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  1. - Top - End - #1201
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Thanks for that Gorgon. Will go fix the Vivisector right up.

  2. - Top - End - #1202
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Disclaimer: I'm not a council member, just a semi-useful OCD homunculus. Nothing I say is official, particularly if it's not regarding a specific grammatical error. You are under no obligation to make any of the changes I suggest, and no offense is intended by anything that follows.

    Phase Wasp cleanup:
    • Before the beginning: "Added changelog for jovoc. Here's something else" needs to be deleted. See the how-to: nothing in the post above the monster.
    • Before the beginning: "d6 HD" needs to go inside the spoiler. Recommend changing it to "Hit Die: d6".
    • ...okay, on second thought, scratch the point-by-point; there's way too many little minor things. I'm going to quote it, fix it, and PM it to The Winter King ready to copy-paste in and replace his current post. Going to have to wait till tomorrow. Sorry. There was more there than it looked like and I've got to get off the computer. G'night y'all.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-06 at 08:46 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  3. - Top - End - #1203
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Goodnight Psyborg, thank you for your efforts as a useful OCD homonculus.

  4. - Top - End - #1204
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus View Post
    Hmm... Modron as per Outsider or Modron as a Construct (or both)? They've been statted up both ways, I believe.
    As an Outsider. However, now that I look at the little buggers they seem a bit intimidating. They just seem to gain and lose abilities without rhyme or reason! So instead I'm thinking that the Modrons should be for later when I actually have a few monster classes done. Instead, I think I'll do a Grick.

  5. - Top - End - #1205
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I imagine that with the gaining and losing of abilities, the modrons would be individual creatures rather than a steady progression through the classes of modron.

  6. - Top - End - #1206
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Aye, evolving from a triangular prism to a cube is really damn strange. Quadrones forever! Particularly broken ones. >.>

    "I think therefore I am... I think."
    Never can find my towel...

    So it goes.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    Forgot who did my avatar, sorry! >.<

  7. - Top - End - #1207
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, yeah. But Modrons change forms when they get 'promoted'. It's sort of what they do.
    Also, Nordom was definitely one of the coolest allies to ever appear in a video game, in my opinion.

    EDIT: Alright, the rough draft of the Grick is finished. I think I'll do Assassin Vine next.
    Last edited by Scio; 2011-03-07 at 11:45 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #1208
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Grick

    Monster Class
    SRD

    Class:
    Spoiler
    Show

    HD: D8

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
    Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Grick Body, Magic Tentacles, Rocky Camouflage, +1 Str.

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Rubbery Hide, Drag Them Off, Ambush Predator, +1 Tentacle, +1 Dex.

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Scent, Masticate, Element of Surprise, +1 Tentacle, +1 Str, +1 Dex.
    [/table]

    Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at first level.
    Class Skills: The Grick’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

    Proficiencies: The Grick is proficient only with its own natural weapons.

    Grick Body: The Grick loses all other racial bonuses and becomes an Aberration. It gains Aberration traits, granting it Darkvision out 60 feet. Gricks are initially medium sized creatures with a base land speed of 30' and a climb speed of 20', possessing two tentacles that deal 1d4 + Str modifier damage and Natural Armor equal to their Con modifier. A Grick has Undercommon as a starting language, with additional languages for a high Int score as normal. A Grick gains an additional tentacle attack at 2nd and 3rd level.

    Attribute Increase: The Grick gains +1 to Strength at levels 1 and 3, and +1 to Dexterity at levels 2 and 3 for a total increase of +2 Strength and +2 Dexterity at third level.

    Magic Tentacles(Su.): A Grick's tentacles have an enhancement bonus equal to its HD/4.

    Tentacle Hands(Ex.): While a Grick has no real limbs to speak of, it can use it's tentacles as primitive manipulators. These cannot perform any task more complicated than turning a doorknob.

    Rocky Camouflage(Ex.): At level, first Grick has a bonus on Hide checks equal to 1/2 it's HD while underground or on stony terrain. In addition, a Grick can use the Hide skill even when it does not have cover or concealment, but only while underground or on stony terrain.

    Rubbery Hide(Ex.): At 2nd level, Grick gains DR/- equal to ½ its HD.

    Drag Them Off(Ex.): From 2nd level onwards, the Grick can move up to half its base land speed or climb speed, regardless of whether it is encumbered, grappling or masticating a foe. It doesn't need to make an opposed move check to move while grappling/masticating.

    Scent(Ex.): At 3rd level, a Grick gains scent, as the monster ability. A Grick is automatically aware of any nonmagical conditions affecting a creature within range of it's scent.
    Spoiler
    Show
    This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

    A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

    The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

    A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

    Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

    Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

    False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.


    Masticate(Ex.): The Grick gains a bite attack. Further, it gains a special improved grab when attacking with just its bite. This doesn't lead into a grapple attack the foe, however, but segues into a Masticate attack, which is like grapple except the Grick chooses either Strength or Dexterity: It and its opponent each make opposed checks using that attribute instead of grapple checks. Further, any time the Grick delivers a bite attack as part of the Masticate attack (that is, in place of the typical unarmed strike), the Grick heals itself for the same amount.

    Ambush Predator(Ex.): At 2nd level, Grick takes no penalty to Hide and Move Silently for moving at full speed. Additionally, a Grick gains a bonus equal to half it's HD on grapple checks, but only if the Grick's opponent is flatfooted

    Element of Surprise(Ex.): The Grick always acts in a surprise round and gains a bonus to initiative checks equal to its Dexterity mod (in addition to that which is already applied). At 12HD, if there wouldn't be a surprise round, there is one anyways, during which only the Grick may act.

    Comments
    Spoiler
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    So yeah, this is the Grick. I'm thinking of having it get a new tentacle for each level in the Grick class instead of getting all of them at once. The weapon proficiencies thing is so it can still use weapons without causing as many balance issues. The reason it doesn't have a bite attack is because it's supposed to have a really weak jaw. Frankly, my biggest problem is the fact that it has almost no active abilities at all. I just can't The Grick gains proficiency with its natural weapons.seem to think of anything.


    Changelog
    Spoiler
    Show

    March 7th, ~10:00
    • Class Written

    March 7th, ~3:00
    • Removed ability to hide in plain sight
    • Made Tentacle Hands it's own ability instead of lumping it in with Grick Body
    • Clarified how size factors in to the Chow Down ability
    • Changed the Grick from four levels long to three

    March 7th, ~4:00
    • Proofreading

    March 23rd, ~5:00
    • Copypasted Hyudra's improved abilities and such
    • Added Hyudra's suggestions(see this post)


    Last edited by Scio; 2011-03-23 at 04:01 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #1209
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by NineThePuma View Post
    Response in green.
    Kobolds get 3 natural attacks yes... at a glorious -4 strength, requiring more investment to overcome.
    Frog in the playground.

    My homebrewer's extended signature.

    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  10. - Top - End - #1210
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Kobolds get 3 natural attacks yes... at a glorious -4 strength, requiring more investment to overcome.
    At level 1 it really doesn't make a big difference whether you have 3 attacks or 1.

    Generally more attacks = weaker damage per attack and decreased attack bonus, so your greater chance of hitting from rolling more times ends up being as effective or less effective than the dude with the two-handed sword who tends to kill things in one hit.

    Also, what's so bad about having a full round action that matters at level 1? As it is, most people have 1 attack at level 1 so they don't really care about tactics or anything because their standard action attack is as impressive as their full attack. Standing still and attacking is the exact same as moving to someone and attacking.

    Insert dude with multiple natural weapons who suffers large penalties for using them all and probably has a small die size for damage on all of them as well.

    Yes a large number of natural attacks can eventually become a handy and effective routine of violence, but last I looked Multi-Attack had a BAB requirement > 1, so eating a -5 for subsequent attacks is crippling to the point of near-irrelevance at level 1. I'm watching it in my current D&D group, the Totemist WILL be really cool one day but for the moment she mostly has a bunch of 1d4 claw attacks that rarely hit and rarely exceed 10 damage (This is level 4).

    At level 1, 3 natural attacks is just OK, and unless they're all the same type (3 slams, for example) then you take a vicious -5 to attack for each after the first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scio View Post
    Grick
    -The class should be 3 levels long because the original Grick is CR 3.
    -Perhaps start with two tentacles then upgrade to four, or start with the bite and gain the tentacles later? Honestly the Grick's attack routine is lame no matter what. Roll four times to roll... d4s? Yuck. Perhaps you've done the best thing, giving it four at level 1. It gains a meaningful full attack to make up for the pain of rolling d4s (Can you tell I don't like d4s?)
    -Does "Magic Tentacles" mean they overcome damage reduction as if they were magical or just that they can be enchanted? I was going to say you should hold off and give this at a later level, but the attack routine IS lame and counting as magic is a mercy.
    -Proficiencies should be separate from the "Grick Body" feature. They should be under a heading of their own just like every other base class.
    -Rocky Camouflage's hide bonus seems kinda high
    -Gaining Hide in Plain Sight at level 1 is actually pretty insane, especially as part of another class feature. I've had Hide in Plain Sight at an extremely low level, and it ends up working like a greater invisibility that's active about half the time. Furthermore, Hide in Plain Sight seems weird on an ambush creature, but that's just my opinion.
    -Chow Down needs some clarification. Is the corpse gone afterward? If so, why have a damage value? Does it take longer to eat larger opponents? CAN you eat larger opponents? It is also slightly crazy that the Grick can consume a body in 6 seconds.
    -Ambush Predator is a neat ability that has nothing to do with ambushing. Perhaps give the Grick perception bonuses of some kind instead?
    -Element of Surprise: So the grick is never surprised? Never flat-footed? In a surprise round it's likely you're unaware of your assailants, so how can you act if you are not aware of anything? This comes with no perception bonus or anything, so "always acting in the surprise round" means next to nothing.
    Last edited by Bloody Initiate; 2011-03-07 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Added the Grick critique to avoid double-posting

  11. - Top - End - #1211
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Responses in green.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Initiate View Post
    -The class should be 3 levels long because the original Grick is CR 3.

    Seriously? Ugh, why does this always happen?


    -Perhaps start with two tentacles then upgrade to four, or start with the bite and gain the tentacles later? Honestly the Grick's attack routine is lame no matter what. Roll four times to roll... d4s? Yuck. Perhaps you've done the best thing, giving it four at level 1. It gains a meaningful full attack to make up for the pain of rolling d4s (Can you tell I don't like d4s?)

    Well, D4's do suck, but the point of Magic Tentacles is so you can get something like shocking or flaming.

    -Does "Magic Tentacles" mean they overcome damage reduction as if they were magical or just that they can be enchanted? I was going to say you should hold off and give this at a later level, but the attack routine IS lame and counting as magic is a mercy.

    It's supposed to mean that they can be enchanted as if they were magic weapons. I'll make sure to clarify.

    -Proficiencies should be separate from the "Grick Body" feature. They should be under a heading of their own just like every other base class.

    Eh, ok.


    -Rocky Camouflage's hide bonus seems kinda high

    Well, the original monster has a +8 bonus, and 8/4=2 (I was using 3.0 again), so I thought that it should scale.

    -Gaining Hide in Plain Sight at level 1 is actually pretty insane, especially as part of another class feature. I've had Hide in Plain Sight at an extremely low level, and it ends up working like a greater invisibility that's active about half the time. Furthermore, Hide in Plain Sight seems weird on an ambush creature, but that's just my opinion.

    Ok, I'll make sure to change it to just hiding,

    -Chow Down needs some clarification. Is the corpse gone afterward? If so, why have a damage value? Does it take longer to eat larger opponents? CAN you eat larger opponents? It is also slightly crazy that the Grick can consume a body in 6 seconds.

    Okay, I'll make sure to clarify. And honestly, it just that it doesn't work well gameplay-wise to take more than six seconds either. Though I guess it could represent the Grick flipping out and shoving as much meat in it's face as possible. also, the reason that it still has a damage value is because it can also be used on unconscious or disabled opponents, so it's sort of like a coup de grace lite.


    -Ambush Predator is a neat ability that has nothing to do with ambushing. Perhaps give the Grick perception bonuses of some kind instead?

    What's a perception bonus? I assume you are talking about spot and listen bonuses, but I'm not sure. And yes, that name makes no sense but I just really liked the name and couldn't think of any abilities to go with it

    -Element of Surprise: So the grick is never surprised? Never flat-footed? In a surprise round it's likely you're unaware of your assailants, so how can you act if you are not aware of anything? This comes with no perception bonus or anything, so "always acting in the surprise round" means next to nothing.

    Eh, I dunno. You're probably right. I mean, it could be changed to always going first in a surprise round, like the Dread Fang of Lolth, but that just seems broken.
    Last edited by Scio; 2011-03-07 at 03:38 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #1212
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Holding off on a full proofread of Grick until it's mostly-finished, but I would like to compliment Scio: in terms of spelling, punctuation, and general formatting consistency, that is the single most polished initial post I've seen since I've been proofreading. Good work.

    Two tiny things that did jump out at me: "HD: D#" needs the # replaced with the die size, and the "it's" in Proficiencies ought to be "its". (Seems like that one gets everyone sooner or later. *chuckle*)

    As an FYI, I'm about to fix the Phase Wasp and send it to The Winter King.
    delete Teemo.

  13. - Top - End - #1213
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Though it's not actually on the list, my younger brother has wanted to play a Gargoyle for some time, and since his character just died (to spiders) he's going to start using my version of the monster class (starting at level one, tommorow). I'll try to let you know how it goes.

  14. - Top - End - #1214
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Phase Wasp clean-up complete and PM'd to The Winter King for copy/paste into original post.

    Question: What's the best way to handle the changelog when I'm editing other people's monsters? I added the following to the Phase Wasp's:
    Spoiler
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    3/7: Proofread by Psyborg. Spelling, grammar, punctuation, and formatting corrected. In addition, the following non-trivial changes were made:
    • Attribute Bonus was missing entirely, and was added.
    • Phase Powers: "...the number of missiles are not limited by Caster Level." changed to "the number of missiles is not capped.", which seemed to be the intended meaning. (The other possibility is that the number of missiles is not dependent on Caster Level, in which case the number of missiles would need to be specified.)
    • Phase Powers: The reduction in the delay time for Magic Missile was rewritten for clarity, and a minimum one-round delay was added to line up with perceived intent.
    • Significant portions of Buzz Song were rewritten for clarity. Since the perceived intent was to stack fully where Bardic Music was concerned, Phase Wasp levels now stack with Bard levels for determining the effectiveness of BM abilities, as well as access to new BM abilities and BM uses per day.
    Does that seem acceptable?

    Thanks,

    Psy
    delete Teemo.

  15. - Top - End - #1215
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Which would be a better limit on incorporeability, duration or use/day or maybe even use/rest? One one hand, duration is a softer cap, giving a person more flexibility to when they spend their time, while also making it easier to define.On the other hand, use/day or use/rest limits provide an avenue for those who want to stick with incorporeability extensively, while punishing those who want to switch between the two (which you have to, since all your equipment drops to the ground when you turn incorporeal).

  16. - Top - End - #1216
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    In an effort to conserve space, I'll omit a reply on any points that I have no comment on other than noting their completion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    • Formatting throws me for a loop. I can't complain, exactly - the ability score increases having their own column is nice and tidy - but it does go against convention and takes getting used to.
    Well, that is commented on every time I put a creature out, but it's yet to be a deal breaker. It's kind of a personality quirk, to be honest, just having ability bonuses grouped in with the other abilities bugs me. Since it's a reoccurring thing I always feel better being able to easy discerns ability bonus types and placements at a glance. Perhaps an interesting thought for others to use as convention? I honestly believe it makes the entries much nicer to look at. Either way, so long as it's not a deal breaker or too much of a problem, I'd like to keep it this way at least for my monsters. I can live with it on others, but it feels wrong to do something that would end up bugging me every time I looked at something I created.

    • Five rounds is long enough to not matter. Shorten to three? Or even two?
    I mainly added that because the original creature's ability didn't have an off trigger. I choose five rounds because it was a round enough number, and was indeed long enough to not really matter. I wanted to avoid a nebulous term such as 'while in combat' and preserve that always on sort of flavour while giving it a sort of out for the player if they don't want it active for some weird reason.

    • "A Justice Archon always knows the general direction and distance" - elaborate? Like, maybe state the Justice Archon is aware the target is north, east, south, west, northeast, from her current position, and either 'close, not far, far or distant' from her?
    Alright, this took a bit of thinking and I'm not completely happy with the new wording but I think this should be a step forward.

    • "The target does not benefit from magical concealment or invisibility against the Archon, and cannot evade her sight with a hide check." - I don't know that I like this. Shuts down a lot of monsters.
    • "The target still befits from cover's other bonuses" - reword to 'from the other bonuses of cover.'
    Alright, I've altered the functionality of this ability, hopefully toning it down to something more reasonable.

    • Harry - The immediate action move is a little much, even without the bonus attack. It just doesn't require any meaningful strategy or consideration of what actions to use on the Archon's part.
    Well, it does still provoke attacks of opportunity so if you're fighting multiple opponents it's something to watch out for. But I get what you're saying. I do have some thematically similar alternatives in mind, that accomplish the same sort of thing just perhaps in a better manner. So, perhaps one of these potential changes would be a step in the right direction?
    Spoiler
    Show
    1. Give the Archon a sort of pseudo reach in regards to her quarry, like +5ft for example. If the target takes an action that provokes within that radius she spends an immediate action to take a 5ft step and then make the AoO.
    2. Function it as more of a passive control, simply disallowing the quarry from taking 5ft steps while within her reach.
    3. Make both Shared Fate and Pursuit immediate actions. Essentially making it more of a tactical choice since choosing one denies you the ability to use the others.


    • Shared Fate - A little too easy to use, again, considering the sheer magnitude of the benefit. Needs to be toned down, needs more effort on the Archon's part or needs a way for the offending caster to get around it.
    I have an idea there, which I had initially disregarded because I thought it too complicated at the time. However, I've thought of a better way of phrasing it, so tell me what you think:
    Spoiler
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    "When an Archon is affected by an effect that requires a save she may take an immediate action to force the effect's user to make the same type of save (DC 10 + HD/2 + Cha Mod). Their fate against the abilities effects is shared, so long as one of them passes their save both are considered to have passed their save. If both fail they each take the normal effects of failure, even if they would normally not be subject to it."

    Making it an immediate action would also provide more of an opportunity cost, but being an immediate action in addition to the above would seem a bit too tame to me (I could just not be thinking about it correctly though).


    • Teleport six times a day at 6th level? It's a 5th level spell that you, by all rights, would be accessing at 10th. I would suggest, instead, a Dimension Door effect with a severely curtailed field of effect (any location you can see within 10' per HD) and number of uses a day (½ HD?). As you gain HD, remove the 'any location you can see' limiter, and increase the distance appropriately (ie. something like 50 + 10' per HD, then 100' +10' per HD, etc.).
    Ninth level, but yeah, I see what you mean there, that's a bit of a total brain fart on my part. I also realized I made it straight up teleport, typically these abilities only carry the user. I've made it personal only and halved the uses which should curtail things considerably I think, as compared to originally.

    • Overall, I like it more than I thought I would before starting the review.
    That's good to hear, I think, since being better is easy if your first impression was none to favourable.

    Can I ask what didn't sit well with you initially and what changed your mind?

    • That said, some power level issues (several abilities too effective given how easy they are to pull off/use) and general grammar issues crop up. I encourage you to use Psyborg's review service to get your grammar/spelling polished where necessary.
    I definitely will be, I had planned on doing so sooner but held off since you mentioned you were doing a batch critique. I felt it would be poor manners to end up doing a bunch of changes to the class while you were in the process of looking at and messing up the critique.

    Here's the change log entries for convenience:
    Spoiler
    Show

    March 6th
    • Added Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill.
    • Further clarified which attacks are available to substitute in for Justice Strike's damage.
    • Smoothed out wording for Aura of Menace and made a spelling correction.
    • Clarified the level gained in Aligned Strike's ability text.
    • Minor wording corrections to Archon's wards.
    • Spelling corrections made to Quarry.
    • Clarified Quarry's duration and what counts for witnessing a crime.
    • The shaken effect for Aura of Menace and Quarry targets clarified.
    • Aura of Protection's benefits clarified.

    March 7th
    • Reworked Quarry's base benefits.
    • Toned Shared Fate down by making it less absolute.
    • Halved uses per day on Warp, and made it self only.
    Homebrew Monster Classes:
    Arcadian Avenger|Thorn|Marrash|Justice Archon

  17. - Top - End - #1217
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemro Shivic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra
    Overall, I like it more than I thought I would before starting the review.
    That's good to hear, I think, since being better is easy if your first impression was none to favourable.

    Can I ask what didn't sit well with you initially and what changed your mind?
    Ah, more or less the fact that it was an archon and I tend to find such pretty boring flavorwise.

  18. - Top - End - #1218
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Razor Boar:

    Yes. It's still more. Oh yes, choosing between 1d8 slashing damage and 1d8 bludgeoning damage, great choice there. Now compare it to an actual PC class.

    Rename the ability. Call it something else (bloodscent? Hungry like the boar?), say it gains the scent ability (linked to the actual ability in the SRD) AND (insert additional text here). Done.

    I'd break it out by level as opposed to HD. So when it gains new defenses should be based on level? Or did you mean the whole thing?

    Then make an opposed strength check modified by size? That's pretty much what it is. Yes, the Boar is badass, but that doesn't mean nothing else is as well. I'd say something like a lizardfolk barbarian of equivalent level and heroic array should be able to hack at the boar pretty well while doing that. I'm not saying you HAVE to, I'm saying it would add to verisimilitude and be pretty cool... especially for a DM using the razor boar against their players, which, you have to admit, is going to happen just as much as actual razor boar players ('cept maybe in the case of cohorts). I think most DMs would just use the monster, not the class. Still, I guess I can add something in.

    What about a brain lock, which halts all actions physical and mental? You need to include this stuff in the ability description. I'll make a list.

    You could swing it at 1st level. I think an ideal situation would be to switch it with surge of force and give it this ability, but for all combat options (overrun, grapple, etc.) at first level. It doesn't GIVE it any combat options, but it WOULD make normally less than desirable combat options much more viable. Alright, moving this to first and rearranging other abilities slightly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Chuul
    • No first round constrict is a good add. It gives the enemy a chance, at least. Excellent.
    • Bonus damage on lurking predator is ok, but should specify what sort of damage it is. Okay.
    • "A number of times per day equal to to one third its HD..." - reword to "Once a day for every three HD it has..." Okay.
    • How many times a day can the Chuul use madness? A PBAoE SoL is pretty daunting. I'll add a limit.
    • "One of the chuul's claws grows to monstrous size, dealing damage as though the chuul was two size categories larger and is treated as a two-handed weapon for the purposes of calculating damage bonuses" - so your claw then, at seventh level, deals 4d6 + 1.5x Str damage, with improved grab, constrict and throw. Ok, I could live with that. The stun, though, is a bit much to tack onto something you're going to be doing a great deal otherwise. Hide checks are fine. Would shortening the duration be fine? Or is it just too much altogether?
    At least 10 characters.

  19. - Top - End - #1219
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Phase wasp updated by Psyborg. My thanks to him for doing that it was helpful. Also added a few more class skills: know( architecture, geography, nature) and perform.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    In interest in contributing to the advancement of monster classes other than my own, I'm looking to give comments on other as-yet-unfinished classes.

    However, in order to make sure I'm reviewing a monsters that's being actively worked on, I'll only do it for the next six to request such. I won't do any classes longer than eight levels, though, as I'm not so confident at my abilities there. I'm not a big fan of the one and two level classes either (and some of the three) so people in that range might find better comment from another source as well.
    Homebrew Monster Classes:
    Arcadian Avenger|Thorn|Marrash|Justice Archon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    If that's the case, Zemro, I would very much appreciate a review of my Centaur.

    Edit:
    Stone Giant Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Replaced old image, as the previous image was scanned poorly and had the vague shadows of text from the opposite page showing through it.
    • Fling and Inexorable Momentum changed places, for more active ability & fun earlier on.
    • Wording changed throughout, format altered to meet current standards.
    • Removed Stonecanny, which gave the ability to hide in plain sight in stony areas, and gave the Stone Giant the ability to initiate grapples through walls/cover.
    • Gave the giant more skills that fit.
    • Changelog fixed from ugly & inverse-order jumble of text to the tidy list you see here.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-08 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    If that's the case, Zemro, I would very much appreciate a review of my Centaur.
    Since the thread is over forty pages long...

    I know the post wasn't addressed to me or anything, but if he's offering to do reviews I know I personally would have a much better idea of which page my work was located on than anyone I mentioned it to, and could therefore direct them better than they could stumble about.

    I find the lack of links generally disorienting, since most of the creatures are several pages back and the official preference is that people edit their original posts rather than post new versions. You are obviously aware of this as you tend to link things, just thought maybe this one had slipped your mind.
    Last edited by Bloody Initiate; 2011-03-08 at 01:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloody Initiate View Post
    Since the thread is over thirty pages long...

    I know the post wasn't addressed to me or anything, but if he's offering to do reviews I know I personally would have a much better idea of which page my work was located on than anyone I mentioned it to, and could therefore direct them better than they could stumble about.

    I find the lack of links generally disorienting, since most of the creatures are several pages back and the official preference is that people edit their original posts rather than post new versions. You are obviously aware of this as you tend to link things, just thought maybe this one had slipped your mind.
    Like the links in unfinished monster section of the thread's first post?

    It's certainly easy enough to pop that open and then call up whatever monster I need to look at.
    Homebrew Monster Classes:
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I'll admit to not thinking of that .

    Originally I was gonna post stuff about internet speeds, but decided it's mostly irrelevant. It was also getting surprisingly technical and sidetracked.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I would appreciate a look at Half Dragon.

    Including possible suggestions.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Half-Dragon:

    -You went the brawler route, but didn't make brawling any more interesting
    -The best part is obviously the breath weapon. Getting 2d8 per 3 HD is neat, but why the "per encounter" business AND the recharge? Pick one, because having both is redundant and irrelevant. Your recharge and per encounter will cancel each other out, because you won't recharge in time to use up your per encounter uses.
    -Still on the breath weapon: I think some math here could do wonders. You'll be doing 12d8 by level 18, so why not set it up so it starts a bit stronger and ends up in roughly the same place? For example, make it "3d8 + 1d8 for every 2 HD you possess." That makes the progression less jerky (jumping up 2d8 every three levels is kinda odd), starts strong, and ends up in about the same place.
    -Getting the dragon type is cool... or at least I think that's what happens. You "gain dragon traits," but do you actually gain the dragon type? Please clarify.
    -You went the base class route, this has its own ups and downs, but leaves me wondering "what's the other half?" I think I probably would've made this a prestige class with extremely easy requirements, but maybe that messes with the guidelines (I haven't looked into the prestige class stuff)
    -What's the +1 charisma for? +1 strength sounds more like something that class will use, and even if it didn't +1 charisma wouldn't be my choice. I'd rather have another +1 con or +1 int. None of the class features use charisma. I get that dragons have good charisma, but I'm not seeing the place for it here.

    Suggestions:

    If you're going the route of customization you may as well go a little further with it. Your class picks their parent but it's the same old list. Why not grab some of the sweet breath weapons from other OGL dragons and stat them out to save the DM and the player the trouble? Example: Of course Force is way cooler than Fire, but typically has lower die sizes. Why not do that leg work so you create a balanced and customizable product?

    Aside from the breath weapon, there's not much there. The increased hp die size is neat, but it feels like a save boost would be more useful.

    Speaking of saves, why not give it two good saves and allow the parent you pick to determine which is the other? Even if you don't have the parent factor in, just a good fort save feels pretty lame. I know we aren't supposed to use the racial stats (Perfect saves and BAB for dragons and outsiders), but for a 2 level class does it have to be such a significant downgrade? You could easily give this guy d12 HD and a good will or reflex and he'd be fine.

    I said you didn't give a lot to make brawling interesting, but unfortunately my own imagination isn't coming up with much more than yours did. Perhaps a tail attack that lets you trip as a free action on a hit? It's not much of an idea, but this is just two levels of stat boosting. Even a bonus meta-breath feat would be OK.

    IIRC this class took you about an hour to make, and it feels like it. The breath weapon is neat for second level, but first level is pretty bland and needs some love. Also consider dropping the action required to use the breath weapon to swift once you have enough HD, that way it doesn't interfere with the brawling.
    Last edited by Bloody Initiate; 2011-03-08 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Added more to the breath weapon section.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    The only other OGL dragons are Prismatic/Radiant and Force.

    Seriously.

    And... Actually, I'd follow the rules for the half dragon. Which would make the Force Dragon ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Why would you follow old rules for the template AND make a new custom class? Your Half-Dragon didn't hide +8 strength somewhere I didn't see did it?

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    ... *sighs*

    'Half-Dragon' has rules in Races of the Dragon for types beyond those in core. 'Half-Force Dragon' would be broken there too.

    And I'd have to do a lot with the skills and stuff, some of it from scratch. And find a way to emulate 'Force Resistance' and freedom of movement effects.
    Last edited by NineThePuma; 2011-03-08 at 05:27 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #1230
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by NineThePuma View Post
    And I'd have to do a lot with the skills and stuff, some of it from scratch. And find a way to emulate 'Force Resistance' and freedom of movement effects.
    Then don't make half-force dragons. It wasn't my only critique.

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