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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Ettercap
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    Ettercap
    Hit Dice: d8

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Ettercap Body, Web, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1, Con+1

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Dex+1, Poison, Spider Rider

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Master Climber, Spider Companion, Synergy, Dex+1, Con +1 [/table]

    Skills Points at first Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
    Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Whips, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

    Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

    Ettercap Body (Ex.): At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons that deal 1d3 + Str. Mod. damage each, a bite attack as a primary natural weapon that deals 1d8 + 2x Str. Mod. damage, a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity per Ettercap level and one point of constitution per two Ettercap levels.

    Vermin Empathy (Ex.): An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and the key ability score of Diplomacy for the purposes of this ability is Wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty. Additionally, an Ettercap can use the Handle Animal skill to train mindless creatures of the Vermin type.

    Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HD. At 5 HD, this ability changes to an at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled. This web can be broken with a Strength Check. This Strength check has a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Ettercap's HD + the Ettercap's Constitution Modifier. When occupying a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them. In addition, a use of the web ability can be used to produce either 20 Ft. of silk rope or a whip.

    Poison (Ex.): At second level, an Ettercap’s bite attack has a 50% chance to inject poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3 HD. This increases to 1d4/1d8 at six HD, 1d6/1d8 at nine HD, 1d6/2d6 at 12 HD, 1d6/2d8 at 15 HD, and 1d6/3d8 at 18 HD. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ˝ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier. In addition, an Ettercap's poison causes an opponents limbs to stiffen, decreasing their effectiveness in combat. For this reason, an Ettercap's poison inflicts a -1 penalty on the opponent's Attack Bonus, as well as an additional -1 at five HD and for every 5 HD beyond that. This penalty is cumulative.

    Spider Rider: An Ettercap gains a bonus to the Ride skill equal to 3 + the Ettercap's HD, but only when riding creatures of the Vermin type. In addition, when riding creatures of the Vermin type, an Ettercap takes no penalty from using the Ride skill without a saddle.

    Master Climber (Ex.): At third level, an Ettercap no longer has to make climb checks when it takes damage, can take actions that require both hands while climbing, and can take run and charge actions while climbing. in addition, the bonus to climb checks gained from a climb speed increases to +20.

    Synergy: At third level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with all other classes for the purposes of one of the following: Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, Favored Enemy, or Unarmed Strike damage.

    Spider Companion: At third level, an Ettercap gains a medium monstrous hunting or web-spinning spider as an animal companion. An Ettercap's effective druid level is its HD-3. Instead of a normal animal companion progression, an Ettercap may instead advance its spider's size category by one for every four effective druid levels, up to Colossal+ at 21st level. at 25th level, the spider becomes a Colossal+ sized Devastation Vermin. For every size category the spider advances, the Ettercap's effective druid level for the purposes of it's animal companion decreases by 4.

    Comments/Changelog:
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    Comments
    [MM]
    Hi! I'm new here and I've been toying with this for a week or two. I was thinking that a monstrous spider mount or companion would fit with the fluff, but it might be too powerful.
    the point of the Master Climber ability is mostly to make it so the Ettercap has a leg up on people who use spider climb and such. The bonus to climb checks is so it can climb on ceilings without having to make a check.
    The Synergy is mostly so it can multiclass into rogue or scout or something without losing damage progression.
    I'm not sure about the poison and I think it might be a bit too strong.

    I sure hope people like this.
    Changelog
    Class Written:1/27/11
    Changed Master Climber and added damage for Nat. weapons.
    Changed Poison and Wis. Bonus
    Added Spider Companion
    Tweaked Vermin Empathy, Removed Illiteracy
    Added Proficiencies, tweaked Web
    Fixed Vermin Empathy, Synergy, Changed Wis. Bonus

    Class Changed: 2/26/11
    Made it a three level class
    Changed stat bonuses again
    Messed with poison a little. Now you have to wait ten rounds to do any real damage and it's a percentile chance. So you should probably tie them up first.
    Made Vermin Empathy a bit easier to understand.
    Added Extraordinary tags.

    Class Changed 3/18/11
    Removed Ride from skill list and substituted it with the Spider Rider ability.
    Clarified how size increases affect the animal companion progression.
    Added an additional effect to poison.

    Last edited by Scio; 2011-03-18 at 02:19 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Not up to doing a review just yet, but a heads up:

    Look at the formatting of other monsters. Note how they have the monster name & image in plain view, with the class features & whatnot inside the spoilers

    Having everything inside spoilers may lead to your monster being overlooked. I'll have a review for you tonight or tomorrow, as I'm aiming to do another batch critique.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Betropper's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Here is a review, since I haven't done much on the thread lately (It's in the quote):

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Spoiler
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    Ettercap
    Hit Dice: d8

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Ettercap Body, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1, Wis+1, Illiteracy

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Poison 1d4/1d4, Web, Wis+1, Dex+1

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Poison 1d6/1d6, Dex+1, Wis+1

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Poison 1d6/2d6, Master Climber, Synergy, Dex+1, Wis+1[/table]

    Skills Points at 1rst Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
    Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

    Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

    Ettercap Body: At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons Damage? I'm assuming your using the damage scale by size, but you should probably just say the damage considering you lose all racial traits (including size), a bite attack as a primary natural weaponSame as above., a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed Hmm? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Climb a skill, not a movement?. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity and one point of wisdom per Ettercap level. May be too much, I'm not sure.

    Vermin Empathy: An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and Diplomacy is based off of wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty.

    Illiteracy: as Barbarian

    Poison (Ex.): At second level, an Ettercap’s bite attack injects poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d4 Dexterity damage at 2nd level, 1d6/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3rd level, and 1d6/2d6 Dexterity damage at 4th level. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ˝ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier Whoa, too much. This could reuce a level 3 character's dex to zero easily, and this activates every bite. Also, when does the secondary damage hit?

    Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HDPeriod needed. at 5 HD, this ability changes to at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled, as the spell. This web requires a DC 20 Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC of this check increases by 1 for every 2 HD the Ettercap has. When standing on a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them.

    Master Climber: At fourth level, an Ettercap is always considered to be on solid ground while climbing, even when on ceilings Even on things like ice? May want to alter this a bit.

    Synergy: At fourth level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with other classes for the purposes of Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Unarmed Strike damage.

    It's a great start though!
    Last edited by Betropper; 2011-01-27 at 06:47 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Gideon Falcon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I think that the Tarrasque class needs to be redone. As is, it's awesome. If it was playable, it would be even awesomer.

  5. - Top - End - #155
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    I think that the Tarrasque class needs to be redone. As is, it's awesome. If it was playable, it would be even awesomer.
    I'm just so firmly against PC's being tarrasques that I can't support the idea

    Luckily for you my opinion isn't stopping anyone from making another attempt at it

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Thanks for the feedback! Just so you know there is actually such a thing as a climb speed. It's under "special"here. I wasn't really thinking about slippery surfaces when I was writing it, but it's fixed now, so thanks! It now essentially lets you treat walls and ceilings as floors. I'm not sure about doubling the bonus on climb checks, though.

    Also, I thought the poison was overpowered too, but I wasn't sure how to make it scale correctly. This is my first time making a class, so I would appreciate it if someone would help me figure it out.
    Last edited by Scio; 2011-01-27 at 07:53 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Also, I thought the poison was overpowered too, but I wasn't sure how to make it scale correctly. This is my first time making a class, so I would appreciate it if someone would help me figure it out.
    Well, that all depends on how powerful you want to poison to be. A good start would be to look at other monsters- Hyudra's wyvern is about as powerful as it should get. Also, here in Improved Monster Classes, we like to scale things by HD, not class level, so things don't end up becoming obsolete so easily just because it's a 3 level class as opposed to a 20 level class.
    Secondly, we don't give out attribute bonuses if the class isn't going to use them. Handing out all that dexterity is fine and good, but ettercap has no use for wisdom aside from skills & will saves. Instead, a good choice would be to stagger out +2 constitution.
    All in all, though, it's an excellent start. I like what you did with the tremorsense & the web.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  8. - Top - End - #158
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, on the stats thing, I thought that the wisdom bonus should go in since the actual monster has 15 Wisdom, but yeah, you're right, it might work better with +2 Con. or something.

    On the poison thing, maybe I should change it to 1d4+1d4/3 HD instead. What do you think?

  9. - Top - End - #159
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Well, on the stats thing, I thought that the wisdom bonus should go in since the actual monster has 15 Wisdom, but yeah, you're right, it might work better with +2 Con. or something.

    On the poison thing, maybe I should change it to 1d4+1d4/3 HD instead. What do you think?
    As I said, check out the wyvern. Tables are nifty.
    (In other words, don't feel the need to restrict yourself to a linear progression. Also, 6d4 strength damage is pretty ridiculous.)
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  10. - Top - End - #160
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    All right, I took your advice and tried to fix the poison and stat bonuses. The poison is one die size lower then the Wyvern because it already has a climb speed and webs.

    Also, what do you think of the spider mount/companion idea?

  11. - Top - End - #161
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    All right, I took your advice and tried to fix the poison and stat bonuses. The poison is one die size lower then the Wyvern because it already has a climb speed and webs.
    Looks OK to me. Might be a tad too high, but, eh, I can swing it.


    Also, what do you think of the spider mount/companion idea?
    I'm the one who loves giving companions as class abilities, so if you think it's a good idea, go right ahead. I'd probably just give 'em a large monstrous spider as an an animal companion with effective druid level equal to HD-3 or something, maybe giving an option to switch out for a larger monstrous spider at later date (and lower effective druid level).

    Oh, and also: I'm not a fan of giving illiteracy. Just sayin'.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2011-01-27 at 09:07 PM.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  12. - Top - End - #162
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, the reason I gave it illiteracy was that Ettercaps are meant to be pretty stupid, and honestly, what's a Spider-person who lives way out in the wilderness going to write about anyways?

  13. - Top - End - #163
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Well, the reason I gave it illiteracy was that Ettercaps are meant to be pretty stupid, and honestly, what's a Spider-person who lives way out in the wilderness going to write about anyways?
    Fungus patterns?
    Really, though, trolls don't get illiteracy. Awakened animals don't get illiteracy. I see no reasons ettercaps shouldn't. Also, I remember seeing a picture of a portly ettercap wearing a victorian suit, stovepipe hat and monocle. He's a doctor. It makes me happy.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  14. - Top - End - #164
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crafty Cultist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I didn't realize this project had been restored. Good to see it up and running again. Bleakborn is still awaiting endorsments. and I thought I'd respond to magicyop's thoughts on the class

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    Bleakborn: Again, I like it, it may not be perfect, but I think it deserves to go on the list.
    I'll remind everyone, we're not trying for perfection. While that would be nice, classes should be added to the list as long as they are relatively playable, fun, and balanced. Bleakborn seems to be this for the most part, so I'll give it my vote.
    With that being said, there are some things you will probably want to look at.
    1. I'm really not sure why you're doing Heat-draining aura the way you are doing it. Why not simply make it deal cold damage, and with its "Heat Siphon" ability, the healing would come naturally? This whole fast healing business seems extraneous.
    2. Fourth, not forth.
    3. Brittle Strike: Again, no scaling into epic levels? Monkman said it earlier, but these are used in epic games very often. Just go by your established pattern: 1 dex damage for every 7 HD you have.
    4. Watch the capitalization, all ability names should be capitalized.
    5. Ice Ward: Remember that a fourth level bleakborn may not have 4 HD? Just say that it's DR 1/- for every 4 HD they have.
    6. Frost Nova: Tough to say what this is. It can't decide between being a spell-like type thing and being a breath weapon. Why not give it a couple more times per day, but say that instead of every x rounds, the bleakborn can use it when they are at their coldest, aka, low health? Just a thought.
    1. I choose to make the heat draining aura seperate from Heat siphon because I felt that it could be unbalancing to have it work based simply upon the amount of creatures present. A low level bleakborn could gain massive amounts of healing by sorrounding itself with weak creatures while a high level bleakborn would have a negligible amount of healing when facing a single powerful foe. I simply thought that a flat number would be more balanced.
    2. Noted, and changed
    3. Point taken. The ability now scales every 7 HD beyond 3
    4. I capitalize the first word of the ability names but not the others. It's the stanard I've developed and I dont think it needs changing. If it bothers you, I'll change it for future classes, but I don't want to go through all my old monsters just to change the puctuation
    5. Ice ward changed to DR 1 per 4HD
    6. Frost nova is a supernatural ability, but I wouldn't class it as a breath wepon. Its more like the bleakborn bringing its heat draining abilities to the fullest. Rather than uses per day would it work better with a 2d4 round cool down time, during which their heat draining aura ceases to fuction as they have overused its power?


    Great to see this up and running again
    Last edited by Crafty Cultist; 2011-01-28 at 01:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Malbolge View Post
    Listen to the Crafy one. He speaks the truth, except when he doesn't which may still be the truth hidden behind a veil of crafty craftiness.

    Or something.

  15. - Top - End - #165
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Ok, I removed Illiteracy, added Spider Companion, added whip proficiency. I also tweaked the Vermin Empathy ability so you can actually train your companion, and the Web ability so you can also produce ropes and whips.
    Last edited by Scio; 2011-01-27 at 10:31 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #166
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Ettercap
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    Ettercap
    Hit Dice: d8

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Ettercap Body, Vermin Empathy, Dex+1

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Web, Dex+1, Con+1

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Poison, Dex+1

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Master Climber, Spider Companion, Synergy, Dex+1, Con+1 [/table]
    Ettercaps are CR 3.

    Skills Points at 1rst Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
    Class Skills: The Ettercap’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Proficiencies: The Ettercap gains proficiency with Light Armor, Nets, Whips, Its own natural weapons, and all simple weapons.

    Ettercap Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Ettercap.

    Ettercap Body: At first level an Ettercap loses all racial traits and gains the following: Aberration type, Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision, two claw attacks as secondary natural weapons that deal 1d3 damage each, a bite attack as a primary natural weapon that deals 1d8 damage, a base land speed of 30 feet, and a climb speed equal to their base land speed. Additionally, an Ettercap gains one point of dexterity per Ettercap level and one point of constitution per two Ettercap levels. Ettercaps have lowish constitution, they're supposed to be ambush predators not brawlers.

    Vermin Empathy: An Ettercap can influence creatures of the Vermin type with a Diplomacy check. For the purposes of this ability, an Ettercap is considered to have 3+HD ranks in Diplomacy, and Diplomacy is based off of wisdom. This can be used to influence the attitude of a Monstrous Vermin at a -4 penalty. Additionally, an Ettercap can use the Handle Animal skill to train mindless creatures. Might want to restrict this to vermin, undead and golems are mindless too.

    Poison (Ex.): At third level, an Ettercap’s bite attack injects poison on a successful hit. This poison does 1d4/1d6 Dexterity damage at 3 HD. This increases to 1d6/1d6 at six HD, 1d6/1d8 at nine HD, 1d6/2d6 at 12 HD, 1d8/2d6 at 15 HD, and 2d6/2d6 at 18 HD. This poison has a fortitude saving throw of 10 + ˝ the Ettercap’s HD + the Ettercap’s Constitution modifier.

    Webs (Ex.): An Ettercap can spin webs as a standard action a number of times per day equal to twice its HD at 5 HD, this ability changes to at will. These webs can either be thrown, in which case they function as a net, or placed, in which case they cover one five foot square. If anyone other then an Ettercap, Drider, or Monstrous Spider enters a square, they are entangled, as the spell. This web requires a DC 20 Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC of this check increases by 1 for every 2 HD the Ettercap has. When standing on a square with a web in it, an Ettercap is considered to have Tremorsense out 60’, but only for connected squares with webbing on them. In addition, a use of the web ability can be used to produce either 20 Ft. of silk rope or a whip.

    Master Climber: At fourth level, an Ettercap no longer has to make climb checks when it takes damage, can take actions that require both hands while climbing, and can take run and charge actions while climbing. in addition, the bonus on climb checks gained from a climb speed increases to +16.

    Synergy: At fourth level, an Ettercap’s class levels stack with other classes for the purposes of Sudden Strike, Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Unarmed Strike damage. All of them? So a Ettercap 4/Rogue 1/ Ninja 1/ Scout 1 would have 3d6 sneak attack, 3d6 sudden strike and whatever it is scout gets at level 5?

    Spider Companion: At fourth level, an Ettercap gains a medium monstrous hunting or web-spinning spider as an animal companion. An Ettercap's effective druid level is its HD-3. Instead of a normal animal companion progression, an Ettercap may instead advance its spider's size category by one for every four effective druid levels, up to Colossal+ at 21st level. at 25th level, the spider becomes a Colossal+ sized Devastation Vermin.

    Comments in blue.
    Last edited by Saidoro; 2011-01-27 at 11:23 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #167
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Wait, Ettercaps are CR 3? I'm using the 3.0 Monster Manual . I'm not sure constructs are trainable, but I'll fix it anyways. About Synergy; I just didn't want them pigeonholed into one class. I'll change it so you can pick one. Also, how about a compromise between Gorgondantess' suggestion and yours? Maybe +2 Wis. or something?

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Well. At least your Black Dragon looks cooler, I guess. Mine was a bit haphazard so if you wanna do it, that's cool. My only gripe is that the higher level stuff (Diseased Breath, Toxic Breath, Impure Breath) are a bit useless against a Warforged, or any of the many ways of being immune to being sickened/nauseated. Might wanna give them a secondary effect that's a bit harder to get around.
    I gave it another breath option, the Weakening Breath, which applies a strength penalty. Don't remember anything that should be immune to that, offhand.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Wait, Ettercaps are CR 3? I'm using the 3.0 Monster Manual . I'm not sure constructs are trainable, but I'll fix it anyways. About Synergy; I just didn't want them pigeonholed into one class. I'll change it so you can pick one. Also, how about a compromise between Gorgondantess' suggestion and yours? Maybe +2 Wis. or something?
    We are going by 3.5 here. Please don't be looking at 3.0. Ever. If there's any confusion, try here.
    Constructs aren't trainable... but by what you wrote, the ettercap could train them.
    No wisdom. Period. Unless you want to give it wisdom based abilities, which is cool. It does have highish constitution on the actual monster, as well as strength. One of the two. Or just up the actual class features and leave it at dexterity. I don't know much on the fluff, so I just said constitution, as it is a very mechanically appropriate choice, and it wouldn't be going out of fluff entirely.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Swarmshifter
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    I'm still thinking the swarmshifter would benefit from set class abilities rather than found class abilities.
    I'm not certain how well a CR and HD formula will work for this guy, sure it leaves a lot of options available, but does very little balance working.
    I guess at the end of the day using both CR and HD things shouldn't get to crazy, however I would prefer to see at least a small list of opinions customized to fit the class, that advance with HD. But I've already mentioned that I think.
    Also, class options seems to be my MO recently with that ridiculous idea of mine to add all the golems I can find to the Half-golem template...


    Cloaker
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    I like the idea of a Cloaker hiding on a fellow adventurer, nice touch with the half weight addition.
    Engulf is unclear as to weather it needs to succeed on a touch attack before attempting to grapple an opponent.
    The ability to grapple, and attack other creatures without a penalty is very strong. While normally creatures with improved grab may grapple as if they were not at a -20 penalty, normal creatures cannot attack outside of the grapple at all. Consider allowing the attacks, but perhaps at a healthy penalty?
    Engulfing leap mentions flight, which the cloaker does not yet have, it may be good to specify that it must land after this flying bout.
    It seems as if you are unsure when these abilities should be available without darkness. I am unsure whether they should be available without darkness.
    The language in the moans alternates between mentioning enemies and anyone. I doubt a sonic-mind effecting screech could differentiate between ally and enemy, but if it can, you may wish to be consistent with it.
    I suppose fear effects aren't terribly strong when everyone will be resisting or immune to them at this level, but still save or panicked is quite strong.
    Stupor mentions level rather than HD, which implies that it comes into play at Cloaker L.9, which their isn't. You may wish to change that to HD.
    While some of the options are nice, it seems to me to be a very bare class, it could use some more fun abilities, maybe more fluffy ones that can play off the idea that it looks like a cloak, I mean, why not take advantage of the fact that a party member can wear it. I mean, think of all the awesome abilities a semi-magical living cloak that abhors nature could grant to your adventuring buddies!


    Quasi-god
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    - Successfully complete a trial of supreme difficulty, thus earning your Divinity.
    Dig this pre-req. Is it new, or did I not notice it's awesome before?
    Divine Spark: I'm thinking this healing energy should be chosen by the player as Healing, Repairing, or Harming, as that an undead god may wish to 'heal' the undead.
    I dig the infinite use of l.0 spells, but only 1/5 rounds. Nice touch.
    I imagine That quasi-gods count as "other gods" for their light-darkness ability.
    Demi-plane looks good, I see a demi god going off to their Elemental Plane of Sandwiches to pack a bunch of adventurers a lunch. (Food's cheap enough in D&D, and at L.11 if the party hasn't got access to Create Food and Water, they've got bigger issues to deal with than hunger.)
    Still definitely going to point my players at this if they ever want to become gods (again.)


    Storm giant
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    Okay I see how the Exp thing works, that makes sense after some careful re-examination.
    I guess I've tended to play in and with longer combat sessions, 4-5 rounds is generally a mook fight, and scheduled fights can take much longer. I don't know how long other people tend to play with.
    Especially with the BBEG, the Storm Giant will only need 3-4 rounds to charge up a super assault, and when charging such a super assault is done with attacks and damaging actions, it really steals the...well, thunder, from other classes.
    Most "Heavy Monsters" will have immunities to Save or Sucks, or Save or Dies, but AoOs, those could get nasty fast.
    With Lightning Palm, 3 rounds of Shooting lightning at an enemy, the save or die DC is bumped by 15, and that's if the player wasn't finding some sort of creative UMD or other magical loophole to get iterative attacks that deal only lightning damage, such as a Level dip into sorcerer, and a rod of quick spell, this offers a DC bump of +20 for two rounds of blasting.
    Maybe it's just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing +(5xY) to a save or die DC. IIRC death from massive damage is not actually a death effect, and less Major Villains will be immune to it.
    I love the class, btw, always pleasantly surprised when I see your creations. I always think "Well that can't possibly be interesting" and then I read it and wonder why I ever doubted you ability to turn boring things into amazing things.
    Still not personally comfortable with the Charges as it stands, but that's just my two pence.


    Jovoc
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    Body of Vengeance: Nitpick, you change persons from You to It from the first sentence to the second.
    Double Claw: Does this allow for iterative attacks with both claws? This ability is either very very strong, or mildly uninteresting, I think you could get creative with it, and expand on it.
    Retributive aura...at 16HD is terrifyingly easy to break wide open, then again I guess waves of status effects at 16th HD isn't horrible, but I'm not currently savvy on all the "Status effects" there are. Is dead one? Stunned is. A stunned Jovoc makes for a great stun bomb. Have the party monk use stunning fist on him, fail the save willingly, move the jovoc, by any means, into a group, and shoot an arrow at it. Bam. Group is save or stunned.
    Same thing can be done with any status effect.
    Grappled? That's even better.
    Two Jovocs walk in to a bank, and begin wrestling, then one punches the other, everyone else must save be treated as if they were grappled.
    The lack of duration is also an issue.
    Then the jovocs open the vault, take the money and walk away as the guards paradoxically wrestle with invisible foes.
    Rapid Recovery is... Wow! 14 HD you're literally healing Ability damage like it's the pink raised to skin by a slap... that's... abusable and strong. I guess no stronger than immunity to such a thing, so I don't know.
    Shared doom... is uhm... yeah. Wow.
    Over all, it's got some very shakily worded features, and very little flavor to the thing. It could use some spicing up. I'm unfamiliar in general with the Jovoc, what's their thing? Succubi Seduce, Bearded Devils got Beards, Balors are big, and Kytons throw chains around, what do these guys do, and how can you make it awesome?


    Razor Boar
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    You may wish to detail trample's action and effects in its entry.
    Also, I think "1.5" would be better than "3/2" for the strength modifier as bonus damage.
    3rd level this class is looking might barren, and mighty vanilla. So far it has trample, some natural attacks and a little DR, compare this to other Melee monsters of 3rd level, usually there is already some nice combat abilities.
    Fourth level is all critical bumping...which isn't very fun for the play, nor very active. It's a fine side ability, but fourth level should offer an active attack or something. Maybe something like "Spear-hilt Charge" allowing the Boar an AoO against any creature that readies a weapon against it's charge.
    At fifth level this guy hasn't got much going for him other than his size.
    Reflexive gore has some wording issues that seem to imply that the Boar can attack itself, which makes little sense. I mean, of course it can attack itself, but why have an ability that allows it to do so?
    This class is in serious need of some creative active options.
    Waiting for a critical to happen is a mugs game played by fighters and non-errata Talenta-scythe wielders.
    To answer a few of your questions IMO
    * Should I up the racial bonus to bull rush?: Meh. No real need to.
    * Is Sharp Tusks broken?: Not so much broken as boring.
    * Is Unstoppable to much?: No, it's both weaker and stronger than Deathless frenzy, so I see no real problem with it, and its one of the more active abilities this class has. Maybe it belongs higher on the table, at a higher level, but the table needs some more filling out.
    * Crazy Sharp: y/n?: If she must be critical focused, the ability to Critical Against those pesky Undead/Oozes/Constructs/Fortified Armor Wearing savvy Jerks is always a good idea. However it is also suffering from the fact that it is very passive.
    I think I've hit the active/passive nail enough times to mar the wood. It's a tough beastie to build, good luck with the revisions!


    Vivisector
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    Where is this guy from?
    The eating vomiting rings bit, that's both cool and weird... personally I'd have my own explanation for the rings, but this works just fine.
    A deaf race, I imagine, would suffer a mild penalty to Move Silently, I know I have trouble sneaking out of the house being quiet backstage if I have my headphones in some reason for not being able to hear.
    Woah! Vivisection is both brutal and confusing, I mean I like it but... how does it steal the organs if its hands are knives?
    Does it eat them? Does it do surgery on itself? Does it simply derive curative pleasure from cutting open living creatures? What goes on here?
    Poor Blood is outside of the Organ list and all alone!
    If you donate two pence today, the Save an Organ Foundation can feed and cloth an abandened Blood in the Vivisector's entry.
    Telekinesis is pretty strong compared to the other abilities.
    What about eyes?
    Ears?
    Hands?
    Fingers?!?!
    Stomach?
    Intestines?
    Bile?
    Membrane?
    Pulmonary Sack?
    Sinew?
    Fat!?!?!
    Tentacles?
    Teeth?
    Construct-organs?
    Nerves?
    BRAINS!?!?!
    Bladder?
    Appendix?
    Feet? What. I'd steal feet. I'd totally steal feet.
    Endocr- Probably best not to go there.
    All in all she's decent yet, but could use some fluffy abilities in my mind. Some fun side powers as it were.
    Keep at it!
    Come with me, time out of mind...

  21. - Top - End - #171
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Skeroloth

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    HD: d6

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Skeroloth Body, Sneak Attack +1d6, Natural Stealth, +1 Dex

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Feign Weakness, +1 Dex

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Sneak Attack +2d6, Yugoloth Magic, +1 Dex[/table]


    Proficiencies
    The Skeroloth is proficient with its natural attacks, no armor and no shields.

    Skill Points: 6+Int
    Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise , Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device

    Skeroloth Body
    The Skeroloth loses all previous racial and gains the outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft, no need to eat or sleep). It gains a natural armor bonus equal to it's con modifier, and two claw attacks that deal 1d4+str damage each. It also gains a land speed of 40ft per round. A Skeloroth is a small creature that has no hands capable of fine manipulation. A skeroloth automatically gains Common as a language, and can choose either Abyssal of Infernal regardless of intelligence score. It may choose any language as a bonus language.

    When the Skeroloth gains its sixth HD, it gains another two claw attacks.

    Natural Stealth
    The Skeroloth gains a bonus to Hide Checks equal to half its hit dice.

    Sneak Attack
    If a Skeroloth can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

    The Skeroloth’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the Skeroloth flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two Skeroloth levels thereafter. Should the Skeroloth score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

    Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

    With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Skeroloth can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

    A Skeroloth can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The Skeroloth must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Skeroloth cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

    Dexterity Bonuses
    Each level, the Skeroloth gains a +1 racial bonus to its dexterity score, for a total of +3 at level 3.

    Feign Weakness
    At level 2, the Skeroloth may Feint as a swift action or as a move action (counts as Improved Feint for the purpose of prerequisites).

    In addition, every time the Skeroloth successfully feints in combat, he gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to +2, and an additional +1 bonus for every 5 hit dice the skeroloth has. This bonus is gained against the target of the feint only, for one round.

    Yugoloth Magic
    At level 3 the Skeroloth may cast Daze and Expeditious Retreat times per day equal to their hit dice.

    When the Skeroloth gains its 6th hit die, it can cast Hold Person (level 3 spell) times per day equal to 1/3 it's hit dice.

    When the Skeroloth gains its 11th hit die, it can cast Hold Monster (level 5 spell) times per day equal to 1/3 it's hit dice.


    Comments
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    Back to the Yugoloths. Did a fairly simple one this time.

    It's the Skeroloth from the Fiend Folio, which is basically just an ambusher and a coward to boot. I only had 3 levels to fill so I just cannibalized abilities from the original monster. To me, it seems a bit more powerful than an equally leveled rogue, but it might need tweaking.

    I didn't like the Cringe ability that much, especially on a PC, so it got replaced with the boosted feinting.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2011-03-26 at 11:38 AM.
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    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  22. - Top - End - #172
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    It's nice, but a little dull. Is it supposed to be some sort of giant flea demon? Maybe it could have a bonus to jump checks equal to 2xHD? I dunno, you have all the crunch down pretty well, it's just that I like semi-useless flavor abilities a little too much.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, the original creature didn't even have a word about jumping, and it doesn't look like a creature that should be especially good at jumping to me anyway.

    Also, given that it already has a speed of 40ft, it isn't that bad at jumping anyway.
    Frog in the playground.

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    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  24. - Top - End - #174
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Yeah, I guess you're right. It just reminds me of a flea for some reason.

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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Skeroloth
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    HD: d6

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Skeroloth Body, Sneak Attack +1d6, Natural Stealth, +1 Dex

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Feign Weakness, +1 Dex

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Sneak Attack +1d6, Yugoloth Magic, +1 Dex[/table]


    Proficiencies
    The Skeroloth is proficient with its natural attacks, no armor and no shields.

    Skill Points: 8+Int
    Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise , Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device

    Skeroloth Body
    The Skeroloth loses all previous racial and gains the outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft, no need to eat or sleep). It gains a natural armor bonus equal to it's con modifier, and two claw attacks that deal 1d4+str damage each. It also gains a land speed of 40ft per round. A Skeloroth is a small creature that has no hands capable of fine manipulation.

    When the Skeroloth gains its sixth HD, it gains another two claw attacks.

    Natural Stealth
    The Skeroloth gains a bonus to Hide Checks equal to half its hit dice.

    Sneak Attack
    As Rogue. You need to actually say what this does in the class.

    Dexterity Bonuses
    Each level, the Skeroloth gains a +1 racial bonus to its dexterity score, for a total of +3 at level 3.

    Feign Weakness
    The Skeroloth may Feint as a swift action or as a move action (counts as Improved Feint for the purpose of prerequisites). You need to say what level it gets this at in the description.

    In addition, every time the Skeroloth successfully feints in combat, he gains a +2 dodge bonus to ac and an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for every 5 HD the Skeroloth has. How long do these last?

    Yugoloth Magic
    At level 3 the Skeroloth may cast Daze and Expeditious Retreat times per day equal to their hit dice. Daze is pretty meh, especially at third level. Consider adding another similar but more powerful ability at some number of HD.
    Comments in blue

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    @ChumpLump
    Well, the MMV doesn't say where these things come from, and it doesn't elaborate much on WHY they Vivisect creatures, only that they feed of the organs for healing. I guess they could just go down a butcher for some offal, but monsters will be monsters. As for all the parts that i'm missing........
    That's why I didn't make up class options for the Swarmshifter. I tried to make up options in the 1st draft of the SS, but they sucked. Hard. I'm just not good at making up lots of options like you.
    So I went for the next best option. Use all the swarms available, and offer them as forms, because either a player will probably want a classic form (Bees, Spiders, Bats) or some exotic thing they saw in a Splatbook anyway.

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I did the requisite rogue copypasta, and clarified the Feign Weakness ability. I need to think of SLA:s to give them, but I fixed the other stuff.
    Frog in the playground.

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    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    I guess I've tended to play in and with longer combat sessions, 4-5 rounds is generally a mook fight, and scheduled fights can take much longer. I don't know how long other people tend to play with.
    In a given fight, though, are you honestly dealing the damage to a single enemy for the full 4-5 rounds? Because that's what it takes to make your Thunder & Lightning surges shine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    Especially with the BBEG, the Storm Giant will only need 3-4 rounds to charge up a super assault, and when charging such a super assault is done with attacks and damaging actions, it really steals the...well, thunder, from other classes.
    Well, it's my personal experience that a fight with the BBEG will be short and intense. In a game with save or lose effects at level 1, it's difficult to set up an encounter where the PCs are going to be exchanging blows for 5+ rounds. In those encounters where you can have the long, knock-down, drag-up fight, it's not implausible for the BBEG to have protection from or resistance to lightning. A Storm Giant that has to resort to Torrential Attack (Turning Lightning damage to Sonic damage) isn't going to be building surges, so you get your longer encounter that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    Most "Heavy Monsters" will have immunities to Save or Sucks, or Save or Dies, but AoOs, those could get nasty fast.
    I admit I could stand to tone down the AoOs some. I'm hoping for some more feedback before I get in elbows deep to make changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    With Lightning Palm, 3 rounds of Shooting lightning at an enemy, the save or die DC is bumped by 15, and that's if the player wasn't finding some sort of creative UMD or other magical loophole to get iterative attacks that deal only lightning damage, such as a Level dip into sorcerer, and a rod of quick spell, this offers a DC bump of +20 for two rounds of blasting.
    Perhaps I could/should specify a limit to number of surges added in a given round. Not too strict, but enough that it heads off shenanigans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    Maybe it's just a knee-jerk reaction to seeing +(5xY) to a save or die DC. IIRC death from massive damage is not actually a death effect, and less Major Villains will be immune to it.
    That's intentional. One wants the Storm Giant to have something to bring to the table at high/epic levels, and it is meant to be representative of such vast amounts of damage that someone is scattered to the four winds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chumplump
    I love the class, btw, always pleasantly surprised when I see your creations. I always think "Well that can't possibly be interesting" and then I read it and wonder why I ever doubted you ability to turn boring things into amazing things.
    Thank you. That's nice to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon
    Skeroloth
    Use this url for the pic:
    http://i54.tinypic.com/4jqi53.jpg
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-01-28 at 12:34 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Thanks for that pic, Hyudra.

    I have to say that looking at some of Oslecamo's old work, some of it is stuff that I would not allow into my game. Take for example, the Ghaele Eladrin. It's a full tier 2 arcane spellcaster with a full BAB, better HD and a bunch of class features to seal the deal. Being slightly MAD certainly doesn't compensate for that, especially since you get a sizable bonus to one of the stats that are supposed to be contributing to said MAD. The MAD is really weak here anyway, because you only need to get your Wis up to 19, and then you can ignore it, which is not hard when you're getting a +5 to your main casting stat just from your class levels.

    My quick fix would be to replace sorcerer spellcasting with bard spellcasting, but otherwise using the same stipulations. That way, there are actual tradeoffs.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2011-01-28 at 01:16 PM.
    Frog in the playground.

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    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Hyudra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    All my respect to Oslecamo, as far as getting the project off the ground and popularizing it, but he didn't have the best head for balance. Beyond that, even those creatures that are technically balanced, wouldn't necessarily pass muster today. Minotaur and Troll are two creatures with some potential to be interesting, but are just a mess of passive bonuses with little to make for interesting gameplay. There's also a few (Dragon, Tarrasque) which are potential nightmares as far as the power level they bring to the game. I've discussed the point to death with Gorgondantess (as far as dragons are concerned, anyways), but I still have to say I wouldn't allow any of the Monster Class Dragons into my games.

    On the other side of the spectrum, I wouldn't mind a chance to tackle a few of the monsters Oslecamo did already, from scratch, just to bring them up to par with monsters today in terms of options & power level. The aforementioned Minotaur and Troll included.

    Though I'm hesitant to contribute more monsters, because with Gorgondantess so busy as to be unable to critique, and MagicYop AWOL, the council thing has more or less fallen through. I feel like the Manticore and Basilisk are nearly done & need a final lookthrough by experienced contributors before addition to the list, but there's nobody to give that final say.

    I've currently got loose frameworks done for Chimera, a non-monster class that's turning out to be a huge project (not related to this project), and one monster class that I'm keeping under wraps until it's towards the end-stages (It's a 20 level class, bleh).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-01-28 at 02:15 PM.

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