Help Me Make My Frenzied Berserker?

[Man With Dog]

Basically,

I guess ultimately he is a frenzied berserker. Lvl 13.
But, how i get there (if i even go there in the end) Is my choice now.

I have a good sword (not great) with Berserker and Flaming enchant.
+4 Full Plate of Calling & +3 Large Steel Shield

Other than that, my items are negligible but i have a ridiculous amount of gold and would like some help building him. I need some kind of charm or a big wisdom plus to help my will save (to help against calm emotions)

Ideally, i want to do damage, damage, damage.


I have some idea's already that involve either 'Eye of Gruumsh' prestige class and Frenzied Berserker or a couple of levels of 'Tribal Protector'

Stat Wise: Str: 22. Dex: 16. Con: 16. Int: 9. Wis: 13. Cha: 6


Would love some help
No ToB or MoI - mostly the normal splat books

[NekoJoker]

Instead of the Frenzied Berserker from CW I would recomend the Berserker from Deities and Demigods I feel it is superior.

Eye of Gruumsh is not really that hot, I would recommend War Hulk from Miniatures handbook if you are really interested in going full out on doing dmg, tis brute gets like a +2 on str every level (I THink)) and gains the ability to sweep the battlefield with a powerful move... you do not gain BAB, but you compensate that by having a huge Str Mod.

Ultimately, I would like you to take a look at the following link, It's the Guide to All Barbarians

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105525

Hope this is useful

[Man With Dog]

Not too aware of that class to be honest.

I did look at one i foundonline which showed.
Barbarian:
Levels: 1, 2, 5,
Fighter:
Levels: 3, 4,
Tribal Protector:
Levels: 6, 7,
Frenzied berserker:
8 onwards...

I end up with Frenzy 3/Day - Supreme Cleave - Inspire Frenzy and Deathless Frenzy to name bit a few.

Does this work for a damage build?

[nedz]

Frenzied berserker is kind of cool, but most parties will ditch you (or worse). This will normally happen after you kill half of them in an out of control moment.

Just how good is that will save ?

It sounds fun though.

There are some PrCs which allow you to re-roll a failed Will save on the following round, which would be very boring.

Ed: sp

[Man With Dog]

Frenzied berserker is kind of cool, but most parties will ditch you (or worse). This will normally happen after you kill half of them in an out of control moment.

Just how good is that will save ?

It sounds fun though.

There are some PrCs which allow you to re-roll a failed Will save on the following round, which would be very boring.

Ed: sp

We have gone 13 levels together, then they got rested for a few years (rl months) now they are being picked up and i get to completely rebuild him

[Man With Dog]

Anyone willing to throw an idea my way tonight?

Just looking for some elder guidance really
(and yes, i read the previous link posted, ty for that)

[MeeposFire]

Instead of the Frenzied Berserker from CW I would recomend the Berserker from Deities and Demigods I feel it is superior.

Eye of Gruumsh is not really that hot, I would recommend War Hulk from Miniatures handbook if you are really interested in going full out on doing dmg, tis brute gets like a +2 on str every level (I THink)) and gains the ability to sweep the battlefield with a powerful move... you do not gain BAB, but you compensate that by having a huge Str Mod.

Ultimately, I would like you to take a look at the following link, It's the Guide to All Barbarians

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105525

Hope this is useful

The biggest advantage frenzied berserker gets is supreme power attack which feeds off of BAB. I think taking a class that does not improve your BAB would be a mistake considering stuff like leap attack, pounce, supreme power attack makes for the most powerful stuff.

[Chilingsworth]

Two things:

1. I find it hard to believe that many DM's would allow war hulk as a PrC for a PC.

2. If you can get war hulk, it would be more worthwhile into epic levels, since after level 20 your BAB stops advancing as such, and you get a universal "epic" bonus to attacks, instead.

EDIT* The above second point applies to the 20th HD, not ECL.

[Vangor]

Desert Orc (UA - Receives Endurance as a free feat for Steadfast Determination and qualifies for Headlong Rush and potential Eye of Gruumsh)

Spirit-Lion Totem Barbarian1 (Destructive Rage)
Fighter1 (Power Attack[F])
Fighter2 (Cleave[F], Intimidating Rage)
Barbarian2
Fighter3
Fighter4 (Headlong Rush[F], Steadfast Determination)
Frenzied Berserker1
Frenzied Berserker2
Frenzied Berserker3 (Leap Attack)
Frenzied Berserker4
Frenzied Berserker5
- (Extra Rage)
-

Question is are flaws/taint allowed? Notice two levels are missing, and if you can convince the DM about how changing the Eye of Gruumsh requirement to be any sufficiently large, exotic axe you would want to take Exotic and Weapon Focus Heavy Pole-Axe from CWar and two Eye of Gruumsh levels depending on likelihood to continue and level this character, otherwise maintain Frenzied Berserker.

Also recommend, or rather more heavily recommend is the Bear Warrior. Easier requirements, no real danger, and more amusing in my mind.

Mountain Orc

Spirit-Lion Totem Barbarian1 (Aerenei Focus Concentration)
Fighter1 (Power Attack[F])
Fighter2 (Cleave[F], Headlong Rush)
Fighter3
Fighter4 (Imp Bullrush[F])
Warblade1 (Leap Attack)
Warblade2
Bear Warrior1
Bear Warrior2 (Shock Trooper)
Bear Warrior3
Bear Warrior4
Bear Warrior5 (Multigrab, check first)
Warshaper1

[mootoall]

No. Frenzied Berserker is a BAD idea. Frankly, killing your entire party isn't so much a possibility (barring them constantly being prepared with a Calm Emotions and Grease spell) as a probability. I'd agree with checking out Eldariel's "Guide to being Bane" if you want to be a strong damage dealer, but FB is just ... not a good idea.

[Man With Dog]

No. Frenzied Berserker is a BAD idea. Frankly, killing your entire party isn't so much a possibility (barring them constantly being prepared with a Calm Emotions and Grease spell) as a probability. I'd agree with checking out Eldariel's "Guide to being Bane" if you want to be a strong damage dealer, but FB is just ... not a good idea.

Weve done the past 12 - 13 levels together and i nearly totalled the Cleric who is more ClericZilla as i thought Full Power Attack would miss his crazy AC - natural 20's though.

I will definitely look at all the recommendations put down so far - writing them down as we speak so i can try and check out some stuff at work if i get a moment

Thanks everyone so far

[Man With Dog]

Desert Orc (UA - Receives Endurance as a free feat for Steadfast Determination and qualifies for Headlong Rush and potential Eye of Gruumsh)

Spirit-Lion Totem Barbarian1 (Destructive Rage)
Fighter1 (Power Attack[F])
Fighter2 (Cleave[F], Intimidating Rage)
Barbarian2
Fighter3
Fighter4 (Headlong Rush[F], Steadfast Determination)
Frenzied Berserker1
Frenzied Berserker2
Frenzied Berserker3 (Leap Attack)
Frenzied Berserker4
Frenzied Berserker5
- (Extra Rage)
-

Question is are flaws/taint allowed? Notice two levels are missing, and if you can convince the DM about how changing the Eye of Gruumsh requirement to be any sufficiently large, exotic axe you would want to take Exotic and Weapon Focus Heavy Pole-Axe from CWar and two Eye of Gruumsh levels depending on likelihood to continue and level this character, otherwise maintain Frenzied Berserker.

Also recommend, or rather more heavily recommend is the Bear Warrior. Easier requirements, no real danger, and more amusing in my mind.

Mountain Orc

Spirit-Lion Totem Barbarian1 (Aerenei Focus Concentration)
Fighter1 (Power Attack[F])
Fighter2 (Cleave[F], Headlong Rush)
Fighter3
Fighter4 (Imp Bullrush[F])
Warblade1 (Leap Attack)
Warblade2
Bear Warrior1
Bear Warrior2 (Shock Trooper)
Bear Warrior3
Bear Warrior4
Bear Warrior5 (Multigrab, check first)
Warshaper1

Taints and flaws are not allowed - and as long as i can get him past Calm Emotions from enemy clerics he could progress to further levels - but i wouldnt say definitely

[MeeposFire]

Calm emotions is not a problem for you, it is normally a solution. Frenzy bonuses are such a small part of your effectiveness. Most of it comes from supreme power attack. That is why people go frenzy berserker, the frenzy itself is just the twinkie, tasty but eventually deadly (to your friends though not as much you).

[Levithix]

Unless of course they are prepared to deal with you being a frenzied berserker. If they are, it can be great fun. Just have some weakness they can exploit. One group my friend DMed for (I wasn't in it, but he told me all about it) had a frenzied berserker that was quite loved. Everyone in the party had a method of avoiding his wrath until it ran out. (running up trees, flying, going invisible, similar things)

Sure, you can be a liability and can only do one thing really well, but hey, being able to take on a balor in single combat as your friends all run to the goal can be loads of fun!

Optimization wise, they don't need much, just some combination of Fighter and Barbarian levels should do just fine. I'm assuming your race is set, otherwise you can have some fun with racial HD that have full BaB.

[MeeposFire]

Well it is fun until he catches you once. That is all it will take to kill a party member (or more). Playing with fire is a good analogy. Lots of fun and if you are careful you won't likely cause a problem, but the danger is there and it is just waiting for you to screw up and then YOU DIE.

[Dralnu]

Personally, I like the "friendly berserker" route. Find a way to get a high enough Will save to always beat it except for a nat 1. Burning two feats to pick up iron will + cumbrous will should do it. When I made one, I had good enough rolls to support a good CHA stat and took 3 levels in paladin of freedom for the CHA to Will ability. It made for some interesting RP. You can do the same thing with Hexblade / Crusader / Blackguard. Actually, if you can be evil, the Hexblade + Blackguard combo leaves you with an insane Will save, you won't even need to waste any feats. High CHA also is a great idea if you're using the feat Imperious Command.

An alternative is to take that PrC that makes you a guardian of a red wizard. I forgot the name of the class, but you automatically fail Will saves against your master, like against a calm emotions spell. The problem is someone has to be playing a red wizard in your group.

As others said, playing a frenzied berserker without a way to not kill your party can be a problem.

[Vangor]

Taints and flaws are not allowed - and as long as i can get him past Calm Emotions from enemy clerics he could progress to further levels - but i wouldnt say definitely

Well, if you believe you will get three additional levels, then the obvious choice is to get FB7 and continue on to FB10 for those next three levels.

Alternate path:

Mountain Orc

Warblade1 (Dest Rage)
SLT Barb1
Fight1 (PA, Int Rage)
Fight2 (Cleave)
Warblade2
Warblade3 (H Rush)

Continue on with FB, assuring to pump Concentration as you progress. You'll be using Moment of Perfect Mind to avoid the sudden party death syndrome caused by traps or other unseen assailants. If you do not believe you will progress in levels, consider FB5 and then continuing Warblade to 5 for further maneuvers and stances since you'll have a much higher initiator level (Wb lvl+4, meaning Init 8 and 9), but be mindful of maneuver requirements. Otherwise, FB10 is obvious since in three levels you'll happen upon Supreme PA.

Leap Attack is still a must. Extra Rage is almost still a guarantee, but if you might gain a couple levels you can consider instead Imp Bullrush and getting Shock Trooper at 15.

[thubby]

just get ironheart cheese. so simple, and will save your party a lot of trouble.

[Awnetu]

Steadfast Determination, Con to Will Saves, and you no longer fail on 1s.

Hand the party a couple bags of marbles and you will never be able to kill them at all while in a frenzy.


While you are going on with the Frenzied Berserker route, I would recommend looking into Hexblade for a quick will save boost with no loss of BAB, you may find a couple of abilities in the class worth using and the ability to get so angry that your swearing at a target actually penalizes them is awesome in my opinion.

That and the second level is Cha(not always the best, but good 2nd or 3rd stat for barbarian I feel) to saves, and third level is Mettle. Works well in my opinion.

[thubby]

Steadfast Determination, Con to Will Saves, and you no longer fail on 1s.

Hand the party a couple bags of marbles and you will never be able to kill them at all while in a frenzy.

get locked gauntlets too. throwing melee weapons is only a -4 and they still hit like trucks.

[Vangor]

just get ironheart cheese. so simple, and will save your party a lot of trouble.

To note, Iron Heart Surge does not function against Frenzy. Frenzy has open wording about how the berserker "must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability," and initiating a non-attack maneuver in order to stop Frenzy would not qualify. Using Iron Heart Surge is possible while in Frenzy, but not against Frenzy itself without ignoring a major aspect of the effect, the aspect which this attempts to prepare against.

[MeeposFire]

Actually you cannot use frenzy since it is a standard action and thus prevents you from attacking. If you could use it in the same round as an attack then you could attack and use iron heart surge. So oddly a factotum frenzied berserker could save enough inspiration points and use them to give themselves an extra standard action after they attack to use iron heart surge to remove the frenzy. Most classes lack the ability to use a standard action in the same round as an attack so iron heart surge is a no-go.

As long as you can attack in a round then you can attempt to surge it if you can get an extra standard action (belt of battle works once).

[Vangor]

Actually you cannot use frenzy since it is a standard action and thus prevents you from attacking.

This makes no sense within the description. You need to attack to the best of your ability, but no requirement is made you must always make an attack. What actions you can make are limited, but Iron Heart Surge is still permitted during Frenzy provided the intent is to help you attack to the best of your ability, say by removing an effect hindering your movement. Removing Frenzy, though, would be a debuffing yourself, which is why IHS will not help.

[MeeposFire]

Actually the "fight to the best of your ability" part is in reference to perceived enemies not friends. Those are the words used right before the sentences before talking about attacking non perceived enemies. For friends (since you hope that the berserker loves you:) ) it just says "she must then attack the nearest creature...and fight that opponent". So as my pretend berserker that can attack and still use iron heart surge in the same round (mostly not possible) I could iron heart surge frenzy away by using surge after I kill my last perceived enemy, further since surge buffs my attack roll you should see it as boosting your attacks and thus help you fight to the best of your ability as long as you have attacked in that same round.

This is not a trick most berserkers could use. Even a belt of battle only works 1/day which just is not enough to rely upon. About the only way to do it every encounter all day would be factotum and I do not think it is possible to go that route and get all you need.

[Urpriest]

There's some argument that Righteous Wrath (Book of Exalted Deeds) allows you to restrain yourself while in a Frenzy. The more RAWtard argument is that you can restrain yourself so long as you are also in a rage. I'd consider asking your DM about it anyway.

[Amphetryon]

Look at Steadfast Determination and/or Cumbrous Will as methods of boosting your WILL save; the party will thank you.

Because going Frenzied Berserker means the party DOES have to deal with scenarios where you can't help but try to attack them, it's often considered best for party unity if you're the one that buys the Wand of Grease or Calm Emotions that the party's caster(s) have to use to keep you from examining their spleens up close and personal.

[thubby]

can intelligent items learn calm emotions? cuz that would be an awesome solution to the problem.

[nedz]

As a DM, with a PC like this, you kill half he party by:

Throwing a weak encounter at the party which looks stronger than it is. The encounter needs to appear to be strong enough to goad the player into entering Frenzy. The Frenzied oaf then cleaves through the mooks before rapidly dropping several PCs. Horde type encounters are liable to do this.

Been there, seen it, done it: rarely fails

[Vangor]

Actually the "fight to the best of your ability" part is in reference to perceived enemies not friends.

Exactly, "perceived as foes". Why would the designers need to tell you to attack actual enemies to the best of your ability? This "perceived as foes" mention is prefacing for the remainder of the paragraph which discusses lacking enemies. "Perceived" is not used again, but "potential foes" is with regards to attacking the nearest creature when lacking actual enemies.

further since surge buffs my attack roll you should see it as boosting your attacks

Which would be a reason why I indicated "Iron Heart Surge is still permitted during Frenzy". What you cannot do is purge Frenzy because this would be a debuff, especially within the eyes of the FB.

Not even sure why you think, using your assumptions, if the FB makes an attack this would somehow nullify the need to use an additional standard action for attacking purposes purely. The rules do not follow this, but your own interpretation does not follow itself.

[Man With Dog]

So was there anymore build idea's as opposed to jst how bad FB can be to the party? If i ever did go for the party, the Cleric can take a few hits if need be, he also has calm emotions (although were looknig at a way to stop this working on me)
And no ToB or MoI still.

Ideally, he still needs to be a Frenzied Berserker at the end because i am rebuilding a character as opposed to making a new one.
I just have ridiculous gold after the last campaign ended and i kinda lost my way with all the power attack options i had.

Also, gear options are still welcome - all i am toying with at the moment is a Str increasing object, a con increasing object and possibly increasing the uberness of my sword - maybe armour but not so much bothered about that.