Diplomacy options

[Irving]

Hi all! I'm running a court and politics heavy game soon, and it's been pointed out to me that at higher levels the Diplomacy skill doesn't work too well - or to be more accurate, it works too well.

Before I reinvent the wheel, as anyone tried rewriting the Diplomacy skill rules to clean things up?

If not, does anyone see a reason not to use a Will save instead of the kludgy level check in Diplomacy checks?

I think an opposed Diplomacy check (both roll, higher Diplomacy check wins) would work extremely well in a court situation where there's a lot of Diplomacy skill floating around.

Ideas welcome!

[Silverscale]

I think your idea for opposed Diplomacy checks would probably be the best/easiest way to handle situations where several people have high ranks in Diplomacy.

That actually works as a good way to curb any situation where one parties really high ranks in some skill might give them more sway then you want them to have.

[Mulletmanalive]

The Giant's take on things which is what I've adapted to my setting's core rules...

Normally, there isn't a level based check against Diplomacy, just a table which is just as broken...

Will saves are a bad idea as they're too low; they're at best equal to your level at higher end unless you multiclass like crazy

I used the target's Wisdom score plus level plus some other things, and then you need to create magic items or feats that grant massive boosts to this and leave them common-place or they'll get dwarfed by anyone who gets hold of even a mediocre magic item of skill boosting...

[Irving]

...oh, cool. And what I really like about this approach is that it ropes in Sense Motive and Bluff. You can use Sense Motive to see if a deal is risky or not before you try it, and Bluff to sweeten the deal before you propose it. This works well. And we can still use Diplomacy vs. Diplomacy for counteroffers. I'm stealing it. Thanks!