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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Edit: I went seriously off-track and now I seem to just be looking at interesting LG prestige classes, particularly the Celestial Mystic.

    I have a character in an upcoming campaign. She's a Lawful Good half-elf, a Wizard of High Sorcery in the White Robes (using a homebrew base class instead of going Wizard/WoHS), and she specializes in enchantment and illusion (more illusion than enchantment). The latter has two reasons: Enchantment and illusion run pretty deeply in the family (most notably, her mother and grandfather, who were her two major influences), and I wanted to play a Beguiler.

    Of course, I didn't look at the fluff for Beguiler or even thought about the class' name for even a second; I just thought, "Hey, a class focused on enchantment and illusion? Count me in!"

    And then I looked at the fluff and the class' name, and I realized it's not exactly something a Lawful Good person is going to go for.

    I could change her alignment, but I'd rather change the class.

    What are some nifty illusion prestige classes or base classes that would suit an LG character? It doesn't have to scream "Paladin" or anything, it just has to be something that doesn't seem as... sneaky as Beguiler. She's not really the sort that I would imagine having a feat called Cloaked anything. I tend to focus on pattern spells with illusion anyway, and she'll be taking a healthy dose of transmutation as well. She isn't meant to be a war wizard of any sort, she's just there to try to help.

    I've been thinking maybe just simply going with one of the Illusionist variants for the wizard. If all else fails, I'll switch specialties and go with Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil.
    Last edited by onthetown; 2011-01-09 at 12:27 PM.
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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Is changing the fluff of the class not an option? The default Beguiler description isn't very Lawful at all, but that's not set in stone. Really, any use of illusions (Deceiving people) or enchantments (altering people's will or minds) could be construed as non-Lawful or Non-Good if you squint hard enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Changing the fluff is an option, but I'm just looking at other classes right now. I'm tempted to switch over to abjuration, but I haven't had an illusionist in awhile.

    Really, any use of illusions (Deceiving people) or enchantments (altering people's will or minds) could be construed as non-Lawful or Non-Good if you squint hard enough.
    This is an issue I'm having trouble getting around. My idea for an LG illusionist/enchantress just seems to want to fail. We've done a few intro sessions and the most she's cast has been Daze and Colour Spray, so those seem innocent enough, but once she gets higher up it'll be more of an issue.

    At this point I'm happy to just get advice on how to play an LG illusionist.
    Last edited by onthetown; 2011-01-09 at 12:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Eh? There's nothing to stop a Beguiler from being LG. Fluff is what you make it.

    LG Beguilers are described as "rare" but that just means you'll stand out. One of my favorite character concepts is a Beguiler that goes into Exalted Arcanist from BoED, taking Vow of Nonviolence - she uses illusions and enchantments because she wants to fight evil without hurting anyone.

    To be LG, just focus on Enchantments more than illusions, and fluff it as imposing magical rules upon miscreants, criminals and evildoers. Then cart them off to the local magistrate while they are your mystic prisoners.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Eh? There's nothing to stop a Beguiler from being LG. Fluff is what you make it.

    LG Beguilers are described as "rare" but that just means you'll stand out. One of my favorite character concepts is a Beguiler that goes into Exalted Arcanist from BoED, taking Vow of Nonviolence - she uses illusions and enchantments because she wants to fight evil without hurting anyone.

    To be LG, just focus on Enchantments more than illusions, and fluff it as imposing magical rules upon miscreants, criminals and evildoers. Then cart them off to the local magistrate while they are your mystic prisoners.
    I'm trying to play less of a stereotypical LG hunt-down-evil sort of thing, and more of a character who is just a genuinely nice person. So she won't be making anybody a "prisoner", but she'll definitely be trying to convince them that they're wrong and get them to ask for forgiveness or something before bringing them to the authorities.

    So I guess I could fluff it as her using her magic to try to make them better people? It seems like it might work.

    Exalted Arcanist and the Vow of Nonviolence sounds perfect for her. I'm looking into it.
    Last edited by onthetown; 2011-01-09 at 12:06 PM.
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    Spamalot in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by onthetown View Post
    I'm trying to play less of a stereotypical LG hunt-down-evil sort of thing, and more of a character who is just a genuinely nice person. So she won't be making anybody a "prisoner", but she'll definitely be trying to convince them that they're wrong and get them to ask for forgiveness or something before bringing them to the authorities.

    So I guess I could fluff it as her using her magic to try to make them better people? It seems like it might work.

    Exalted Arcanist and the Vow of Nonviolence sounds perfect for her. I'm looking into it.
    You sure you want to be LG then? NG sounds better for "a genuinely nice person", and then you wouldn't have any problems with illusions at all.

    To quote Asmodeus, "Law is nothing without Punishment" - n LG character will certainly try to talk things out first, but if the bandit leader refuses to see reason and won't stop preying on the countryside, a LG character will definitely drag his ass to the village to see justice done, or slap a Geas/MoJ on him. "Justice" is the operative word for LG.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    No reason not to go with beguiler. Just use your skillpoints for knowledge skills instead of the rogue-type skills. There's nothing chaotic or non-good about the class's features.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    You sure you want to be LG then? NG sounds better for "a genuinely nice person", and then you wouldn't have any problems with illusions at all.

    To quote Asmodeus, "Law is nothing without Punishment" - n LG character will certainly try to talk things out first, but if the bandit leader refuses to see reason and won't stop preying on the countryside, a LG character will definitely drag his ass to the village to see justice done, or slap a Geas/MoJ on him. "Justice" is the operative word for LG.
    That's what I meant, sorry -- that she'll first be trying to talk them out of something. She wants to see evil gone, she'd just prefer to do it the nice way first.

    I think just taking a Vow of Nonviolence from the BoED might solve some of my confusion with this. I can specialize as an illusionist and still call her good, since she doesn't want to hurt people.

    And I'm looking through the book at all the interesting prestige classes, particularly the Celestial Mystic -- which has nothing to do with what I started out looking for, but it's intriguing nonetheless and sort of might work for her.
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    Default Re: Lawful Good illusion prestige classes (3.x/PF)

    The synergy is also fantastic; VoN boosts your save DCs by +4 (untyped.) Sacred Vow itself also gives you +2 to Diplomacy checks, improving your chances of talking people down. (This is a Perfection bonus i.e. stacks with almost everything.) If you decide to go Celestial Mystic, you'll also have one of the prereqs satisfied.

    There's nothing to stop you from taking both CM and EA. EA is only 5 levels long, and CM is 10. But personally, I don't see anything in CM to justify losing another caster level. (Celestial Mystic is fun for good-aligned Shadowcasters however.) The best abilities are the Celestial Spells (you don't know any of them) and the holy bolts which let you turn cantrips into 4d6 untyped damage (doesn't fit your concept.) Though the immunity to death effects is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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