Magitech in DnD 3.5e (PEACH)

[3SecondCultist]

There is another way to have a cruder version of magitech in a setting such as yours. Try using a base class somewhat like the Pathfinder Artificer (3rd Part class, but still), which just creates devices that emulate spells and work properly a certain amount of times per day. It is a decent class, and is worth thinking about if an outsider travels to this technological Shangri-La.

It's a good class to look at nonetheless.

[Ralasha]

Indeed! Or... you could just use normal Artificers. >.>
Huh? One fried wizard? Who fried it, me?
*fries the one with the one just fried using the spell now memorized.* +2 fried wizard! ^^ It's enchanted!

[3SecondCultist]

Yeah, but personally I like the Pathfinder ones better, but I digress.

I like your ship design, but do you have any specific design models? If you are putting this in a setting, is there a particular type of ship design that you are fond of?

[Critical]

Actually, a bit toned down artificer probably IS the way to go. Giving the almighty wizards the ability to make extra-awesome items in addition to their own power just seems too much to me.

[Welknair]

I came up with some new ideas that'll I'll post along with the rest.

And yes, I do have some designs made. Namely I've been working on the Tarrasque-Class Cruiser and the smaller Couatl-Class fighters that accompany it. However, I've just been hit by the idea to use the ability to have Tapestries convey spell effects to multiple objects to cut down on power costs for Thrust Disks. So I have some new clarifications for that system to post, but it'll allow much more power-effective travel.

Once I'm done outlining all of the rules and systems, I intend to post various devices, mechs, and ships that I've devised.

As for this system adding to the power of wizards... These are all spells that wizards cast anyways. Except now they're only usable 3/day and cost a deal. This isn't giving wizards power... it's taking it. This allows powers that had formerly been "Wizard Only" to be available to other classes for a bit of GP. Now instead of being the "Almighty Wizard" he's the "Nerdy dude who fixes my gun". I actually like it.

Rest of the rules and the "Thrust Net" (Replacing the Disks) to be posted this afternoon.

[Ralasha]

>.> Buh? What? huh? (Just making it possible for you to post again. consider it a friendly bump.

[Welknair]

Why thank you.

I am mid-way through making my changes. I'd advise you to check out the general info on Tapestries again, as well as the section on Create Thrust.

[Jack_Simth]

It's interesting how the Versatile Spellcaster idea conflicts with the Rod of Absorption Property...

The formula being used for the stones is the same as that for the runestaff, found in the Magic Item Compendium.

Search around a bit, in an update I added info as to the CL and DCs. Namely, both are based upon the power tapestry feeding the runestaff/stone. CL is that of the Tapestry and the DC is the "minimum" (10+Spell level+Spell level/2, for a second level spell being 10+2+1=13).

Well, if we're assuming that these devices exist in a world (or island nation) where this type of technology is everywhere, I'd assume that that wouldn't be the case. There would be feed-outs of the main network numerous places, as a power grid. I could imagine shops that paid for such a connection charging customers for access to it, as they in turn charge their various devices. And some people would rather spend gp than skill points.

And it doesn't take much (about another 5k using a schematic) to add a recharger onto this thing and ditch your caster.

Versatility is also notable. You could have a small hand-held device with Detect Magic, Undead, Secret Doors, Creatures, and possibly Poison, and have them all fed by the same battery. If nothing else it's a way to use up those extra spell slots. "Roll over" spell slots seem like a very powerful idea to me...

Disintigrate is 7th, this type of device can't transmit the effects of a spells greater than 3rd. And Dispelling a Tapestry is a common tactic. Given the way targeting these things work, you can Dispel parts from outside the vessel, often paralyzing at least parts of the ship's functions if it's large enough, or turning the thing off completely for smaller things. Heat metal would be a good one! OWW OWW OWW. Though it would only effect the objects directly linked to the network, though this would admittedly include turrets and control panels, which generally are occupied...

So Jack, I'm trying to figure something out. Are you:
A. Bored and you found this thread
B. Interested, but think it needs various fixes
C. Just critical

A little of all three. It's still useful, though. If you're looking at something that's intended for use in an actual game, you'll want to keep it something that's reasonably balanced vs. other options - and pointing out existing ways to do comperable things, then comparing to those comperable things, will help you hone the balance point, to something that's "Hmm, decisions, decisions..." when a player is looking at buying it (where you want, because that means it's reasonably balanced vs. other options), vs. "YES!! ME WANT!!!" which is usually overpowered or "Pfft, no" (which is usually underpowered).

Checking for things like: "OK, what's the save DC when a noncaster is using a box where the save DC and caster level is normally based on the caster?" (Runestones) help you avoid "Oh, wait..." style problems (which sometimes pop up in published works: I once ran across a monster that said those affected by a particular ability it had lose spell slots "randomly". It never defined a method for selecting them. Yet that'd come up the first time the critter saw play). Then there's also little things - for instance, the Golem Manuals specify that they provide a listing of specific things, and they also specify they don't supply a particular portion. There's a few items in the list of stuff needed for golems, however, that are not specified as provided, or not, in the golem manual item description (specifically, the 'magic item crafting supplies' that are a hefty cost). Some DM's will go one way on those, others will go the other direction. But such stuff is only found by picking nits.



Hmm... so in summary, the actual caster is usually going to be better served by simply getting an appropriate runestaff, the noncaster is usually going to be well served by getting a few stones to swap out, a decent battery, and a recharge method. Hmm.

[Welknair]

A very sensible answer, and the type of thing I like . You are quite correct and I appreciate your nitpicking as it has caused me to critically analyze this system from an objective stand point. It'll of course need further refinements and I haven't actually tested any of this.

And yes, that is the idea I'm going for. This technology was made to put the power of Wizards in the hands of other, less squishy, individuals. The Wizard is probably going to do better to just stick with his magic, while the previously mentioned Ranger is going to literally have a "Blast" with the tech. Or at least that's what I'm going for.

[Ralasha]

The only problem with that is: the Wizards, a majority of them, will be unwilling. Since they will not want to share their power, thereby making themselves obsolete. Instead you could use outsiders. Elementals, Celestials and such, bound to items as their source of power.

[Welknair]

"Hey, if it means I don't have to go out where things are dangerous, and still get paid, I'm all for it!"

They could conserve their valuable Wizard resources by using Wizard Substitutes that are capable of using this technology.

[Ralasha]

They could conserve their valuable wizard resources by spending all of their Experience, and doing nothing to get any more, until finally in the end, there are no more wizards... yes... brilliant, if I do say so myself.

[Welknair]

Well, the Wizards would likely captain a Skyship and there would likely be one nearby a group of Mech Soldiers (Close enough for EXP, anyways). The Wizards would simply be bolstering their less-magically-gifted colleagues as to improve their ability to act as a meat shield.

[Ralasha]

I can show you a wizard capable of tanking if you would like. It doesn't use any classes but wizard. >.>

[Welknair]

Yes, yes, I know it's quite possible. But most wizards don't like that kind of thing. There are the crazy ones that always prepare Tenser's Transformation...

[Ralasha]

Nope. I just use still spell. Oh look, What Arcane Spell Failure from Fullplate?

[Welknair]

So you're acting as if you're two levels lower than you are? (In terms of spells and levels). I guess it works... Or couldn't you get Mithral Armor enchanted with Twilight? Or couldn't you let the Fighter do his job? He doesn't get much, you should at least give him that.

[Ralasha]

Meh, oh no... I cast spells at +1 spell level, in exchange, I get to walk into a battle and go *negative energy burst*. Or *Corona* or Nestyls Acid Sheath+stoneskin+fireshield, and let them kill themselves hitting me.

[3SecondCultist]

... come on here people, you've got to be fair to the little guy. As for wizards captaining ships, I wouldn't recommend it. If you are making the magic closer to technology, then the wizard would equate to something more along the lines of the chief mechanical officer. You would need more Charisma to be a good captain. Rogues and Dashing Swordsmen make good captains.

[Ralasha]

That's why they call me 'Bad Company'. *head bangs*

[Welknair]

"But the Paladin's an idiot!"
"Go back to Engineering!"
"Yes sir...."

Skills and Prestige are up! I'll probably post some devices and ships I've come up with later.

[Ralasha]

This is why you use my Paladin variant: The Templar of Steel. They aren't retards.

[Welknair]

Hmm. I can make about 90% of Star Trek. Problem is our Transporter goes with the away team... I guess we can program it to come back on it's own...

[3SecondCultist]

Wait, you can has black holes? How?

[Ralasha]

Sphere of Annihilation + inwards pull.

[Welknair]

Where did you think the waste went? If we're making spaceships, of course we can make basic artifacts...

Actually, the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction Spell would work nicely, if you could enlarge the range enough such to get it into the middle of a planet.

[Ralasha]

You need Annihilation Cannons! You know, Point Singularity Weapons.

[3SecondCultist]

Yeah, but a Sphere of Annihilation is three feet in diameter. A black hole is enormous.

Edit: What is Sphere of Ultimate Destruction?

[Ralasha]

Not the singularity itself. Which is infinitely small according to current scientific hypothesis.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm... possible problem:
Nova.

You explicitly allow the method to set off more than one Stone at a time.

So I'm a Sorcerer, and I get a CL 9 Tapestry (9,000 - 15 ends; one "in", 14 "out", if I'm reading this right), as many Runestones of Magic Missile as I can afford that will fit (14 of them at 3/day would be... what, 5,600?), and a battery sufficient to set them off (14 charges, 14,000), and a simple switch (10 gp) between the battery and the rest of the Tapestry. 28610 gp for the set - about WBL for a character a little over 8th level.

What do I do with it?

I cast 14 levels worth of spells into it (charge the battery). I point it at someone, and set it off as a standard action.

Target soaks 70 missiles, each dealing 1d4+1 Force damage. That's an average of 245 points of damage dealt. I can do this three times per day, before digging in to bonus spell slots, if I'm a Sorc-8.

Of the CR-10 SRD monsters:
A Colossal Animated Object will have (on average), 11 HP remaining.
A Young Adult Brass Dragon will be dead (despite SR).
A Couatl will be VERY dead.
An 11-headed Hydra will be dead about twice over. Forget about the 9-headed Pyro and Cryo hydras.
The Bebilith will be dead.
A Formian Myrmarch has enough SR to probably survive (on average, takes 1/4 of the normal average damage - 61.25 damage, vs. 102 HP).
A Fire Giant is dead.
A Clay Golem is untouched (magic Immunity)
A Gargantuan Monstrous Scorpion is dead.
A Guardian Naga is dead.
A Rakshasa has enough SR to probably survive (on average, takes 15% of the normal average damage - 36.75 damage, vs. 52 hp)
A Juvenile Red Dragon is dead.
A Noble Salamander is dead.
A Juvenile Silver Dragon is dead.
An Adult White Dragon has a chance of survival (on average, takes 60% of the normal average damage - 147 damage, vs. 189 hp)

So a character just a little past 8th is taking down 12 of 17 standard CR 10 critters. On his own, in one standard action, if he can get a turn, three times per day. And most of the ones that survive will be thinking of retreating.

I may have detected a problem.