Suggestions For Rival Party

[Vknight]

For my Evil Campaign that other Playgrounders have helped me with. But once more a ask for what ideas for the Rival Party.
As this is a evil campaign these guys will be the good guys & I want them to be opposites to the Party.
This rival party will be from a group like Azure City, Lawful Good lots of Pally's & what not.

The Party (Every one is level 6)

Rakasha, Sorcerer
Yuan-Ti, Druid
Dwarf, Cleric
Half-Orc, 2Fighter/4Barbarian
Drow, 2Ranger/4Rouge
Human, Soulknife

Ideas would be appreciated & thanks to anyone that even bothered to look at this.

[werik]

I don't know how Linear Guild/exact evil good opposite that you want to go with this, but it could be fun. I might suggest a Goliath as an opposite for the half-orc. Possibly make it a ranger with orcs as one of its favored enemies. A dragornborn of Bahamut cleric might be a fun opposite for the Yuan-Ti Druid. I think a Paladin would be a good match for the cleric. You could match the Dwarf with another Dwarf or possibly an elf if you want to play of that classic antagonism. The fact that there is also a Drow would almost force an Elf on Elf confrontation, but an Illumian might be a good replacement for that match up as they are also rather meticulous and cerebral like high elves. A scout might be a good counter class to the ranger/rogue combination. If you outfit it with some afflictions/ravages from the Book of Exalted Deeds that would also make this opposite a dangerous foe. I'm not terribly familiar with the Soulknife, but another augmented melee fighter would be a good match up. If you're using psionics I might suggest a psychic warrior and possibly a half-elf as the opposing race. The Rakshasa seems the most difficult to me to counter. A wizard would be the natural choice but it might be interesting to use a less expected caster. A Beguiler could be fun because it allows the caster a ton of spells that she can cast at will. Moreover, a lot of the spells do non-lethal damage. While this will leave the Beguiler less "dangerous" than other casters it might be more embarrassing for an evil character who is beaten down by a goody two-shoes spell caster using non-lethal damage. If I was playing an evil character at least, I wouldn't be too eager to talk about how someone took me down using completely "honorable" tactics. As for an opposed race, I'm kind of stuck. I might go with gnome since they are playfully tricky and this runs parallel to the Rakshasa's ability to transform into other creatures.

What would be really cool is to throw in a reformed evil creature as the party's leader. If the evil group has a player that is typically considered the leader, a reformed evil creature would be a great choice for their opposite. You might even have the opportunity for this character to infiltrate the evil party under the guise of aiding them in order to gather more information before you eventually spring a trap on them.

So yeah, those are just suggestions off the top of my head. Feel free to critique any or all of those choices.

[Critical]

Counters/opposites in the order you posted, which I thought of first:

Illumian, Wizard
Hellbred, Any Caster class/Master of Shrouds
Dwarf, Cleric (of Moradin)
Human, Paladin
Elf(Gray), Factotum
Elan, Psychic Warrior

[tuesdayscoming]

Ultimately, I think it probably comes down to who the evil party has pissed off the most. If, for instance, they've foiled the plans of a powerful, good aligned artificer, it could be fun to have the guy create a group of robo clones. They'd be exact copies of each of the party members, but with the single-minded drive to destroy their counterparts.

If, on the other hand (and as you've suggested) the party had incited the wrath of LG Pallytown, things would be very different. Forgive my saying so, but I feel it would probably be alot more boring than most other options as well.

The way I see it, it would really limit your choice of races to draw from. LG communities, if roleplayed correctly, should be made up of almost exclusively 'generic humanoids', with heavy emphasis on one race or another. This might not be the result of institutionalized racism, but from the realization that perceived differences in the populous only breed conflict. Because maintaining the peace is, definitively, the highest priority of a LG government, it only makes sense to limit racial diversity as much as possible.

Again, though, that's just the way that I interpret LG Pallytown in a more or less generic campaign setting. Obviously if you're running Planescape or something this might vary somewhat; but even there, bastions of law are typically made up of (or at least upheld by) a single racial body.

[Fitz10019]

Make it a swarm of halflings. There's nothing worse than being shown up by halflings.

[Cespenar]

Counters/opposites in the order you posted, which I thought of first:

Illumian, Wizard
Hellbred, Any Caster class/Master of Shrouds
Dwarf, Cleric (of Moradin)
Human, Paladin
Elf(Gray), Factotum
Elan, Psychic Warrior

I second this, except put a Warforged Artificer against the Druid.

[Frog Dragon]

I'm curious how you're handling the Yuan-Ti and the Rakshasa, since the latter gets like 7 levels of sorcerer casting for free, but has 7 HD and 7 LA so you normally couldn't be one at level 6, unless you're changing it somehow.

[*.*.*.*]

Counters/opposites in the order you posted, which I thought of first:

Illumian, Wizard
Hellbred, Any Caster class/Master of Shrouds
Dwarf, Cleric (of Moradin)
Human, Paladin
Elf(Gray), Factotum
Elan, Psychic Warrior

I third this!

[Dead_Jester]

Put a crusader instead of the paladin, and you're good.

[Vknight]

I'm curious how you're handling the Yuan-Ti and the Rakshasa, since the latter gets like 7 levels of sorcerer casting for free, but has 7 HD and 7 LA so you normally couldn't be one at level 6, unless you're changing it somehow.

Yeah he is know 6 LA. With 5HD He also only gets 4Sorcerer Levels From that. His SR has also been lowered.
The Yuan-Ti is only 2LA nothing more so I'm not worried. Though I said Yuan-Ti the player wanted to be a Naga. She being new did not know the difference between in her thoughts Upper Half Human, Lower Half Snake where what D&D Monster Manuals show is snake with human head. So she is Yuan-Ti in name only.

Illumian, Wizard
Hellbred, Any Caster class/Master of Shrouds
Dwarf, Cleric (of Moradin)
Human, Paladin
Elf(Gray), Factotum
Elan, Psychic Warrior

Thanks this actually works really well with the world I have.
The Hellbred is the Only oddity for me.
Someone Suggested an Artificer I do not believe I have the book for them.

The way I see it, it would really limit your choice of races to draw from. LG communities, if roleplayed correctly, should be made up of almost exclusively 'generic humanoids', with heavy emphasis on one race or another. This might not be the result of institutionalized racism, but from the realization that perceived differences in the populous only breed conflict. Because maintaining the peace is, definitively, the highest priority of a LG government, it only makes sense to limit racial diversity as much as possible.

As for this. The paladins are very much like this they have an Inquisition. Composed of Rangers & other trackers. Orc's & other monstrous species are not accepted even if the say there different. So the few cases of monstrous humanoids that are not killed on sight are generally conscripted to the military as part of the front line.

I might suggest a Goliath as an opposite for the half-orc. Possibly make it a ranger with orcs as one of its favored enemies.
I'm not terribly familiar with the Soulknife, but another augmented melee fighter would be a good match up. If you're using psionics I might suggest a psychic warrior and possibly a half-elf as the opposing race.

Yeah limited Psionics. As I told my players for every 10characters we go through there can be one psionic character. Thanks I like that Idea rough & tuff Goliath with a good head on his shoulders a quick wit compared to
Yes exactly he even out-write said he is that type of character. 6Int

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As for the comments about the leader it will probably fall on the Yuan-Ti's player because she is the most reasonable. After her will be the Drow, & after her will be the Dwarven Cleric & his player.
Ironically enough this means that the most likely leader is the youngest player & the least likely is the oldest.

[kme]

How about:
Mialee: elf wizard
Vadania: half-elf druid
Jozan: human cleric
Redgar: human fighter
Lidda: halfling rogue
Gimble: gnome bard

I know they aren't paladins but it may be amusing. Don't reveal their names, let them try to guess by description .

On a more serious side I would suggest to go with a normal looking, mostly human party. Your PCs are all weird, so a normal feel would actually be opposite. You can also portray them as reasonable people with good intentions, so the players may actually feel the sting of their evil. Don't go with zealous fanatics, also a party of weird good monsters would just feel right to be slaughtered.

[Psychonix]

How about:
Mialee: elf wizard
Vadania: half-elf druid
Jozan: human cleric
Redgar: human fighter
Lidda: halfling rogue
Gimble: gnome bard

I know they aren't paladins but it may be amusing. Don't reveal their names, let them try to guess by description .

That is a brilliant suggestion...

[Cespenar]

I suggested a Warforged Artificer to counter the Druid's nature theme with an industrial theme, but really, any Warforged would do. Warforged can be found in Player's Guide to Eberron.

Optionally, you can counter the Druid with a good Necromancer or a Pyrokineticist or something like that.

[Vknight]

I like that good & average idea so I am thinking of combining the 2ideas.

Human, Cleric
Elf, Bard
Dwarf, Paladin
Elan, Psychic Warrior
Halfling, Rouge
Illumian, Wizard or Beguiler

Ok the Artificer what book is that because I don't have much Eberron stuff.

As for the names I'm going to go with a number or elemental theme.

[Cespenar]

Artificer is from Eberron Campaign Setting as well, if I remember correctly.

[Dead_Jester]

It is, and warforged are also in RoE if I remember correctly

[Vknight]

I do in fact have those 2books making half of my books about Eberron.
That total makes it one-third of the size of the amount of Forgotten Realms books I own.

Now comes the hard part building them & deciding which fits the world & then testing them.

[DragonBaneDM]

Rakasha, Sorcerer
A Wizard has always been a good rival for a Sorcerer. I'd argue a Deva, but this isn't 4e.

Yuan-Ti, Druid
Hm... Evil Druid eh? Well, how about Wilderness vs Civilization? A cleric would work well, or maybe an Indiana Jones type Rogue who hates snakes!

Dwarf, Cleric
An Elf Archer. Ick. Can't believe I just suggested that. But it IS the opposite.

Half-Orc, 2Fighter/4Barbarian
This would be the guy up against the Paladin. Human. Convinced that the Half-Orc is a lesser "half-breed".

Drow, 2Ranger/4Rouge
A Drizzt type "Redeemed Drow". Should tick him off quite well.

Human, Soulknife
Hm... The Good Party lacks anyone innocent, someone for the evil party to corrupt. Let's say a Halfling Rogue who's very young and watches his parents die by the soulknife's hands? Or maybe an apprentice gone astray!

[Vknight]

Rakasha, Sorcerer
A Wizard has always been a good rival for a Sorcerer. I'd argue a Deva, but this isn't 4e.

Yuan-Ti, Druid
Hm... Evil Druid eh? Well, how about Wilderness vs Civilization? A cleric would work well, or maybe an Indiana Jones type Rogue who hates snakes!

Dwarf, Cleric
An Elf Archer. Ick. Can't believe I just suggested that. But it IS the opposite.

Half-Orc, 2Fighter/4Barbarian
This would be the guy up against the Paladin. Human. Convinced that the Half-Orc is a lesser "half-breed".

Drow, 2Ranger/4Rouge
A Drizzt type "Redeemed Drow". Should tick him off quite well.

Human, Soulknife
Hm... The Good Party lacks anyone innocent, someone for the evil party to corrupt. Let's say a Halfling Rogue who's very young and watches his parents die by the soulknife's hands? Or maybe an apprentice gone astray!

I see what your going for.
But I was thinking

Rakasha, Sorcerer: Illumian, Beguiler
I think as was stated earlier being beaten by honorable tactics & non-damaging spell will hurt more. Especially with the amount of pride this character & player have.

Yuan Ti, Druid: Elf, Bard or Warforged, Artificer
The Yuan-Ti is all about nature is superior & wants to overrun parts of civilization with it. The bard idea is to mock her often showing her up using his Suave charm & tech to beat her primal assaults. The Warforged is the Civ verse Nature theme tinkering & upgrading his body constantly.

Dwarf, Cleric: Human, Cleric
The idea of a fallen cleric worshiping a new god coming face to face with an old ally is what I'm thinking the Cleric & Paladin may switch races.

Half-Orc, 2Fighter/4Barbarian: Dwarf, Paladin
As you said a lesser creature which will be very true considering the intellectual difference between the two.

Drow, 2Ranger/4Rouge: Halfling, Rouge
The Drow idea wouldn't work considering the community & a small creature darting around stabbing into people's ankles just seems perfect against the serious nature of this player.

Human Soulknife: Elan, Psychic Warrior
Psionic versus Psionic. Also I want to show psionic exist but are rare so a member of there party must be psionic. I like that killed before his parents idea becoming an Elan to further his goals & to track down the killer.

[Runestar]

If you are willing to spend some time statting them up, the savage progressions of the astral deva, ghaele, trumpet archon and gold dragon, each taking about 4-5 crs worth.

[Vknight]

Interesting Ideas