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    AssassinGuy

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    Default [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Hey all,

    I really like playing DnD but sometimes I want something different than a medieval (or pre-medieval) game. I'm quite interested in playing a swashbuckling pirate or navy officer once in a while and you can't have one of those without some fancy thunderbluss or musket or pistol. I just wonder if there's some book (official would be preferred but third party is fine too) that has any rules for these ancient types of guns (or, if there are no rules for it, if there's a different RPG that has rules for them).

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    For D&D 3.5, rules for firearms are written in the Dungeon Master's Guidebook, chapter 5 Campaigns, page 145.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaEmil View Post
    For D&D 3.5, rules for firearms are written in the Dungeon Master's Guidebook, chapter 5 Campaigns, page 145.
    Meh. Those guns are also ridiculously underpowered IIRC.

    Iron Kingdoms is a Steam Punk setting that uses turret, clockwork, musket and various other firearms in its system, while still maintaining a modicum of swordery.

    I believe there is a module (or maybe a whole system, not ENTIRELY sure) called Seven Seas or somesuch that deals explicitly with High Sea's adventures and swashbuckling. Might be worth looking into...

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Oh, I absolutely concur, it's just that these are "the most official" firearm rules for D&D 3.5. Most weapons in D&D suck, either because they need the exotic weapon proficiency, or because their stats are just that bad. D&D is all about two-handed weapons, wands and bows to crush the enemies and hear the lamentations of their women (who must also be crushed).

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaEmil View Post
    Oh, I absolutely concur, it's just that these are "the most official" firearm rules for D&D 3.5. Most weapons in D&D suck, either because they need the exotic weapon proficiency, or because their stats are just that bad. D&D is all about two-handed weapons, wands and bows to crush the enemies and hear the lamentations of their women (who must also be crushed).
    Do you think that giving all PC's a standard weapon prof. for firearms would solve that problem, or is the standard action reloading still too crippling?

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    Do you think that giving all PC's a standard weapon prof. for firearms would solve that problem, or is the standard action reloading still too crippling?
    Imagine your sword breaking everytime you hit something with it.

    That's exactly how crippling.

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    Thumbs up Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    There are more firearm homebrews written than pellets of #9 shot in a 12ga shell. That said, you can approximate some of your own... how I run firearms is vaguely as follows:

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    A musket (or muzzle-loading shotgun) is the basic weapon, maybe 2d12/x3, martial with a range inc. of 100' and standard action to reload.

    A blunderbuss is a shorter musket (essentially another kind of shotgun) with a quicker reload time (move action) due to its flared muzzle. 2d8/x3, martial with a range of 75'.

    A pistol is concealable with Slight of Hand, but significantly less powerful due to its short barrel. 1d10/x3, simple (for roguey types, even though they are harder to use than longarms) with a range of 50'. Standard Action to reload.

    A rifle is more accurate and has a longer range and better critical, but sacrifices reload speed because the rifling grooves make it more difficult to push the patched ball down the barrel. 2d12/x4 Martial or Exotic with a full-round reload, range of 150'.

    Everything except for the Blunderbuss can be made double-barreled for Rapid Shot action, and I allow Rapid Reload to affect everything down to a move action just like with crossbows.



    I figure the higher damage of the weapons is tempered by reload time, and while reloading really does take much longer, the time given conserves game balance. I've run only a one-off with these rules included, but it seemed to work fine for me.
    Last edited by Achernar; 2011-01-08 at 02:12 PM.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    Imagine your sword breaking everytime you hit something with it.

    That's exactly how crippling.
    Any time I've used firearms in a campaign, I allowed revolvers. If you can get a longbow that does the same damage, no one would bother with a matchlock pistol.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    I don't have d20 past myself, but it's often cited when people want to play in time periods between high middle ages and modern times.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keinnicht View Post
    Any time I've used firearms in a campaign, I allowed revolvers. If you can get a longbow that does the same damage, no one would bother with a matchlock pistol.
    Within the dungeon and dragons mechanics, you are absolutely right.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Try the d20 Modern and/or Past if you want more dakka, the rules are close enough that importing, along with possibly some feats, should be a piece o' cake.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Try the d20 Modern and/or Past if you want more dakka, the rules are close enough that importing, along with possibly some feats, should be a piece o' cake.
    Is there an srd for d20 past?

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaEmil View Post
    For D&D 3.5, rules for firearms are written in the Dungeon Master's Guidebook, chapter 5 Campaigns, page 145.
    those are wayunderpowered they are barely stronger than swords
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint GoH View Post
    I believe there is a module (or maybe a whole system, not ENTIRELY sure) called Seven Seas or somesuch that deals explicitly with High Sea's adventures and swashbuckling. Might be worth looking into...
    7th Sea, from AEG, the company behind Legend of the Five Rings. It's incredibly hard to find a print copy of, since I believe there were only 1 or 2 print runs. You can download a PDF from drivethrurpg for about $12 though.

    They also made a d20 version called Swashbuckling Adventures, which I don't think was particularly well recieved, and still probably hard to find.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by grimbold View Post
    those are wayunderpowered they are barely stronger than swords
    It was my understanding that they modeled earlier firearms, which *were* weaker than swords.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    Is there an srd for d20 past?
    Unfortunatly no, but as you may be aware, there is one for Modern and Future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Unfortunatly no, but as you may be aware, there is one for Modern and Future.
    Looking at the Modern weapons, they look mechanically fitting to a 3.5 game. The base damage is pretty large, but then again archery has so little support it'll have to be. Making them relatively expensive should work.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Just a warning from watching our group: If you make weapons with a long reload time, put some limits as to how many of them can be reasonably carried in a position where they can be drawn. Otherwise you get what we started doing - the PC's carry 10 loaded guns in their belt.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Just a warning from watching our group: If you make weapons with a long reload time, put some limits as to how many of them can be reasonably carried in a position where they can be drawn. Otherwise you get what we started doing - the PC's carry 10 loaded guns in their belt.
    There's a feat for that: "Captain Edward Teach."

    Pre-reqs: Quick Draw and 1d4 pieces of slow-match burning in your beard.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Just a warning from watching our group: If you make weapons with a long reload time, put some limits as to how many of them can be reasonably carried in a position where they can be drawn. Otherwise you get what we started doing - the PC's carry 10 loaded guns in their belt.
    That's basically the only way to make the DMG guns anywhere near feasible, and even then you only get a couple of shots before you gotta get your sword swinging and clanging.

    Granted, outside two armies battling, that was generally the way they did it back then. But that's not cool.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Just a warning from watching our group: If you make weapons with a long reload time, put some limits as to how many of them can be reasonably carried in a position where they can be drawn. Otherwise you get what we started doing - the PC's carry 10 loaded guns in their belt.
    As a Gun Mage in an IK game, I usually carry about 4 or 5. At least one has multiple barrels. But then again, Gun Mages only bond with pistols, so carrying that many is definitely plausible.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    As a Gun Mage in an IK game, I usually carry about 4 or 5. At least one has multiple barrels. But then again, Gun Mages only bond with pistols, so carrying that many is definitely plausible.
    How broken this technique is depends on how powerful your guns are. I think ours did significantly more than the equivalent bow - 2d6 or 2d8 damage.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    How broken this technique is depends on how powerful your guns are. I think ours did significantly more than the equivalent bow - 2d6 or 2d8 damage.
    That's about right for IK (with an 80' range increment). Standard action reload, and a feat to make it a move action.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    That's basically the only way to make the DMG guns anywhere near feasible, and even then you only get a couple of shots before you gotta get your sword swinging and clanging.

    Granted, outside two armies battling, that was generally the way they did it back then. But that's not cool.
    Are you sure? Seems pretty cool to me.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Just a warning from watching our group: If you make weapons with a long reload time, put some limits as to how many of them can be reasonably carried in a position where they can be drawn. Otherwise you get what we started doing - the PC's carry 10 loaded guns in their belt.
    Nothing wrong with this. Pirates used to do it boarding ships when possible. If it becomes a real annoyance, you simply remind the players of the hazards of carrying loaded gunpowder weapons.

    Rain will dampen their day (shoot me for the bad pun later), as will any kind of water immersion, when their guns no longer function.

    A concentrated amount of heat could set the guns off while they're loaded in a person's belt.

    I'm sure there are other things you could use that are equally obvious.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    Nothing wrong with this. Pirates used to do it boarding ships when possible. If it becomes a real annoyance, you simply remind the players of the hazards of carrying loaded gunpowder weapons.

    Rain will dampen their day (shoot me for the bad pun later), as will any kind of water immersion, when their guns no longer function.

    A concentrated amount of heat could set the guns off while they're loaded in a person's belt.

    I'm sure there are other things you could use that are equally obvious.
    In-game, I think the primary issue is that it was producing too much hp damage for the level where we were. It ended up extending the amount of early game time where getting hit was just about a death sentence.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    In-game, I think the primary issue is that it was producing too much hp damage for the level where we were. It ended up extending the amount of early game time where getting hit was just about a death sentence.
    Huh. I would have thought that unmodified die rolls of that magnitude would only be one-hit lethal at levels 1-2, maybe up to 4 for wizards... was it that big of a problem? (I rarely run games under level 5). I hadn't thought of it that way before...

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Achernar View Post
    Huh. I would have thought that unmodified die rolls of that magnitude would only be one-hit lethal at levels 1-2, maybe up to 4 for wizards... was it that big of a problem? (I rarely run games under level 5). I hadn't thought of it that way before...
    It wasn't one-hit lethal as much as that they were easy to dual-wield and considered a martial weapon. So a cr-appropriate encounter against a couple of warriors with guns could flatten a level 4 or 5 quickly, particularly since we never seem to roll good initiative checks.
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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Seems fair to me. Once guns are introduced, shooting first should be a priority. Staying behind cover at all times unless you know an area is secured would also help.

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    Default Re: [dnd 3.5e] Renaissance/Industrial weapons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caewil View Post
    Seems fair to me. Once guns are introduced, shooting first should be a priority. Staying behind cover at all times unless you know an area is secured would also help.
    Of course, guns actually did increase the lethality of combat and render armor all but useless. They also massively changed the way tactics worked. Which is fine if that's what you want to do with D&D. But if they're a common weapon, expect some significant changes. If you're in a situation where the opponent has guns and you don't (like we were, because we hadn't been able to buy any), you're not going to do well.

    Personally, I don't like guns in your standard dungeon crawl. How often do you have cover available anyway? You don't have a choice about going around that corner where there might be someone waiting.
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2011-01-10 at 12:50 AM.
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