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  1. - Top - End - #931
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    And suddenly, this is my new diplomancer class.

    I like it, though I haven't read through every last detail.

    I will soon tho.

  2. - Top - End - #932
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Hey, where'd the Goblin go? I thought it was an interesting class, but I can't find it on the normal or homebrew versions of this thread.
    EDIT: Never mind. I found it, but it's no longer on any of the lists. What gives?
    Last edited by Scio; 2011-03-01 at 07:05 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #933
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    There's also the incorporeal subtype at level 1. That breaks the game right off the bat.
    Didn't give it at level 1, by the way. It doesn't come 'til 16 HD.
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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    Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!

  4. - Top - End - #934
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Hey, where'd the Goblin go? I thought it was an interesting class, but I can't find it on the normal or homebrew versions of this thread.
    EDIT: Never mind. I found it, but it's no longer on any of the lists. What gives?
    As I said in an earlier post, I'm moving it to the homebrew section after a few revisions, because I more or less agree with Gorgon that it's less of a monster class than an experiment.

  5. - Top - End - #935
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Monster retracted until further notice.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-03-01 at 08:45 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #936
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    No Pic? Here's two possibilities:
    *snipped*
    Resized and added. Thanks.

    Also tweaked and rewrote a bunch of stuff to eliminate some fairly obvious abuse possibilities. Finishing the symbionts is going to have to wait a few days, so no serious critiques are really possible yet. If, however, you happen to notice anything obvious that needs fixing, feel free to let me know.

    While we're on the subject of critiques, though, I'd like to point out that I am, in my own estimation, way too new at this to have anything particularly valuable to say in critique of other people's work. On the other hand, I don't expect people to critique my stuff and then not do anything for them. So I'd like to throw out an offer:

    I will, upon request, proofread any monster class for spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalization, formatting, and general typographical errors. I will correct them, changing nothing else unless grammatically unavoidable (and noting where I have done so in the changelog), and send you the revised post (BBCode and all) by PM. You can then simply edit the post containing your monster class and replace its current contents with a direct copy-paste from my PM.

    And then the more experienced critiquers won't need to waste their time nitpicking little tiny typos.

    I'm not offering this service specifically in exchange for critiques- i.e., you don't have to critique my stuff (heck, it's not even ready yet) in order for me to proofread your class. What I am doing is offering to help out the rest of the project in general with what I can do well, and hoping (assuming, actually- I've been watching the thread for long enough to get the general impression that y'all are decent folks) that the project in general will, in turn, do what they can to help me.

    Sound good?

    My computer access is somewhat limited during the latter half of the week, but I should be able to complete requested proofreads within a day or so on Mon-Tues-Wed, and within a few days during the rest of the week (not going to nail myself down to specifics on this one, but by the end of the next Monday at the latest).

    Hope this is helpful to someone.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-01 at 08:14 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #937
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Thank you, Psyborg, that sounds really useful. I'm generally nitpicky about that stuff, and I know one or two people (at least) were getting a little frustrated.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-01 at 08:46 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #938
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    from monsters of faerun
    deepspawn- a podpeople inspirded aberation
    doppleganger, greater- braineating/memory absorbing doppleganger
    sharn- pure chaos possibly even predating dragons

  9. - Top - End - #939
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Those supposed to be request, Geigar?
    Last edited by NineThePuma; 2011-03-01 at 09:02 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #940
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by NineThePuma View Post
    Those supposed to be request, Geigar?
    yes I would appreciate that

  11. - Top - End - #941
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Justice Archon (Monster Manual IV, pg.80)



    Class
    Spoiler
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    Hit Die: d10

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Abilities|Attribute Increase

    1|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Justice Archon's Body, Eyes of the Judge, Justice Strike|+1 Cha
    2|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Quarry, Aura of Menace|+1 Dex
    3|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Archon's Wards, Justice Brand|+1 Cha
    4|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Retributive Fate, Harry|+1 Cha
    5|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Aura of Protection, Archon's Wings|+1 Dex
    6|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Warp, Pursuit|+1 Cha[/table]

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int Mod) x 4
    Skill Points at each additional Level: 4 + Int Mod

    Class Skills: The Justice Archon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spot (Wis).

    Proficiencies: Justice Archons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armour (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (excluding tower shields).

    Justice Archon Body: A Justice Archon loses all other racial characteristics and becomes a creature of the Outsider type with the following traits:
    • Medium Size
    • Base Land Speed: 30ft
    • Darkvision 60ft
    • Low-Light Vision
    • +4 racial bonus to saves against petrification
    • Immunity to poison
    • Automatic Languages: Common and Celestial

    Additionally, the Justice Archon gains the Archon subtype, but the benefits of this class replace the ones normally granted by the Archon subtype.

    Attribute Increase: The Justice Archon receives +1 Cha at 1st, 3rd, 4th and 6th levels and +1 Dex at 2nd and 5th levels, for a total of +4 Cha and +2 Dex at 6th level.

    Eyes of the Judge (Su): The Justice Archon can gaze upon mortals to see their sins. Concentrating on a target she can see, the Justice Archon may divine the subject's crimes. Each round spent studying the target provides information:
    • 1st Round: The Justice Archon sees the degree of crimes the subject has committed, and the degree to which they have been punished. The degree of the crimes is based upon the subject's lawfulness, and the degree of punishment upon the repercussions' severity in relation to the crime. In either case, information is in general terms.
    • 2nd Round: The Justice Archon learns the most recent crime the subject committed. This is typically mild, such as theft, attacking someone from behind, or a simple lie with malicious intent. She may view the crime as it was committed, as though she were a third party present and watching. Additionally, she learns the exact details of any punishment received and/or atonement sought.
    • 3rd Round: The Justice Archon learns of the most serious crime the subject committed in their lifetime. Again, she may view the crime as if she were there as it took place. She may also see if attempts were made to atone for the crime, or punishments already received, and what they were.
    • 4th Round (and subsequent): The Justice Archon may view the second most recent crime, or second gravest crime. Once either of those have been seen, she can work her way back to the third, fourth, etc, but she must view them in order and receives the same amount of detail as above in regards to punishment and atonement.

    If the target has confessed of a crime they committed to the Justice Archon, or the Archon wishes to view an already known or previously viewed crime they may choose to view that crime instead of the most recent on the second round of concentration. If she desires, the Justice Archon may spend more then one round viewing a specific crime, its details, and those of the punishment and atonement, if any.

    In game terms, a 'crime' is an act with ill intent and/or an act disrupting or against the natural order of things. Deliberate acts are usually considered more severe, while accidental or uncontrollable circumstances are less so. As such, it is potentially possible for a lie or incest to qualify as a heavier crime than murder, depending on the consequences, the malice involved and the repercussions. As their viewpoint is that of an observer they might witness details or facts the target is unaware of, have forgotten, or convinced were different.

    Justice Strike (Su): Sometimes the best punishment to inflict upon a guilty target is that which it inflicts upon others. Whenever a Justice Archon hits with a melee attack, she may activate this ability as a free action. When activated this ability replaces the Archon's melee damage with that of the most damaging regular melee attack the target has available to it. Manufactured weapons are only considered available if being actively wielded by the target, and natural weapons are always considered available. This damage includes effects that apply automatically on a hit, such as energy damage or poison, but not those from optional effects or feats, such as Power Attack. As a supernatural ability, damage from this ability ignores DR.

    While using this ability the Archon counts as being armed if she is striking with her unarmed strike.

    Quarry (Su): Justice Archons excel at tracking and taking down one foe at a time; their current target is referred to as their quarry. As a swift action, an Archon of second level can designate a target within sight as their quarry, so long as they have witnessed the target commit a crime (either in person or with their Eyes of the Judge ability) and/or attack the Archon and her allies. Once designated, the quarry remains as such until they die, the Archon designates a new quarry, or the quarry evades the Archon's sight for 1 day per HD of the Archon.

    A Justice Archon can always identify her quarry by sight, even if the target has attempted to change it's appearance (like with the disguise skill, or transmutation and illusion effects). If they are on the same plane she knows the general direction (to the nearest cardinal or ordinal direction) and approximate distance to her quarry, the precision of this knowledge depends on the overall distance between them.
    • She knows the distance up to the nearest 50ft if she's within 500ft.
    • Up to the nearest 500ft if within a mile.
    • Up to the nearest mile if within 10 miles.
    • And further distances follow the same pattern.

    She can also ignore the miss chance from abilities based on displacing one's position (such as mirror image or displacement, but nor blur or invisibility) when attacking her target.

    A quarry that fails their save against the Archon's Aura of Menace is shaken for as long as they suffer the aura's penalties. At 10HD they are shaken even if normally immune to fear effects.

    Aura of Menace (Su): A Justice Archon of second level can project their anger and fury into a supernatural aura to shake the confidence of her foes. This aura activates automatically whenever the Archon makes a melee attack or uses a Rage-like ability, forcing all opponents within 30ft to make a Will Save (DC = 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha modifier) or take a -1 penalty to AC and saves until they deal damage to the Archon with a melee attack. For every 5HD the Archon has, the penalty increases by -1 and the radius increases by 10ft.

    The Archon can also choose to activate this aura when making an Intimidate check, in which case a target that fails the save against Aura of Menace takes the aura's penalty to their opposed roll.

    Regardless of how it was activated, the aura lasts until the Archon goes five rounds without attacking or making an intimidate check. Alternatively the Archon can calm their aura down by taking a full-round action and making a Concentration check (DC 10 + 1/2 their HD).

    Archon's Wards (Ex): At third level a Justice Archon becomes more in tune with their heritage, gaining the resilience associated with such beings. They gain DR/alignment equal to half their HD. Good Archons gain DR/Evil, Evil Archons DR/Good, and Neutral Archons choose one of either. Against their Quarry, treat this as DR/-.

    They also gain spell resistance (11 + HD) and resistance to electricity equal to twice their Hit Dice. The latter becomes immunity to electricity at 10HD.

    Justice Brand (Su): For some, the thought of punishment under the law is not deterrent enough, and in those cases a Justice Archon of third level can provide additional incentive. As a standard action once per day (Plus an additional time per 5 HD) the Archon may request the surrender of a single creature within sight, marking them with a glowing brand effecting them as per the spell Faerie Fire (CL=HD) with the colour of the glow dependent on the Archon alignment (Good: Blue, Neutral: Green, Evil: Violet).

    While under the effects of the brand, each time the target makes an attack, uses a hostile spell or ability, or commits a crime they take damage equal to the Archon's Charisma modifier (or twice that if they are of a different alignment than the Archon).

    However, should the target honestly accept the offer of surrender they are considered both prisoner and ward of the Justice Archon. Creatures that attack or target it with hostile spells or abilities are subject to the brand's damage, and it may attack them in defense without penalty. In this instance the ability instead lasts until the branded target can be turned over to the proper authorities, and automatically consumes a use of this ability each day it lasts.

    Additionally the Justice Archon's weapons are considered to be aligned with an alignment of the Archon's own, this is an extraordinary ability..

    Harry (Ex): The more a foe has to focus on protecting themselves from a Justice Archon, the less they can focus on attacking her. By fourth level they have developed techniques to keep the pressure on their opponents. While they remain within her threatened area, opponents cannot cast defensively or regain their psionic focus. Other abilities that require the concentration skill take a penalty on their rolls equal to half the Archon's HD.

    If the quarry of an Archon with this ability leaves her threatened area she may take an immediate action to move up to half her speed after the quarry. If the Archon ends her movement within reach of her quarry she may make a single melee attack, which counts against her limit of Attacks of Opportunity for that round. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

    Retributive Fate (Su): Justice Archons of fourth level have tapped further into their archon powers, gaining an ability to make them hardier against opponent employing special attacks. Activating this ability requires a swift action and can be used a number of times per day equal to her HD divided by 4. Each use of this ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to her HD divided by four.

    Once activated this ability increases the Archon's spell resistance, saving throws, and armour class by an amount equal to her charisma modifier for its duration. During this period of time, the first time an ability or attack fails against the Archon because of this bonuses, it looses the to that specific quality and the ability's user becomes the target instead. Against volley attacks (Such as a Ranger with Manyshot or Wizard with Scorching Ray) the Archon retains the bonus against all the attack rolls made as a part of it, but can still only reflect back one attack.

    For example, A Justice Archon has finally caught up with her quarry, a CE Bard responsible for a series of murder and disappearances. Expected trouble, she activates her Retributive Fate ability before bursting into his hideout. The Bard was expecting her however an unleashes a casting of Hold Monster upon her. The DC against the Bard's spell is 23, and the Archon rolls a 24 beating it thanks to the +5 bonus her charisma provided thanks to this ability. She Hold Monster requires a Will save, she looses the +5 bonus to her Will saves for the abilities remaining duration.

    Aura of Protection (Su): As a swift action, a Justice Archon of fifth level can activate or deactivate a soothing aura of calm protection with the same range as their aura of Menace. The Archon and allies within this aura gain the benefits of a Protection from Alignment spell with the Archon choosing one aspect of their alignment and protecting against the opposite. So a Lawful Good Justice Archon could provide protection from either Chaos or Evil. Additionally, enemies within the aura must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha modifier) in order to benefit from abilities requiring extreme emotional states, such as a Barbarian's Rage.

    A Justice Archon cannot use this ability while her Aura of Menace is active. Likewise, her Aura of Menace cannot activate while her Aura of Protection is active.

    Archon's Wings (Ex): At fifth level a Justice Archon's wings become strong enough to bear her aloft. She gains a Fly speed of 30ft, with Good maneuverability. Her wings continue to strengthen, increases this speed by 5ft for each Hit Die she possesses above five, to a maximum of 60ft at 11HD.

    Stronger wings also benefit the Justice Archon in other ways. At 10HD she can treat her worn armour as one category lighter in regards to how much it limits her fly speed. At 15HD she can treat it as two categories lighter, and at 20HD she ignores penalties to her fly speed for wearing any armour. Her armour's check penalty still applies, and her speed is still limited as normal for carrying a medium or heavier load.

    Warp (Sp): At sixth level a Justice Archon unlocks the ability to move herself rapidly between places. She gains Dimension Door as a Spell-Like Ability usable 1/day per 3HD with a Caster level equal to her Hit Dice. When using her Harry ability to follow her quarry, she may spend a use of this ability and simply teleport the intervening distance.

    At 9HD she can spend a use of this ability to Teleport instead, as per the spell.

    At 11HD she can spend two uses of this ability to use Plane Shift instead.

    At 15HD her Teleport improves to Greater Teleport, and Plane Shift now only requires one use.

    Pursuit (Ex): A Justice Archon of sixth level is relentless in the pursuit of her targets. She gains Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. If she already has it, the number of attacks of opportunity she is allowed per round increases by 50%, to her Dex modifier x 1.5 (rounded down). Additionally, she may use her Harry ability to follow any creature leaving her threatened area, not just her quarry.

    Should her quarry use a teleportation effect, she may spend a use of her Warp ability as a free action to follow along. She appears beside her quarry at the destination and may immediately make an attack of opportunity against it. The target is considered flat-footed against this attack. The Justice Archon must be able to perceive her quarry when it uses the teleportation effect in order to follow along. This is considered a supernatural ability.


    Changelog
    Spoiler
    Show
    March 1st, 2011
    • Originally Posted
    • Forgot ability boosts entry with the totals and such.
    • Minor spell corrections
    • Detect Guilt removed
    • Eyes of the Judge added at first level

    March 6th
    • Added Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill.
    • Further clarified which attacks are available to substitute in for Justice Strike's damage.
    • Smoothed out wording for Aura of Menace and made a spelling correction.
    • Clarified the level gained in Aligned Strike's ability text.
    • Minor wording corrections to Archon's wards.
    • Spelling corrections made to Quarry.
    • Clarified Quarry's duration and what counts for witnessing a crime.
    • The shaken effect for Aura of Menace and Quarry targets clarified.
    • Aura of Protection's benefits clarified.

    March 7th
    • Reworked Quarry's base benefits.
    • Toned Shared Fate down by making it less absolute.
    • Halved uses per day on Warp, and made it self only.

    March 9th
    • Proofread and tweaked by Psyborg. In addition to minor corrections of typos and formatting, the following non-trivial alterations were made:
    • Pursuit (Combat Reflexes/increased AoO limit section): Wording slightly altered. Functionality unchanged.
    • Pursuit (Warp section): Specified that the Justice Archon must be able to perceive her quarry in order to follow along when it uses a teleportation effect, to prevent an Archon suddenly becoming aware of and teleporting to her quarry's location from another plane just because the quarry used an anklet of translocation to teleport ten feet.
    • <end Psyborg's stuff. Excellent work; there was very little to fix.>
    • Zemro made the following changes:
    • Tweaked pursuit wording so that the bonus feat doesn't disappear in an anti-magic field (as that's rather weird). Categorized the ability as Ex, and then specified the section related to Warp to be Su.
    • Made a few spelling and formatting corrections that slipped through the cracks.

    March 16th
    • Shared fate now runs off of uses per day, and functions slightly differently.

    March 18th
    • Altered how Archon to determines the approximate distance to her quarry.

    March 24th
    • Changed looses to loses in the body ability.
    • Wording corrections made to the portion of Quarry devoted to located her target.

    March 29th
    • Small tweaks made to Eyes of the Judge to further clarify its intent.
    • Archon's Wards now grants Spell Resistance, just like the base monster has.
    • Shared Fate replaced with a new ability: Retributive Fate.
    • Retributive Fate temporarily increases her defenses and allows her to sacrifice the bonus to reflect an attack back.

    April 3rd
    • Reworded the section of Justice strike dealing with unarmed attacks.
    • Corrected an errant spelling of 'menace' in Aura of Menace.
    • Specified Caster Level on SLAs from Warp.
    • Altered Warp to start with Dimension Door, improving to Teleport at 9HD, and then progressing as normal.
    • Removed weight limits and decreased uses per day on Warp.
    • Altered Harry's passive benefits slightly.
    • Moved Quarry up to second level, Aligned Strike down to third.
    • Changed listed order of abilities slightly, and their wordings to reflect new positions.
    • Aligned Strike replaced with Justice Brand, retaining the same passive effect but adding an on-use component.
    • Slightly shifted the placement of a few formatting tags, making it so that the colon was consistently placed inside the bold tags on ability names. Previously it was inside on some and outside on others.

    April 26th
    • Monster Class Projected Terminated, class is assumed completed until moved somewhere else.
    • Comment section outdated and no longer needed, has been removed pending a new comment section based on the class's current status.
    Last edited by Zemro; 2011-04-26 at 10:45 PM.
    Homebrew Monster Classes:
    Arcadian Avenger|Thorn|Marrash|Justice Archon

  12. - Top - End - #942
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    yes I would appreciate that
    I'll give you the traditional warning so that Hyudra doesn't have to. We already have a lot of monsters each of us are doing, we're kind of backed up, and if you want the class done soon, you better just do them yourself.
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  13. - Top - End - #943
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Just a comment about Justice Strike- I'm assuming that this ability allows you to deal the damage that your opponent is capable of doing right now, with its current weapons, etc. But that's not the only way to interpret it. I, for example, could say "Well, yeah, that Collossal dragon isn't carrying weapons, but it *could* do even more damage with a Collossal Fullblade!" I'd recommend clearing that up. Also, give it uses per day. Otherwise, by Hyudra's definition, it's not an "active" ability, because you will be using it every time your opponent is bigger than you. Otherwise, nice, fun, flavorful ability!
    Last edited by mootoall; 2011-03-01 at 09:30 PM.
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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  14. - Top - End - #944
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    I'll give you the traditional warning so that Hyudra doesn't have to. We already have a lot of monsters each of us are doing, we're kind of backed up, and if you want the class done soon, you better just do them yourself.
    Provided they're shorter/smaller classes. Don't tackle a 15 level (max level in the class = CR) class yourself. That's not fun for you (taking 3+ weeks to get it done, respond to all the critiques, figure out how we do things) or us (having to hold your hand every step of the way through the aforementioned steps).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-01 at 10:01 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #945
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Not much, but in the Greenbound class, you may want to read over the Mettle feature. Specifically, look at which class is mentioned in the description.
    currently the mystic warrior loses the ability while sleeping, but the greenbound does not. You may want to fix that, but it's just a minor thing.
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  16. - Top - End - #946
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    @ the detect alignment thing, an idea:

    Eye of the Judge:
    The Justice Archon can gaze upon mortals to see their sins. Concentrating on a target she can see, the Justice Archon may divine the subject's crimes. Each round spent studying the target provides information:
    • 1st Round: The Justice Archon sees the degree of crimes the subject has committed, contrasted by their lawfulness.
    • 2nd Round: The Justice Archon learns of most recent crime the subject committed. This is typically mild, ranging from theft, attacking someone from behind to a simple lie with malicious intent. She may view the crime as it was committed, as though she were a third party, watching.
    • 3rd Round: The Justice Archon learns of the most serious crime the subject committed in their lifetime. Again, she may view the crime as if she were there as it took place. She may also see if attempts were made to atone for the crime, and what they were.
    • 4th Round, etc: The Justice Archon may view the second most recent crime, or second gravest crime. Once either of those have been seen, she can work her way back to the third, fourth, etc, but she must view them in order

    In game terms, a 'crime' is an act with ill intent and/or an act against the natural order of things. As such, it is potentially possible for a lie or incest to qualify as a heavier crime than murder, depending on the consequences, the malice involved and the repercussions.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-01 at 10:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    Just a comment about Justice Strike- I'm assuming that this ability allows you to deal the damage that your opponent is capable of doing right now, with its current weapons, etc. But that's not the only way to interpret it. I, for example, could say "Well, yeah, that Collossal dragon isn't carrying weapons, but it *could* do even more damage with a Collossal Fullblade!" I'd recommend clearing that up.
    I honestly cannot figure out which portion of the ability is giving you that impression. So, if you could highlight the section that's giving you that misinterpretation, that'd be swell.

    I can see some situation were things might become complicated, but nothing seems to scream 'potential damage' instead of 'actual damage' to me. So you'll have to point it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    Also, give it uses per day. Otherwise, by Hyudra's definition, it's not an "active" ability, because you will be using it every time your opponent is bigger than you. Otherwise, nice, fun, flavorful ability!
    I'm going to stick to my guns on the usage of this ability, as its effectiveness is completely dependant on the game you're playing in and what you're fighting. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean they'll have a better melee attack, a quick glance through the monster manual turned up plenty of large creatures who would deal less damage with their best attack than you would with a greatsword and 18 starting strength.

    Now, yes, there are big enough creatures that you may not be out damaging normally, but you can buff your attack with feats and enchantments. You're only getting their basic attack, essentially weapon damage plus strength modifier. Sometimes that'll be better, sometimes it won't.

    It wasn't really intended to be an 'active' ability, and past gaming experiences have shown that more often and not the highest damaging monsters are like that because of multiple attacks rather than single damaging ones. The boosting is situational, and overall I don't think it'll be hugely significant, and thus don't think it warrants being capped at uses per day.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    @ the detect alignment thing, an idea:

    Eye of the Judge:
    The Justice Archon can gaze upon mortals to see their sins. Concentrating on a target she can see, the Justice Archon may divine the subject's crimes. Each round spent studying the target provides information:
    • 1st Round: The Justice Archon sees the degree of crimes the subject has committed, contrasted by their lawfulness.
    • 2nd Round: The Justice Archon learns of most recent crime the subject committed. This is typically mild, ranging from theft, attacking someone from behind to a simple lie with malicious intent. She may view the crime as it was committed, as though she were a third party, watching.
    • 3rd Round: The Justice Archon learns of the most serious crime the subject committed in their lifetime. Again, she may view the crime as if she were there as it took place. She may also see if attempts were made to atone for the crime, and what they were.
    • 4th Round, etc: The Justice Archon may view the second most recent crime, or second gravest crime. Once either of those have been seen, she can work her way back to the third, fourth, etc, but she must view them in order

    In game terms, a 'crime' is an act with ill intent and/or an act against the natural order of things. As such, it is potentially possible for a lie or incest to qualify as a heavier crime than murder, depending on the consequences, the malice involved and the repercussions.
    Hmm, something like that sounds pretty good. I'll make some tweaks and incorporate it.
    Last edited by Zemro; 2011-03-01 at 10:08 PM.
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    Arcadian Avenger|Thorn|Marrash|Justice Archon

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    Ah, I missed the word "regular" in there. Still, might want to make it more specific. In fact, I'm a bit unclear- are you copying their melee damage dice, or the average of their regular attack? Because it might actually be more fitting to make it copy the exact damage dealt to you. That way it feels more like retribution when they hit your ally with a crit, and then you hit back to avenge them with the same amount of force ...


    Edit: And Hyudra, while you're giving out potential abilities, would you care to suggest something for the Unbodied? Again, I don't have any ideas for a fourth level one, and I could desperately use someone more creative than me's assistance. Just a quick lookthrough and a fitting, preferably manipulative/social ability would make me really happy.
    Last edited by mootoall; 2011-03-01 at 10:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benly View Post
    He did. Then people complained it was overpowered/It had those. Someone thought it was overpowered. He changed it.
    Do tell me who this whistleblower is so that I can smack them in the face for being an uptight guy in a monkey suit.
    ...Or something like that.

    Not really. Eldritch blast in its basic form is terrible, and this doesn't give the options warlocks have for doing actual decent damage with it. The only reason I can see to dip for it might be on a rogue since it's a decent sneak attack vector.
    Yes, but this is eldritch blast... with so much more!
    It isn't affected by SR. It has 100% effectiveness against incorporeal/ethereal creatures. It doesn't provoke AoOs. And it apparently has a range of "if you can see them, you can hit them".
    It's not that it's horribly powerful. It's that it's horribly reliable.
    It's also pretty boring and should likely be scrapped entirely.

    People are really scared of d6es for some reason. As I've said before, the average damage from the 5d6 Telekinetic Blast (or EB) deals at 9th level is equivalent to a 4th-level warrior power attacking, a 9th-level wizard using his reserve feat because the situation isn't worth his spells, or a warhorse full attacking. If anything, it needs to be better.
    I've said the exact same rant. Or, similar enough.
    "OMG 10d6 SO POWERFUL!!!"
    "Ummm... yeah, 35 damage."
    "..."

    Dsmiles also needs to keep a better changelog, even though it's hilarious watching people complain about the lack of things the class used to have that got changed because someone else complained about them.
    Not to those who are critiquing it.

    Drow:
    Ugh. Can you just not do the whole dazzling thing? There's a 10 gp item that negates it entirely: sundark goggles, RotD page 123.
    Noble caste: Drop the diplomacy time reduction. Jegus, it'll still be plenty powerful at the end of the day without it.
    Warrior Caste:
    BEST. DIP. EVARRR!
    Seriously, this thing could gish it up like no other. The new avenues of gishiness it gets are mindboggling. Or just make it a factotum/rogue/swordsage class.
    Seriously, though, Warrior caste drow1/insert fullcaster here 4/unseen seer 10 is pretty amazing. Buckets of skillpoints, +13 BAB at 15th level, 14th level casting at 15th level, decent sneak attack dice, some other nifty abilities... Yowzers. I mean, I'm almost tempted to allow this because it makes so many doors open to me, all at once, so beautifully... *sniff*
    Also: halfweight mountain plate.
    Assassin caste:
    Coooooool.
    Mage caste: Kiiiiindof lame. Darkness, dancing lights and faerie fire are all weak spells, and as a fullcaster your standard actions are going to be a valuable commodity! It's really good at 1st level (WOOT, daze/touch of fatigue with a huge area!), decent at 5th level (woot, daze/touch of fatigue in a huge area!), and worthless by 10th level (eh, daze/touch of fatigue in a huge area). By then you'll likely prefer what class feature you would've gotten by trading in your familiar... and speaking of which, might want to specify that they can't trade in the familiar they can't get.
    Devout caste drow: opposite of the mage caste. Really hurts at 1st level (No CMW for stabilization!), but it's pretty nice by 5th level (wisdom bonus races are rare, and I'm sure there's some cool PrC shenanigans that could be accomplished by wild empathy...)
    Casteless: Love it. It'd be my top pick after the SHEER OPTIONS of the warrior caste.
    Don't see why metamagic feats would be banned. As a spontaneous caster, that would actually really be really nice.

    Muffet:
    Razor tangle: Want decapitation?
    Give it an ability where it can make its webbing into a noose. Works as strangulation normally, damage/decapitation with razor wire. I'd also like to see the ability let you reel someone in up to the ceiling, grapple them, wrap the webbing around their neck and hang them. That'd be pretty much the best thing ever with the silent skitter ability.
    "Where Beezlebubby go?"
    *Drops down next to them, hung dead*

    Eerie chitter: a bit of a leap from shakened to panicked. Frightened?
    Spiderbite AC reduction: can this reduce to negative AC?
    I do not like it when my suggestions are disregarded without any reasons. I will assume you missed them.
    Brood Mother: might want to add in something to the effect that they'll still hatch if the creature dies, as likely they will before they get a chance to fail their secondary save.
    or nether regions
    Talk about body horror.

    Otherwise, looking OK. Though I've already discussed why my saying it is OK is highly, HIGHLY fallible.
    Gargoyle:
    Quote Originally Posted by ScionoftheVoid View Post
    First, that's because the Tough Skin ability can raise it. I'll hold back on an edit here until I have some input on how to adjust both of them. Raise both, keep as-is, raise base only?
    Raise base only, maybe? Or maybe raise base, then make the additional something like +1.5x+1/5 HD?

    Would it be strong enough if I removed super-invis? I'm guessing yes and changing it, but I can change it back.
    Yessss.

    Petrification, to clarify I should remove both features? It was weak only raising natural armour and would be rather strong with just the boost.
    Just remove both the features. It adds up, eh. Otherwise the wizard would cast wraithstrike on you, you full attack a dragon, the dragon falls to the ground paralyzed. Dex damage is almost as good as int damage in this respect.

    Deluge Waterspout doesn't knock prone (it's a direct push back, not knocking them off their feet) so I'll leave a damage change for after a response, and I'll add "unoccupied".
    ...Oh. Reduce the area, then. By a good amount.

    Razor Boar:
    Quote Originally Posted by 1st level
    A first level warrior has the choice of what weapon to use. Other than that everything a warrior chooses can also be chosen by the razor boar, along with surge of force.
    Yes. It's still more. Now compare it to an actual PC class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scent
    Yeah, but I can't exactly put it first and any other means I have of making it stand out look unprofessional. What would you suggest?
    Rename the ability. Call it something else (bloodscent? Hungry like the boar?), say it gains the scent ability (linked to the actual ability in the SRD) AND (insert additional text here).
    Quote Originally Posted by Resilience
    Is this a good thing? is it too much? This is supposed to be a really tough beastie.
    I'd break it out by level as opposed to HD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench
    At no point during a battle is the boar not engaged in rapid violent and unpredictable motion. The damage taken on a failed escape is dealt primarily by the boar's hide smacking into the rider's face and the most that most creatures can hope for is pulling themselves free or going along with the motion enough to not get hurt(represented by not making an escape attempt.) And the few creatures which would actually be capable of riding the boar probably have other ways of getting on its back.
    Then make an opposed strength check modified by size? That's pretty much what it is. Yes, the Boar is badass, but that doesn't mean nothing else is as well. I'd say something like a lizardfolk barbarian of equivalent level and heroic array should be able to hack at the boar pretty well while doing that. I'm not saying you HAVE to, I'm saying it would add to verisimilitude and be pretty cool... especially for a DM using the razor boar against their players, which, you have to admit, is going to happen just as much as actual razor boar players ('cept maybe in the case of cohorts).
    Quote Originally Posted by Unstoppable
    It is a non-action and can be taken at pretty much any time. Death or some similar effect (permanent petrification) can stop it but that's about it.
    What about a brain lock, which halts all actions physical and mental? You need to include this stuff in the ability description.
    Probably, but there's really nowhere to put it without displacing something else.
    You could swing it at 1st level. I think an ideal situation would be to switch it with surge of force and give it this ability, but for all combat options (overrun, grapple, etc.) at first level. It doesn't GIVE it any combat options, but it WOULD make normally less than desirable combat options much more viable.

    Unbodied:
    You could totally swing incorporeal at an earlier time. 5th level?
    Stacking: first of all, a first time reader might not get the stacking. Copy the usual multiclassing stacking rules (which even then people often don't get).
    Sneak attack... eh. Stacking that strikes me as unnecessary. Also a little too powerful, because then you take a 1 level dip in rogue to suddenly gain +3d6 sneak attack. And then you take a dip in lurk to gain... +2d6 psychic sneak attack, I believe (just off the top of my head).
    Disappearing: Wraithstrike is a nigh-broken spell. Granting extended+ wraithstrike is just ridiculous.
    It should manifest as a psion equal to its class levels-1.
    Telekinetic force? Might want to make a similar but weaker ability that scales up.
    "The Unbodied is a master spy by nature"
    Um. Where did you get this? The unbodied is more of an elevated being, a philosopher. Also, it's kindof a weak ability- just dimension hop as an su, really.
    Assume appearance: Juuuust copy the changeling's ability. Transcribed below:
    Minor Change Shape (Su): Changelings have the
    supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though
    using a disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not
    their possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor
    physical alteration of a changeling’s facial features, skin
    color and texture, and size, within the limits described
    for the spell. A changeling can use this ability at will,
    and the alteration lasts until she changes shape again. A
    changeling reverts to her natural form when killed. A true
    seeing spell reveals her natural form. Using this ability is a
    full-round action.
    Skills: *When using its minor change shape ability, a
    changeling gets a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise
    checks.
    For simplicity's sake. Though you could extend it to creatures within one step of the unbodied's size.
    Needs more abilities. Also, hide mind? It'd be good for what you're going for.
    Anyways, the unbodied always struck me as much more similar to beguiler-meets-psion-plus-incorporeal than rogue. What did you see as particularly rogue-y about it?
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2011-03-01 at 11:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Do tell me who this whistleblower is so that I can smack them in the face for being an uptight guy in a monkey suit.
    ...Or something like that.
    Man, I don't remember. You can scroll back through the thread as well as I can.

    Edit: Looks like it was Kyuubi. I knew I was arguing with someone but didn't remember who.

    Yes, but this is eldritch blast... with so much more!
    It isn't affected by SR. It has 100% effectiveness against incorporeal/ethereal creatures. It doesn't provoke AoOs. And it apparently has a range of "if you can see them, you can hit them".
    It's not that it's horribly powerful. It's that it's horribly reliable.
    It's also pretty boring and should likely be scrapped entirely.
    Yeah, but it's horribly reliable tiny damage, and there's no way to get it higher unlike other reliable damage options. It's like if the Mailman only delivered to Tinytowne. I can't imagine anyone dipping for it because it's easier for dang near any class to get better options for the majority of situations where it'd be of benefit.

    I can get behind "too boring", though. I liked the at-will Concussion Blast but OMG D6ES.

    I've said the exact same rant. Or, similar enough.
    "OMG 10d6 SO POWERFUL!!!"
    "Ummm... yeah, 35 damage."
    "..."
    It's at-will d6es that really scare people. To which I say, so what? A fistful of d6es at-will ain't gonna break the game. People are more scared of at-wills than is generally justified; nearly any combat ability benefits very little from being at-will as opposed to a sufficiently high x/day. Powers which benefit disproportionately from at-will usage are those which can be piled on without the bottleneck of actions, but Concussion Blast ain't on that short list. All that gets from it is less bookkeeping.

    Not to those who are critiquing it.
    Tragedy/finger/comedy/manhole cover. Like I said, the dude needs to get a better changelog going or the comedy routine will continue.
    Last edited by Benly; 2011-03-01 at 11:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Do tell me who this whistleblower is so that I can smack them in the face for being an uptight guy in a monkey suit.
    ...Or something like that.
    I was the one against it. I didn't have a problem with it being a psi like ability, I had a problem with it being at will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Unbodied:
    You could totally swing incorporeal at an earlier time. 5th level?
    Stacking: first of all, a first time reader might not get the stacking. Copy the usual multiclassing stacking rules (which even then people often don't get).
    Sneak attack... eh. Stacking that strikes me as unnecessary. Also a little too powerful, because then you take a 1 level dip in rogue to suddenly gain +3d6 sneak attack. And then you take a dip in lurk to gain... +2d6 psychic sneak attack, I believe (just off the top of my head).
    Disappearing: Wraithstrike is a nigh-broken spell. Granting extended+ wraithstrike is just ridiculous.
    It should manifest as a psion equal to its class levels-1.
    Telekinetic force? Might want to make a similar but weaker ability that scales up.
    "The Unbodied is a master spy by nature"
    Um. Where did you get this? The unbodied is more of an elevated being, a philosopher. Also, it's kindof a weak ability- just dimension hop as an su, really.
    Assume appearance: Juuuust copy the changeling's ability. Transcribed below:

    For simplicity's sake. Though you could extend it to creatures within one step of the unbodied's size.
    Needs more abilities. Also, hide mind? It'd be good for what you're going for.
    Anyways, the unbodied always struck me as much more similar to beguiler-meets-psion-plus-incorporeal than rogue. What did you see as particularly rogue-y about it?
    I dunno, giving them such incorporeality at fifth level, which I do, is already fairly low, considering its advantages.

    Okay, I'll copy the standard stacking. Regarding stacking for SA, you're right, it may not be necessary, but I feel like if it's going to go into something it'll go into Psychic Rogue, which is already getting less SA than usual. How about something like only stacking with Psychic Rogue or Lurk for those purposes, and it may only stack with one class' SA?

    Wraithstrike will negate natural armor and armor, which is a powerful ability for a rogue-ish character (see below) because it enforces its ability to hit well, important for its . It's limited to half their Cha mod, so a maximum of two rounds duration at first level, and not getting much more than that until 9th. I'll move it up a couple levels, keep it at 1/2 Cha mod duration all the way through, change the action so it's taking a more important one away from them, and make it a times/day/HD ability, as well as a PP cost, so they don't get so many uses and it lasts a smaller amount of time.

    I thought that casting as a class-x was frowned upon here? That being said, I'd rather give it a small suite of useful abilities than near full manifester progression (mind this gives incorporeality eventually, and the Uncarnate, which also does that, loses many more manifester levels).

    The telekinetic force is nothing more than an excuse for it to be able to interact with its environment and weild a weapon, not an actual ability. I should, however, say something like for the purposes of carrying capacity it has an effective Str score of 10+2 per 5HD. Is that okay?

    I got the "master spies" thing from the bit right under "Unbodied as Characters," which calls them "Supreme spies, the unbodied infiltrate enemy territory, impersonate leaders, and probe enemies’ minds for thoughts and plans." That said, I shall give them the hide mind ability, correct, as well as some detect thoughts thing to fit that flavor text. It doesn't really call them philosophers, but the bit that does designate that is why I gave them all knowledge as class skills.

    That being said, I agree it's a bit weak. However, it fits with incorporeality, it's definitely a useful utility move, and that means I can pair it with something slightly stronger. The Wraithstrike ability, perhaps?

    I'll use the Changeling's text, okay, but I would like to keep the extra ability to make it completely convincing, allowing for a bit of psionic flavor to it, and to make it an "active" choice.

    I will give it a Hide Mind ability, and whatever else is suggested that I think would fit.

    I think you might be right that it's more beguiler than rogue, now that I think about it. Wasn't in my mind at the time of creation, though, and for most purposes they fill the same role of sneak and skill monkey, with one being about the spells and the other slightly more about damage/evasiveness. That being said, I wanted to give them a clear role, and if they were to multiclass with beguiler, well, there's nothing I could give them to stack anyway, so I figured I would give them the option of rogue-ing. Unless, of course, there's something you can think of that I can't. And that just makes me think that it should be ... well, a Psychic Rogue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    I dunno, giving them such incorporeality at fifth level, which I do, is already fairly low, considering its advantages.
    Maybe. I tend to underestimate the powers of incorporeality. Talk to Hyudra about it?

    Okay, I'll copy the standard stacking. Regarding stacking for SA, you're right, it may not be necessary, but I feel like if it's going to go into something it'll go into Psychic Rogue, which is already getting less SA than usual. How about something like only stacking with Psychic Rogue or Lurk for those purposes, and it may only stack with one class' SA?
    Um.
    You're incorporeal. Why are you sneak attacking at all?

    Wraithstrike will negate natural armor and armor, which is a powerful ability for a rogue-ish character (see below) because it enforces its ability to hit well, important for its . It's limited to half their Cha mod, so a maximum of two rounds duration at first level, and not getting much more than that until 9th. I'll move it up a couple levels, keep it at 1/2 Cha mod duration all the way through, change the action so it's taking a more important one away from them, and make it a times/day/HD ability, as well as a PP cost, so they don't get so many uses and it lasts a smaller amount of time.
    Yes, it's a powerful ability.
    It's a very, VERY powerful ability.
    It's a nigh-broken ability.
    Enforcing ability to hit well? That's why you make things flat footed. Touch attacks are really, really good. Like, silly good. Like, +5 AB touch attack is about as good as a +12 AB non-touch attack.

    I thought that casting as a class-x was frowned upon here? That being said, I'd rather give it a small suite of useful abilities than near full manifester progression (mind this gives incorporeality eventually, and the Uncarnate, which also does that, loses many more manifester levels).
    Umm... noooo. Just for monsters that don't have it anyways. Those that do by all rights SHOULD have the caster levels. I mean, I've given a handful of my classes casting levels- marrutact & psionic illithid stand out.

    The telekinetic force is nothing more than an excuse for it to be able to interact with its environment and weild a weapon, not an actual ability. I should, however, say something like for the purposes of carrying capacity it has an effective Str score of 10+2 per 5HD. Is that okay?
    Umm... It has a strength score anyways until it gains incorporeality.

    That being said, I agree it's a bit weak. However, it fits with incorporeality, it's definitely a useful utility move, and that means I can pair it with something slightly stronger. The Wraithstrike ability, perhaps?
    Well, the thing is, if you're giving it manifesting levels most class abilities are essentially a formality, so long as you make them worth whatever you're losing.

    I'll use the Changeling's text, okay, but I would like to keep the extra ability to make it completely convincing, allowing for a bit of psionic flavor to it, and to make it an "active" choice.
    But there's already rules for that. It's called disguise.
    In the midst of combat? Not if they're any good at shells it's not.

    I think you might be right that it's more beguiler than rogue, now that I think about it. Wasn't in my mind at the time of creation, though, and for most purposes they fill the same role of sneak and skill monkey, with one being about the spells and the other slightly more about damage/evasiveness. That being said, I wanted to give them a clear role, and if they were to multiclass with beguiler, well, there's nothing I could give them to stack anyway, so I figured I would give them the option of rogue-ing. Unless, of course, there's something you can think of that I can't. And that just makes me think that it should be ... well, a Psychic Rogue.
    Telepath. It's the closest class I can think of to beguiler.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Enforcing ability to hit well? That's why you make things flat footed. Touch attacks are really, really good. Like, silly good. Like, +5 AB touch attack is about as good as a +12 AB non-touch attack.
    At the mid levels onwards, I'd rather have the +5 touch attack. Touch attacks have the curious distinction of being the only attack vector which gets, on average, more reliable as CR increases.

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    Drow Changes, March 1, 2011:
    • Removed the scaling dazzle. You're now dazzled for one round afterwards, and even that is removed if you have a hood or sundark goggles.
    • Removed the 2 round diplomacy from Noble Caste Drow, where you could use diplomacy with two consecutive rounds of swift actions in combat.
    • Warrior caste drow no longer convert any and all ¾ BAB classes to full BAB. Instead, for every 4 HD you get, you can change a level of ¾ BAB class to have full BAB instead. This lets you dip in a ¾ BAB class (monk, rogue, hexblade) without gimping your BAB, which was the goal.
    • Mage caste drow now work the other way around. Use a cantrip alongside a level 3 spell, faerie fire alongside a level 5 or darkness alongside a level 7 (with restrictions).
    • Devout caste drow no longer gains wild empathy (vermin) in exchange for her level 0 spells, but now exchanges turn undead for turn spider (or scorpion if xen'drik drow).


    Monstrous Spider Changes, March 1st, 2011:
    • Noted that poison damage to AC can't reduce AC to a negative.
    • Changed Eerie Chitter so the better result makes foes frightened (was going from shaken to panicked, before).
    • Added a new ability under Silk Lattice, the Gallows Lariat. Lets you encircle someone's throat with a noose. Razor Wire now has a way to decapitate again.
    • Added Spiderbraid under Silk Strand, letting the Spider make lengths of rope with her web uses. It just makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Maybe. I tend to underestimate the powers of incorporeality. Talk to Hyudra about it?


    Will do.

    Um.
    You're incorporeal. Why are you sneak attacking at all?

    What do you mean? I'm attempting to ensure they don't get shafted by loss of weapon use, which means they should be allowed to sneak attack ... why shouldn't they be able to sneak attack?

    Yes, it's a powerful ability.
    It's a very, VERY powerful ability.
    It's a nigh-broken ability.
    Enforcing ability to hit well? That's why you make things flat footed. Touch attacks are really, really good. Like, silly good. Like, +5 AB touch attack is about as good as a +12 AB non-touch attack.

    Okay, I'll give them a way to make opponents flat-footed instead. But that just makes me feel like they're more rogue-ish ...

    Umm... noooo. Just for monsters that don't have it anyways. Those that do by all rights SHOULD have the caster levels. I mean, I've given a handful of my classes casting levels- marrutact & psionic illithid stand out.

    Well, if you say so, I'll give them Telepath manifesting-1, but I feel kinda uncomfortable about it. Again, it gains incorporeality, which the Psion Uncarnate has to lose several manifesting levels for, alongside gaining a few slightly more terrible abilities ... I mean, why wouldn't you take this class in that case if you were going telepath? It gets a buttload of better abilities than the Uncarnate as well as nearly full manifesting. Much better than a few bonus feats.

    Umm... It has a strength score anyways until it gains incorporeality.

    Which is why it only gets its telepathic stuff when it's incorporeal, where otherwise it wouldn't be able to use a weapon at all.

    Well, the thing is, if you're giving it manifesting levels most class abilities are essentially a formality, so long as you make them worth whatever you're losing.

    But incorporeality really gets you a lot of bonuses. 50% miss chance from pretty much everything but force effects, and another 20% if you hide in a wall or something. It gives some of the best mobility you could ask for. It auto-succeeds on Move Silently checks. Again, things a sneaker would want more than anyone else.

    But there's already rules for that. It's called disguise.
    In the midst of combat? Not if they're any good at shells it's not.

    From the SRD:

    Action
    Creating a disguise requires 1d3×10 minutes of work.

    It's meant to be a fun, useful ability in combat, yes. If your opponents are good at shells, it might be not useful. If they aren't, it isn't. Note I mentioned a 50% chance to target the wrong one.


    Telepath. It's the closest class I can think of to beguiler.

    Again, I'm reluctant, but I'll give them telepath-1 casting if you insist on it.
    Frankly, for psionics, I actually think my description is less confusing than what I see in, say Psurlon. It specifically calls out everything that it gains benefits for. The only reason that it's longer is because psionics is a bit more complex than arcane/divine casting, because you have to keep track of so many more things.

    Edit: Also, you know who else gets touch attacks at about that rate? Any spellcaster specializing in rays, and they get them at range. Wraithstrike actually isn't that unbalancing, now that I think about it. It makes it easier to hit, yes. With your steel weapon, as opposed to scaling damage. You're very likely to hit, yes, but it actually isn't conferring as much bonus as you suggest, unless it's taking the Psi Rogue route to assure hits, in which case it's actually less powerful than flat-footing, where you get guaranteed sneak attack.
    Last edited by mootoall; 2011-03-02 at 12:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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  27. - Top - End - #957
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    @ Wraithstrike, just as an example... you're up against a hill giant.
    Standard Hill Giant AC, 20. CR7, so you've got, what, +10 to hit? Hit on a 10 or better? 50/50?

    Now let's make your attack wraithstrike. Hill Giant touch AC? 8... so let's power attack for as much as we can get away with. Woo, bonus damage up the ying-yang, and you're going to get pretty much guaranteed hits so long as you're not being dumb.

    @ Incorporeality: Hide half-inside the floor/wall ceiling, get 20% concealment. Be incorporeal, get 50% miss chance on attacks against you. Take only 40% of the hits you otherwise would Ignore difficult terrain, ignore the worst parts of obstacles, ignore walls, walk through doors and unlatch them from the other side. Combat not going your way and you're about to die? Hide inside an object for total concealment. 100% move silently. Can't be tripped, can't be grappled.

    For an example of a creature that gets incorporeality at a low level and , arguably, works, see the Ghost. It has a pretty huge handicap to tote around (namely, its own corpse, which is vulnerable to attack).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 12:41 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #958
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Wraithstrike, just as an example... you're up against a hill giant.

    Standard Hill Giant AC, 20. CR7, so you've got, what, +10 to hit? Hit on a 10 or better? 50/50?

    Now let's make your attack wraithstrike. Hill Giant touch AC? 8... so let's power attack for -5. Woo, bonus damage up the ying-yang, and you're going to get pretty much guaranteed hits even with that.

    @ Incorporeality: Hide half-inside the floor/wall ceiling, get 20% concealment. Be incorporeal, get 50% miss chance on attacks against you. Take only 40% of the hits you otherwise would Ignore difficult terrain, ignore the worst parts of obstacles, ignore walls, walk through doors and unlatch them from the other side. Combat not going your way and you're about to die? Hide inside an object for total concealment. 100% move silently. Can't be tripped, can't be grappled.

    For an example of a creature that gets incorporeality at a low level and , arguably, works, see the Ghost. It has a pretty huge handicap to tote around (namely, its own corpse, which is vulnerable to attack).
    Yes. If you've got power attack as an Unbodied I'd be wondering a bit, but fine, let's say you do. Let's say we take Gorgon's suggestion and level in Telepath after finishing up Unbodied. I can now wraithstrike with my melee attacks! So I can hit him for a guaranteed 1d8+enhancement bonus damage! Yay!

    Not overpowering if we take Gorgon's telepath suggestion.

    If we look at Psi Rogue without SA stacking now: My Unbodied can hit nearly automatically now still! Amazing! For funsies, let's say I'm soloing this guy, so I'm level 7 myself. Guaranteed hit! Sweet! So I get my rapier damage, 1d6 SA, and let's say shortsword with another 1d6 SA. That's 4d6 damage at level 7. Weren't we discussing this earlier?

    So, I wouldn't say that's awful if we take only the non-stacking SA.

    Now, I'm an Unbodied with stacking SA and with levels in Psi Rogue. +3d6 SA! Amazing! So that's 10d6 total guaranteed damage at level 7. Pretty powerful, right? 35 damage, you said you calculated, Gordondantess? That's assuming your level is the same as the CR of the creature presented. It's taking me three to four rounds to kill this hill giant alone, when it's at my CR. If I'm tackling it at literally ANY LOWER LEVEL, I'm dealing only base weapon damage +2d6 SA damage. If I'm in the right place. Hardly overpowered.

    Edit to address incorporeality:

    At these low levels, you're sacrificing a full round to become incorporeal for a very short time, for a limited number of uses per day, and it gradually gets to the point where you're on par with the Uncarnate.

    Edit edit: Those calculations, also, are done assuming that the rogues would be using a dual wielding strategy.
    Last edited by mootoall; 2011-03-02 at 12:51 AM.
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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  29. - Top - End - #959
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    *snippy*
    But at the same time it becomes a silly good dip for pretty much every melee class ever.
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  30. - Top - End - #960
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    But at the same time it becomes a silly good dip for pretty much every melee class ever.
    Which is why I decided to move it to third level, as I said, base its duration off ½ a mental stat that is the quintessential dump stat for meleers, and make it usable only 1/day/3HD.
    Avatar by zimmerwald1915

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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