Results 1 to 30 of 39
Thread: Venerable Lich?
-
2011-01-09, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Venerable Lich?
I was preparing a BBEG for a short campaign, as o was going through stats I realized that as a former human who is know well passed the qualifying age for humans to become venerable.
Can a 400 year old Lich qualify to become venerable? If so, is it appropriate to apply all the usual penalties to physical stats for living being to an undead immortal?
-
2011-01-09, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Virginia
-
2011-01-09, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Not by RAW, since Undead don't age or taking aging penalties.
However, if the Lich was able to avoid the penalties of aging(or just took them, since Con goes out the window after lichification), he could become a Lich after aging to venerable status and retain the modifications to the base ability scores.
Alternatively, there is the Evolved Undead template which represents a very similar thematic thing of undead gaining in power with age and exposure to sources of power, of which both fluff things a Lich would be very likely to have. I believe it's from Libris Mortis.
As for a house rule that allows aging penalties/benefits to undead, I could see Liches and certain other undead certainly becoming stiffer with age and dessication, and more cerebral undead expanding their cognitive functions. Though I would say it'd probably be slightly different for different types of undead whether they age and what sorts of bonus/penalties they take.
Since they are technically capable of being magically maintained with things like gentle repose as well as infusions of negative energy amongst more esoteric things not explicitly covered in the rules.
Then again, maybe living to the point where the body's no longer capable of much/any motility is what triggers the transformation into Demi-Lich!?
-
2011-01-09, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
IIRC, the moment you stop aging, you can still accrue the aging bonuses from being a certain age, but you don't acquire any further aging penalties after that. Nice, right?
-
2011-01-09, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Central Florida, USA
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
I believe undead don'tget aging bonuses, because their body is kept in the state it was when they became undead, and is forever the same.
Yeah. That was made up on the spot.
However, there is a lovely little template called "Evolved Undead" from the Book of Bad Latin that should be what you're looking for.
EDIT: DAMN YOU, SWORDSAGE!Last edited by The-Mage-King; 2011-01-09 at 11:38 PM.
Avatar by Ceika.
Steam account. Add me to argue aboutphilosophywhatever!
Advertized Homebrew: Fire Emblem 4's Holy Blood as Bloodlines
Extended Signature.
Using a different color of text for sarcasm is so original.
-
2011-01-09, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- In an apartment
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Nope, any bonuses that the Lich had gained while alive would carry over, but the undead do not age. You can advance an undead by alternate means by using Evolved Undead template from Libris Mortis. Basically it states that every 100 years an undead has the chance to evolve.
-
2011-01-09, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Location
- USA
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
If Liches get aging penalties, that would imply that there is a maximum life on liches...
which would mean awesome plotline for any lich long enough to figure this out! New quest: find true immortality!
By RAW, as others pointed out, no, you don't get aging penalties or bonuses (though you keep the bonuses you have).ze/zir | she/her
Omnia Vincit Amor
-
2011-01-09, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Re: Venerable Lich?
Evolved undead from Libris Mortis you guys say? I never gave Libris Mortis more than a cursory glance (way too many 3.5 books not enough free time on my hands).
Unfortunately the flashdrive that held my 3.5 books went through the wash this morning and the back up copies on my laptop are unreachable for the forseeable future (in other words until I can buy a replacement power cord for the thing) can anyone give me a brief rundown of what evolved undead are?
-
2011-01-09, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Virginia
-
2011-01-09, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Re: Venerable Lich?
Exactly sir
Edit: if posting something like that is against forum rules. Then don't bother, I'll take the incentive to get off my lazy butt and buy a new cord
Edit edit: I should have also specified that this was for a Pathfinder game and I'd like to stick as much to the Pathfinder PDFs I bought (has my name on em and everything :D) as possible I wouldn't object to adapting some 3.5 material if it fits the theme, which it seems to, and doesn't slaughter my player, which I might accidentally do on my own :(Last edited by Sarakos; 2011-01-10 at 12:07 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- In an apartment
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Every 100 years (Or whenever the DM feels like it) there is a 1% chance that an undead evolves. The changes are as follows.
Natural or Deflection increases by 1.
Gains SLA 1/day (Roll 1d12 to determine): Circle of Death, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Confusion, Contagion, Creeping Doom, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Invisibility, Haste, Hold Monster, See Invisibility, Unholy Blight.
Gains Fast Healing 3 as long as it has at least 1hp.
Corporeal gains +2Str/Cha, Incorporeal only gains +2 Cha
+1 CR
Template can be gained multiple times.Last edited by Waker; 2011-01-10 at 12:01 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Venerable Lich?
He could also mean that the book he physically owns is beyond his reach, and the pdf he legally made as a backup copy has become inaccessible. IIRC current copyright law allows you to space-shift material yourself.
-
2011-01-10, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
All "Evolved Undead" gives you is +2 Str and Cha, a random SLA from a wonky grabbag (some gems, some turkeys), a tiny boost to AC and some fast healing. The template can be applied multiple times, but it won't do squat for a wizard lich.
It also increases the LA each time, though that won't matter in this case.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2011-01-10, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- Boulder, CO
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Evolved undead is pretty cool; just bear in mind how old you actually have to be to reasonably have evolved once or twice. As Waker said, you have a 1% chance of evolving every hundred years, so if you're going to take the template once or twice, better make sure your DM is okay with it and you're old enough to justify it. I also prefer to work out an arrangement with the DM as to what SLA you get, so you can get something flavorful for your character rather than just junky and random.
Last edited by Dr Bwaa; 2011-01-10 at 12:18 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Central Florida, USA
- Gender
Avatar by Ceika.
Steam account. Add me to argue aboutphilosophywhatever!
Advertized Homebrew: Fire Emblem 4's Holy Blood as Bloodlines
Extended Signature.
Using a different color of text for sarcasm is so original.
-
2011-01-10, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- Boulder, CO
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
My statement stands as it is As long as you can convince yourself that 400 years is enough time to have evolved once or twice, have at it. I do think the SLAs offer some pretty flavorful customization, especially for a main character--PC or BBEG, either way.
EDIT: Also, that reply was crazy fast. Your forum-fu is strong.Last edited by Dr Bwaa; 2011-01-10 at 12:21 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- In an apartment
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
The nice thing about the template is that you can sneak it in without changing an encounter that much, so the players won't cry too hard. Of course as a DM, you can just tailor a monster to your needs, but for those who require something to be written down, this is handy.
-
2011-01-10, 12:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Central Florida, USA
- Gender
Last edited by The-Mage-King; 2011-01-10 at 12:23 AM.
Avatar by Ceika.
Steam account. Add me to argue aboutphilosophywhatever!
Advertized Homebrew: Fire Emblem 4's Holy Blood as Bloodlines
Extended Signature.
Using a different color of text for sarcasm is so original.
-
2011-01-10, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
4 1% chances, right?
Spoiler.01 *.01 *.01 *.01 = 1.0 × 10-8
.01 * .99 * .99 * .99 = 0.00970299
.01 * .01 * .99 * .99 = 9.80100 × 10-5
.01 * .01 * .01 * .99 = 9.9 × 10-7
...Dangit, I forgot what math to use here to calculate the probability of getting at least one as opposed to the probability of only getting one.
Curse you rarely utilized math learned in high school! *shakes fist*
-
2011-01-10, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Venerable Lich?
The probability of at least 1 is:
1 - (probability of none) = 1 - (.99)^4 = 0.03940399, or about 4%.Last edited by Darth Crater; 2011-01-10 at 01:24 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- (r, theta, phi) in S2
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
The chances of getting X successes in N trials, where each trial has a probability P of success, is
(N!/(X!*(N-X)!))*P^X*(1-P)^(N-X)
This is the Binomial Distribution.
/math
-
2011-01-10, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Venerable Lich?
I made a venerable lich once. He was a druid with timeless body (I ruled that since he continued to age and his brain developed, he got the mental stat bonuses, but none of the physical stat penalties. Only after he reached venerable did he undergo the process for becoming a lich.
-
2011-01-10, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2011-01-10, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2011-01-10, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Venerable Lich?
Now if you want the most broken thing you can find...
Lich + (non psionic) Genesis.
They proceed to create a new plane where every second on the material plane is say...a million years on their plane, then they jump there.
Now, bring the evolved undead template in...as it has a +1% cumulative every hundread years...thats only 10,000 years to get to 100% chance of achieving it! Now assuming they failed every single check before getting to 100...they could still get the template applied about 59,000 times in one round
Stupid in the extreme, but funny.
-
2011-01-10, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: Venerable Lich?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
-
2011-01-10, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
What if a Dragonwrought Kobold reached venerable age before becoming a lich? Or do you mean reaching venerable age after gaining lichdom?
-
2011-01-10, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Liches don't age because they are undead, not because they are immortal. You would have to become Venerable before you die.
As for Evolved Undead, as I said before - that only works if the lich in question was a sorcerer. Evolved Undead does nothing for your Int or Wis scores.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2011-01-10, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
Re: Venerable Lich?
Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-01-10 at 08:33 AM.
-
2011-01-10, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009