4e Monster building critique

[Squark]

Ok, so in my campaign's first adventure, the PC's will be spending a lot of time on a boat. So, naturally, said boat must have at least one encounter with PIRATES! Does anyone have any critiques of the Sahuagin boarder I designed?

Sahuagin Boarder Level 3 Skirmisher
Medium natural humanoid (aquatic) XP 150
Initiative +4 Senses +3; low-light vision
HP 50; Bloodied 25
AC 17; Fort 15; Ref 16; Will 15
Speed 6, swim 6
Trident (standard; at-will)*Weapon
+8 vs. AC; 1d10+3 ;see also blood frenzy
Harpoon (standard; at-will)*Weapon
Range 5/10; +8 vs. AC; 1d8+3. Harpoons can be thrown normally underwater
Pursue the Weak (standard; Recharge 56)*Weapon
The Sahuagin Boarder makes a basic attack than shifts 3 squares, or vice versa.
Blood Frenzy
A sahuagin gainsa a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage against bloodied enemies
Alignment Chaotic Evil Langauges Abyssal
Str 14 (+3) Dex 17 (+4) Wis 14 (+3)
Con 10 (+1) Int 8 (+0) Cha 6 (-1)
Equipment trident, 3 harpoons


Encounter Details- On approach to Stormreach, the PC's and their hired Sahuagin guides are ambushed by a rival tribe of Shuagin. While their guides are more than capable of fighting off most of the (weaker) tribe, some will still get aboard the boat, for the PC's to fight. However, since the MM 1 doesn't have low enough level Sahuagin, and I wanted a battle more focused on shipboard excitement (jumping through the rigging, balancing on the swaying boat), I pieced together the above creature. Of course, from what I've heard, the original monster design went through a lot of revising, so I don't entirely trust the DMG and MM 1 for comparison and guides. So, I thought I'd ask some of the playgrounders what their take was on this monster.

[Sipex]

Looks pretty solid to me. I can't compare numbers so how does it's HP and damage compare to that of the average skirmisher at the same level? They don't need to compare exactly, you just need to have balance (ie: if it has half the HP of the average level 3 skirmisher then it should average out twice the damage)

Average attack roll on an optimised striker at level 3 is 20-21 on a roll of 10 (10 + 1 (1/2 level) + 4 (Primary attack stat) + 2-3 (Prof) + 1 (Wep Enh) + 2 (Striker bonuses/feats)) which is good, strikers are always better at hitting.

How tactically inclined are your PCs? If they're tactical I'd remove the recharge on Pursue the Weak and just make it at-will.

[Squark]

Err... They're all newbies. I should have mentioned that, really.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Looks fine - I trust you used the Monster Builder for the numbers?

Anyhow, if you want Pirates to board a ship, be sure to give them some Brutes or Controllers with forced movement powers. Nothing helps to break up a choke point like someone who has a 4+ Recharge that can throw an enemy 3 squares

[Sipex]

Okay, then stick with the recharge then.

You'll need to force your players onto the rigging and such though, I find new players simply focus on "Get to the monster and hit it." so they'll definitely want to chase your little dudes around.

What classes are they?

[Squark]

Umm... I haven't actually been able to get them together for character building yet.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Wait... is this their first Encounter in D&D4?

If so, use mostly Minions and add in a few Skirmishers. Don't use many "Fast Move" or "Forced Movement" creatures until the Players get used to using their Characters as-is. Then start giving them things to think about

[Excession]

By my reading of the DMG2 monster building guidelines it's slightly high on HP and slightly low on damage. DMG2 says 42 HP, and 1d8+6 for normal powers, 25-50% more for recharge powers. Blood Frenzy is only useful/scary if they're likely to bloody someone. I'd look at having Pursue the Weak do more damage that a normal basic attack, and maybe have an effect like push or knock prone.

[Oracle_Hunter]

By my reading of the DMG2 monster building guidelines it's slightly high on HP and slightly low on damage. DMG2 says 42 HP, and 1d8+6 for normal powers, 25-50% more for recharge powers. Blood Frenzy is only useful/scary if they're likely to bloody someone. I'd look at having Pursue the Weak do more damage that a normal basic attack, and maybe have an effect like push or knock prone.

Nah, for n00bs the concept of someone being able to Shift wherever they damn well please and make an attack is going to be terrifying enough.

Personally, I try to limit those "shift and attack" powers because they just make Defenders feel useless. Better to have a few of those Skirmishers mixed in with Minions or Brutes - people the Defender can lock down.

[Sipex]

Agreed, I'd leave the pirate attack for later, see if there's something else you can use.

What level will the PCs start at? I'd recommend a boat of various humanoid monsters close to their level (ie: Human Thieves are level 2, they're nice)

[Squark]

Actually, this would be the second encounter. And I think I will throw in a few soldiers/brutes into the mix. In their defense, one of the players does have some experience with 3.5, and another has a fairly solid head on his shoulders in regards to tactics. The reason I wanted to use Sahuagin is because they are appropriate for the adventure... of course, I'm the only one with the ECS and EPG, so they don't have to know that. The PC's are level 1, but I plan to use a few sailers as cannon fodder assistance, and if nesacary, the NPC's accompanying the party can help.


The first encounter was 6 goblin Cutters, 2 Human bandits, and a Goblin Blackblade (6 minions, 2 skirmishers, and a lurker)- Came out to a level 1 encounter.


Am I messing things up horribly? It's been ages since I DMed, much less made my own adventure.

[Sipex]

How many people do you have? Are they optimisers at all? Does the party get to start with magic items?

Your first encounter is fine it'll be a bit tough if they don't add in a leader class but I see them doing well.

For the second encounter though, well, at low levels your party is very hard up on fighting monsters higher than their level because they're very limited in their options, have no magic items and don't have any 1/2 level bonuses yet. I'd lower the Sahaugin to level 1 and maybe mix in a few level 1 or 2 brutes/soldiers.

Your party MIGHT run over it, who knows? But you need to get a feel for what they can take first. Also, if you want more challenge remember that 4e players get healing surges so maybe you space out a few level 1 encounters throughout the length of one day? Your party will be less overwhelmed but still feel the pinch as their healing surges run out.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Actually, this would be the second encounter. And I think I will throw in a few soldiers/brutes into the mix.

Use Minions & Brutes instead. Soliders tend be somewhat stronger than their Level suggests.

EDIT: Don't worry too much about screwing things up if you're following the guidelines in the DMG. When I'm getting n00bs to learn D&D4 I always start with lots of Minions and a few Brutes for damage - there's more room for error on the DM's side.

Once you feel confident in your Encounter Building you can start amping things up. A handy hierarchy of threat:

Spoiler

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MOST THREATENING

(1) Solos (with multiple turns per round / status mitigation)
(2) Solos (with minions)
(3) Elite Soldiers
(4) Solos (without minions)
(5) Elite Lurkers/Controllers/Artillery
(6) Elite Skirmishers
(7) Soldiers
(8) Elite Brutes
(9) Lurkers/Controllers/Artillery
(10) Skirmishers
(11) Brutes
(12) Ranged Minions
(13) Exploding Minions
(14) Melee Minions

LEAST THREATENING

[Mando Knight]

Use Minions & Brutes instead. Soliders tend be somewhat stronger than their Level suggests.

This. Minions and Brutes are the easiest to deal with and learn the game on. Then add in Artillery and Skirmishers to ease the players into dealing with opponents that attempt to outmaneuver them or gun them down from range, and finally Soldiers, Controllers, and Lurkers for dealing with tricky or tough enemies with definite tactical abilities beyond "move around and hit hard."

Soldiers are tough to learn on because they are the monsters' Defenders: they resist hits the best (having almost as much HP as Brutes, but far better defenses), and often carry lockdown abilities with them, preventing the players from attacking the Soldier's allies while they wear down their HP.

Controllers can be difficult if there's good support, as they shut down the player offenses or defenses long enough for the others to pounce in and shred, much like a Soldier but at range... rather than focusing the players' attention on it, it just tries to make life miserable for them.

Lurkers are pesky. They're like Skirmishers, but rather than moving around to get combat advantage and avoid attacks, they hide. And they're good at it.

The absolute worst thing you could send at them in the first encounter, though, would be a Dragon (except possibly Whites, who as usual are fairly terrible). They're the few Solos that actually can fit the bill: unleashing multiple attacks even when Dazed, breathing out character-swamping areas of death, avoiding the Defender's roadblock by flying around him, and more depending on the dragon's color. Case in point: Blacks. They blot out all light in a significant area, then devour you while you whiff time and again. And every time you miss, they get to slap you.

[Squark]

Sahuagin Boarder, take two.

thoughts?

Sahuagin Boarder Level 3 Brute
Medium natural humanoid (aquatic) XP 150
Initiative +3 Senses +2; low-light vision
HP 54; Bloodied 27
AC 15; Fort 15; Ref 15; Will 15
Speed 6, swim 6
Trident (standard; at-will)*Weapon
+6 vs. AC; 1d8+6; see also blood frenzy
Savage Attack (standard; Encounter)
+8 vs. AC; 2d8+4, and the target is weakened until the end of the Boarder’s next turn. See also blood frenzy
Blood Frenzy
A sahuagin gainsa a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage against bloodied enemies
Alignment Chaotic Evil Langauges Abyssal
Str 17 (+4) Dex 14 (+3) Wis 12 (+2)
Con 14 (+3) Int 8 (+0) Cha 6 (-1)
Equipment trident

[Oracle_Hunter]

So... you're not planning on just using one kind of Monster for this Encounter, right?

It might be more helpful to see the groups you plan to use. Melee Minions + Brutes is fine for a simple Encounter, but it would be more exciting to have some Artillery or Skirmishers thrown into the mix.

[Squark]

^ oooohhh... Hmm... Actually, I wasn't at this point. But now that you mention it, adding multiple types would be a good idea

The party is beginning to come together- We now have a Dwarven Cleric, a Deva Wizard, an Elf Ranger, and a druid- he hasn't picked his race, along with one other possible player.

Would an encounter with 2 of the skirmishers and 2 of the brutes work out (a 2 skirmisher to 3 brutes if the fifth guy does roll up a character)?

EDIT: Aha! I dug up an old map I made for an abortive Savage Tide pbp. Does anyone have any reccomendations on placement (ignore the thugs and PC's)

WARNING- HUGE MAP

Spoiler

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[TheEmerged]

Wait... is this their first Encounter in D&D4?

If so, use mostly Minions and add in a few Skirmishers. Don't use many "Fast Move" or "Forced Movement" creatures until the Players get used to using their Characters as-is. Then start giving them things to think about

Agreed on the bolded part. One of the roughest fights I've seen in the group I DM was what I thought was a simple 5-on-5 against an equal-leveled group of monsters with one of those "shift & attack or attack & shift" powers. That can get a lot hairier than it looks (pun intended).

The other thing to watch (in a "more dangerous than they may look" way) are ranged minions.