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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Drawing & quartering is so tired. It's so much more fun to be creative.

    Like a mix of salt and milk on your subject's feet. Tie them down, introduce them to a goat. The goat will lick up the salt and honey, and with its rough tongue, will lick up some foot with it. Then, since goats have insatiable appetites, well, they just keep licking.

    As far as spellchecking goes, I use a built in spellchecker for firefox that leaves squiggly red lines under anything the dictionary doesn't recognize. Serves me pretty well.

    And if the its -> it's bit throws you off, just stick to his/her.
    Firstly, that's going in my "To Get" list. Goats, salt, milk, and rope.
    Secondly, all 3 creatures (Vivisector, Pandorym, Aboleth) don't have genders, or have genders so unfathomable they can rip your face off comprehending them. I'll try to use their instead.
    Lastly, Firefox sucks. I'm not touching that with a 50ft pole. Baaaaaaad memories.

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, I type on Word and spellcheck, and I believe it goes very well...

    Now please, try no to be so angry at fact you were not reviewed. If you do a little word spell check I promise I'll take a good look and make an in-depth review too. I probably should be reviewing monsters too, anyway.

    And Hyudra, I'm glad you took all in good spirit. The internet is a weird medium and people tend to grab each other's virtual throats by any preceived "offense".
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  3. - Top - End - #633
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Well, I've made changes to the Violet Fungus. Not too sure on the balance of the Fungal Variety abilities, though.

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Reviewing the Vivisector

    Scythe Hands: I like it. Oh, maybe you should put the hearing part on the Body entry…

    Vivisection: I’ll tell you why I always found the monster stupid. Because of this ability. “While you are paralyzed the monster removes some of your organs!” “OMG!” “*Rolls* Then he goes. You’re alive” “Oh!…good! What did I lose?” “Ahm…don’t know, but you’re fine without it” “*Other player* Must have been the appendix”. It was always stupid to me, and I always thought it could be a lot better. I know you’re trying to keep to the monster spirit, using exactly the same ability, but why don’t we make it have a little more sense? In my opinion there should be two kinds of vivisection, one you can perform in combat and another that you could do outside.

    Maybe you could upgrade vivisection so that at 4th level it something akin to a Death Attack? An assassin gains it two levels later than level 4, but then, it could be the big point of the monster class. Something like you rip the heart or something like that. There’s no need to use the death attack mechanic if you’re afraid. Con damage, maybe?

    In any case I believe the vivisection should be gained early and then evolve. Maybe at the level 1 version you just drew the blood of the enemy with each strike, recovering 1 or 1/5 HD in HP with each strike, don’t know a good amount, but it should probably scale with level.

    Then maybe you could gain some uses per day of an attack that deal Con damage, representing some tissue being removed, but no organs yet.

    Then at the final level you could gain the final version, that could kill, paralyze, deal damage, anything (using it only on creatures already dealt Con damage, maybe? It would be a sort of “marking” class, where you keep attacking the same foe over and over).

    Also, state somewhere that a vivisector may vivisect and feed on a dead body, since on the Lore this is the way the creature feeds. The monster must feed like this at least once every 3 days or start to suffer hunger and thirst (as any creature would). The body then becomes unsuitable for raise dead.

    As it stands, I can’t help but feel “That monster! It took my spinal cord!” “*blank stares*” “…I….got better…”

    Choice Cuts: This, however, is very cool. Unfortunately it comes late. I say it should come at level 1. If you keep vivisection like it is, I say there should be a sentence like “(…)successfully uses its Vivisection ability on a creature, and the creature dies because of it, they may scoop up the organs(…)”. This way you could keep vivisection as it is, but it only removes the organs if it kills the creature. Maybe it could gain this benefit from freshly killed creatures too (say, one hour?). Like it stands it’s a cool addition, but it comes late. Abilities should be gained soon and then improve.

    All the rest: Just what the creature already gains, so it’s cool. My problem with it is that I always found the vivisector being more of a “rogue” monster, so I don’t see the reason from running away from the aberration’s medium BAB. If you give it some kind of death attack, then seriously reduce it.


    Reviewing the Pandoryn

    Never. This thing isn't meant to be played. Sorry, but I really won't review it . Not because it's not good, I just don't buy the monster and wouldn't be able to review it in a right way...
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  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt View Post
    Well, I've made changes to the Violet Fungus. Not too sure on the balance of the Fungal Variety abilities, though.
    That link seems broken. I get a 'you do not have permission to access this page' screen.

    I did find your violet fungus though, and at a glance, it looks a bit better, but poison damage is kind of off the wall. Is it intended to do both 1d4 str and 1d4 con damage for initial damage, and 1d6 Str + 1d6 Con for secondary?

  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    No wonder the link doesn't work when you look at it... It seems that he copied the link in the wrong stage of editing.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2011-02-24 at 02:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Why the Aboleth wasn't in the previous?

    Review of the Aboleth

    As far as I understand this monster should be the brother of the archivist, a master of lore psychic monster.

    Based on that…

    Hyudra speaks about the skill list. For this monster I believe it should be able to do one of two things: Either it should A) have all skills as class skills, or B) something akin to Bardic Knack, being able to use any skill as if he had maximum cross-class ranks on it or his ranks, the better one. Please keep memory of the ages.

    "The Aboleth can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty." Should be changed to "The Aboleth can must weapons designed for a creature one size smaller."

    Just as Planned should come at 1st level, being the “attack” ability and as hyudra pointed out, being a lame level. I don’t understand, however, what it does. Reflex save and autohypnosis? I don’t get it… Maybe, if it’s the brother of the archivist, why not make it some kind o archivist knowledge?

    You could go two ways: Either A) You gain a varying bonus against the creature by succeeding on a Knowledge (that you could substitute by autohypnosis) check with a DC of 15, with bigger bonuses if you exceed by 10, by 20, etc etc. In this case you could only have one kind of bonus (AC, attack, damage, CL???), but could use the ability as move action at will. Some sort of archivist knowledge but only to yourself. or. B) You can implant the desired condition on the creature. It must make a WILL save or suffer the effect (whatever it is). It should be used some times per day as a standard action.

    Enslave the Mortals: It’s cool to have, but why not base in on Rebuke Undead in the way that you can only control creatures whose HD is your HD / 2 or your HD?

    Downed in Nostalgia: I like this but maybe the wording is a little off. Also, it should be no more powerful than Feeblemind. Maybe you could give exactly the same effect as it, but with the target being able to try to shake it every round. At later HD it could become instantaneous then.

    Hyudra said it right: The class is a little boring as it is. You should turn Just as Planned into a 1st level ability and the center of the monster, then the enslaving and feeblemind part would be options.

    All in all: There’s much to do here.
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  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiBastet View Post
    Reviewing the Vivisector

    Scythe Hands: I like it. Oh, maybe you should put the hearing part on the Body entry…

    Done

    Vivisection: I’ll tell you why I always found the monster stupid. Because of this ability. “While you are paralyzed the monster removes some of your organs!” “OMG!” “*Rolls* Then he goes. You’re alive” “Oh!…good! What did I lose?” “Ahm…don’t know, but you’re fine without it” “*Other player* Must have been the appendix”. It was always stupid to me, and I always thought it could be a lot better. I know you’re trying to keep to the monster spirit, using exactly the same ability, but why don’t we make it have a little more sense? In my opinion there should be two kinds of vivisection, one you can perform in combat and another that you could do outside.

    I...get what your saying. However, I'm not sure I can do anything short of saying "You can only use it on dead corpses". And that's just awful.

    Maybe you could upgrade vivisection so that at 4th level it something akin to a Death Attack? An assassin gains it two levels later than level 4, but then, it could be the big point of the monster class. Something like you rip the heart or something like that. There’s no need to use the death attack mechanic if you’re afraid. Con damage, maybe?

    Death Attack......I could make that work. First Con Damage, then lots of Con Damage, and then Death. We shall see.

    In any case I believe the vivisection should be gained early and then evolve. Maybe at the level 1 version you just drew the blood of the enemy with each strike, recovering 1 or 1/5 HD in HP with each strike, don’t know a good amount, but it should probably scale with level.

    Then maybe you could gain some uses per day of an attack that deal Con damage, representing some tissue being removed, but no organs yet.

    Then at the final level you could gain the final version, that could kill, paralyze, deal damage, anything (using it only on creatures already dealt Con damage, maybe? It would be a sort of “marking” class, where you keep attacking the same foe over and over).

    Eh......i'm not too fond of "marking" classes, but i'll see if I can spice up Vivisection a bit.

    Also, state somewhere that a vivisector may vivisect and feed on a dead body, since on the Lore this is the way the creature feeds. The monster must feed like this at least once every 3 days or start to suffer hunger and thirst (as any creature would). The body then becomes unsuitable for raise dead.

    I dunno. I can't think of any other classes that have the requirement "Kill someone every three days or start sucking." I'd rather not.

    As it stands, I can’t help but feel “That monster! It took my spinal cord!” “*blank stares*” “…I….got better…”

    This shall be rectified.

    Choice Cuts: This, however, is very cool. Unfortunately it comes late. I say it should come at level 1. If you keep vivisection like it is, I say there should be a sentence like “(…)successfully uses its Vivisection ability on a creature, and the creature dies because of it, they may scoop up the organs(…)”. This way you could keep vivisection as it is, but it only removes the organs if it kills the creature. Maybe it could gain this benefit from freshly killed creatures too (say, one hour?). Like it stands it’s a cool addition, but it comes late. Abilities should be gained soon and then improve.

    All the rest: Just what the creature already gains, so it’s cool. My problem with it is that I always found the vivisector being more of a “rogue” monster, so I don’t see the reason from running away from the aberration’s medium BAB. If you give it some kind of death attack, then seriously reduce it.

    I kept it full BaB because it didn't really warrant nerfing down, but if I give it the Death Attack, i'll scale it back.

    Reviewing the Pandoryn

    Never. This thing isn't meant to be played. Sorry, but I really won't review it . Not because it's not good, I just don't buy the monster and wouldn't be able to review it in a right way...

    That's a shame. Oh well.


    Replies in bold, and thanks for looking over it.

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiBastet View Post
    Why the Aboleth wasn't in the previous?

    Review of the Aboleth

    As far as I understand this monster should be the brother of the archivist, a master of lore psychic monster.

    Based on that…

    Hyudra speaks about the skill list. For this monster I believe it should be able to do one of two things: Either it should A) have all skills as class skills, or B) something akin to Bardic Knack, being able to use any skill as if he had maximum cross-class ranks on it or his ranks, the better one. Please keep memory of the ages.

    I'm not sure I like stepping on the toes of the Factotum. I'll think about it.

    "The Aboleth can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty." Should be changed to "The Aboleth can must weapons designed for a creature one size smaller."

    Will rectify.

    Just as Planned should come at 1st level, being the “attack” ability and as hyudra pointed out, being a lame level. I don’t understand, however, what it does. Reflex save and autohypnosis? I don’t get it… Maybe, if it’s the brother of the archivist, why not make it some kind o archivist knowledge?

    Swapped it round with Memory of the Eons, and Aboleth levels scale with Archivist levels, because the Aboleth and the Archivist are similar like that.

    You could go two ways: Either A) You gain a varying bonus against the creature by succeeding on a Knowledge (that you could substitute by autohypnosis) check with a DC of 15, with bigger bonuses if you exceed by 10, by 20, etc etc. In this case you could only have one kind of bonus (AC, attack, damage, CL???), but could use the ability as move action at will. Some sort of archivist knowledge but only to yourself. or. B) You can implant the desired condition on the creature. It must make a WILL save or suffer the effect (whatever it is). It should be used some times per day as a standard action.

    I threw out the Autohypnosis roll entirely. It was too easy to make anyways.

    Enslave the Mortals: It’s cool to have, but why not base in on Rebuke Undead in the way that you can only control creatures whose HD is your HD / 2 or your HD?

    Will do.

    Downed in Nostalgia: I like this but maybe the wording is a little off. Also, it should be no more powerful than Feeblemind. Maybe you could give exactly the same effect as it, but with the target being able to try to shake it every round. At later HD it could become instantaneous then.

    Yes. That works too, and saves on words.

    Hyudra said it right: The class is a little boring as it is. You should turn Just as Planned into a 1st level ability and the center of the monster, then the enslaving and feeblemind part would be options.

    All in all: There’s much to do here.


    Again, thanks :p
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2011-02-24 at 03:29 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #639
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I dunno. I can't think of any other classes that have the requirement "Kill someone every three days or start sucking." I'd rather not.
    It's called eating. Problem for the vivisector that it must eat organs. Probably fresh. It could be a cow's organs, btw. "Er, guys, you see, we've been here for five days... I'm kinda dizzy you know... Could we, you know, hunt a boar SO I CAN FEAST ON ITS ENTRAILS???" "...." "...erh...you can keep the meat" "..." "...and the bacon!"


    Unrelated: I always read "Violent Fungus" and think "WTF?"
    Last edited by DiBastet; 2011-02-24 at 03:50 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #640
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by DiBastet View Post
    It's called eating. Problem for the vivisector that it must eat organs. Probably fresh. It could be a cow's organs, btw. "Er, guys, you see, we've been here for five days... I'm kinda dizzy you know... Could we, you know, hunt a boar SO I CAN FEAST ON ITS ENTRAILS???" "...." "...erh...you can keep the meat" "..." "...and the bacon!"
    Fine. But it'll need feeding a week at the most, at the most, because it would be unplayable in most campaigns if they had to go slaughter a few peasants every 3 days or so.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I was talking this to my wife while she's baking a cake, and she laughed and asked me to translate from portuguese you this:

    "*Laugh* I know he's afraid of needing to eat, but point him to that page on the SRD about starvation, and say this to him: Feasting on pig's entrails isn't different from eating some Italian's Sausage."

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environmen...ationAndThirst

    She's cute on a weird way.
    Last edited by DiBastet; 2011-02-24 at 03:55 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I am going to cast Prismatic Wall and back away. Right. Now.

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Dragons are really, really tricky. I mean, even WotC kinda screwed up on Dragons, and they're the professionals.
    First dictionary definition for professional:
    "following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain"
    Does NOT mean that they're actually good at it, and really Hyudra I'm disappointed in you for implying such.

    BAB, saves, look ok. Proficiencies, skills, also ok.
    Goodie.
    Cactus Body - It probably doesn't need that large a disguise bonus to appear as a nonsentient cactus. Not that that's ever going to come up in a typical campaign.
    And that's why it shouldn't be a problem. That's just there for flavor, anyways.
    Thorns, what if Señor is the one doing the bull rushing, striking, grappling?
    That's dealt with in subsequent posts... though I do think I'll deal with that. To an extent.
    I'm halfways surprised that Señor doesn't take more from slashing, but my experience with cactuses is limited to one I got as a gift when I was 15 and I somehow killed it with neglect. How do you kill a freakin' cactus?
    I've lived in southern california all my life, so I see a good amount of cacti. Cacti built like saguaro have these... bony, I might say, ridges that make actually cutting them quite difficult. However, using something like, say, a spear, would bypass said ridges, and in doing so you go for the soft, tender flesh.
    Ok, so I'm reading natural defenses, I really like it, but I find myself wondering: is this what the Saguaro Sentinel wants? I mean, you're tough with DR, natural armor beefed by con bonuses, con bonuses and fat HD... and you're discouraging enemies from attacking you in favor of other allies. What's bound to happen, really, is the penultimate trap of Tanks. You'll be tough enough that enemies will ignore you to the best of their ability, murder your teammates and then gang up on you. Or die and then leave the next random encounter to finish you off while you drag your teammates to the local shrine. Most tanks want a way to provoke enemies to attack them, not discourage it. Not saying it's a bad idea, but it runs contrarywise to your already established role.
    I know, but it's too damn flavorful not to use! So, yeah, I added in a deactivation at the end and most people will probably very rarely use it except maybe when trampling. But damn if it isn't flavorful.
    1000 needles - don't see myself using it that often, really. Maybe that's intended, but the self-damage is a bit rough. I'd only really use it if I had some form of natural healing (fast healing) or if I could damage/blind three or more enemies in a go.
    Yeah... kindof. A little. I donno, it is a swift action.
    Improved Grab - "Creatures successfully held by Señor Saguaro take Thorns damage, and any attacks during the grapple also deal thorns damage." - is this in addition to thorns damage stated under thorns?
    Hmmm... I meant creatures attempting to grapple the saguaro sentinel, not being grappled by it, under thorns. Not quite sure how to clarify that...
    Trample - hard to imagine (most cacti aren't very dense, are they?), but sure.
    Saguaro are certainly probably dense. Donno, never lifted one up. The base creature has it, though, and it gives it more options, so whatever.
    Pin Missile - Get to 20HD, use pin missile, murder half a small city. Not sure I like just how much that radius scales. At 10HD, even, you're still affecting 20 ~squares~ in every direction.
    20 squares. As in 100 feet. That's not half a small city, that's half a small tribe. That's less than 1/50th of a mile.
    And as far as the penalty goes... assuming at 10HD that you're dealing 4d6 thorns damage, you're dealing between 4 and 24 damage, 14 average. So a -2.8 penalty on average (I use the decimal to point to how close you are to a -3), with a -4 possible. I can live with that.
    You can live with that as in it's a good number or you can live with that as in it's not big enough?
    "After using this ability, Señor Saguaro loses is Thorns, Needle Arms, Pin Missile, Sweep (for the purposes of impalement) & Thorny Grasp ability for 1d4 rounds as the Saguaro Sentinel regrows all its thorns." - needs updating to list abilities you've written since, and you've got 'loses is thorns' instead of 'loses his thorns'.
    Right, 1,000 needles.
    "Alternately, Señor Saguaro may direct the Pin Missile as a standard action from one arm. This requires a ranged attack roll to strike the target, though it only loses thorn based abilities for one arm." -for one arm?
    ...Hm. I should reword that.
    You know, I had a whole shtick planned for the Ettin, based on making it a bumbling, awkward giant, with the two headed bit to mix things up. The falling on people was part of that. But the Ettin was already done. Ah well. Looks like it works.
    Yay.
    Arm Growth - I had to reread it. RAW, with only the example to bring us back to sanity, you'd get 2 new arms (two additional arms) at 10th, for a total of 5, three additional arms at 15th for a total of 8, etc. I'd reword.
    Hmmm... okay.
    Sweep - include a "At 9th level..." blurb. There's weird line breaks/paragraphing going on there, formatwise.
    Yeah, probably.
    "Creatures impaled in this manner are brought along with Señor Saguaro as it moves, and may attack it with a -4 penalty to attack," - the bit at the end is redundant.
    "Creatures thrown are considered improvised thrown weapons with a base damage of 1d10 for a medium sized creature and a range of 10'" - a range of 10' or a range increment of 10', just checking.
    "The thrown creature takes as much damage as it would deal " - Awkward. Clarify?
    Okay, okay, okay.
    [*]{table=head]Category|Score
    Originality|Pretty solid. Thorns sorta overlaps with the purple worm's own defensive spikes, but seems more defensively oriented. I've wanted to see a solid melee debuffer, just didn't expect it from a cactus.
    Playability| I anticipate no playability problems here. Looks good. Don't know, though, that it'd be a monster that I'd be excited to play, if someone offered me a spot at their table and handed me a saguaro sentinel character sheet. The class pretty much begs you to get Goad or some equivalent from somewhere though.
    Power| Looks solid. Maybe a bit of a weakness in having all those brawny defenses vs. tank syndrome, but no real issues. 1000 needles may be a little weak.
    Elegance|A few abilities need clarification.
    Flavor|I think you hit the mark, as far as selling a cactus person. Can't think of anything that's particularly out of place or that could be added.[/table][/list]
    She likes it! Hyudra likes it!
    Well, sortof.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  14. - Top - End - #644
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Gargoyle has been updated, though I may change a few more things soon, so feel free to take your time before next looking over it.

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    20 squares. As in 100 feet. That's not half a small city, that's half a small tribe. That's less than 1/50th of a mile.
    I was thinking like a marketplace or a gathered crowd at a parade, but forgot to actually imply such. It's still a freaking huge radius.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    You can live with that as in it's a good number or you can live with that as in it's not big enough?
    Yes.

    No, in all seriousness; it's a good number. More would be too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess
    She likes it! Hyudra likes it!
    Well, sortof.
    I do like it. I wouldn't play it, but I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScionoftheVoid View Post
    Gargoyle has been updated, though I may change a few more things soon, so feel free to take your time before next looking over it.
    Believe me, after that batch (12 or so monsters reviewed), taking my time regardless.

    Taking a mite of a break from critiques, gonna tidy up Spider and Medusa, then figure out whether I'm going to take a stab at Storm Giant or retire it for a while.

    I'm thinking I'll wait til Medusa and Spider are wrapped up before I throw Experiment #2 or Secret Project XRD at you guys. I won't throw the two of them at you one after another - I'll find something relatively mild to stick between them. Maybe Drow.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-24 at 05:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Not wasting any time, huh? No, in all seriousness, that may be good. You're not currently working on anything, IIRC, so I don't expect problems there, and your game plan looks solid.
    It's not so much "not wasting time" as "most of the complaints look like they're related to grammar and the abilities look alright but need some work."

    Plus, it's practice for if I ever decide to home brew a caster.

    I can already tell I'm gonna be combining a few domains together (Animal and plant, for example, into a 'Nature' domain).

    I will acknowledge that the QuasiGod is going to have issues in that it feels like a PrC. But that's a problem I'm not really sure how to address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    I was thinking like a marketplace or a gathered crowd at a parade, but forgot to actually imply such. It's still a freaking huge radius.
    Yeah, at 20 HD. It's meant to be as a sortof finisher move, so a large radius is a good thing. A sunburst spell has an 80 foot radius, so it's comparable to a large radius spell.

    I do like it. I wouldn't play it, but I like it.
    Honestly, I have the same opinion. I like what I did with it, but I'll probably never play it- I mean, it's a friggin' anthropomorphic cactus. Why? Just why?
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    For the record, Gorgon, if you're feeling brave, the Razor Boar, Gargoyle, Cloaker and Bleakborn are all in pretty good shape and could use a looking-over. IIRC, Bleakborn implemented most/all of the changes you last suggested, so I'd just suggest a final glance over. No need to look over my Medusa or Monstrous Spider as I haven't had the opportunity to make all the changes you suggested last.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-24 at 06:11 PM.

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    Hyudra, you are one busy Playgrounder.

    High Five!

    I think you guys and gals are doing an awesome job in here. It's too bad my homebrewing skills are limited, or I'd be more than happy to help out.
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    Regarding 1,000 Needles, I really think the caltrops option shouldn't be disregarded. The damage is pretty minor and caltrops are a fairly effective tool for a tank to cut off enemy mobility options - not amazing, but worthwhile for a few HP and a swift action. That said, it would be much more effective if the caltrops could be put in squares adjacent to Amingo's reach, since "within your reach" is where you want to be encouraging enemies to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Hyudra, you are one busy Playgrounder.

    High Five!

    I think you guys and gals are doing an awesome job in here. It's too bad my homebrewing skills are limited, or I'd be more than happy to help out.
    Thanks for noticing.

    Even if you're not much of a homebrewer, comments whenever something cool catches your eye is much welcomed. People enjoy having their efforts noticed, and coming from yours truly, it just comes across as "oh man, it must be bad, if Hyudra is trying to soften the blow".

    Edit:

    Medusa Changes, February 24th, 2010:
    • Stances are changed. There's no longer a restriction on initiating stances only after initiative rolls have been made. Abilities that would be broken as a consequence (such as the stalking ones, which grant cumulative movement or crit bonuses over time) have a note that they can only be used in combat (paraphrasing).
    • Stalking Serpent clarified as to what 'one step' means as far as advancing critical threat range and critical damage).
    • Snake in the Grass reworded to state "when the medusa is spotted, she gains the benefits of concealment for 1 round." (thanks @ Gorgon for the wording)
    • White Fangs Striking nerfed. It added dex to damage, but that was removed as it stacks with Snake Nest's dex to damage. Used Gorgon's suggested wording of "attacks that deal piercing damage" over "piercing weapons"
    • Removed ability to bluff enemies as an option in Force Gaze.


    Monstrous Spider, I looked over, nothing I feel a desperate need to change (I'd forgotten I'd revised it recently). So Medusa and Monstrous Spider are open to critique. Such critiques would be appreciated, Gorgon, but they're not high on the priority list. The other stuff I'm doing is going to take a little bit of time to hew out and polish, so the people who've been waiting to wrap up their monsters can go well before me in line, if you find your time short.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-24 at 07:30 PM.

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    Even if you're not much of a homebrewer, comments whenever something cool catches your eye is much welcomed. People enjoy having their efforts noticed, and coming from yours truly, it just comes across as "oh man, it must be bad, if Hyudra is trying to soften the blow".
    We hate you Hyudra. Mostly. The avatar is kinda cute, but almost all are in these forums. So yeah, we hate you.
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    Cloaker: Ehhhhhh.... looks okay by my book!

    Razor Boar:
    Surge of Force: I'd cut down the uses. Maybe just limit it to HD.
    Also, a level 1 warrior has more options than a level 1 razor boar. Might be best to make it wait 'till later for surge of force and give it a more active ability at 1st level.
    Switching it with the temporary HP option would be cool, as that one's pretty active in a way- less of a no brainer, I mean.
    Trample: Eh. 1/2 HD looks better for the DC. Also, generally abilities dependent on size like trample are better after large size is gained. Though I suppose that ability is especially apt on the razor boar. Take it as you will.
    Scent: might want to make special note of the extra ability on scent. Generally when you're just restating something found in the SR that a vet might already know they'll just ignore it and thus miss the extra stuff you put on the bottom.
    Resilience: Goddamn.
    "if the boar is willing. Against natural weapons"
    Line break in the middle there would be good for formatting purposes.
    Also, if I were, say, a lizardfolk snagged onto the razor boar with my offhand claw, I'd totally just stay there, climb on its back Shadow of the Colossus style, then draw a sword and start stabbifying it. Just sayin'. Note how I handled stuck creatures with my Saguaro Sentinel.
    Looking at barrel through, I'd increase base tusk damage. With what you've currently got, you're looking at 2d6 base damage at large size. Either make it 1.5x str damage (totally applicable) or increase the damage to at least 1d8, if not 1d10. Hell, 1d12 or 2d6 would work if you move the hoof attacks to a later level.
    Unstoppable: What kind of action is this? What conditions wouldn't allow you to activate this effect? Simple nausea/dazing? Stunning? Paralysis? Fear? Nothing short of mental shutdown? etc.
    Mighty force: you could totally swing that at an earlier level if you want trample to be a big schtick.
    Otherwise... eh, looks okay.

    Gargoyle: I am still annoyed about how I reviewed an older version of this. As such, I'm not reviewing it right now and shall instead review it in a few hours! MWAHAHAHAHAH!Actually I just don't have time to do so at the moment.

    Bleakborn: Looks-a-good!
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    Cloaker and Bleakborn added to the main list.

    Man, that feels good. Bleakborn was our oldest monster as of the council system taking over, so knocking that one off the list is nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Cloaker and Bleakborn added to the main list.

    Man, that feels good. Bleakborn was our oldest monster as of the council system taking over, so knocking that one off the list is nice.
    You said it. On the subject of reviewing old classes, are my half-fiend and half-celestial still up to snuff? I was going to use the smae design to make a half farspawn template
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    Or something.

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    Was talking with Gorgon about some of the templates. Not sure if the discussion was prompted by your question there. In any event, the half fiend and half celestial did come up as things we might be interested in going back to.

    Edit: Don't get me wrong. Not saying it's broken or anything. I didn't even look at them as they came up in the conversation, but we did look at the half dragon, which is embarassingly bad, and the idea that we might go to other halfs was a prospect.

    I've finished the Drow, but am postponing actually posting her. Only two one levels long, hard to fit all the flavor of a dozen novels and nearly a half dozen sourcebooks (across editions) into just one level. I think I like what I came up with, but it's damned hard to make a one-level critter that comes across as tempting without being a foregone conclusion as far as dipping goes, so I look forward to the discussion/feedback that follows. I'll wait until Monstrous Spider and Medusa pass muster before releasing the class. I might release Experimental Critter #2 and Drow in quick succession, depending on how things go.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-25 at 12:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Was talking with Gorgon about some of the templates. Not sure if the discussion was prompted by your question there. In any event, the half fiend and half celestial did come up as things we might be interested in going back to.
    Nope, just one of those crazy random happenstances.
    Also, cultist: if you want to do half fiend/celestial, you definitely have my blessing. Half farspawn... I donno... I like that one.
    I've finished the Drow, but am postponing actually posting her. Only two one levels long, hard to fit all the flavor of a dozen novels and nearly a half dozen sourcebooks (across editions) into just one level. I think I like what I came up with, but it's damned hard to make a one-level critter that comes across as tempting without being a foregone conclusion as far as dipping goes, so I look forward to the discussion/feedback that follows. I'll wait until Monstrous Spider and Medusa pass muster before releasing the class. I might do Experimental Critter #2 and Drow in quick succession, depending on how things go.
    Eh, go ahead and post it. I'm getting to the medusa & arachnid soon enough.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2011-02-25 at 12:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Eh, go ahead and post it. I'm getting to the medusa & arachnid soon enough.
    Nah. Going to reserve it, so I can stick it between the Experimental Critter #2 and the XRD, since the two are a little much, taken together, and having something a little milder between them will spare everyone some sanity.

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    Updated the ragewalker. Besides minor typos or bad formating (I think i forgot something but can't remember...), it should be in the final version now.
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    Goblins

    Monster Class
    Monster Manual, SRD

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    HD: D6
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will |Special
    1st|+0|+0|+2|+0| Goblin Body, Mob, Attribute Adjustment
    [/table]
    Skill Points 6+Int per level
    Class Skills: Appraise, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Spot.

    Proficiencies: The Goblins are proficient with all simple weapons except crossbows. They are proficient in light armor and shields.

    Goblin Body: The Goblins lose all other racial bonuses and gain goblinoid traits, granting it Darkvision out to 60'. Goblins are initially small sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30'. They have a racial bonus on Move Silently equal to half their HD.

    Goblins speak Goblin and heavily accented Common, with additional languages for high intelligence scores as normal.

    Attribute Adjustment: Goblins have +2 Dexterity and their choice of either -2 Strength or -1 Strength and -2 Charisma.

    Mob: A player who takes a level in the Goblins monster class does not control one goblin, but three. Much as a swarm, the Goblins are considered a single entity in most cases - they make a single saving throw against spells, traps and other effects, and the whole group suffers the consequences should they fail the save. They have a single pool of hitpoints (though they suffer casualties, after a fashion, as their hitpoints descend to a certain point, see below) and they both wear and benefit from equipment as a collective whole. As they gain class levels or use class features (such as spells, attacks or maneuvers) it is assumed that the trio is cooperating in the task or that two members of the trio are cheering on the third. As such, they can be considered a single individual except where noted below:
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    Hitpoints, Unconsciousness and Death:The goblins have individual hitpoints, equal to their hit point total divided by three (any remainder is distributed evenly, favoring the final goblin where possible). While any hitpoint damage dealt to the group is deducted from their collective pool, should the group take a total amount of damage sufficient to take one goblin out of combat, that goblin collapses, unconscious and the group shrinks by one member (See Left Behind, below, for the mechanical effect of this). A fallen goblin does not die or start dying until all three goblins have fallen, and they cannot be coup de graced or otherwise finished off until the entire group is helpless. Surviving goblins can revive an unconscious goblin and pull them to their feet as a full round action that raises that goblin to 1 hp.
    ie. The player Jonas controls 1st level Goblins, dubbed Shankbelly, No-Ears and Biter. At first level, with 8 hitpoints, he assigns 2 hitpoints to Shankbelly and 3 to both No-ears and Biter. He records their maximum hitpoints as 2/3/3 (8) on the character sheet. He could also record it as 8/6/3 (8) to better recognize when the goblin's collective hitpoints have fallen enough for one to become unconscious.

    In combat against a vicious housecat, the group takes 4 hitpoints of damage. Jonas records the damage and notes that Shankbelly falls in battle, with No-Ears having taken 2 points of damage. They attack the cat to avenge their comrade's death, but miss the damned beast. As the cat attacks once more, they take 2 points of damage in the following round. No-Ears collapses, and only Biter remains with 2 hitpoints left. He scores a lucky hit, and twists the blade to finish off the terrible feline, then sets to reviving his comrades.
    Spacing: The Goblins take up three adjacent spaces (such as a 5'x15' area). They can change their formation as part of a movement by subtracting 10' from their movement allowance. Each goblin must stay within 5' of another fellow goblin at all times (diagonals do not count), unless they are using the 'Left Behind' option described below. Goblins can make attacks of opportunity using any and all of the spaces they occupy, but attacks of opportunity do count against their maximum, regardless of which goblin made it.

    For the purposes of goblins growing to a larger size category, the effective spacing is essentially three instances of whatever size category they are. As such, goblins of large size with a space of 10x10' would take up 30'x10' in space, with each goblin taking up a 10'x10' space.

    Basic Needs: Goblins can clothe or equip themselves with the clothing necessary for a single individual... they're not modest. They share any carried equipment between them and need 8 hours of rest as normal. Goblins do eat as much as three individuals, however.

    Charges: The goblins charge in whatever formation they were in as they announced the charge, stopping when one or more goblins is in reach. If they change formation during the charge, they lose 20' of charge distance.

    Attacks: The Goblins can make a standard action attack as normal, using any one of the goblin's weapons, but when full attacking, they can attack as a disorganized group. In doing so, each may make an attack with their equipped weapon (with standard penalties for firing ranged weapons into melee, etc) at a -4 penalty. When the goblins have +6 BAB, this penalty decreases to -2. The penalty is removed when the goblins have +12 BAB. Goblins do not gain iterative attacks in the usual fashion, but for every +6 BAB after +12 BAB, one of the goblins may make an additional attack at a -5 penalty.

    Should goblins get an additional attack from another source (such as a natural attack), they simply add one appropriate attack to their mob attack (their full attack equivalent).

    Weapons and Shields: The Goblins may each wield a single one-handed weapon or a ranged weapon.

    Each shield worn by the group (to a maximum of three) offers only half benefit (to a maximum of 1.5 times the benefit), with the group suffering the full penalty for each shield worn (so wearing three light steel shields would impose a -3 armor check penalty and a -15% arcane spell failure chance). A goblin must wield a light weapon alongside a shield.

    Equipment/Magic Items: Equipment/Magic items are divided among the goblins. They still have the same total number of equipment slots, and the ambient benefits of any magic items stretch to encompass the group. However, there is one exception to this in that each member of the group may wield either a magic weapon or a magic shield.

    Companions, Familiars, Mounts: The goblins share a single companion or familiar if they take levels in a class that would grant such to them. In the event of mounts, the Goblins gain a medium size mount that they can all ride at once.

    Spells and Special Abilities: Goblins that gain special abilities, trigger activation magic items, breath weapons or special attacks from spells simply use the ability as though one individual had them, originating from any goblin-occupied square. Consider them to be acting in concert or that one goblin is performing the action (such as breathing fire) while the others cheer them on or dance in glee at the devastation wrought.

    Gang Up: The Goblins that get involved in a grapple with a foe may reroll grapple checks a number of times equal to the number of members in the group (up to three times), taking the higher result. Each time they win a grapple check, as they climb on, bite, poke and pull on their hapless victim, both they and their opponent stumble 5' in the direction of their choice. In the event of a grapple, all three goblins move into the enemy's space (and are considered to occupy a 5' space for the interim).

    Left Behind: The Goblins may leave a member of the group behind as part of a move action. The main group moves and operates as normal, but reduces its base total of hitpoints, number of available attacks and overall space appropriately (these stats/spacing, etc. are taken on by the goblin left behind). Goblins left behind (be it intentionally or as a consequence of being knocked unconscious and then revived while the rest of the group is elsewhere) may (taking their turn after the main group has) make attacks of opportunity, keep watch, perform any free actions the group could or move the shortest, easiest available route back to the main group. Alternately, a goblin may be left behind to revive a fallen goblin in the manner described under Hitpoints, above.

    Should the group be entirely split up (with two of the three members left behind), one goblin may shout at another goblin in earshot as a swift action, effectively changing which goblin is performing the actions and which two are left behind. This does not change the group's allowance of movement, standard and swift actions. For example, one goblin might use a move action, use a swift action to call out to a buddy, and then that buddy could use a standard action.

    Goblins left behind are not subjected to spells (positive or not) that affect the main group, and vice versa. They make their own saving throws and retain any beneficial or deleterious effects. Should they rejoin the main group, all effects are shared across members.


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    A foreword, here: The Goblins, which I've referred to in both discussions and in the thread as Experimental Critter #2, are my second shot at doing something out-of-the-box as far as design goes. The Lemure was the first, with a 'suck now, be awesome later' setup that was deemed problematic and scrapped. In any event, the focus on these 'experimental critters' is to try and find a way to make the most lamesauce, low-power monsters appealing as classes without breaking their integral flavor. The thought process here is essentially "CR 1/3? That means 3 goblins = CR1!" Mechanically, it may not work perfectly, I admit, but just try to tell me that roleplaying three goblins at once wouldn't be barrels of fun.

    The benefit of this approach, semi-inspired by both swarms & some tabletop wargames, is that it really does mix up some of the tactical options one gets. You're both small size and you're covering a fairly large space on the table. You're covering a lot of ground as far as being able to make attacks of opportunity, and you've got the ability (though they're so shoddy at first it's barely worth it) to make three attacks at an early level. I'm pretty sure you could do something pretty effective combat-wise with the 'fighting underfoot' feats and the like, as well.

    The drawback is that there's so many areas that the mechanical side of this could fall apart or where issues/confusion could arise that it's not feasible for me to sit down and try to cover all the bases. It's my hope that with the 'treat as a single individual when in doubt' policy, most of these can be solved in an expedient manner. I hope that others viewing the class could chime in as well with both issues and solutions.

    Should you want to play a lone goblin, you can just take the race. If you want a fistful of flavor and something really different, you take a level in the Goblins monster class.


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    Changes, February 25:
    • Added basic needs, charges, animals/familiars/mounts sections under 'mob'. Clarified rules elsewhere, including size effects to answer questions raised in discussion in the thread (Thanks, Flabort!).
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-02-25 at 04:06 PM.

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