best system to mimic Star Wars

[Popertop]

All on the tin, what is the best system to use (i.e. at least somewhat balanced mechanically) that comes really close to mimicking Star Wars without having that label? (i.e. only fluff differences really)

[RandomNPC]

There's a D20 star wars, and I think a D6 that's starting to get older and harder to find.

without the ofical label, D20 Furure? Maybe tweak the Firefly game if you don't want d20?

[Kylarra]

What are you looking to get out of it?

[RandomLunatic]

WEG's d6 Space is their old d6 Star Wars system with the serials filed off, so I do not know if that counts.

MnM 2e and GURPS are both famous for their ability to be pressed into service for almost anything conceivable.

[Popertop]

What are you looking to get out of it?

I don't really know.
I want a lightsaber, that's for sure.
And if there's a system that can be refluffed to force powers,
that would be good too.

I've been meaning to look into GURPS and MandM.

What is the difference between d6 and d20?

[Kylarra]

I guess the question I'm getting at is, what's wrong with the games that have the star wars label? Star wars D6 (WEG) and Saga Edition both being fine games in their own right.

[RandomLunatic]

I don't really know.
I want a lightsaber, that's for sure.
And if there's a system that can be refluffed to force powers,
that would be good too.

I've been meaning to look into GURPS and MandM.

What is the difference between d6 and d20?

About d14.

Star Wars d20 is, as the name suggests, based on WoTC's d20 system. This makes it a class-based system. RCR is really bad, especially in the balance department, but Saga edition is, IMO, the best WoTC-made incarnation of d20 ever.

d6 is the really old system made by West End Games. I have never played or read it, so all I can really tell you is it is a skill-based system, and it apparantly balances even worse than RCR.

[Popertop]

what does RCR mean?

[Mad Wizard]

I think it stands for Revised Core Rulebook (I could be wrong). Essentially, it's the "D&D 3.5" of Star Wars. It shares a lot of things with 3.5 and has a skill based force power system. I played it once and it was okay. I prefer Saga edition.

[turkishproverb]

d6. Trust me on this.

[Gavinfoxx]

D6 Star Wars
D6 Space (which is basically D6 Star Wars without the badging)
Star Wars Saga Edition

[DukeofDellot]

I typically go GURPS for my Star Wars.

From being the only system mentioned in this thread that actually has rules for cutting people's limbs off with lightsabers (you can't have Jedi without cutting people's limbs off!) and the option to build all of the force powers myself so that I know exactly what my players are getting into (granted that does take time and effort)... oh and building your own races is a part of the system (which means that even though I constantly assume my players are going to be human, or nearly human, they can actually be whatever they want... even if I have to build the race on the spot which typically takes five minutes).

The issue is learning GURPS takes time... well, learning to play GURPS takes around five minutes, it's learning to build characters and running the game that takes a lot of time, and since your on this site, in this forum, I'd feel safe assuming that you already know the d20 system... so there's already the familiar d20 and SAGA editions, so you might rather go with one of those.

[Hida Reju]

Spycraft with the Shadowforce archer psionic rules to replace force powers.

[Kiero]

You've mentioned balance, but you also want Force-users, which means D6 is out since it doesn't manage that at all. Force-users start out crap, but if end up dominating the game if you stick with them. The original game also had ridiculously overpowered signature characters, as though that were the only way of distinguishing them from the PCs.

Anyway, you'll find as many conversions for Star Wars into other systems as there are other systems (at least). My preference is for FATE 3.0, specifically Legends of Anglerre, I use a hack inspired by Saga Edition.

[FelixG]

d6. Trust me on this.

chalk me up for another vote for D6 space. Its the best.

[LordBlades]

Never played d6, but I've had a lot of positive experience with Saga. It's fun and pretty balanced (way better than D&D 3.5 anyway; depending on how powerful you like stuff to be, you might want to set a min lvl for Skill focus: use the force but that's about it).

[Yuki Akuma]

GURPS.

Use the Psionics rules along with energy weapons from GURPS Ultra-Tech and space flight rules from GURPS... Space I think, I don't quite remember where they are.

Optionally use combat rules from GURPS Martial Arts for lightsaber duels.

Actual Star Wars official RPGs tend not to do "balance" well when mixing Force-users and non-Force-users.

[Zuljita]

normally i am a huge fan of GURPS, but IMO the system is a little deadly/gritty for star wars where (despite a barrage of blaster fire) protagonists pull off some pretty ridiculous things. *if* you want the grittier feel, go with GURPS but players are gonna die far more than in the movies without stun rules or the like.

Star wars Saga Edition captures the heroic feel pretty well imo...

i never liked the WEG d6 system but its been more than 10 years since ive played it, if i tried again my opinion might be very different

[Yuki Akuma]

GURPS can do cinematic. Just load up on the optional cinematic rules!

GURPS Martial Arts does a very good job of it, really.

[Talyn]

Sorry to go against popular opinion, but my group found D6 very clunky and not particularly fun to play.

I'd recommend Savage Worlds, using the Magic system for Force abilities, or, if you don't mind a little more homebrewing, the Firefly/Serenity RPG. The second one has a lot more fluff support for a Star Wars game and a more fun, dynamic combat system, but you'll basically need to make up your own Force abilities from scratch.

[Xuc Xac]

I typically go GURPS for my Star Wars.

From being the only system mentioned in this thread that actually has rules for cutting people's limbs off with lightsabers (you can't have Jedi without cutting people's limbs off!)

D6 Star Wars has a very simple rule for that.

[grimbold]

star wars d6 has free rules online somewhere and it is my 2nd favorite system

[Hyfigh]

Star Wars D6 from WEG gets my vote overall. Revised rules set. The rules are simple, but the mechanics can be fairly in-depth. I suggest tweaking the Force. I play the Force abilities as attributes, same as Strength, Dexterity, etc. The Powers end up being worked the same way as skills, requiring training in them to be used. It balances those mechanics very nicely.

Mini-six is based on Open D6, which is what Star Wars D6 became. Open D6 is OGL and can be found for free on the net. Mini-six is a rules-lite variant of Open D6, and is available for free as well. It's adaptable, which is why I enjoy it. It can immitate Star Wars readily.

Mutants & Masterminds is, if you have a strong understanding of the rules and get how the mechanics work, a great system for a more rules intense situation. I've been able to create worlds from Fantasy to Sci-Fi with M&M pretty easily. Star Wars is no exception, and can mimic this Universe well.

[Shenanigans]

I'll toss another vote on for Star Wars Saga Edition. It's a wonderful, cinematic system that incorporates the fluff quite well.

Other than that, I guess my vote would be for GURPS.

[Yuki Akuma]

Hey, guys?

He said without the Star Wars label.

[Kaldrin]

normally i am a huge fan of GURPS, but IMO the system is a little deadly/gritty for star wars where (despite a barrage of blaster fire) protagonists pull off some pretty ridiculous things. *if* you want the grittier feel, go with GURPS but players are gonna die far more than in the movies without stun rules or the like.

Actually, there are some optional rules that you can use. Good guys always fire first and storm trooper marksmanship academy (everyone misses their first volley at the heroes) are two important ones. Of course, I don't tell the players which ones I'm using, so they feel like they're really in danger.

I've run some very cinematic games in GURPS with just application of house rules, optional rules and use of supplements such as imbuements.

It's also about the point tweaking. Heroic Star Wars characters are probably 300+ pts each, where the storm troopers are maybe 75 pts. Criticals still happen, but then that's what Luck is for. According to every movie, tv show and book I've read about heroic characters no matter what the genre they always have something good happen just at the right time. In GURPS that's Luck.

The biggest problem would be putting the force powers together, but all that is just work waiting to be done. They're all more or less there, just need to be tweaked for SW. There's even existing rules for precognitive parrying of blaster bolts.

[Kaldrin]

I typically go GURPS for my Star Wars.

This is what I do and have done. It takes a few supplemental books to get all of the rules together (I consider Martial Arts to be a core book though) for the true feeling of star wars. I'm sure if you look on the SJGames forums there will be dozens of threads on configuring the game for Star Wars.

[DukeofDellot]

You know, I still have that campaign guide I was working on (but never finished) for my Sith Academy game. Personally, I think that Powers is the book of choice for things like:

Spoiler

Show

Force Control [5/Level]
Telekinesis (1 FP, -10%; Increased Range x50, +20%; The Force, -10%)
Telekinesis at a range of 50 Yards. It costs 1 FP to activate it and center it on an object, and an additional point per minute you need to focus on the single object. Your level is your effective ST when using the Ability. You do not add your Force Talent to these rolls, but you do add Force Talent to any DX rolls made using this Power.

Lightning [4]
Burning Attack 4 (2 FP/Dice, -50%; Increased 1/2D x5, +10%; Reduced Range 5, -20%; Side Effect: Stun, +50%; Surge, +20%; The Force, -10%) (Alternate Ability, x1/5)
Prerequisite: Force Control Level 8
You may fire Lightning from your fingertips. It costs 2 FP per dice and requires an Innate Attack Skill Roll. The target may Dodge, but not parry this attack. The target must be within 10 Yards to take full damage, or within 20 Yards to take half. On a successful attack, the target must Roll against HT at a penalty equal to half the penetrating damage or be Stunned. He may make an unmodified HT roll each second thereafter to recover.

Jedi Mind Trick [5]
Affliction (2 FP, -20%; Disadvantage: Gullibility, +30%; Malediction 3 (Limited Range 50 Yards), +150%; The Force, -10%) (Alternate Ability, x1/5)
Prerequisite: Force Control Level 5
You may trick people into believing reasonably believable, or somewhat bizarre facts as long as the individual in question is not asked to hurt himself or anyone he cares for, asked to relinquish an item more important or valuable than a single dose of a legal hallucinogenic drug, or asked to answer a question that requires more than a passing thought. You must spend 2 FP and win a Will contest with the subject, the Subject is fooled for a number of minutes equal to the margin of success.

For a small sample of what I had in the works as far as force powers... The game was meant to be dark and gritty since it took place far inside the darkside and I was including templates for easy to replace PCs, such as:

Spoiler

Show

Marauder
200 Points
Attributes: ST 12 [20]; DX 13 [60]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 12 [20].
Secondary Characteristics: Damage 1d-1/1d+2; BL 28; HP 12 [0]; Will 12 [10]; Per 10 [0]; Basic Speed 6.25 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0].
Advantages: Combat Reflexes [15]; Weapon Master (Lightsaber or Double Bladed Lightsaber) [20]; Force Control 5 [25]; Signature Gear (Lightsaber or Double-Bladed Lightsaber) [1]; and 35 points chosen among Ambidexterity [5]; Luck [15]; Mind Shield [4/level]; Perfect Balance [15]; or Force Powers.
Disadvantages: -40 Points chosen among Bloodlust [-10*]; Bully [-10*]; Callous [-5]; Greed [-15*]; Impulsiveness [-10*]; Overconfidence [-5*]; Sadism [-15*]; and Selfish [-5*].
Primary Skills: Choice of Lightsaber (A) DX+2 [8]-15 or Lightsaber (Double) (H) DX+1 [8]-14; Fast-Draw (Lightsaber) (E) DX+2 [4]-14 and Armory (Lightsaber) (A) IQ+2 [8]-12.
Secondary Skills: Choose 5 of, Acrobatics (H) DX-1 [2]-12, Blaster (Pistol or Rifle) DX+1 [2]-14; Holdout (A) DX [2]-13; Intimidation (A) Will [2]-12; Jumping (E) DX+1 [2]-14; Gunner (E) DX+2 [2]-14; Mental Strength (E) Will+1 [2]-13; Piloting (Starfighter) (A) DX [2]-13; or Thrown Weapon (Lightsaber) (E) DX+1 [2]-14.
Background skills: Choose 4 of Climbing (A) DX-1 [1]-12; Computer Operation (E) IQ [1]-10; Drive (Hover) (A) DX-1 [1]-12; Forced Entry (E) DX [2]-13; Power Blow (H) Will-2 [1]-10; Running (A) HT-1 [1]-11; Stealth (A) DX-1 [1]-12; or Wrestling (A) DX-1 [1]-12.

I know, it's not perfect, but it was fun to make, and I'm sure it would do fine for a short game... and while that was a completed template (and I didn't finish the other two) that wasn't the complete powers list (but I have it done). The whole Prerequisite thing was a concept to make the players work up into the cooler powers by having to level their force control at the expense of their other abilities (and so that I wouldn't have to re-explain the alternate abilities rules every half-hour) and totally included as an optional rule so the only house rule mentioned in this post is Peekitty's suggestion to double the modifier of FP costs.

[randomhero00]

I'd say careful DMing and mastering of Mutants and Masterminds. You really can tweak it to just about anything you want. You just need everyone on the same power level page.

edit: I mean come on, Jedis are basically super heroes and Sith are basically super villains. Its set in a space opera setting, but who is kidding themselves? Its really a superhero genre.

[Kaldrin]

edit: I mean come on, Jedis are basically super heroes and Sith are basically super villains. Its set in a space opera setting, but who is kidding themselves? Its really a superhero genre.

Except that in my last two games of Star Wars no one has wanted to play a jedi. The GM had to convince me in our last one to multi-class into it after I made a different class entirely at the start (d20 system).