First Time DM requests help in creating Awesome Moment

[Darthteej]

Okay, so I am working on my own campaign after a bit of time being a player, and it will be my first time DMing. The campaign is a heavy adaption expansion from the world presented in Tome of Battle, and centers around rediscovering the Nine Swords and bringing the world back into a golden age. Needless to say, there are going to be twists, turns, and complications, it's a long term plot that's intended to bring my players to near max level.

Enter my dilemna: I want and need to provide some truly memorable moments for my friends. One of things that I want to entrench as a truly fantastic moment is the voyage to the Islands Beyond the Dawn and masters of the setting sun discipline. I figure that there has to be a reason for people not to be able to find them, and that this being D&D, it's going to be cooler than the fact that navigation technology isn't up to snuff. Enter my dilemma.

There are two possibilities that I've come up with, and they are vastly different. One involves the Asian Demons(not racism, literal demons, it's a long story), who often field massive warships into this ocean. The players would come up against a virtual armada of them while being on a tiny skiff, and have to fight out all of them using a combination of luck, power, and ingenuity. Naturally, there are going to be pretty impressive description involving demon ships, storm torn cliffs, and evil samurai, but this is mostly a way to let the players take things into their own hands. The other option is almost purely none-mechanical, but I'm in love with the potential description. Basically, during the journey the wind and tides appear to be on their sides, whisking the skiff across the oceans. As time goes on however, the waves and air get rougher, and eventually they begin to see that this is a gathering of elementals. It culminates in a massive battle between an elemental monolith of water and air, and suffice to say that it involves a tornado and a whirlpool, not to mention some liberties on my part to the appearance of the monoliths. While truly spectacular in my mind, the only dice are those for minor strength checks, and after the spectacle is over, it's over. The captain NPC talks about the power of nature compared to humanity and they move on.

I really can't decide which is a better option for the game, and I don't want to include both, lest they overshadow other moments that I have planned(especially because neither of these is important to the plot). So, which is wiser, a massive mechanically complex battle, or a breather with lots of prose?

[Callista]

Well, the problem with the power-of-nature scenario is that the PCs aren't participating that much. It's a cool idea, but I think if you use that one you'll have to find a way to give them something to do.

Of course... if you're really evil, you could do both things simultaneously.

[Popertop]

the wiser choice would be what your players would enjoy more

[Virtu]

My first thought was inspired (loosely) by The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay.

The ocean is non-navigable, causing ships that go astray of a certain path to drift endlessly. Give your characters an idea as to the path, but there's a guardian sea creature set by the demons you'd mentioned. Wrecked ships litter the ocean bottom along the path at one point; a storm brews. As they fight to stay on path, they notice an impossibly gigantic silhouette rising from the water, backlit against the lightning.

It's always possible to change the appearance of an Ocean Strider (MM2, CR18) to meet anything that you want to portray physically, or even better, a Scyllan (Stormwrack, CR13) since it's already an evil Outsider and thus fits with your demons idea.

You allow them to face off and possibly defeat a terrible guardian that has struck down hundreds or thousands of travelers, secluding the masters of the Setting Sun discipline. You hook in the demons (further, if they're already involved in the plot). The characters are directly involved in their fate via climactic battle.

Hope this helps?

EDIT- In retrospect, this is actually quite similar to your idea now that I've thought about it. And here I was, all excited. xD

[akma]

I like the idea of the demon ship more. It sounds more fun.
With the monolith elementanels, it`s just strength checks.
With the demon ship, the players will have to plan, fight, maybe even negotiate. Alot more action.

[Chilingsworth]

Hate to nitpick, but... How can you have Demon (Chaotic evil outsiders) Samurai (requires Lawful alignment)? Or do you not mean either demons or samurai literally?

Other than that, I'd recomend using either a single monster ro (at most) a small group of gaurdian monsters, since you're new to Dm'ing. Running a large-scale battle (such as, say, a naval armada) can get very complicated.

EDIT: With the monoliths, what's stopping the characters from trying to take one or both on? Even if it's suicide, never discount PC's ability to get into a fight.

[Rhavin]

EDIT: With the monoliths, what's stopping the characters from trying to take one or both on? Even if it's suicide, never discount PC's ability to get into a fight.

I'll second this. In the last session I ran, the PC's came across a well manned frontier fort. I expected them to ambush the convoy that would be leaving the fort in the next day or two, but instead they decided to ambush the fort. Try never to underestimate the player's opinion of their own capabilities.

[imperialspectre]

Since you're a new DM, I'm going to try to be straightforward but not too harsh.

The first option is much better. In a type of entertainment where people expect to participate (such as a tabletop RPG, which is about as interactive as entertainment gets), players expect to be able to interact with their environment. Lengthy descriptive prose is not interactive, so players tend to tune it out.

Also, unless you're houseruling out huge chunks of 3.5 material (such as every single full-caster class), sermonizing about nature's power over humanity isn't just annoying, it's also entirely false. Humanity in D&D is mechanically way more powerful than any force of nature, and the only reason the PCs can't roflstomp the elementals you're getting all poetic over is that they haven't gotten to high enough levels.

Anyway, the key issue is that players don't care about things that their characters can't kill, sleep with, loot, or at least start arguments with. If you're lucky, they'll be interested in plot-related material that points them to something that fits in one of the above categories. And "awesome moments" aren't created by one person, they're the product of a whole gaming group that shares interest and motivation in the game.

Good luck.

[Virtu]

Hate to nitpick, but... How can you have Demon (Chaotic evil outsiders) Samurai (requires Lawful alignment)?

Because you can alter class fluff and alignments, and still maintain flavour. For example, I don't necessarily see classes and prestige classes as what they're titled as. I see them as different skillsets and specializations.

And it's always possible that evil samurai may attempt to exert their will over demons and try to direct them them same way you would direct any other weapon.

[Cerlis]

I do like the first option, since i play dynasty warriors alot

But i think the second would be dooable, if the players where left on flying/floating debree (as required) in the middle of the battle, and in order to "sail" to the island they have to do stuff like Stab one of the elementals in the arm (so he will draw it in and thus change the wind/current direction) other options include stabbing int he face or ramming a boat into one of the elementals when they get close to em. Surely the monks of the Island would be interested in heros who "conquered Gods"

but maybe that might be better for a simular scenario at higher level.

See God of War or Bayonetta boss fights (dont know about GoW buy Bayonetta you usually have to get rid of his weapons then take down his defenses before being able to attack him directly. Its basically a big fight that happens on a small(er) scale)

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Edit: and also when he says Asian demons he's being literal. Demons and Devils are the same thing in mainstream religion, they are only chaotic/lawful in DnD. he essentially means monsters based off evil asian spiritual beings (oni)

[woodenbandman]

Demons.

No question.

Why, you ask?

BECAUSE I GET TO SLAY AN ARMADA OF FRICKIN' DEMONS!

think about it. Would you as a player rather listen to the DM describe something, or slay some frickin' demons?

[KillianHawkeye]

The first option is much better. In a type of entertainment where people expect to participate (such as a tabletop RPG, which is about as interactive as entertainment gets), players expect to be able to interact with their environment. Lengthy descriptive prose is not interactive, so players tend to tune it out.

+1 to this. Some things that would be totally awesome in a movie don't necessarily work in D&D, and you just can't force them to. D&D is not about cutscenes.

[Xiander]

Well, the problem with the power-of-nature scenario is that the PCs aren't participating that much. It's a cool idea, but I think if you use that one you'll have to find a way to give them something to do.

Of course... if you're really evil, you could do both things simultaneously.

this.

Lets say you are horde of demons whith a desire to prevent people to find something. The best choice is obviously to ambush them in a place where they will have a hard time defending themselves. If finding the stuff entails traveling through a place where nature rages against itself... that fits the bill