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  1. - Top - End - #991
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by mootoall View Post
    Well alright, but that means I have to alter the mechanics for their abilities, because I tried to balance uses by giving some of them pp costs, which won't be limiting at all if they've got Psion PP all the way through. So that I've gotta change.
    But it already stacked with... Wilder PP anyways, didn't it?

    I think perhaps Dragon Magazine material should go in the homebrew thread, as it's not technically official material.
    Sortof... kindof... isn't Dragon endorsed by WotC?
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  2. - Top - End - #992
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    yes it is endosered which is why i requseted stuff from it

  3. - Top - End - #993
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    But it already stacked with... Wilder PP anyways, didn't it?
    It stacked with all manifesting classes, with extra incentive to go into Lurk and Psi Rogue, which have much lower PP progression. If they were to go into Psion or Wilder, they'd have much more PP, yeah, but then a lot more powerful things to spend their PP on a lot more suddenly, while they've been relying on a small pool for 5 levels to fuel Unbodied abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
    Characters:
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    Current characters: None, looking for a game.


    Homebrew!


    Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!

  4. - Top - End - #994
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxsis View Post
    yes it is endosered which is why i requseted stuff from it
    Its still extremely unlikely to get done since not many people have dragon magazines, even if they do, not many people like doing dragons, heck Hyudra hates reviewing them, and lastly, we're redoing the dragons from Scratch (and by we, I mean Frog Dragon)
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  5. - Top - End - #995
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Its still extremely unlikely to get done since not many people have dragon magazines, even if they do, not many people like doing dragons, heck Hyudra hates reviewing them, and lastly, we're redoing the dragons from Scratch (and by we, I mean Frog Dragon)
    Hey! No I'm not!

    ATM, I'm only redesigning the Black Dragon before going back to yugoloths, and Hyudra is also doing the Xorvintaal Red Dragon. I don't know if the others will be redesigned anytime soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  6. - Top - End - #996
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Hey! No I'm not!

    ATM, I'm only redesigning the Black Dragon before going back to yugoloths, and Hyudra is also doing the Xorvintaal Red Dragon. I don't know if the others will be redesigned anytime soon.
    Oh okay.

    Well, if its good enough, I might make the silver dragon revision more like it.
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  7. - Top - End - #997
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    While I wait for the Monstrous Spider and Drow to pass muster, I'm touching up some of my old monsters, to keep in kind with more recent standards:

    So...

    Hill Giant Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Updated Changelog to look tidier.
    • Picture replaced, as the old one wasn't loading consistently.
    • Reformatted the entire entry to match with current standards. (table tidier, headings in bold rather than italics, and removed the constant references to 'you', which were mixed up with references to 'his' and 'they'. Now pretty consistently uses 'his' throughout, minus the Hill Giant Body, which speaks about Hill Giants in general terms (they, their, etc.).)
    • Smash tweaked to apply daze rather than stun, which makes it a little less devastating but more consistent, which is good. It no longer applies daze if you land just one melee hit on a smaller target, instead requiring you to land two hits on one foe with a slam or a 2H weapon, or to hit with a boulder (this also gives a better reason to use both slams and boulders, and prevents awkwardness with dazing/stunning by way of AoO) It now advances at 11HD to ease things up for the Giant again (by that point, you're fighting more large/huge/gargantuan foes).
    • Tidied up growth text.
    • Clarified about range increments in Chuck Rock (they were conspicuously absent, with just the maximum range listed). Similar clarifications about the throwing of non-boulders using the ability, which previously said that the range was halved, but didn't get into range increments or any of that.
    • Removed Thrash, which was an underwhelming capstone, but the mechanics of it are preserved in the sixth ability, "I is Better".
    • Added the abilities Rampage and "I is Bigger" to seventh level. The former lets the Hill Giant be more creative with a cleave-like trigger, while the latter is a size category shift that rewards the Hill Giant even more for fighting on hills/higher ground.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 04:44 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #998
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Nitpicking Is What I Do:
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    Au contraire: Dragon Magazine is, indeed, official material. WotC says so, the FAQ says so, Paizo says so, and it's considered official in Living Forgotten Realms. Also, the Dragon Compendium was published by WotC, not Paizo. (If desired, I can edit this post with links and references in a couple days- I'm on school internet with no Tor, which sucks.)

    It may be of spotty quality- I'm skeptical about using or allowing most of it myself- but I avoid it for the same reason I avoid the Paladin and Archivist (namely, they suck balance-wise), not because it's not "official".

    The only entity that can use "official" with regards to D&D is Wizards of the Coast, and they have done so repeatedly with regards to Dragon Magazine material.

    But, heck, they also say the FAQ is official, so...


    And moving on to more productive pursuits, like actually adressing the question at hand (Dragon Mag material in this thread):
    Quote Originally Posted by Community Monster Classes Project OP
    The nebulous goal of this thread is to create a playable monster class for every monster in official material.
    According to this guideline, whether Dragon Magazine material belongs here depends on whether you consider it "official". (See spoiler above for my take.)
    Quote Originally Posted by The OP A Couple Sentences Later
    For people wanting to work on monsters that aren't from official WotC material, there is a spin-off project, our homebrew edition.
    And this heavily implies that the only monsters that fall within the scope of this project are those that are both A) official, and B) published by WotC. Dragon Magazine was not published by WoTC (though Dragon Compendium was).

    On the whole, I think I'd be quite happy leaving Dragon material out of this project for now, at least until we finish the WotC monsters! On the other hand, Dragon monsters aren't exactly ""PEACH'd homebrew monsters" either. For what it's worth, I recommend the following:
    --Generally discourage requests or work on Dragon Magazine monsters.
    --Let people who want to make Dragon Mag monsters themselves do so (barring the new-'brewer-epic-monster scenario; ugh, Time Dragon ).
    --Allow any such monsters to be posted in this thread, rather than the Homebrew Monsters spin-off. Why? Well, for those of us with more...conservative DMs, getting permission to use the occasional gem from Dragon Magazine or the Homebrew Forum can be difficult. Someone, somewhere, may be able to convince their DM to approve a monster class for an "official" monster, but not one for a "homebrew" monster. Given the highly debated status of Dragon material in the first place, and the fact that we're making these classes so people can play them and have fun (let's not lose sight of that!), I think choosing the option that makes them more likely to be played (however slightly) is the best option here.

    And that's the end of my rant.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 05:17 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  9. - Top - End - #999
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg
    ...
    I could accept those recommendations without complaint. Well said, well argued.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 04:54 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #1000
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Looking at the monstrous spider, I notice it says the poison bypasses a creature's immunity to it at a certain point, but what about if they're immune to ability damage?
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  11. - Top - End - #1001
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Hill Giant:
    • Table: "Hill Giant body" --> "Hill Giant Body" (capitalize the B)
    • Proficiencies: "The Hill Giant gains proficiency with simple weapons, light and medium armor." Should be either "...simple weapons, light armor, and medium armor." or "...simple weapons and light and medium armor."
    • Hill Giant Body: Second sentence: "Hill Giants are initially medium sized creatures with a base movement speed of 30', possessing two natural slam attacks that deal 1d4 + Str mod damage each, and natural armor equal to their con modifier." Between the slam attacks and the natural armor we have "Str mod" (ability abbreviated and capitalized, "modifier" abbreviated) and "con modifier" (ability abbreviated and uncapitalized, "modifier" not abbreviated. Consistency would look a bit better.
    • Pounding Footsteps: Not required, but specifying whether this includes magically manipulated terrain couldn't hurt.
    • Chuck Rock: Doesn't specify the damage of the boulder. Should probably also specify that they are treated as simple thrown weapons, as otherwise he may or may not be proficient.
    • Pulverise: Suggest scaling the rate of increase slightly with levels- perhaps +2d6 per successive impact at 12HD and +3d6 at 18HD? Otherwise, the high end of that (HD)d6 cap is going to go pretty much unused.
    • Crash Through: "(double your slam damage + 3x your Str bonus)" your --> his.
    • I is Better: Critical threat range improves by "one step". This term is ambiguous with regard to threat ranges. It should either A) double, which stacks with a keen weapon and similar effects (*insert D&D math reminder here*), B) double, which does not stack with a keen weapon and similar effects, or C) increase by one, which is applied after, and stacks with, keen weapon and similar effects.
    • I is Better: "...critical hit damage by one step..." should be "critical hit damage multiplier by one"
    • I is Bigger: Should clarify that the opponent's effective size reduction only applies to opposed rolls and checks between him (the opponent) and the hill giant. (Otherwise having a Hill Giant on a hill nearby suddenly makes it easier for everyone else to trip you.) Given a strict reading of the current wording, this is already the case; it could, however, be clearer.

    That's all I have on that.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 05:57 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  12. - Top - End - #1002
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Hill Giant:
    Further Hill Giant Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Fixed capitalization error in table.
    • Fixed ambiguous wording in proficiencies.
    • Made use of Str mod / Con mod more consistent in capitalization and abbreviation of 'mod' vs. 'modifier'
    • Pounding Footsteps: clarified that it functions in magically altered terrain.
    • Chuck Rock: Clarified boulder damage as 2d6 for small rocks, increasing with size as normal.
    • Pulverize: Made it scale, +1d6 damage per successive hit at 7HD and every 3HD thereafter. Gave example to make it as clear as possible.
    • I is Better: Clarified the advancement to crits and stacking.
    • I is Bigger: Added text to stress that it only pertains to interactions between the Hill Giant and foes.
    • Thanks to Psyborg for the feedback that led to this particular changelist.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 05:37 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #1003
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Monstrous Spider:
    • Monstrous Spider Body: "...natural armor equal to their con modifiers." Capitalize Con.
    • Web: Current wording for scaling of maximum range is awkward. Suggest rephrasing maximum range to "five range increments", and then you only have to specify scaling of range increment.
    • Web: "Though the strand initially has the consistency and thickness of rope, it has hardness equal to the Spider's HD, to a maximum of double the Spider's Con mod, and has 2hp per HD of the Spider." Run-on sentence. Suggest: "The strand has the consistency and thickness of rope, but its strength increases mightily as the Spider gains experience. The strand has hardness equal to the Spider's HD (to a maximum of the Spider's Con mod), and 2HP per HD of the Spider."
    • Web (indented example): "ie. " is firstly incorrect (it signifies the Latin "id est", meaning "that is" or "in other words"; "e.g." ["exempli gratia"] is the correct abbreviation to signify "for example"), and secondly begins the paragraph with an uncapitalized abbreviation, which looks weird. Suggest replacing it with either "Example: " or "For example, "
    • Ensnaring Strand: Says "half again the range of a typical Web attack", but then specifies ranges that don't appear to scale like Web ranges do.
    • Attach: Wording of second sentence is awkward. Suggest changing first two sentences to, "The Spider attaches the web strand to an object. Using this ability is a swift action that may be performed in the middle of a move action, in addition to any time she could normally use a swift action."
    • Brood Mother, first paragraph: "...and can thus track the location of the egg host or any hatched spiders within that distance, no matter where they are." Add the bolded text; current wording implies she can locate them anywhere at all. (Unless the intent was to allow her to follow them, a la Tracking, in which case...it still needs clarification but my wording above makes things worse.)
    • Brood Mother, final paragraph: "...only living foes that would grant experience to the Spider qualify to feed her young (creatures with too low a CR will not allow young to reach maturation." Needs a closing parenthesis.
    • Jerk Line: "This is a standard action involving a dexterity check opposed by the opponent's choice of Strength or Dexterity check. The standard size modifiers apply. This provokes no attack of opportunity and opponents do not get a trip attack against the Spider should she fail." A) Capitalize the first instance of "Dexterity check". B)Add a comma after "This provokes no attack of opportunity".
    • Silent Skirr: A) Capitalize Hide and Move Silently. Uncapitalize and italicize silenced, as the spell.
    • Weaver (indented example): See Web example, above.
    • Eerie Chitter: "Opponents who cannot see the Spider suffer a -4 circumstance penalty." Add "...penalty to their save." for clarity.
    • Arachnid's Bite: Current wording has all poisons reduced and switched to strength vs. "Con -" creatures, not just Con-damaging poisons. Alter as follows: "The Spider gains the ability to deal half poison damage to foes that are already immune (if the Spider's poison would deal Con damage to a foe who lacks a Constitution score, she deals 2 less ability damage and damages Str instead)."
    • Arachnid's Bite, option 4: "and its critical threat range increases by one step." See comments under Hill Giant. "One step" is ambiguous. Double stacking, double non-stacking, or increase by one.

    And that's the Monstrous Spider nitpicked Hope it was helpful.

    Edit: More than welcome for Hill Giant nitpicking; glad it was of use.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 05:59 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  14. - Top - End - #1004
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Coure Eladrin

    Book of Exalted Deeds

    Class:
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    HD: D6

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|
    Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Coure Body, Divine Tricks, +1 Dexterity

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Eladrin Resistances, Trapfinding, Radiant Form, Magic Circle Against Evil, +1 Dexterity[/table]


    Skills Points: (8+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Class Skills: The Coure Eladrinís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Wis) Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Proficiencies: The Coure Eladrin is proficient with simple weapons and light martial weapons, plus the shortbow and longbow. It is proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Coure Body: The Coure Eladrin loses all other racial bonuses and gains outsider traits and the good, chaotic, and eladrin subtypes, granting it darkvision out to 60 feet. Coure Eladrin are initially Tiny sized creatures with a base movement speed of 20' and a flight speed of 30' with average maneuverability; a flying Coure Eladrin must end its movement for each round on a solid surface. If the Coure Eladrin does not deliberately land, she flitters to the ground without taking falling damage as if under the effects of feather fall; the same occurs when falling for any other reason. A Coure Eladrin has Common and Celestial as starting languages, with additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal.
    At 3 HD, the Coure Eladrin's flight speed improves to 40' with good maneuverability. At 5 HD it improves again to 60' with perfect maneuverability, and the Coure Eladrin need not end its movement on a solid surface.
    Coure eladrin do not gain the normal benefits of the eladrin subtype, instead gaining the Eladrin Resistances ability at level 2.


    Attribute Bonus: The Coure Eladrin gains +1 to Dexterity at each class level, for a total bonus of +2 Dexterity at second level.

    Divine Tricks (Sp): As the embodiment of carefree cheer and joyous curiosity, Coure Eladrin receive a number of abilities that let them spread light and joy or sate their curiosity. Starting at first level, the Coure Eladrin gains a number of spell-like abilities, each usable once per day per hit die: dancing lights, detect evil, detect magic, faerie fire, magic missile, comprehend languages, and sleep. Each of these abilities has a caster level equal to the Coure Eladrin's hit dice and a save DC (where applicable) of 10 + 1/2 the eladrin's hit dice + the eladrin's Charisma bonus.
    At 3 HD, the Coure Eladrin's Sleep ability improves. Instead of affecting up to 4 HD of creatures, the eladrin may choose to target a single creature with HD up to her own HD plus her Charisma modifier.
    At 5 HD, the Coure Eladrin's Comprehend Languages ability may be used to cast Tongues instead.
    At 9 HD, the Tongues ability becomes a permanent effect and is treated as a supernatural ability.

    Eladrin Resistances (Ex): Eladrin are resistant to certain sorts of harm. A second-level firre eladrin gains resistance to acid, cold, and electricity equal to her HD, to a maximum of 10. Also at second level, she becomes immune to petrification, and at 10 HD she becomes immune to electricity.

    Trapfinding: The Coure Eladrin's curiosity and love of exploration lets it uncover well-hidden secrets. At second level she gains trapfinding as a rogue.

    Radiant Form (Su): Being a creature of light and joy is more than metaphorical. Starting at second level, the coure eladrin learns to transform into a form composed of that and little else. As a standard action, the Coure Eladrin may assume the form of a semi-substantial ball of light. She may remain in this form for up to one minute per day per hit die; this time may be divided up as she sees fit, but increments shorter than one minute count as a full minute transformed. Reverting to her normal form is a free action. In this form, the Coure Eladrin makes no noise and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. She can choose how much light to shed, from the equivalent of a torch down to a barely-shimmering outline that casts no light radius, changing how much light she sheds as a free action once per round. In this form, it is only possible to hide if the coure's light radius is reduced to nothing; otherwise her bright glow will give her away. She may perform any activities in this form which she could normally perform despite her transformed state, subject to the limitations mentioned below. Other properties of the form depend on the coure's HD.
    At 2 HD, she is misty but still tangible. All attacks other than force effects, effects with the ghost touch property, or other attacks that normally affect incorporeal creatures suffer a 10% miss chance per HD to a maximum of 50% at 5 HD. Any attacks made by the coure which are not themselves of these types suffer a 20% miss chance, which does not increase. She may move through openings smaller than herself - any opening large enough to shine a light through, although not sealed openings or solid surfaces.
    At 5 HD, she becomes semi-intangible. She may now pass through solid objects no thicker than 5 feet.
    At 12 HD, her alternate form becomes fully incorporeal. She cannot be harmed by nonmagical attacks, nor can she exert physical force on corporeal objects. Magical attacks other than force effects or ghost touch weapons have a 50% chance to fail to affect her. She is immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, her attacks ignore material armor, and she can pass freely through solid matter. This supersedes and replaces the previous miss chances and semi-intangibility.
    At 16 HD, she may assume her alternate form at will with no daily time limit.

    Magic Circle Against Evil (Su): The very presence of such a being as an eladrin deters evil. As a swift action, the Coure Eladrin may project a magic circle against evil with a caster level equal to her HD. She may maintain the magic circle for up to one round per HD per day. Dismissing the circle is a free action. At 10 HD, she may project the magic circle for as long as she wishes.



    Comments
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    So I decided to actually get involved in all the nonsense instead of just arguing from the sidelines. Oh boy.

    My first monster class, so I decided to lowball with a CR 2 creature. The coure eladrin embodies carefree wandering, good-natured pranks, and a joyous lifestyle, and serves as a messenger and scout for higher powers, so it seemed natural (together with its existing abilities) to make it a rogueish sneaking class. That said, I didn't change much from the base monster - I scaled down its stronger abilities so they could be built up to, made its Sleep scale better, and gave it trapfinding and a somewhat rogueish skill list so it could serve that role more effectively.

    It's a lot in two levels, though - in addition to its spell-like abilities, it's Tiny and flies. The big problem I have in that regard is that I couldn't really wrap my brain around the image of this creature being unable to fly, so I restricted it to flitting from place to place - it's still good mobility, but the coure can't hover above an enemy and rain down tiny arrows. Likewise, it seems really baffling to have something shrink down to Tiny, and Coure are supposed to be 2 feet tall tops, so... it's tiny. I'm waffling on the resistances, since they're not really central to the coure eladrin. Tongues is also a general eladrin trait, but seems to fit well with the coure's theme of curiosity and wandering.


    Changelog
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    3/2/11: Initial post.
    3/2/11 (2): Added ability types, clarified actions required in some cases, added lack of armor proficiency, added falling-damage clarification.
    3/3/11: HD changed from d4 to d6, light armor proficiency added. Both are in response to concern from an off-MB reader about excessive squishiness even for a tiny angelfairy thing.
    3/5/11: Joyous Body changed to Coure Body. Clarified falling further. Miss chance from insubstantiality changed from 20% to 10% per hit die. Clarified hiding in alternate form.
    3/16/11: Made several clarifications to Alternate Form.
    3/23/11: Alternate Form renamed Radiant Form as it no longer matches the canonical Alternate Form ability.
    3/24/11: Level 3 Sleep upgrade modified from "twice coure's HD" to "coure's HD plus Charisma modifier"
    4/2/11: Eladrin Resistances renamed "Eladrin". It now grants subtypes as well. The "Eladrin" ability was not copied from previous eladrin because the previously-existing ability does not actually reflect eladrin's normal resistances.
    4/7/11: Eladrin Resistances ability returned to previous name and moved to second level; subtypes subsumed into Coure Body with note on eladrin benefits. Hopefully this will be considered an acceptable standard for eladrin.
    Last edited by Benly; 2011-04-07 at 04:13 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #1005
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Coure Eladrin (Benly): Ugh, Tiny size and flight in two levels. I'm so glad balance critiques are not my department! Anyhow, here we go:
    • Proficiencies: Should specify armor proficiency or lack thereof. Specifying shield proficiency or lack thereof couldn't hurt.
    • Joyous Body: Should be renamed to Coure Eladrin Body. Standardization is important.
    • Adding Common as an automatic language wouldn't hurt anything, and would make the monster a more convenient PC for those who rolled badly or are on low point buy.
    • The flight ability should probably include a statement about avoiding falling damage.
    • Divine Tricks: Recommend adding the following to the last line (the 9HD advancement that makes Tongues a permanent effect): "It cannot be dispelled, but does not function in an antimagic field."
    • Alternate Form: Needs to specify what action is necessary to end the ability, and whether beginning/ending it provokes AoOs.
    • Magic Circle Against Evil: Is it a swift action every round while in effect, or a swift action to activate and then it stays on until it runs out or you shut it off? If the latter, what action is it to shut it off?


    Flavor-wise it seems good, if basic. But you can only do so much with two levels, especially with all the must-have stuff crammed in there.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 07:21 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  16. - Top - End - #1006
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Monstrous Spider Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Numerous capitalization and structure changes.
    • Range increment/range clarified for web.
    • And erroneous range detailed under Silk Strand fixed.
    • Clarified range of Brood Mother's ability to sense where her implanted victims are.
    • Clarified that Eerie chitter adds a penalty to saving throw.
    • Clarified the whole "What happens when you have a con based poison that penetrates immunities and enemy has no con score" bit.
    • Clarified crit range under Arachnid's bite.
    • Thanks again to Psyborg for contributing the feedback necessary to make these changes.

  17. - Top - End - #1007
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Coure Eladrin: Ugh, Tiny size and flight in two levels. I'm so glad balance critiques are not my department!
    This is a concern I have, yes. Hopefully, the requirement to land each round makes it somewhat more palatable, and I can't really make the coure eladrin non-Tiny without significantly changing what it is.

    Proficiencies: Should specify armor proficiency or lack thereof. Specifying shield proficiency or lack thereof couldn't hurt.
    Oversight. Fixed.

    Joyous Body: Should be renamed to Coure Eladrin Body. Standardization is important.
    Standardization is important, but so are abilities that don't sound incredibly stupid. For some monsters, (Name) Body sounds fine. Coure Eladrin is tragically not one of them.

    Adding Common as an automatic language wouldn't hurt anything, and would make the monster a more convenient PC for those who rolled badly or are on low point buy.
    Oversight. Fixed.

    The flight ability should probably include a statement about avoiding falling damage.
    Added.

    • Divine Tricks: Recommend adding the following to the last line (the 9HD advancement that makes Tongues a permanent effect): "It cannot be dispelled, but does not function in an antimagic field."
    • Alternate Form: Needs to specify what action is necessary to end the ability, and whether beginning/ending it provokes AoOs.
    • Magic Circle Against Evil: Is it a swift action every round while in effect, or a swift action to activate and then it stays on until it runs out or you shut it off? If the latter, what action is it to shut it off?
    Fixed. I gave most abilities ability types, which answers some of these questions (Su abilities can't be dispelled and don't provoke AoOs by default), and clarified the others.

    Flavor-wise it seems good, if basic. But you can only do so much with two levels, especially with all the must-have stuff crammed in there.
    Pretty much.
    Last edited by Benly; 2011-03-02 at 07:12 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #1008
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Dang, you're fixing stuff faster than I can find it! Here's the next one:

    Drow:
    • Class Skills: "Knowledge (any one)" Was this really meant to only allow one Knowledge skill as a class skill? If so, it seems odd but I guess it's fine. If not, try "Knowledge (all, taken separately)"
    • Proficiencies: "The Drow is...Drow are..." Singular and plural in the same paragraph.
    • Drow Body: Just an idea: change automatic languages to "Elven and either Undercommon or Drow Silent"?
    • Attribute Bonus: Word order: "her choice of +1 to Dex, Wis, or Cha" --> "+1 to her choice of Dex, Wis, or Cha" seems more natural.
    • Warrior Caste: "The Drow is trained rigorously adapt cutthroat discipline to even esoteric or less militant schools of combat." Insert "to" between "trained" and "rigorously". Also, converting 3/4 BAB classes to full BAB one level at a time = holy crap gishtastic. Not OP at that slow rate as far as I can tell, but awesomely useful.
    • Assassin Caste: Flanking ability should note whether her allies treat the foe as flanked, or just her. "If she delivers damage..." should be "If she deals damage..."; it looks less weird.
    • Devout Caste: Should specify if she can later gain Turn Undead from another source.
    • Casteless/Exile: "...standing in society that he is or is close to being a slave..." Change "he is or is" to "he or she is".
    • Casteless/Exile: I realize they, uh, kinda deserve to be screwed. And I'm not complaining about free XP. But can't we throw them a little bit of a bone? Since they're liable to be doing it fairly often, the ability to not provoke AoOs for the first two squares of movement (instead of one) when performing the Withdraw action seems appropriate Change it to an extra square per 5HD or something if you think it ought to scale.
    • Scheming: "...for the purposes of dealing with that foe only; Any benefits..." Change semicolon to period.

    Drow. Cool. I just wish we could add a blanket ban on TWFing scimitars and/or black panther animal companions. Then it'd be all set :-)
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 07:22 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  19. - Top - End - #1009
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Dang, you're fixing stuff faster than I can find it! Here's the next one:

    Casteless/Exile: "...standing in society that he is or is close to being a slave..." Change "he is or is" to "he or she is".
    The goal of that sentence, rather, was to say something like, "...standing in society that he is a slave, or is so low in status as to almost qualify as being one."

    Edit

    Drow Changes, March 2nd, 2011:
    • Fixed vague Knowledge under class skills.
    • Fixed singular vs. plural Drow is/are appearing in the same sentence under proficiencies.
    • Added Drow Silent under language options.
    • Changed wording under attribute bonus.
    • Clarified wording under Warrior Caste.
    • Assassin Caste now specifies that the bonus only applies to the Drow herself.
    • Devout Caste now specifies that the Drow can gain turn undead from another class or source.
    • Casteless Exile wording fixed, where sentence was both grammatically incorrect and misleading.
    • Casteless Exile drow now get the ability to ignore AoOs for their first 10' of movement, this extends with every 5HD.
    • Removed semicolon in Scheming. I'll use a semicolon and have it stick, one of these days!
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 07:37 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #1010
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    The goal of that sentence, rather, was to say something like, "...standing in society that he is a slave, or is so low in status as to almost qualify as being one."
    Ah! Got it now. My bad.

    Working on plant symbionts for Greenbound Creature/Paragon as I write this. We'll see how far I get by the end of class XD.

    Edit: One more thing: "Drow speak Elven and either Undercommon or Drow Silent as their starting language and gain additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal." First instance of "language" should be plural.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 07:39 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  21. - Top - End - #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Edit: One more thing: "Drow speak Elven and either Undercommon or Drow Silent as their starting language and gain additional languages for a high intelligence score as normal." First instance of "language" should be plural.
    Thanks, that's fixed.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2011-03-02 at 07:41 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #1012
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    On the monstrous spider, it says it bypasses immunity to poison, but what if the target also has immunity to ability damage?
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  23. - Top - End - #1013
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Oh, one other question for Gorgondantess- if they have, say, levels-1 Telepath manifesting, then multiclass into Psy Rogue with stacking PP, etc, does it have an effective 4 Telepath levels and 6 Psy Rogue levels? 'Cause that seems ... strong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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  24. - Top - End - #1014
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    On the monstrous spider, it says it bypasses immunity to poison, but what if the target also has immunity to ability damage?
    Clarified what I meant by 'immunity', there, to include both poison and ability damage.

  25. - Top - End - #1015
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Still not ready for formal critique, but for anyone who's interested, Oak and Sunflower symbionts are up. Which, incidentally, puts us to four out of eight completed (or possibly out of seven, as I still have no idea what to do with the rest of Ivy). Halfway there!

    Edit: Also, Hyudra, was it your intent for the casteless/exile drow ability to apply to all movement? When I suggested it, I only saw it as applying to the Withdraw action. If it's going to be for all movement, A) it's certainly a bit more on par with what the other castes get, which is probably a good thing, and B) I'd consider starting it at 5' and scaling from there so it's not too good when combined with the free experience.
    Last edited by Psyborg; 2011-03-02 at 08:37 PM.
    delete Teemo.

  26. - Top - End - #1016
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyborg View Post
    Still not ready for formal critique, but for anyone who's interested, Oak and Sunflower symbionts are up. Which, incidentally, puts us to four out of eight completed (or possibly out of seven, as I still have no idea what to do with the rest of Ivy). Halfway there!

    Edit: Also, Hyudra, was it your intent for the casteless/exile drow ability to apply to all movement? When I suggested it, I only saw it as applying to the Withdraw action. If it's going to be for all movement, A) it's certainly a bit more on par with what the other castes get, which is probably a good thing, and B) I'd consider starting it at 5' and scaling from there so it's not too good when combined with the free experience.
    I toned it down to 5'.

  27. - Top - End - #1017
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    After looking the Monstrous spider over I give it my approval.
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  28. - Top - End - #1018
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Waiting for Gorgon to give the final verdict, then.

    Saguaro Sentinel - looks about done. Gorgon is satisfied. Your vote?

  29. - Top - End - #1019
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    I'm thinking monstrous spider should be good to go for the list. Though, again, my attention span isn't quite great enough to coherently go over the class as a whole, so consider my recommendation quite fallible.
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  30. - Top - End - #1020
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes VI

    Monstrous Spider added to the list. Waiting for Kyuubi's a-ok on Senor Saguaro.

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