Good Space RPG?

[RoninFrosty]

Hello all,

So I played a little of EVE Online, I love Star Wars, love Mass Effect, and recently watched through all of Firefly and Serenity. I've come to love the idea of an RPG in space, but my problem is that my group has really only played 3.5 D&D. I don't want to run myself, but I'd like to find a game system that isn't too far removed from D20, and is fairly easy to get into. Can anyone give any suggestions? I don't really know how to tell a decent RPG from the crap ;)

[RoninFrosty]

Aw, poop. My polar bear died :(

I'll fix my avatar eventually.

[Kuma Kode]

Well if you want d20, there's always d20 Future, an expansion for d20 Modern which I love, despite its sometimes glaring flaws. It's decent, so long as the DM has a good eye for balance and actually looks at the junk in the book.

It's designed for everything from hard sci-fi to soft sci-fi and everything in between, so allowing everything can cause a bit of a problem.

There's also a Serenity RPG based directly on Firefly, and a new one I've recently heard about called Eclipse Phase, but it might be a little too... techy... for some people's sci-fi.

[RoninFrosty]

Am I admitting a complete lack of nerd cred if I ask the difference between soft and hard sci-fi?

[Salbazier]

I expect to be swordsaged with better explanation, but hard SF sticks to the the known science & and feasible technology as much as possible. Soft SF, how to say it, have more far-fetched stuffs. Like say, FTL travel. eh, some sage can explain this better.

Anyway, what I want to say is thatthere is an RPG named Traveller, with many versions. I never give it more than cursory glance to be honest but it seems popular so you may want to check it. Of course there is The obvious Star Wars RPG, d20 (or was it d6, I actually forgot already) or the SAGA version.

[The Rose Dragon]

An important question: dedicated or generic? That is, do you want any game that can be played in space (as long as it is good, so probably no d20 Future ), or does it have to be specific to space-based games?

In the case of generic, there is Mutants & Masterminds, GURPS or All Flesh Must Be Eaten (which does not require zombies, though it is encouraged), all three of which I can highly suggest.

Otherwise, my knowledge is fairly limited. There is HELLAS, which I have but never read; Star Wars SAGA Edition, which I don't have; Star Wars d6 Edition, which I read but don't remember; various Warhammer 40000 RPGs, which I don't know anything about but have various players around; Traveller, which apparently can kill you during character generation; Starblazer Adventures, which is based on Fudge so is probably good enough; d6 Space, which is free; Trinity, which is based on Storyteller so it probably a hot mess; Eclipse Phase, which I don't know if it even has space-based rules; Spelljammer, which I'm not sure even counts...

Another question is how hard you want to be on the sliding scale of sci-fi hardness. Considering your inspirations are mostly soft (and including one which isn't even sci-fi), you should probably go for more space opera-based products.

[RoninFrosty]

OK, like I said, I personally want to play, not run, so maybe if I explain what I want to do in a space game this would help?

I want a ship. I want to shoot things with my ship. I would also like to make smart-ass comments whilst shooting things with my ship. I'd also be OK with sneaking aboot space stations or planetside with a gun.

And to clarify, TRD: which of my inspirations doesn't count as Sci Fi? Just curious, not arguing...

[The Rose Dragon]

And to clarify, TRD: which of my inspirations doesn't count as Sci Fi? Just curious, not arguing...

Star Wars.

[Kuma Kode]

An important question: dedicated or generic? That is, do you want any game that can be played in space (as long as it is good, so probably no d20 Future )

Admittedly, the starship combat rules in d20 Future are unforgivably terrible because they tried to make it as "easy to learn" as possible. Read: They made it the same as D&D character combat, with a 2-dimensional grid and omni-directional facing.

There is a reason I am reworking it from the ground up.

But yeah, where exactly do you want to be on the sci-fi hardness scale? Star Wars is ludicrously soft, with almost no concern for whether or not such things are even realistic or possible (single-terrain planets, anyone?) Mass effect is in-between, with softish stuff but at least a few hand-waves to realistic science and an attempt at internal consistency. Firefly is pretty hard (minus the artificial gravity), with realistic travel times, lack of laser weapons, and such.

[RoninFrosty]

Well honestly, Firefly is what finally made me say "I want to do this."

I, personally, would like a universe with a logical internal consistency. I'd like for the science and all to make sense... but if that interferes with me blowing stuff up with a space ship, I'm willing to let it go.

[Salbazier]

Star Wars.

Seems Sci-fi to me

[RoninFrosty]

Ooh, just read a much better description of what I'm looking for. Sci-fi schmi-fi; I want to play a SPACE OPERA :D

[The Rose Dragon]

It's Sci-fi

It's not. It's space fantasy. Except for being set in space, the movies have no consideration for the science part of science fiction whatsoever.

Ooh, just read a much better description of what I'm looking for. Sci-fi schmi-fi; I want to play a SPACE OPERA :D

Space Opera is sci-fi. Very soft sci-fi, to the point it almost stops being sci-fi, but it is sci-fi. Mass Effect is a great example of a space opera.

In which case, I suggest All Flesh Must Be Eaten + All Tomorrow's Zombies.

[hamishspence]

OK, like I said, I personally want to play, not run, so maybe if I explain what I want to do in a space game this would help?

I want a ship. I want to shoot things with my ship. I would also like to make smart-ass comments whilst shooting things with my ship. I'd also be OK with sneaking aboot space stations or planetside with a gun.

WH40K Rogue Trader might do- it has space combat (still 2-dimensional- for convenience) and plenty of room for roleplay as well.

Star Wars is sometimes called "Space Fantasy" thanks to "The Force" being awfully like magic (especially Sith Alchemy and Sith Sorcery).

But then, 40K is a lot like that too- a bit like a grimmer Star Wars where the Empire are one of the nicer factions- and all the rest are worse.

EDIT: Swordsaged on "space fantasy".

Might take a bit of work if you want to convert the rules to a more generic setting- but Rogue Trader might do for the "space opera" theme- a balance of diplomacy, trading, and shooting.

[RoninFrosty]

So yeah, space being 3D is something I'm willing to handwave away in the interest of blowing stuff up with a spaceship. I'm willing to assume we're all on the same horizontal plane and play in 2D :P

But yeah, I'll check out 40K... I think a friend of mine has the books so maybe I could convince him to run it.

[EccentricCircle]

on the subject of the slideing scale of Sci Fi Hardness check out this TV Tropes Page (Warning, Its a TV tropes Page...)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ictionHardness.

Sci Fi seems to be one of those generas which doesn't have a single monolithic game that is everyones first stop, in the way that D&D, World of Darkness of Call of Cthulhu are for fantasy, horror and wierdness respectively.
i've played both D20 Modern and Star Wars. and would recomend both. both systems are D20 games so while there are differences from D&D, in that the classes and options are different it is still fundamentally the same game. its worth noting that it is entirely possible to run star wars in a generic space opera setting by cutting out the jedi class.
in addition to that, if there is a system that you know well then a great many of them can be adapted to a sci fi setting relativley easily. i've played D&D in Space (as a reasonably hard Space opera, rather than as Spelljammer, although that is awesome as well) all you really have to do is add in the futuristic weapons from the DMG and maybe refluf or remove some of the magic calling it psychic powers, nanotech, or warpcraft.

good luck getting your campaign off the ground, and indeed into orbit

[hamishspence]

For less serious games, Star Munchkin D20 might be quite fun- parodies most of the space opera tropes.

[Salbazier]

It's not. It's space fantasy. Except for being set in space, the movies have no consideration for the science part of science fiction whatsoever.

Hmm, I always put stories with non-magical spaceships in SF category. The movies doesn't have science lecture or even scientific accuracy indeed, but I think read some stuffs somewhere (and pretty sure its official material) that explain stuffs like planets and fauna in more 'scientific' manner. At any rate, I actually don't care much with the movies.

[agentnone]

Well honestly, Firefly is what finally made me say "I want to do this."

There's actually a Firefly/Serenity RPG out there. I forget who by, and it's not d20, but I have the core book (I also want to say there's a few supplements out there somewhere) and it doesn't seem to confusing. Plus the book gives rules on both character combat and ship-to-ship combat, as well as a great deal of schematics and rules for the ships, the Serenity ship included. Google it. Or if you want to purchase it, check your local gaming store. If they don't have it, or can't get it, Amazon is a good place to look too. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this game yet. Considering where you got your inspiration from. lol But, at the same time, it's not d20. But it seems fairly easy and straight forward. I haven't played it myself yet, so I'm not entirely sure how the whole system functions. But give it a looksie and maybe it'll be just what you're looking for.

[Eldan]

Hmm, I always put stories with non-magical spaceships in SF category. The movies doesn't have science lecture or even scientific accuracy indeed, but I think read some stuffs somewhere (and pretty sure its official material) that explain stuffs like planets and fauna in more 'scientific' manner. At any rate, I actually don't care much with the movies.

It does perhaps get a little better outside of the movies (I don't know that stuff, really, but there's at least long tables of technical data floating around), but in the movies? Horrible. Sound in space. Spaceships that move as if there was air resistance and gravity. Lasers slow enough as to be visible (and visible from the side). Space magic. And so on. That makes them either the softest of soft SciFi or fantasy.

Anyway. You should probably try the Serentiy RPG, it's pretty good and not too complicated.

[hamishspence]

. Lasers slow enough as to be visible (and visible from the side).

These tend to get retconned later as "particle bolts"

[Eldan]

That's what I meant by extended universe: you can retcon almost anything back into something approaching science, if you try hard enough. I've also heard that the sound in space is actually simulated for the pilot's convenience, and that the way the X-wings move is due to strange effects from their drives, or something.

See also: "It's not magic, it's invisible remote-controlled nanobots influencing the space-time continuum via miniaturized quantum distortion generators!"

[Ranielle]

Dark Heresy.


Heh heh heh.

[hamishspence]

That's what I meant by extended universe: you can retcon almost anything back into something approaching science, if you try hard enough. I've also heard that the sound in space is actually simulated for the pilot's convenience, and that the way the X-wings move is due to strange effects from their drives, or something.

Even with the retconning- there can be some odd stuff.
Like tank guns, with supposedly "multi-gigaton yields" (tank-mounted versions of starship guns) leaving only small holes in spaceships- in Attack of the Clones, when the central modules of the Trade Federation carriers, are being shot down.

There's quite a few places where the interaction between Star Wars tech, and physics- can result in odd conclusions- pointed out in places like Irregular Webcomic.

Most notably- Coruscant- the whole idea of a functioning planet-wide city.

Dark Heresy.


Heh heh heh.

Rogue Trader (same rules- but much more focus on space battles, and trading) is probably a better bet.

[Kaje]

It's true, Star Wars is not science fiction. It is an epic fantasy with sci-fi trappings. Doesn't matter if it's got chainmail and longswords or spaceships and lasers, if it's fantasy, it's fantasy. Jedi are wizards, not just psionic swordsmen.

Note: This is not a bad thing. Star Wars is awesome fantasy.

[Salbazier]

Most notably- Coruscant- the whole idea of a functioning planet-wide city.

What exactly? Or do you have any links?

[king.com]

I would go with Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader and Im currently playing and enjoying Eclipse Phase (only got a couple of sessions and the universe itself is Eve Online meets Shadowrun).

Rogue Trader (same rules- but much more focus on space battles, and trading) is probably a better bet.

I disagree going straight into Rogue Trader, your starting much higher up the tree on what your players need to know about (though if they are WH40K fans it might not be an issue). Dark Heresy is much easier to control and slowly expose your players to different aspects of the universe which gives them the knowledge when they play Rogue Trader.

[Drakefall]

There's a lesser known game out there called Fading Suns, which I will coincedently be playing my first session of at the end of the week. In my mind it is the absolute perfect old-school space opera. It has a very similar feel to Frank Herbert's Dune, except it takes place over many galaxies as opposed to a single planet. Hell there's even Atreides and Harkonnen analogues.

The game is very fluff and roleplay orientated and... well, my words can't entirely give it justice. So here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fading_Suns

Unfortunately the system isn't the best. It isn't difficult, just somewhat unweildly. What it certainly isn't is d20, though you do use one. I have heard that a d20 rules conversion does exist somewhere, so if you like the look of the setting you could track that down.

[Knaight]

Ooh, just read a much better description of what I'm looking for. Sci-fi schmi-fi; I want to play a SPACE OPERA :D

I reccomend Fudge for this. Its a free system, generic while very good at space opera and fantasy. It is different from d20 in a few respects, but has some key similarities, it is a roll and add system for instance, and while there are no classes it is reasonably easy to whip up templates.

[hamishspence]

I disagree going straight into Rogue Trader, your starting much higher up the tree on what your players need to know about (though if they are WH40K fans it might not be an issue). Dark Heresy is much easier to control and slowly expose your players to different aspects of the universe which gives them the knowledge when they play Rogue Trader.

True- the main reason for Rogue Trader- is that the goal is to have a ship- and shoot things with it. Dark Heresy has no rules for ships.

I suppose it could be handwaved though.

Dark Heresy focusses far more on the Inquisition- the party are minor agents of an Inquisitor- whereas Rogue Trader is more about exploration on the fringes of the Imperium.