    http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...olossus_of_War

    Something like that, but made to be more powerful, updated with recent tricks, and not focusing on spiked chain, and with epic spellcasting.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2011-01-04 at 09:50 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    But this is utter crap at level 25, really. You are going to want to be a colossal archivist polymorphed into something obscene, maybe using the Body of War spell, with a few epic spell buffs up, after chain lightning on all of their items, and then using an epic spell to debuff them, and THEN you can, you know, attack them with grapples.
    But the OP didn't ask for an "artificer with epic spellcasting" build. The OP asked for a grappling build. The OP didn't specify something that would be as good as an epic spellcaster. The OP asked for a grappling build. The OP DID, however, specifically request a "wrestler" build.
    Last edited by TroubleBrewing; 2011-01-04 at 10:53 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Any official books are allowed, and the DM is pretty lenient about that sort of thing.

    Epic Spellcasting is allowed, and the budget is assumed to be high enough that he can get whatever he needs. If what he has is too high, than the DM will probably have a weaker version given to him instead. That's not a big deal. There are no particular rules against weapons for the arena, I just want unarmed combat to be his gimmick.
    Last edited by joe; 2011-01-04 at 11:26 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AtomicKitKat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    1. Ban Freedom of Movement.

    2. Ban spellcasting shenanigans.

    3. Grafts are not "spellcasting shenanigans".

    4. Avoid taking Reaping Mauler at all costs!

    5. Karmic Strike and some of the other stuff is also good(think there was an opponent throwing feat that was mistakenly left out of Oriental Adventures. Errata-ed online)

    6. Fling Enemy.

    7. Get as big as you can(Expansion power?). Again, not a spellcasting shenanigan.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Y'know who I'd recommend for this concept? Ultimo Tarrasco Junior.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by joe View Post
    Any official books are allowed, and the DM is pretty lenient about that sort of thing.

    Epic Spellcasting is allowed, and the budget is assumed to be high enough that he can get whatever he needs. If what he has is too high, than the DM will probably have a weaker version given to him instead. That's not a big deal. There are no particular rules against weapons for the arena, I just want unarmed combat to be his gimmick.
    If Epic Spellcasting is allowed, then, basically, to compete, you must be an Epic Spellcaster. Period!

    Remember, with enough helpers contributing spell slots, which you can HIRE at a pittance, you can get the DC's, the cost to create the spell, and the time to create the spell down to 0, even if the spellcraft DC is in the thousands -- which means you can spend a month stacking epic spells and contingent stuff that lasts a month, and goes off when you want, along with month lasting buffs and stuff, since you have to only be ready for ONE day's fight.

    And remember, his weapons are SPELLS... at this point, the only way you can win, at level 25, is SPELLS. So pick one of the full casters with a huge spell list that can do epic spells: that would be Druid, Cleric, Wizard, or Archivist. I don't think StP Erudites can do epic spells...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2011-01-05 at 01:49 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AtomicKitKat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    If Epic spells are in, then Grappling=waste of time. Unless you have some guy with a belt of "Project 50' radius AMF".
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKitKat View Post
    If Epic spells are in, then Grappling=waste of time. Unless you have some guy with a belt of "Project 50' radius AMF".
    You can be an epic spellcasting Grappler. It's not really hard, even. You can become a formidable grappler with spells, you can shut down Freedom of Movement and any such peskiness with Epic Wards, and you have spells to counter peoples' spells. Thing is, higher up magical offense becomes less and less reliable since magical defense is so good at negating magical offense (that is to say, offensive epic spells tend to be joketastic and epic wards + non-epic spells are really good at negating everything else).

    The optimal way to attack tends to be magically augmented physical attacks (full casters generally do this the best due to the fact that Divine Power gives you way higher BAB than anything else on the epic, and larger buff availability just makes you more powerful than a Gish). Sure, everyone can be immortal but those defenses are quite easy to unravel with a combination of epic magic and non-epic spells, and it tends to be really comparatively easy to deliver sufficiently lethal physical attacks as the ways to ward against them tend to be generic damage wards or attack wards, not specific anti-physical-damage wards. A level 50 Gestalt arena had an Unarmed Eternal Blade going undefeated; though of course he had 20th level spellcasting off all lists, and manifesting along with a good chunk of epic spells. I also recall a contestant that specifically used an Epic Ward against Freedom of Movement to initiate grapple for an automatically lethal check off Shapechange, I recall. Or Template.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    You won't be brawlin' anything unless you are a caster. No one yet has mentioned the initiative/celerity/timestop rocket tag which cannot be won by a fighter or whatever else you think makes a good wrestler. Be a caster or fail, it's your choice.

    I'm not even discussing Epic Spellcasting atm.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AtomicKitKat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Which is exactly why I posted above that you should probably exclude Spellcasting from the mix. Spellcasters already win D&D and do everything "better". Have the wrestling be all about a bunch of "lower beings" grappling one another for the Wizard-Emperor's amusement.
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    Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKitKat View Post
    Which is exactly why I posted above that you should probably exclude Spellcasting from the mix. Spellcasters already win D&D and do everything "better". Have the wrestling be all about a bunch of "lower beings" grappling one another for the Wizard-Emperor's amusement.
    He's making a character for an arena, not the rules...
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AtomicKitKat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    He's making a character for an arena, not the rules...
    As per the OP, he wanted a "wrestler type character". Spellcaster !=wrestler. Like I said, if you're going to put magic into it, there's no longer any point to wrestling or grappling.
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    Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
    Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
    Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKitKat View Post
    As per the OP, he wanted a "wrestler type character". Spellcaster !=wrestler. Like I said, if you're going to put magic into it, there's no longer any point to wrestling or grappling.
    How does it make you any less of a wrestler that you have a couple of dozen spell effects on you, which make you even better at wrestling? You'd imagine every wrestler would have that in a world with magic.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AtomicKitKat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    How does it make you any less of a wrestler that you have a couple of dozen spell effects on you, which make you even better at wrestling? You'd imagine every wrestler would have that in a world with magic.
    That's not really what's been suggested, is it? People are practically throwing spellcasters out there as the only choice.
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    Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
    Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
    Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Epic Level Brawler (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKitKat View Post
    That's not really what's been suggested, is it? People are practically throwing spellcasters out there as the only feasible choice.
    Fixed. Because a single spell can negate more than 20 lvs of hard-won grappling abilities.

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