Knight's Armor Mastery and Mountain Plate

[Beelzebub1111]

When a Knight reaches 9th level and ignores heavy armor movement penalties, does that include superheavy armors like mountain plate?

[Combat Reflexes]

As far as I know, it states nowhere that he can't. And it's not that knights don't need a bit of optimization either, so I would rule yes.

It would still be a bit of a difficulcy for a mounted knight...

[Optimator]

Both Knights and Mountain Plate are underpowered so I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it working.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

As long as the Mountain Plate is explicitly "heavy armor" rather than just "exotic armor," it should work. Although there are two negatives here and I'm not sure what the general rule is for that in DND.

[Keld Denar]

Given that mountain plate bypasses a dwarf's ability to move normally in heavy armor, I'd say it does the same for a knight's similar ability. You know, just extrapolating rules.

Balance-wise, I agree with Optimator, but from a pure rules standpoint, I'd garner that mountain plate trumps the knight like it trumps the dwarf.

[Halae]

Given that mountain plate bypasses a dwarf's ability to move normally in heavy armor, I'd say it does the same for a knight's similar ability. You know, just extrapolating rules.

Balance-wise, I agree with Optimator, but from a pure rules standpoint, I'd garner that mountain plate trumps the knight like it trumps the dwarf.

In that case, go for mechanus gear, from the Planar Handbook, as it has no such clause yet works almost exactly the same

[DrizztFan24]

but from a pure rules standpoint, I'd garner that mountain plate trumps the knight like it trumps the dwarf.

You should never let the truth get in the way of what REALLY happened when telling a story...so don't let the rules get in the way of what really shouldn't be too bad.

[nedz]

Races of Stone p 157 States that Mountain Plate is Exotic Heavy Armour.
It also states that you need the Dwarven Armour Proficiency to use.
It even slows Dwarfs down and making it out of Mithril (etc.) doesn't reduce it to Medium Armour.
I don't know what that means in terms of rules.

[big teej]

I don't know how helpful this is, but my group has decided wholesale that NO armor is worth a feat, the balance is built into the cost.

[Halae]

Races of Stone p 157 States that Mountain Plate is Exotic Heavy Armour.
It also states that you need the Dwarven Armour Proficiency to use.
It even slows Dwarfs down and making it out of Mithril (etc.) doesn't reduce it to Medium Armour.
I don't know what that means in terms of rules.

It means we have an entirely new size for armors that goes past even heavy. Taking it from Dragon Age: Origins, I like to call said sets of plate Massive Armor

[Thurbane]

Given that mountain plate bypasses a dwarf's ability to move normally in heavy armor, I'd say it does the same for a knight's similar ability. You know, just extrapolating rules.

Balance-wise, I agree with Optimator, but from a pure rules standpoint, I'd garner that mountain plate trumps the knight like it trumps the dwarf.

I wonder if the Tooth of Savnok (ToM) would work?

[Zaq]

Given that mountain plate bypasses a dwarf's ability to move normally in heavy armor, I'd say it does the same for a knight's similar ability. You know, just extrapolating rules.

Balance-wise, I agree with Optimator, but from a pure rules standpoint, I'd garner that mountain plate trumps the knight like it trumps the dwarf.

But that's not actually going purely the rules. The rules simply say that the knight doesn't face movement penalties. Period. Mountain plate doesn't say that you can't reduce the movement penalties, merely that one specific source of reducing movement penalties doesn't work. The rules absolutely allow a knight to use mountain plate without movement penalties.

[Keld Denar]

They are both written with absolutes, though. One says "NEVAR EVAR HAZ MOVEMENT PENALTIEZ", and the other says "ALWAYS HAZ MOVEMENT PENALTIEZ, EVEN THEN!".

When you have two absolute statements like that, you look for other exceptions. Mountain Plate has an exception written in it, that even dwarves are encumbered by it. Knight doesn't have any exceptions. Given that trend, its not an unreasonable extrapolation.

More reason than stating it doesn't cause a problem for a Knight, simply because Knight doesn't refer to something that wasn't even published in the same book.

[Zaq]

I'm not really convinced. Mountain plate isn't really written as an absolute. All it says is that a dwarf is slowed as if he or she were not a dwarf. That really doesn't seem terribly absolute to me. The knight's Armor Mastery has nothing to say about dwarves.

[Keld Denar]

Eh, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was just musing over it. I don't see what makes one interpretation more correct than the other, and in the absense of that, I go with the only other similarity.

Your welcome to read it any way you want. I was mearly pointing out a patern I saw.

[Starbuck_II]

They are both written with absolutes, though. One says "NEVAR EVAR HAZ MOVEMENT PENALTIEZ", and the other says "ALWAYS HAZ MOVEMENT PENALTIEZ, EVEN THEN!".

Logically, you can't have both.
If Knight is true, armor is false. Vice Versa.

I'd say Knight is true: armor says Dwarf/Mithral false not "no way to ignore".
So Knight isn't directly negated. I feel it is reaching too much.