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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    1/2 HD in that class count as class levels for the exit caster class. Yay, ToB.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    To delete a double post, just click 'edit', then at the top, check the 'delete this post' circle and hit the 'delete post' button.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I know, I just had to leave right then.

  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    So... Imagine Monsterclass 10/Caster. They cannot get 9th level spells pre-epic.
    A caster without 9th level spells is basically worthless.
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  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    ... I dunno, I can do a lot with an 8th level spell slot.

    It's also less clumsy than the method we currently have. You spontaneously grow caster levels from nowhere, but it isn't bad.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    But nothing like as much as an 8th level slot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    ... It's actually REALLY easy to Meta Magic stuff out. Yes, 9th level spells are awesome. But 6th level spells out do what most fighters can do. The lose of top level spells is a hard hit.

    Ultimately, it's more balanced to go with my way. Because with this, you get a monster class, then a whole bunch of high level spells. With my way? You lose out on said top level spells but not the little ones.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    But a ninth level spell INCLUDES most spells below it in functionality. No blasting spell is more simply powerful than Meteor Swarm, or even, dare I say it, Polar Ray.

    There's a reason any PrC that loses enough Caster levels to drop 9th level is immediately ignored by most high powered builds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    And in this scenario, we are offering the high level spells ON TOP of a ton of abilities.

    For example, a 16 HD monster class can finish out with the last 4 levels in a full caster and get ALL the ninth level spells of a Caster 20. The succubus is a 7 level class that strictly superior to Sorcerer, and you can get all the goodies of a level 20 sorcerer (except, possibly, the benefits of a max level familiar, not that it matters) plus 7d8 hit dice that come with medium bab, 8+Int skills per level, +7 cha, and a good Reflex save. That's before I even look at the actual class abilities.

    Yes, it's an issue that makes many caster monsters less appetizing. No, I don't think that it would be horribly unbalancing.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    But not the lower spells, which are, as you said yourself, important. Problem is, 9th level spells beat out every other class feature. Bar none.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Okay, sounds great. I'll take five on critiquing until I've got some of my monsters finished with.

    Speaking of which, I consider them to be basically done, so any forthcoming critiques would be a blessing. I guess it's possible that the living spell still doesn't have descriptions for all the unclear Anima, but I thought I got them all.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    So let me get this straight.

    Effectively, I'm saying balance it by taking away the nukes and leaving them all the lesser tools.

    You're saying balance it by giving them the nukes and taking away the lesser tools.

    Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineThePuma View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    Effectively, I'm saying balance it by taking away the nukes and leaving them all the lesser tools.

    You're saying balance it by giving them the nukes and taking away the lesser tools.

    Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?
    Possibly. Sixth level spells are considered level appropriate abilities for an eleventh level character, ninth level are level appropriate for a seventeenth level character.What you are suggesting would mean that any caster with more than a handful of monster levels would be weaker than any single classed caster of the same level. And no, single classed spellcaster isn't our balance point, it's just that we want these classes to be useful in as many campaigns as possible, and cutting all spellcasting monsters out of any game with optimization going on isn't good.

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    So just to make sure I understand it: Monster classes that have that spellcasting bonus essentially allow you to skip over a number of levels of a spellcasting class equal to your levels in that monster class for purposes of spells known and spell slots.
    Is there any way to regain a small amount of the spells you skipped over? For example, a sorcerer doesn't gain cantrip spell slots when going from 7th to 8th level. Would a 7th level succubus/1st level sorceress get any cantrips at all?
    If not, are spell slots skipped set to - or to 0? (Because if they are 0, the number could be increased with bonus spell slots from high stats, but a - cannot be increased in that way.
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  15. - Top - End - #405
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    I was discussing the matter of monster class spellcasting over IM with Gorgon last night. Gorgon was coming up with all sorts of ways the present system could be exploited.

    As it stands, the current system, as it was initially conceived by Oslecamo, is supposed to say "Your SLAs and class features roughly approximate the power boost that a sorc gets from level 1 to whatever your current level is". As such, getting spells for earlier levels is redundant and problematic. Given that you're essentially a caster monster (or you're supposed to be, anyways), going on to cast 9th level spells at 20 isn't supposed to be a big deal.

    The problem is that the system is ultimately breakable. Gorgon was saying taking levels in focused spellcasting or getting bonus spells from a high attribute basically gets you the low level spells, and then you've got access to the nines if you're willing to invest. I'm not sure this works (given you're not necessarily getting both spells known or spells per day), but the system is admittedly clunky and flawed. This is made a greater issue by the fact that some monsters were given enough class features that they've basically got sorcerer casting with gravy, making them rather powerful and somewhat problematic when they do get their caster levels.

    Let's get it out of the way and say that Oslecamo's work is not balanced. It ranges from tier 5 to tier 1 and it's awkward enough that we've made something of a project of going back and redoing his monsters. As such, one should try not to use it as a measuring stick for their own work or for what the community is producing. If you're going to say the whole "has caster levels equal to monster class + spellcaster class levels combined, advances the highest appropriate level of spellcaster spells, but not retroactively" thing is imbalanced, use one of the more recent monsters to gauge. Pick on the Marraenoloth, maybe. Gorgon likes that one and you're sure to get a lot of juicy responses if you go after it.

    And that isn't to say I don't think Ninethepuma is more or less right about the issues with the current system. It's just that I don't know he's right about the fix, and that's compounded by the fact that a change to the core methodology means changing 12-25 monsters (at a guess) to replace the text and change what happens when they take spellcasting levels. Those monsters would have to be edited to insert new spellcasting transition rules, and some/most of them are by posters that are presently banned or who've left the project/the forums. It would mean reposting a lot of monsters. So with that in mind, we want to be sure that any rule we'd pick up wouldn't just be "not quite as issue prone". Nine does have a tendency to ignore the administration side of things, asking for images to be removed from monster classes, asking that we insert type & favored class into the list of monsters, (which would require we put it in table format), and I think there were one or two others that've come up in the past. Anyways, I've just got to stress that it's no use making a sweeping change if the act of carrying out that change is so complicated and time consuming and messy that the thread goes belly up.

    Getting back on track: The trouble with '1/2 monster class levels count as spellcaster levels' is that, yes, it's a big hit in power (this doesn't bug me that much), but also that it's virtually the opposite as the original idea, in terms of intent and practice. You're not necessarily keeping the casters relevant, and you're creating a lot of redundancy through the lower levels, where you've already (or you're already supposed to, anyways) have some facsimile of casting by way of SLAs and class features.

    So that's basically where we were at in the discussion of the issue. Nine's idea does make a degree of sense, but there's no use adopting it if we're ultimately creating as many issues as we're striving to do away with. So we're trying to see if there's flaws or what would work optimally before we jump the gun.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-09 at 10:59 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    In that case, you should either take that up with the horned devil's creator or start your own thread. It's kindof rude to just come in here and say "Yo, I think your monster isn't right so I'ma make my own, kthx."
    What I meant was mine could be an alternative to the other one but if you want I shall abondon work on it.
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  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    In general, Hazzard, our nebulous aim is to make a playable monster class for every monster in official material. Generally speaking, anyways. So if a monster is already posted, we don't want to use up time & resources to make the same monster again, unless the original is really sucky. Our time & yours is better spent making new monsters, so that when someone comes to the thread looking to play a [insert monster here] for his campaign, there's a higher chance they'll find what they're looking for.

    Given that Gorgon is one of our better homebrewers, it would probably make more sense & get a faster result to just communicate what you see as the problems of the class, than to make the horned devil yourself.

    In any case, since you're just getting into the thread, I'd recommend starting with a much smaller creature. CR 5 or so would be a good start, just to figure out our standards. The first few posts of the thread have a few place where we outline stuff like "New homebrewers are encouraged to pick low-CR monsters, and not to attempt to tackle epic tier (20+ level) classes from the outset." - and the Cornugon, as a CR16, makes for a big job.

    As stated in the second post of the thread: "New homebrewers are encouraged to try their hand at a smaller class before getting into a 15+ CR monster. The process of a new player figuring out how to go about this homebrew, tackling a full 15 (or more) levels of content, balancing those 15 levels and then making all the necessary changes is often exhausting and frustrating for both the homebrewer and those critiquing the monster." We've just had too many people come in, start the big monster, and wind up spending weeks revising it to standards. Doing that for a monster we've already done would be redundant and doubly frustrating for everyone involved.

    In any event, if you want to do a replacement monster class, you should run it by the people in charge of the thread (Gorgondantess and myself) first, and explain just what changes you'd want to make and why. We don't make alternate monster classes, I'm afraid.

  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Revisions have been made for both the Gargoyle and Lodestone Marauder.

    On the subject of redoing older monsters, once I've finished either the Gargoyle or the Lodestone Marauder (or possibly both), would my old Xill need redoing? I'd certainly be happy to try under the new guidelines.

  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    The Xill could stand to be updated. I'm suspicious about the issues of the extra arms - If I go barbarian at 2nd level, I can get four attacks in on a charge, with rage bonus to strength. So, assuming 18 str to start, that's, what, +10 to hit for each, 1d4+6 damage each? I then go warblade for tiger claw maneuvers to eat face.

    And, pounce/multiattack shenanigans aside, it looks a touch boring to play. I mean, all you're doing for 6 levels (80ish encounters) is, what, declaring standard attack, getting a full attack/charge where possible, and crossing your fingers for paralysis and/or improved grab?
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-09 at 12:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    The Xill could stand to be updated. I'm suspicious about the issues of the extra arms - If I go barbarian at 2nd level, I can get four attacks in on a charge, with rage bonus to strength. So, assuming 18 str to start, that's, what, +10 to hit for each, 1d4+6 damage each? I then go warblade for tiger claw maneuvers to eat face.

    And, pounce/multiattack shenanigans aside, it looks a touch boring to play. I mean, all you're doing for 6 levels (80ish encounters) is, what, declaring standard attack, getting a full attack/charge where possible, and crossing your fingers for paralysis and/or improved grab?
    And that is precisely why I want to have a chance to update it. The Xill was fine when we were pumping out flavourless abilities that stuck to the original monster's, but it is now outdated. I want to fix issues regarding extra arms and make it exciting to play. I have already got some ideas, though it will have to wait until I have less than two monsters on the go (unless you would trust me with a third, which I do not necessarily advise).

    I've just had a great idea to sort the Gargoyle's movement speed choices out, by the way, which I think you'll like because it drops Burrow and Swim is reduced to a variant with a few other (flavour-appropriate) bonuses to compensate for it being a weaker choice.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    With Kyuubi having dropped her, is anyone else interested in picking up/finishing Illurien?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    With Kyuubi having dropped her, is anyone else interested in picking up/finishing Illurien?
    I'd like to give it a try once I've redone the Corrupted Template, but being new to the project I'll understand if someone more experienced is needed...

  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Dunno. Smiting isn't that interesting, and doesn't really change up the playstyle. Most of the augments listed don't do much, either.
    Okay, yeah, Smite is boring Never mind then.
    Corrupted Tooth and Nail: With level 1 in the class, your natural attacks deal vile damage. You can opt out of the vile damage to corrupt your enemy with each natural attack. This gives them a cumulative -1 to AC and a -1 to all saves each time you deal the damage.
    I like it. Perhaps allow them to choose between Bodily Corruption (-1 AC and saves) and Mental Corruption (-1 spell resistance and/or spell/power/SLA/PLA penetration and/or save DCs)?

    What type of penalty is it? (Probably profane? Though I could see a case for circumstance, inherent, and morale as well...somebody more experienced than me needs to answer this one! XD). Should probably also specify a duration (indefinite, like Vile damage, I assume), and how it can be removed/healed (only on sanctified ground, also like Vile damage?)
    Depraved Frenzy: At second level, you enter a twitching mad frenzy for several heartbeats, catching foes off guard. As a swift action declared before you make any full-round, move or standard actions, you gain the ability to make an additional standard action that round, but until the end of your next turn, you take double damage and for any saving throws or skill checks you roll, you must reroll and take the lower result.
    Awesome for any caster or martial adept, particularly sorcerers with Wings of Cover and Warblades with d12 hit dice and counters to parry/negate attacks and make Concentration checks for saves. I have no idea how powerful this would work out to be in practice, however. My general feeling is that it's approximately balanced, however. Double damage and low-reroll saves is taking a pretty serious risk. Maybe add a per-encounter or not-two-rounds-in-a-row limit?

    You might also make this a free action once per round (X/encounter, or wait X rounds to use again) that lets you use two swift actions this turn. Would still give them an extra spell, but lower level barring metamagic rods, and martial characters would get an extra boost or counter rather than an extra strike. On the other hand, I know extra swift actions are almost impossible to get (the only way I know of is Ruby Knight Vindicator), and I may not be fully versed in the shenanigans people could get up to with them. Who knows, they might be more problematic than standards. *shrug* Just throwing another idea out there.
    Vile Power: At third level, you gain a spell like ability with the evil, infernal, darkness, necromancy, abyssal or vile type or school. You can use a standard action to deliver this SLA alongside a natural attack, provided it is a spell that requires an attack roll (including ray and touch attacks). The spell takes effect after the attack damage and effects are calculated, so the saving throw uses any penalties imposed as a consequence of Corrupted Tooth and Nail.
    Should specify the level of spell available, and if/when you get to switch it out. Otherwise, looks good.

    Maybe give it the ability to add it to a natural attack as an attack action once per round at a certain point? So they can use it 1/round and still full-attack. (Maybe 15HD, or SLA level*3 HD, or 4-5 HD after completing the class...I dunno. Just a thought anyway.)

    Hope that sparks some thought.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-02-09 at 05:16 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    ...

    Quasi-God
    • Don't love divine spark. Doesn't fit every god, either in the blasting or the healing departments (I don't see Kord throwing lightning, or Nerull healing).

      Split it into a choice of 3 (attack, defend & heal). Better? I'm open to more if you can think of any.
    • Regardless, rather than write "deals 1d6/2HD damage.", it'd be much cleaner to write it out in full.
    • Ditto for "Additionally, 1/2HD each day", which is confusing at first read.

      Adjusted.
    • Fledgling Portfolio:
      • You refer to the creature as a god. Are they really? AFAIK, they don't qualify as such until they have a divine rank.

        Adjusted.
      • You use it's instead of its, second paragraph.


      Done.
    • State that the choice of resistance is made once.
    • Broken list tags under Aura of Divinity.

      Done.
    • Aura of Resolve is incredibly strong. A simple +3 to all allies' saves, attack rolls, skills and ability checks at 9th level?

      Changed it to a choice of which one. Also made it less powerful.
    • I don't even understand how Weaken Aura works. What if enemies don't have that many levels?

      Added something and lowered the number of Neg Levels.
    • The Demiplane seems badly abusable. Combat not going your way? Head to the demiplane to wait out the negative spell effects, or let your friends scamper through.

      Effects carry on once you leave. Made the immediate action 1/day, which even so leaves your allies without you there. To get in or out any other way you now need a full round round action plus a standard action to open and close it, which means barring a belt of battle etc. you have to leave it open for at least a turn so not viable in combat really.
    • Honestly, this creature, along with the Pandorym, is so 'out there' that I don't feel, even after going through it ability by ability, that I have a good grasp of it or where it stands. I admit I'm perplexed.


    I tried to make it as open as possible. It's along similar lines to the Monster of Legend; it's customisable & versatile so it can fit as many characters as possible since there are so many Godly possibilities. Hopefully however it's more interesting than the MoL.

    ...
    In addition I've changed the method of acquiring spell etc. progression so it's capped at 3 levels worth. I've added an "if they're willing to answer" clause to the Contact Other Plane ability.

    Thought's now?
    Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2011-02-09 at 05:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Okay, yeah, Smite is boring Never mind then.

    I like it. Perhaps allow them to choose between Bodily Corruption (-1 AC and saves) and Mental Corruption (-1 spell resistance and/or spell/power/SLA/PLA penetration and/or save DCs)?

    What type of penalty is it? (Probably profane? Though I could see a case for circumstance, inherent, and morale as well...somebody more experienced than me needs to answer this one! XD). Should probably also specify a duration (indefinite, like Vile damage, I assume), and how it can be removed/healed (only on sanctified ground, also like Vile damage?)

    Awesome for any caster or martial adept, particularly sorcerers with Wings of Cover and Warblades with d12 hit dice and counters to parry/negate attacks and make Concentration checks for saves. I have no idea how powerful this would work out to be in practice, however. My general feeling is that it's approximately balanced, however. Double damage and low-reroll saves is taking a pretty serious risk. Maybe add a per-encounter or not-two-rounds-in-a-row limit?

    You might also make this a free action once per round (X/encounter, or wait X rounds to use again) that lets you use two swift actions this turn. Would still give them an extra spell, but lower level barring metamagic rods, and martial characters would get an extra boost or counter rather than an extra strike. On the other hand, I know extra swift actions are almost impossible to get (the only way I know of is Ruby Knight Vindicator), and I may not be fully versed in the shenanigans people could get up to with them. Who knows, they might be more problematic than standards. *shrug* Just throwing another idea out there.

    Should specify the level of spell available, and if/when you get to switch it out. Otherwise, looks good.

    Maybe give it the ability to add it to a natural attack as an attack action once per round at a certain point? So they can use it 1/round and still full-attack. (Maybe 15HD, or SLA level*3 HD, or 4-5 HD after completing the class...I dunno. Just a thought anyway.)

    Hope that sparks some thought.
    I was just putting the ideas out there. It's up to someone else to fix them up & use them if they so wish.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    @Hyudra: And yours were better than mine I was just commenting/brainstorming, mostly. It's Markus' creature in any case. Hopefully he'll find some of our back-and-forth useful, or at least it'll spark some idea of his own.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    On the topic of fixing our old monsters, should I go back at some point and fix the Rukanyr and Roving Mauler (I think the Nashrou is recent enough that it sticks to current guidelines)?

    EDIT: Actually, Roving Mauler is post-Osle, so it's probably fine, at least for now.
    Last edited by Makiru; 2011-02-09 at 09:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Medusa

    Monster Class
    Monster Manual, SRD

    Class
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    HD: D8
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+0|+0|+2|+0| Medusa Body, Snakebite, Slither/Stride, Serpentine Stance, +1 Dex
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0| Chthonic Eye, Seductive Hiss, +1 Dex, +1 Cha
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1| Snake Nest, Serpentine Stance II, Undulating Defense, +1 Dex,
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+1| Chthonic Flash, Cold Blooded, +1 Dex, +1 Cha
    5th|+3|+1|+4|+1| Strangle, Serpentine Stance III, Force Gaze, +1 Dex
    6th|+4|+2|+5|+2| Chthonic Domination, Coil, +1 Dex, +1 Cha
    7th|+5|+2|+5|+2| Gaze of the Gorgoness, Medusa's Kiss, Serpentine Stance IV, +1 Dex
    [/table]
    Skill Points 6+Int per level
    Class Skills: Appraise, Balance, Climb, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering or Local), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Tumble.

    Proficiencies: The Medusa is proficient with simple and martial weapons, and with her own natural weapons.

    Medusa Body: The Medusa loses all other racial bonuses and gains Monstrous Humanoid traits, granting her Darkvision out to 60'. Medusae are initially medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30', possessing a 'snakes' natural weapon that delivers 1d4 + Str mod damage and injects poison (see Snakebite ability, below). This weapon deals piercing damage. The Medusa has natural armor equal to her con modifier.

    Medusae speak Common and Serpentine (A medusa-only language using only their snakes' gestures to communicate) as their starting language and gain additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.

    Attribute Bonus: The Medusa gains +1 Dex with every level in the class and +1 Cha with every even numbered level in the class, for a total bonus of +7 Dex and +3 Cha at 7th level.

    Snakebite: The first level Medusa features a mane of venomous snakes that protrude from her scalp, coiling and snapping at those who come in reach. The 'snakes' natural weapon deals damage as described in Medusa Body, above, with a crit range of 19-20. Each successful attack with the snakes delivers an injury based poison. The poison allows a fortitude save, with a DC of 10 + Medusa HD + Medusa's Con. On a failed saving throw, the victim takes attribute damage based on the Medusa's HD as described on the table below:
    {table=head]HD|Initial Damage|Secondary Damage
    1|1d4 Str|1d4 Str
    3|1d4 Str|1d6 Str
    6|1d6 Str|1d6 Str
    9|1d6 Str|1d8 Str
    12|1d8 Str|2d6 Str
    15|2d6 Str|2d6 Str
    18|2d6 Str|3d6 Str[/table]
    The coils of snakes offer the Medusa several sets of eyes and (to a lesser extent) ears that operate independently of her primary focus. She rolls twice for any spot or search checks, taking the higher result, and gains Alertness as a bonus feat. In the event that the Medusa cannot use her primary set of eyes, she loses this benefit, but can continue to use her snakes to sense her surroundings. In doing so, she suffers a -2 penalty to spot and search checks. If she has her serpents concealed or blinded in some fashion, conversely, she simply loses the alertness feat and the benefit of the spot/search rerolls until such a time as her snakes can sense the world around them again.

    Slither/Stride: At first level, the Medusa gains abilities stressing the particulars of her shape; Namely, whether she has legs or a serpent's lower body. Of the two stances the Medusa gains at 1st level, the first is determined by her choice between Slither (tail) vs. Stride (legs), the second is picked from the list of Serpentine Stances, described in the ability entry below.

    Pick one of the following:
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    • Stride - The Medusa sports two humanoid legs. She may wear boots and clothing intended for the lower body, and gains a bonus to disguise checks to appear as a medium sized humanoid equal to her HD. The Medusa gains the following stance:
      Asp's Bite: Stance. Grants the Medusa a 10% chance that melee attacks will miss her. Under the effects of this stance, she gains the ability to make an attack of opportunity when an opponent attacks her and fails to hit. These attacks of opportunity count against her maximum for the round.
      .
    • Slither - The Medusa has a serpent's tail from the waist down, rather than legs. She is counted as a four legged creature for the purposes of being tripped or making balance checks, but cannot wear boots or legwear. Aside from the resistance to being tripped, there are no immediate benefits to having the tail, but the tail complements a number of Medusa stances and class features. The Medusa gains the following stance:
      Swaying Cobra: Stance. Grants the Medusa the ability to make a 5' step in response to any 5' step made by an opponent within 15' of her. She may make a 10' step where she would normally make a 5' step on her turn, but doing so requires a swift action and cancels Swaying Cobra Stance.


    Serpentine Stance: At first level, the Medusa gains a stance, chosen from the list below:
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    • Darting Serpent: Stance. Grants the Medusa a cumulative bonus of +5' base movement speed at the end of each of her turns, starting on any turn where initiative is rolled. This movement speed bonus accumulates to a maximum of 50% the Medusa's base speed (so a Medusa with 30' base speed could get a total benefit of +15' movement). On a charge, provided she had at least 5' of accumulated movement, the Medusa may drop this stance. Doing so allows the Medusa to full attack on a charge and carry the target 5' in the direction of the charge for every 5' of bonus movement the Medusa had accumulated. The Medusa gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her attack rolls for every 5' of bonus movement she had before charging.
      This stance and the accumulated benefits are lost if a foe makes a successful attack roll against the Medusa or successfully affects the Medusa with a combat maneuver (such as tripping, bull rushing, grappling the Medusa). The stance and all accumulative benefits are lost when combat ends.
      .
    • Ouroboros Coils: Stance. The Medusa moves with sibilant grace, the serpents that wreath her head simultaneously moving in hypnotizing arcs and loops that distract attention and echo her words with the visual display, giving her an almost hypnotic presence. While in the Ouroboros Coils Stance, the Medusa may attempt to demoralize as a swift action.

      While the Medusa is in the Ouroboros Coils stance, opponents within 15' of her are more liable to cower, cringe or go to excess in shielding their gaze from the undulating Medusa. Demoralized, shaken, panicked, cowering or frightened opponents within 15' of the Medusa retain the status effects until they move more than 15' away from her or she ends the stance, at which point the durations count down as normal. Opponents within 15' of the Medusa who choose to make a reflex save (as opposed to voluntarily failing) render themselves flatfooted until the start of their next turn, regardless of success or failure.
      .
    • Rising Anaconda: Stance. Grants a climb speed equal to the Medusa's base speed, with the restriction that she must end her turn in a position where she isn't still climbing. A tree branch or ledge would be fine, but clinging to a wall or hanging off a ledge would not. If the Medusa chose Slither rather than Stride, and there is freedom to climb all the way around the object in question, (such as a tree or pillar), the Medusa may take 20 on the climb check.

      In Rising Anaconda Stance, provided she is at a point higher than her target, the Medusa may leap down to her target. This is a charge, but imposes no AC penalty on the Medusa, ignores difficult terrain between herself and the target, and does not double the Medusa's movement for the purposes of charge distance. A Rising Anaconda Stance charge forces the target to make their choice of a reflex save or a balance check, against a DC of (10 + Medusa HD + Medusa's Str mod or Dex mod, her choice) or fall prone. The prone condition is inflicted after the Medusa moves to a point adjacent to the target, but before the Medusa delivers her charge attacks.

    Adopting a Serpentine Stance (Slither/Stride stances count as Serpentine Stances for the purposes of these rules of use) requires a swift action and can not be used in conjunction with other stances (such as Initiator Stances). The stance has no duration. Only one stance may be maintained at a time.

    Chthonic Eye: Starting at second level, the Medusa may turn the supernatural power of her gaze to an enemy, turning some, most or all of them to stone. Use of Chthonic Eye is a standard action, with many of the drawbacks of a gaze attack. It targets a single foe within 25', with an additional 5' of range for every two HD of the Medusa. This attack requires line of sight to the target, and miss chances for concealment apply as is normal for gazes.

    The target must make a Reflex Save against a DC of 10 + Medusa's HD + Medusa's Cha. On a failure, consult the table below:
    {table=head]Failed by...|Result|Penalty
    1|Fatigued|1
    2-3|Exhausted|2
    4-5|Slowed & Exhausted|4
    6-7|Dazed|6
    8+|Petrified|-[/table]
    Fatigue, exhaustion, slow and dazed conditions persist for 1d3 rounds, but the duration does not decline on any turn the target is in the Medusa's line of sight. Petrifaction lasts a number of hours equal to the Medusa's HD multiplied by the Medusa's Charisma modifier, and the duration may be reset by another use of Chthonic Eye on the target. Foes who fail another reflex save against Chthonic eye whilst still suffering from a previously applied effect count the result of their save as being lower. Such foes subtract the penalty value listed in the rightmost column of the table above from their save result. This change is made only after the save is deemed successful or not, and therefore does not determine the success or failure of Chthonic Eye, just the effect that is applied.
    Medusae are immune to the effect of their own gaze.

    When the Medusa reaches 4HD, all opponents count as though they had a result 1 lower than it was. This increases by a further -1 at 8HD and every 4HD thereafter. This does not affect the DC (and as a consequence, does not affect the chance of saving against the effect), but only the effect that is applied.

    At 8HD, the duration of the Medusa's petrifaction doubles, and the duration of other effects now persists for 2d3 rounds.

    At 16HD, the duration of petrifaction becomes 'permanent'.

    Seductive Hiss: A second level Medusa may, as a move action, force her opponents to make their choice of their sense motive or Will save against a DC of 10 + the Medusa's HD + the Medusa's Cha mod. The initial save is made with a +2 bonus on the part of the victim, but the Medusa increases the DC by a cumulative +2 with each consecutive turn she makes the attempt. Beating the opponent's result renders the opponent beguiled for 6 rounds. A beguiled opponent is entranced by the Medusa, caught in an almost hypnotic state, and suffers faintness of heart when striving to strike her down with spell or sorcery. Foes have a -4 to hit the Medusa if another valid target is in range. Similarly, any spell, spell like ability or ability (such as a breath weapon) that would affect the Medusa has its DC lowered by 2. This includes spells with the Medusa as an explicit target and area of effect attacks with the Medusa in the area. Any time the Medusa attacks or targets the victim with an spell or ability, the remaining duration for the effect is either halved or reduced by 2 rounds. A victim that has been Beguiled cannot be beguiled again for 24 hours.

    If the Medusa is in Ouroboros Coils Stance, she may use Seductive Hiss as a Swift action, and the duration is extended to 12 rounds. Exiting the stance is treated as though the Medusa struck the foe.

    At 6HD, the Medusa can use Suggestion 1/day on any subject she has beguiled, and subjects do not remember the captivation of the suggestion.

    At 10HD, the Medusa can use Dominate Person 1/day per 6HD she has, but is restricted to using it on beguiled subjects.

    The Seductive Hiss, Suggestion and Dominate Person effects are extraordinary abilities that only affects humanoids that can understand the Medusa.

    Snake Nest: At third level, the Medusa is far more adept at using her snakes in combat. She gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, or a bonus feat of her choice that she qualifies for if she already has Weapon Finesse, and gains the ability to use dexterity in the place of strength to determine damage for her snakes attack. Further, the Medusa gets a free attack with her Snakes against any opponent that is in her space at the start of her turn.

    Serpentine Stance II: At third level, the Medusa gains an additional stance, chosen from the list below:
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    • Stalking Serpent - Stance. The Medusa extends her critical threat range by one step (such as from 19-20 to 18-20) at the end of each of her turns. In addition, for the duration of the stance, her critical multipliers for all of her attacks are extended by one step (such as from x2 to x3). The benefits accumulate until the Medusa scores a critical hit, at which point the critical threat range and critical damage multiplier reset to normal and are free to accumulate again. This stance can only be initiated after initiative rolls have been made and ends when the encounter does.
      .
    • Snake in the Grass - Stance. The Medusa gains a bonus to hide and spot checks equal to her Charisma modifier. Further, when the hidden Medusa is spotted, she retains concealment benefits for one round.
      .
    • Mamba's Pursuit - Stance. You designate a foe within 20' as your turn ends. If that foe moves more than 20' away from you before the start of your next turn, you lunge forward to fill the space they just departed and are free to deliver an attack of opportunity if they decide to continue moving.
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    • Serpentine Stance: any stance in found in the list under Serpentine Stance, above. (Darting Serpent, Viper's Fangs, Ouroboros Coils or Rising Anaconda).

    Undulating Defense: The Medusa, starting at third level, can take ten on tumble checks at any time, even when threatened, and suffers no penalties for dodging past multiple opponents, as she expertly contorts, feints and slips through their number.

    Chthonic Flash: A fourth level Medusa can rip a veil, hood or mask from her face to release a powerful surge of energy from her eyes, turning a number of enemies to solid stone. For these purposes, the Medusa gains a Chthonic Charge every hour, to a maximum equal to her HD divided by 4. By spending a Chthonic Charge, the Medusa turns her gaze into a cone extending 30'. All targets within the area must save or be affected in the manner described in Chthonic Eye, above.

    Cold Blooded: A fourth level Medusa is moved by little besides her own desires. The Medusa can make a reroll in the event of a failed saves against an emotion-based spell, drug, disease or similar effect. Emotional effects that Cold Blooded might help prevent might include rage, fear, despair, lust or panic.

    Strangle: Medusae, from fifth level onward, can capitalize on an unaware or helpless opponent's weakness, strangling the life out of them with her mane of snakes, hands and/or tail. The Medusa is considered to have Improved Grab with any and every melee range weapon when attacking a foe that is denied their dexterity bonus to AC or a foe that she is flanking. Further, she may now use her Dexterity modifier in the place of her strength modifier when grappling.

    An opponent that is grappling with the Medusa immediately begins suffocating. However, as the suffocation is forced on the victim rather than being a more or less passive environmental effect, the victim only has air to hold their breath for 1 round per 2 points of Constitution they have. Further, the DC to save against suffocation is increased by the Medusa's Str mod or Con mod, whichever is higher. Each time the Medusa succeeds in a grapple check against the victim (including the check to initiate the grapple) she reduces the amount of rounds the opponent can hold his breath by 1 and increases the DC of all further suffocation checks by that foe by +2 (this is cumulative).

    If the Medusa has a tail (such as the tail option in Slither/Stride, above), each successful grapple check reduces the amount of rounds an opponent has air for by 2, instead, she deals 1d6 + Str bonus points of nonlethal damage each round she grapples and she counts herself as being one size larger for the purposes of grapple checks.

    Serpentine Stance III: At fifth level, the Medusa gains an additional stance, chosen from the list below:
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    • Snake Oil: Stance. For the duration, any time the Medusa takes a move action, ranged and melee attacks directed at her suffer a 25% miss chance, until the end of her turn. If she takes a full round move action, attacks against her suffer a 50% miss chance until the end of her turn, followed by a 25% chance miss chance until the start of her next turn. This stance can only be initiated after initiative rolls have been made and ends when the encounter does.
      .
    • White Fangs Striking: Stance. Attacks of the Medusa that deliver piercing damage, for the duration of this stance, cause the enemy to bleed profusely. At the end of any round in which a struck opponent took a standard or move action, that foe takes bleeding damage equal to the Medusa's Dex modifier plus an additional point of damage for every time she has struck them with a piercing weapon while in this stance. The bleeding damage ceases if the victim goes three rounds without being struck by a White Fangs Striking Stance enhanced piercing weapon, if they take a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity to staunch the blood, or if they make a heal check as a standard action to stop the bleeding (DC is 10 + Medusa HD + Medusa Dex bonus).
      .
    • Viper's Fangs: Stance. Grants the Medusa +1 to her poison DC and +1 competence bonus to attack rolls using her snakes. Successfully striking an opponent with her snakes increases these benefits for subsequent attacks against the same foe, doubling the bonus to the poison DC each time (ie. +2 for the second, +4 for the third, etc) and increases the competence bonus to attack rolls by a further +1. Further, the Medusa may make iterative attacks when making an attack action with just her snakes and she may add the Viper's Fangs Stance bonus to attack rolls to her BAB for the purposes of determining how many iterative attacks she may make. (ie. If the Medusa has a +5 BAB, and entered the Viper's Fangs Stance with the +1 inherent bonus, she could make an attack at +6 and another attack at +1.)
      If the Medusa misses an attack with her snakes, attacks a different target or changes stances, all accumulated bonuses of the Viper's Fangs stance are lost.
      .
    • Serpentine Stance II: any stance found under Serpentine Stride II. (Stalking Serpent, Snake in the Grass or Mamba's Pursuit).
      .
    • Serpentine Stance: any stance in found under Serpentine Stance, above. (Darting Serpent, Viper's Fangs, Ouroboros Coils or Rising Anaconda).


    Force Gaze: Starting at fifth level, a Medusa can use strength to force an opponent to meet her eyes, gripping their chin or hair and wrenching their head in her direction. A Medusa that is grappling a foe or otherwise sharing a space with a foe can make an opposed Strength roll against her target as a standard action. If she beats the target's result, she may use Chthonic Eye against her target, with a circumstantial bonus on the reflex save DC equal to the amount she beat her opponent's Strength check.

    Use of Force Gaze means that Chthonic Eye cannot be prevented by the usual means of avoiding gaze attacks, such as eye protection, attention focused solely on reflective surfaces and concealment.

    Chthonic Domination: Starting at sixth level, the Medusa can spend a Chthonic Charge to adjust the DC of her Chthonic Eye and Chthonic Flash abilities, adding a +2 competence bonus. She may do this after the save has been rolled, but before the effects take place. In doing so, the Medusa may adjust the result to a higher condition or make a successful save into a failure. Any time the Medusa petrifies a foe challenging enoguh to grant experience to her, she gains a Chthonic Charge, though never more than her maximum (as described under Chthonic Flash).

    Coil: At sixth level, the reptilian Medusa, with her flexible serpentine nature, can maintain two different stances at once, provided at least one of the stances is from the Medusa monster class.

    Gaze of the Gorgoness: Starting at seventh level, the Medusa may focus her gaze over an area, afflicting any who enter her line of sight. Use of Gaze of the Gorgoness is a full round action, rendering the Medusa flat footed. She draws a cone out to 30', excluding any tiles against which she does not have line of sight. Those starting, moving through and/or ending their turn in the area of effect must make a reflex save, with those who only moved through the cone gaining a +4 save. Failure on the save results in petrifaction, using the same duration noted under Chthonic Eye.

    Medusa's Kiss: A seventh level Medusa may reverse the effect of her petrifaction (and only her petrifaction) with a kiss.

    Serpentine Stance IV: A seventh level Medusa may choose two new stances from any of the previous Serpentine Stance lists.


    Comments
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    Haven't decided on a picture yet. A friend picked out the one I used, above, but have a look at the following and let me know which you like & don't like:

    So, the Medusa. I went a pretty unconventional route, here, as this Medusa is stance based and the stone gaze isn't the be-all and end-all of the class.

    The Medusa here is close to the rogue in general design direction, which I feel is pretty in line with the portrayal of the Medusa in 3.5 D&D canon, who tend to like being bandit queens or skulking around ruins. In the end, you've got a bit going for you as a grappler, and your stances and poison will assist you in getting that done.

    Failing that, or if you want to down and dirty wrasslin' to take a backseat, you've got your petrifying gaze, which you can use as a cone, boost for added effect or direct as an area effect to deny sections of the battlefield to your foes.

    The stances came about because I had so many ideas on what the Medusa could do in terms of stalking or mobility, and I found myself searching for something more or less active, decision-wise, at early levels, beyond "Do I use Chthonic Eye or not?" So you're making calls on which stance to use from level 1 onward, and as you find yourself getting gaze attacks, grappling becoming more viable and other little tricks making themselves apparent, your combat options open up nicely.

    And just as a note, for those wondering, 'Chthonic' means 'of the Underworld' in literal translation from the greek roots, but roughly (as I understand it) breaks down to 'cursed earth'. In myth, Medusa's parents were originally born of the underworld, and the effect of her gaze matches well with the 'cursed earth' motif, so that's why I named some of the abilities what I did, hard as it is to spell or pronounce.

    Changelog
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    Changes, February 10th, 2011
    • Fixed Serpentine Stance III, where it said it was gained at third level instead of fifth.
    • Changed the feint option of Force Gaze so the victim uses their choice of sense motive or will save.
    • Stressed that the bonus feat that you get in Snake Nest needs to be qualified for, if you're not getting Weapon Finesse.

    Changes, February 14th, 2011:
    • I'd forgotten to give the Medusa poison numbers for 1st level. Now deals 1d4 initial and 1d4 secondary.
    • Seductive Hiss revised. It now gives the enemy penalties to hit (or to DCs) if they would strike the Medusa and there's another target in range. It doesn't require as hefty an action anymore, but it is a standard cha-based DC that allows victims to use their choice of will save or sense motive, so it's less reliable to use.

    Changes, February 24th, 2011:
    • Stances are changed. There's no longer a restriction on initiating stances only after initiative rolls have been made. Abilities that would be broken as a consequence have a note that they can only be used in combat (paraphrasing).
    • Stalking Serpent clarified as to what 'one step' means as far as advancing critical threat range and critical damage).
    • Snake in the Grass reworded to state "when the medusa is spotted, she gains the benefits of concealment for 1 round." (thanks @ Gorgon for the wording)
    • White Fangs Striking nerfed. It added dex to damage, but that was removed as it stacks with Snake Nest's dex to damage. Used Gorgon's suggested wording of "attacks that deal piercing damage" over "piercing weapons"
    • Removed ability to bluff enemies as an option in Force Gaze.

    Changes, February 27th, 2011:
    • Fixed changelog where changes were listed as taking place in 2010. Freaking time: pain in the arse.
    • Viper's Fangs stance moved to Serpentine Stance III
    • Clarified DCs. Darting serpent is circumstance, Force gaze is circumstance, chthonic domination is competence
    • Clarified text under Chthonic Eye. Made 16HD bonus to it 'petrifaction is permanent.'
    • Clarified wording under Seductive Hiss, to make it clearer what the DC is and how it progresses
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-27 at 02:16 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #419
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Speaking picture-wise, I'm rather fond of this one.
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    According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
    "And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft

  30. - Top - End - #420
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    radmelon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    The Medusa has to be one of my favorite monsters. I'm surprised it took this long for it to be done.

    For the pic, I like the second and third of the list the best.
    Homebrew:
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Friend Of Mine
    Bloody Mess: The gift that keeps on gibbing.
    Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.

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