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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    I'm considering including defense bonuses in an upcoming campaign, and I'm wondering how they function in play -- my only experience with them is a game of Engel i played long ago.

    I'm thinking of having Armor Work as DR, Shields granting a defense bonus which stacks with your class based defense bonus. Is this a good way to go about things?

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    If you can find the 3.x version of Unearthed Arcana, chapter 4 includes varient rules for using level-based defense bonuses and having armor work as damage reduction. It's pretty similar to WotC's first and second Star Wars outings.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    Last edited by Tengu_temp; 2011-01-10 at 01:26 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    I would advise against armor as DR.

    It has the big problem of making multiple smaller attacks inferior to one large attack. Given that chargers and the like are already generally superior to dual wielders, archery, and other spammers of light attacks, this can be rough on melee diversity.

    I've not used class defense in D&D, but I've used it in D20M, in conjunction with armor, and it's solid. Makes AC stacking much more viable.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    I'm considering including defense bonuses in an upcoming campaign, and I'm wondering how they function in play -- my only experience with them is a game of Engel i played long ago.

    I'm thinking of having Armor Work as DR, Shields granting a defense bonus which stacks with your class based defense bonus. Is this a good way to go about things?
    It depends how much you give everyone and exactly what type of bonus it is (Natural Armor Vs. Deflection Vs. Dodge Vs. whatever else).

    As for Shields, by the rules their bonus already would stack with the defensive bonus that you're considering implementing (unless you make the bonus a shield bonus, but that would be silly), but I would go one step further and make the bonus they give apply to touch attacks as well, otherwise the disparity between one's normal AC and Touch AC makes Touch attacks too useful and casters better than they need to be.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    Right now I'm calling it the "Class Bonus" to Defense, so it won't have any trouble stacking.

    You are right -- it really needs to apply vs touch attacks...so it will!

    As for armor, how do i handle enhancement bonuses? As armor no longer provides an ac bonus, i think a few options are in order:

    1) Enhancement bonuses to armor add to the Armor DR
    2) Armor can be enchanted to provide deflection bonus

    Also, natural armor would probably just become armor, as stacking Armor DR + Enhancement DR + Natural DR would be a huge pain for melee characters.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    Exactly how much DR is armor going to give anyhow? In the game I'm currently running, I use the UA Armor as DR, as written, and a custom class defense bonus system. It seems to work fairly well, although the people who really game the system can get some truly ludicrous defensive numbers.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Systems That Use Defense Bonuses: How Do They Play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalnawr View Post
    Exactly how much DR is armor going to give anyhow? In the game I'm currently running, I use the UA Armor as DR, as written, and a custom class defense bonus system. It seems to work fairly well, although the people who really game the system can get some truly ludicrous defensive numbers.
    It would probably go up to 5 for full plate, hang around 3 for chain, and start at 1 for leather armor.

    Though the UA way certainly seems pretty sweet.

    As for defense bonuses, I was thinking of having them mirror save progression

    6 = poor

    9 = average (just made it up, but idk why there isn't an average save progression)

    12=good

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