Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 36
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In an Octopus's Garden

    Default Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Do clerics know the spells on there list? Can clerics know spells any other way?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    yes. id say no

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    I've always felt that cleric knowledge of all their spell options was weird, due to the sheer number of obscure cleric spells out there. But I don't really have a good game-mechanical answer for it other than a favored soul or an archivist. I guess it makes more sense when the cleric spell list was much more limited (i.e. core only). It also has the unfortunate side-effect of making spell research to create new spells a non-option for clerics, or _very_ strange as every cleric in the multiverse suddenly finds a new spell on their list.

    Using Limited Wish, Wish and Miracle to emulate spells the caster does not know (and often would never have heard of in-character) has a similar conceptual issue, which can be solved by the DM requiring some kind of Knowledge check, or by saying that the wish is phrased as 'I want X to happen' and the spell somehow scans the total repository of magic to find the spell that does X.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Final Chapter
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.
    That about covers it.
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2011-01-08 at 05:55 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    Do clerics know the spells on there list? Can clerics know spells any other way?
    Clerics can know additional spells if they are Domain spells, which come with their own set of rules (you get one domain slot per spell level). Standard clerics get two domains, chosen at first level. Cleric.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In an Octopus's Garden

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    To clarify, not can a cleric cast from their entire list, but do cleric's know spells on there list like for the purpose of feats and PrC's?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    ...Yes. They do.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    I'm sure it isn't intended to work with versatile spellcaster, but it does as written unless I'm missing something completely.

    have fun with the ability to cast spontaneously off the entirely of a gigantic list just by expending extra spell slots.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    Do clerics know the spells on there list? Can clerics know spells any other way?
    Yup. Keep in mind the list isn't gigantic like the Wizards though; the two equal out for that very reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
    CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Final Chapter
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    Because that would require a huge block of CANs & CAN'Ts, & they're powerful enough as it is.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Copenhagen, DK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    I like to think of it as the cleric praying for miracolous powers to deal with a specific (set of) situation(s), with the spells he actually gets being picked by the deity (or whoever/whatever grants the spells). Of course, this would be more work for the DM and taking away from the player's freedom, so effectively it works best for all if the player just picks the spells. This may not work logically on every possible level when examined too closely, but I like the overall fluff of it.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClockShock's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    Because cleric spells still need preparing before they're needed.
    (Avatar by Ava)

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    Because Clerics don't channel the power of their deity. Their deity puts spells in their head, mostly-cast, so their priests can say a few trigger phrases and pretend to be Wizards.

    The hint is in the fact that Clerics can't have their prepared spells taken away from them - they can just be barred from preparing new spells.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Because that would require a huge block of CANs & CAN'Ts, & they're powerful enough as it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by ClockShock View Post
    Because cleric spells still need preparing before they're needed.
    That's crunch though. Still doesn't have a good in-universe justification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Because Clerics don't channel the power of their deity. Their deity puts spells in their head, mostly-cast, so their priests can say a few trigger phrases and pretend to be Wizards.

    The hint is in the fact that Clerics can't have their prepared spells taken away from them - they can just be barred from preparing new spells.
    Good point there. Not sure I'm convinced though, still.
    Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
    CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    That's crunch though. Still doesn't have a good in-universe justification.
    Because magic comes in prepackaged clumps. Since it's magic, and magic works like that.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Banned
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    Do clerics know the spells on there list? Can clerics know spells any other way?

    I've always done it this way:

    Your Religion teaches you all the spells on the list, that is the spell names and what they do. In cleric training your taught 'if you need to see in the dark, there is a spell called 'Light' that can make light.'

    Also when you pray and/or dream, your deity makes all the spells they grant known to you. Every night you get at least one spell dream: a dream where you are shown casting spells to do things.

    So when you wake up in the morning you can pick from the spells you know exist or pick from one of the 'new' spells you saw in your dream.


    I also have always liked the idea of a cleric praying and asking for a new spell when needed.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Druids and Sorcerers have the same problem. How does a Sorcerer just "know" a super obscure spell? How does a Druid know of all those spells in splat books? I mostly just say "who the hell knows, but mechanically they do."

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    You don't cast spells. God does. But the time it takes to ask for a spell is too long for use in combat; essentially you ask Him for a lot of magic and hope you guessed what you need. A Cleric cannot cast magic themselves at all (or a Druid).
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azernak0 View Post
    Druids and Sorcerers have the same problem. How does a Sorcerer just "know" a super obscure spell? How does a Druid know of all those spells in splat books? I mostly just say "who the hell knows, but mechanically they do."
    ...Sorcerers don't "know" spells. They have an innate ability to cast them. They don't pick and choose.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    So basically, Gods are arms dealers.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    USA

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I always thought this was a bit weird, actually. For wizards, it makes sense that you use spells off a list, because each spell has its own mini ritual and if you want a new spell you have to figure out its ritual or form or whatever. For clerics, you're channeling the power of your deity. Why does it have to take the form of a particular spell? Why can't I just customize it as needed?
    Do you want a RP explanation? Obviously, out of game, the explanation is "balance", but praying for a specific set of spells makes sense in-game, too.

    Did you ever check out the gods' stats? They have them, just like anyone, but they're ridiculously high--epic and then some, plus the special abilities they get from being, y'know, gods. So when your 5th-level cleric asks for that Hold Person spell, he's connecting his fragile little 10-INT, 17-WIS brain to the mind of a god. That's a dangerous thing for any mortal to do. No wonder he has to meditate/pray/carry out rituals in order to do this safely, or to accomplish it at all. Most likely, the evil deities (and some of the neutral ones) routinely splat clerics who get too pushy. A god is not a vending machine--pay a prayer, get a spell. A god is an epic-plus person who you're just capable of barely understanding as it is, and you're daring to ask for favors from him! You better believe that takes some special procedures. And you just don't have the time for getting yourself into the proper frame of mind when you've got an enemy orcish barbarian trying to stick his greataxe through your rib cage.
    Last edited by Callista; 2011-01-08 at 11:44 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    It kind of reminds me of Dragonlance where one of the Draconians cast arcane spells, but he got them as a Cleric does and Tiamat (Tahkisis) gave him the spells she felt like instead of exactly what he asked for.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    You don't cast spells. God does. But the time it takes to ask for a spell is too long for use in combat; essentially you ask Him for a lot of magic and hope you guessed what you need. A Cleric cannot cast magic themselves at all (or a Druid).
    And Clerics of Ideals/Alignements?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
     
    turkishproverb's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Under a 1st Ed AD&D DMG

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Omnik View Post
    And Clerics of Ideals/Alignements?
    The Force.

    That's right, I said it. Yoda was ClericZilla.
    Avatar by Akirim.Elf
    Spoiler
    Show
    by Akirim.elfKickstarter Avatar by Savannah
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Star Wars canon is one of those things where people have started to realize that the guys in charge are so far off their rockers that it's probably for the best to ignore them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triscuitable View Post

    OH GOD THEY'RE COMING! RUN! RUN, TURKISHPROVERB, RUN!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxios View Post
    GENERIC FLAMING COMMENT, POSSIBLY INVOLVING YOUR MOTHER !

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Omnik View Post
    And Clerics of Ideals/Alignements?
    Get their spells from gods that share those ideals. They put out the spells for their clerics and simply steal them :P

    Or we could make it more metaphysical and make two overlapping webs of magic; arcane magic which is the stuff of reality, and divine magic which is from outside of reality. The Clerics all draw their spells from the outside web, which is manipulated by the will of the user as opposed to following set laws. However it can only be used in a relatively few ways, and so only so many Cleric spells can exist. This then connects to the fact that Miracle doesn't cost XP; the Cleric has finally figured out how to use the Divine Essence as a god does, though much less of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    It also has the unfortunate side-effect of making spell research to create new spells a non-option for clerics, or _very_ strange as every cleric in the multiverse suddenly finds a new spell on their list.
    I don't have a source, but I believe the way this work was that the individual who researches the spell can use it, but other people can't unless the cleric teaches it to them or their deity decides to release it to others of the faith. Might have been general advice in the DMG?
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Omnik View Post
    And Clerics of Ideals/Alignements?
    According to the Athar, the Great Unknown, the source of the Gods' powers.

    After all, Athar clerics gain spells too, and they specifically don't worship anything.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In an Octopus's Garden

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I don't have a source, but I believe the way this work was that the individual who researches the spell can use it, but other people can't unless the cleric teaches it to them or their deity decides to release it to others of the faith. Might have been general advice in the DMG?
    Indeed. It is in the SRD

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jorgenfist
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Do Clerics know the spells on their list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Get their spells from gods that share those ideals. They put out the spells for their clerics and simply steal them :P
    Forgotten Realms isn't the only campaign setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •